Petrol "stretching"

Esel · 20-10-2014 4:14am

deaglan169 wrote: »

not sure if this was posted before but came across it on facebook page, its list of stations which have a license to sell fuel, but it seems to show those stations which are owner operated and not franchised, for example the maxol in monaghan states licensee name: Maxol, trading name: Maxol, whereas others state licensee name: joe blogs, trading name: Maxol, i only have link from facebook so might not work for everyone file is on revenue.ie somewhere

http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revenue.ie%2Fen%2Ftax%2Fexcise%2Fmineral-oil-traders%2Flicensed-auto-fuel-traders.pdf&h=kAQE8wu2tAQGm61GidCeUvP2WcYU12NOBhzYZYB_eJEWw0A&enc=AZOfbO2jUldXYrNptd7fFts9cmPcllxVESBogfjemrdXjQ-9SCAELogfVAxwzVUT1f0F5C7SeOEb1ZzwObsTG8uEWdG7QETaCQM1D-TUTDaOllwrKHxndqLaKd2pETjXZcNPQbbKmlDsB-hx8Zkr51Qq&s=1

Link appears not to work.

This one does, hopefully.

However, it only lists licenses, and presumably almost all stations have a licence. So, not much use to the punter trying to avoid dodgy petrol.

Probably best to use only large, long-established stations, even if a 'bit' more expensive than that one down/out the road.

ironclaw · 20-10-2014 7:22am

deaglan169 wrote: »

not sure if this was posted before but came across it on facebook page, its list of stations which have a license to sell fuel, but it seems to show those stations which are owner operated and not franchised, for example the maxol in monaghan states licensee name: Maxol, trading name: Maxol, whereas others state licensee name: joe blogs, trading name: Maxol, i only have link from facebook so might not work for everyone file is on revenue.ie somewhere

http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revenue.ie%2Fen%2Ftax%2Fexcise%2Fmineral-oil-traders%2Flicensed-auto-fuel-traders.pdf&h=kAQE8wu2tAQGm61GidCeUvP2WcYU12NOBhzYZYB_eJEWw0A&enc=AZOfbO2jUldXYrNptd7fFts9cmPcllxVESBogfjemrdXjQ-9SCAELogfVAxwzVUT1f0F5C7SeOEb1ZzwObsTG8uEWdG7QETaCQM1D-TUTDaOllwrKHxndqLaKd2pETjXZcNPQbbKmlDsB-hx8Zkr51Qq&s=1

This is just a typical panic response from those that have absolutely no idea how the scam(s) work in the fuel industry. License, unlicensed, established or over night, it doesn't really make a difference if the owner isn't in on it. Granted, they are liable, but doesn't mean they knowingly were involved (Ignorance isn't a defense, point taken) A cocky driver wants to make a few quid on the side? What difference does it make what license is in the office or who's name is above the door?

This type of social media does more harm than good as its ill-informed and uneducated people pointing fingers at what could be legitimate, well to do businesses (And no, I have no involvement in the industry)

antomack · 28-10-2014 10:54am

Just told on Friday that my engine needs replacing due to contaminated petrol. Petrol was bought from either a Texaco or an AppleGreen as they are the only ones I've bought from over past the past year and more so branded is not necessarily safe.

jimgoose · 28-10-2014 11:04am

antomack wrote: »

Just told on Friday that my engine needs replacing due to contaminated petrol. Petrol was bought from either a Texaco or an AppleGreen as they are the only ones I've bought from over past the past year and more so branded is not necessarily safe.

What part of the country is this?

antomack · 28-10-2014 11:41am

Roscommon/Westmeath area, told by garage that I was the 20th car effected over past few months.

mayo.mick · 28-10-2014 4:16pm

At the meeting last night (of over 300) in the gateway hotel in Swinford, the garda said there were 167 statements taken from people in the Swinford area, whose cars were destroyed by petrol stretching. Yet the revenue representative said there were only 15 cases reported in Mayo!

One petrol station operator caught up in this has said that the delivery he got which might have been the cause, was a "split load". The same tanker delivered to Tulsk and Foxford also, those stations are also affected.

mikeecho · 28-10-2014 4:21pm

If the kerosene mix was accidental, then surely the fuel should have a pink colour due the red dye in kerosene.

If it didn't have pinkish color, then the kerosene was either washed, or it came from the north
(there is no coloured marker in northern kero)

Anyway, I thought a new chemical/radioactive marker that is unwashable was in all gas oil and kero now, surely that would show up in any tests on petrol.

Chimaera · 28-10-2014 4:29pm

Apparently the new fuel markers are not being rolled out until January next year. I wonder how expensive the monitoring equipment for the new markers might be - could it be viable for retailers to buy it and test each delivery of fuel that arrives before it's unloaded?

Jesus. · 28-10-2014 4:31pm

antomack wrote: »

Just told on Friday that my engine needs replacing due to contaminated petrol.

Very sorry to hear that fella

mikeecho · 28-10-2014 4:34pm

Chimaera wrote: »

Apparently the new fuel markers are not being rolled out until January next year. I wonder how expensive the monitoring equipment for the new markers might be - could it be viable for retailers to buy it and test each delivery of fuel that arrives before it's unloaded?

I heard that too, that new markers were yet to be rolled out, but at the same time, reading that the provos had moved their operations to petrol as they were no longer able to wash the diesel.

Either which way, here's hoping that 2015 brings us cleaner fuel.

mikeecho · 28-10-2014 4:38pm

antomack wrote: »

Just told on Friday that my engine needs replacing due to contaminated petrol. Petrol was bought from either a Texaco or an AppleGreen as they are the only ones I've bought from over past the past year and more so branded is not necessarily safe.

What make/model/engine size

Just curious

antomack · 28-10-2014 5:22pm

2006 Toyota Corolla, 1.4L. Have since new and never an issue until this.

Cerco · 28-10-2014 5:42pm

How useful will the fuel markers be to the average motorist?
I would never notice the colour of petrol unless I was pouring into a lawnmower. Hard to see it when filing your car.
I can see how you could check it after your car was damaged but that is little comfort.

Chimaera · 28-10-2014 5:58pm

Cerco wrote: »

How useful will the fuel markers be to the average motorist?
I would never notice the colour of petrol unless I was pouring into a lawnmower. Hard to see it when filing your car.
I can see how you could check it after your car was damaged but that is little comfort.

The new markers are extremely difficult to remove from fuel, so it'll be a lot harder to escape detection (a quick scan of isotopic separation techniques suggests the equipment needed to do this is of the order of millions of euro to do it at any kind of scale). This reduces the incentive to engage in petrol stretching or diesel laundering.

If a relatively low cost option for detectors exists, it may be possible for retailers to check deliveries as they arrive and reject anything suspicious.

Dionysius2 · 28-10-2014 6:45pm

On the road, it's good practice to buy from the bigger retailers. Also, and this is a very good tip : don't buy from filling stations where the forecourt is not overlooked. Forecourts which are not overlooked figure in murky activities on a far more frequent basis than the big open well observed filling stations. There is no plan of approach to buying that will guarantee that you are buying the correct fuel but vigilance is a big factor. Also beware places with 'Diesel For Sale' signs protruding from a hedge as you pass by. Concerned motorists could also assist one another immeasurably by being vigilant about the movement of tankers and oil lorries in the vicinity of filling stations. After all the stuff has got to be moved/ deliverd etc and that may well provide opportunities for the sharpies among us. Give any suspicions that you have to the Guards or Customs as you wish and it may assist them to harden on suspect activity.

Stheno · 28-10-2014 6:48pm

I was reading an article about this earlier which said that it appears it's primarily small engined cars which are affected.

Any idea why this would be the case?

ShadowHearth · 28-10-2014 9:40pm

Dartz wrote: »

I think Applegreens adds ethanol to theirs...

I also add about 100:1 2-stroke oil too...

I was pretty sure that all petrol station use the same barrel of petrol that supplier has. No difference between them at all.
I always fill up in one petrol station, but last time I filled up in Applegreens and I could swear that car behaves better and it gets more mpg. I wonder if thats just placebo effect...

Dartz · 28-10-2014 10:10pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I was pretty sure that all petrol station use the same barrel of petrol that supplier has. No difference between them at all.
I always fill up in one petrol station, but last time I filled up in Applegreens and I could swear that car behaves better and it gets more mpg. I wonder if thats just placebo effect...

Their diesel is ****. Everytime I filled up with Applegreen diesel it got less MPG and seemed to be down on power by a bit. Engine was never happy on it.

Their petrol OTOH.... the RX8 atleast seems to love it. It idles smoother, for a start.

Dartz · 28-10-2014 10:15pm

Chimaera wrote: »

The new markers are extremely difficult to remove from fuel, so it'll be a lot harder to escape detection (a quick scan of isotopic separation techniques suggests the equipment needed to do this is of the order of millions of euro to do it at any kind of scale). This reduces the incentive to engage in petrol stretching or diesel laundering.

If a relatively low cost option for detectors exists, it may be possible for retailers to check deliveries as they arrive and reject anything suspicious.

Cheap Geiger counter? If it glows, either it's marked, or came from Ukraine.

There're better things that can be done with isotpic seperation capable centrifuges anyway

"Hello, Minister. I have placed a single nuclear warhead in an irish city. If the tax on petrol is not reduced within the next 12 hours, I will detonate it.... bwaahahahahahahahaa... haha."

Of course, depending on where it is, they might just say Detonate the ****.

ironclaw · 29-10-2014 12:47am

ShadowHearth wrote: »

but last time I filled up in Applegreens and I could swear that car behaves better and it gets more mpg. I wonder if thats just placebo effect...

Was working a contract for a 6 month stint and had the exact same commute 5 days a week in pretty much identical traffic conditions. Decided to see for myself did it make any difference at all. Esso and Maxol, I'd top out at about 380 miles per tank. Tesco and AppleGreen, I'd be lucky to get 340/360 miles. Topaz sat right in the middle. Same car, same driver and the same amount of fuel each time.

Not overly scientific but the results, at least for myself, indicated you certainly get what you pay for.

samih · 29-10-2014 11:32am

Stheno wrote: »

I was reading an article about this earlier which said that it appears it's primarily small engined cars which are affected.

Any idea why this would be the case?

Stretched petrol has low octane rating. Small engines have to be driven hard so predetonation (pinging) at high load kills them I'd imagine.

derry · 02-11-2014 7:24am

ironclaw wrote: »

Was working a contract for a 6 month stint and had the exact same commute 5 days a week in pretty much identical traffic conditions. Decided to see for myself did it make any difference at all. Esso and Maxol, I'd top out at about 380 miles per tank. Tesco and AppleGreen, I'd be lucky to get 340/360 miles. Topaz sat right in the middle. Same car, same driver and the same amount of fuel each time.

Not overly scientific but the results, at least for myself, indicated you certainly get what you pay for.

That is very interesting experiment . Can you say how you arrived to chose when to fill the tank such as when you had done 6 journeys of ~100 miles or when the low fuel warming came on for tenty miles ???

340 on 380 is about 10% difference . It would be interesting to know the prices per liter if the cheaper fuel by 10% was 10% less mileage it would be the same price per mile .

I am not sure what the ingredients can be in cheaper fuel to reduce the MPG by as much as ~10% or typically ~5% each way .Adding in extra ethanol alcohol to the fuel could do that as each 2% of the ethanol added would probably be nearly ~3 % less MPG results . However slightly extra power from the ethanol due to it has oxygen in the molecule and its engine cleaning properties plus if it had 10% cheaper price could be interesting benefits.

Nice on e thanks I didn't know that different trade marks would effect the MPG so much .
I tend to work it out in MPG and liters /100 and then in cost per mile and per kilometer which can vary more than ~10% per tank as fuel prices swing up and down sometimes ~20% over a year
I hadn't factored in the different brands so must look to do that as well

Derry

Crumbs868 · 02-11-2014 8:51am

Applegreen get their diesel / petrol from the TOP depot in dublin. Only difference between the two of them could be a performance improving additive

old_aussie · 02-11-2014 9:08am

Dartz wrote: »

.

Petrol engines need to be run at more than a constant 1500rpm to get the chamber temperatures and pressures high enough

What petrol engines would run below 1500rpm? really

Dartz wrote: »

I also add about 100:1 2-stroke oil too...

Will foul plugs and damage catalytic converter as it's not meant to convert oil

Dartz · 02-11-2014 11:23pm

old_aussie wrote: »

What petrol engines would run below 1500rpm? really

One's being tested in the NEDC, it seems.

Will foul plugs and damage catalytic converter as it's not meant to convert oil

It burns oil by design, this one does. Might aswell burn oil that's meant to be burnt.

derry · 03-11-2014 12:59am

old_aussie wrote:

What petrol engines would run below 1500rpm? really

If you had a 16 cylinder 10 liter engine in your average car then 1500%PM is fine as you would get 4 times as many explosions per second so in effect it would equal a 10 liter 4 cylinder engine doing 1500 x 4 = 6000RPM or 5 liter 4 banger doing 12,000 RPM

RPM is relative to size of engine and amounts of explosions per second

My Fiat bravo SX with 1400 engine throttle cable broke .I was able to limp home at 1000 RPM at 30kph as it was big engine in small car and flat terrain . If I had a V8 in the car at 1000 RPM it would be like my 4 banger at 2000 RPM .

You need to phrase this question in terms of engine size the car size the engine type before looking at RPM

old_aussie wrote:

Will foul plugs and damage catalytic converter as it's not meant to convert oil

Yes and no to this . The catalytic converter is meant to burn up unburnt petrol or diesel fuels .Both Petrol and Diesel fuels will contain some amounts of heavy lubricated oil such as the lighter stuff used in two stroke engines and the heavy stuff used in the 4 stroke lubrication. Ideally the catalytic converter will never be exposed to too much oil to burn up as the heavy oil are big complex molecules which dont burn up easily and wont break apart to burn up so easy. If the catalytic converter is subjected to much oil or too much unburnt fuel from reasons like bad fuel mixtures too rich or oil leaks such as piston rings to worn out the catalytic converter will be overloaded and not burn up the oil properly . Then carbon deposits will build up and block the catalytic converters long tubes it uses to channel the exhaust and the catalytic converter will be broken
However in new car with catalytic converter that isn't blocked up with carbon and piston rings with no leaks or wear the addition of less than 1% light oil such as 2 stoke lubrication oil could work well enough for most types of catalytic converters . However I wouldn't be keen to go there if i wanted long life for my catalytic converter.On car such as pre 1980 vintage with no catalytic converter it very good idea as it will protect engine from wear in the piston regions .

The modern diesel fuel in most of the EU is now 7% bio fuel .This is due to the particle filter in diesel car s it cannot take high sulfur diesel fuel from the old style diesel fuels . To remove the sulfur the lubrication element of the diesel is removed also .To get back some lubrication requires the addition of Bio fuel . However it is pigs ear the diesel fuel lubrication has dropped inside the piston region which could get extra lubrication from the unburnt diesel fuel . The modern diesels engines lifes look to drastically reduced from this .Old 1990 era diesel engine would do 1,000,000 miles but modern diesel engines can be clapped out in as little 100,000 miles .Adding some lubrication oil to the diesel can help the wear reduction for piston but screw up the catalytic converter and more likely screw up the particle filter .if you got old 1990 era diesel engine with no particle filter then adding small amounts of 2 stroke lubrication oil might be very good idea .

Petrol engines are by the nature of the fuel dry engines getting less lubrication oil from the fuel and so wear faster than the old diesel engines .Old petrol engines with no catalytic converter is probably great idea add some 2 lubrication oil

The republic Of Ireland is suffering a period of stretched petrol fuel where extra paraffin fuel is added in the form of kerosene .This reduces the lubrication in the petrol fuel but worse it effects the octane of the fuel so that engine can get more pre detention events .The other stretched fuel seems to be methanol which when there is pre detonation events will aggravate the event with extra heat . Adding extra lubrication oil in will increase the octane and reduce pre detention but increase problems for the catalytic converter which will already be suffering from excess unburnt paraffins that leave lots of carbon deposits .You might save the engine which cost thousands but end up helping in the wrecking of the catalytic converter .So its swings and round abouts

Hope that helps

Derry

mayo.mick · 03-11-2014 12:17pm

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/petrol-stretching-revenue-arent-doing-enough-about-this-at-all-295983.html

90 cases reported to Revenue????? There were 167 cases reported to Swinford Gardai alone, and that was up to last week, more cases since then.

dr.fuzzenstein · 03-11-2014 2:17pm

mayo.mick wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/petrol-stretching-revenue-arent-doing-enough-about-this-at-all-295983.html

90 cases reported to Revenue????? There were 167 cases reported to Swinford Gardai alone, and that was up to last week, more cases since then.

Well. it's much easier to throw pensioners in prison who haven't paid their dog license, rather than going after proper, nasty, armed and violent thugs. Better let them off and go about their business. They wouldn't be beyond doing you for having traces of kerosene in the tank, it's illegal, after all...

jca · 03-11-2014 3:01pm

derry wrote: »

If you had a 16 cylinder 10 liter engine in your average car then 1500%PM is fine as you would get 4 times as many explosions per second so in effect it would equal a 10 liter 4 cylinder engine doing 1500 x 4 = 6000RPM or 5 liter 4 banger doing 12,000 RPM

RPM is relative to size of engine and amounts of explosions per second

My Fiat bravo SX with 1400 engine throttle cable broke .I was able to limp home at 1000 RPM at 30kph as it was big engine in small car and flat terrain . If I had a V8 in the car at 1000 RPM it would be like my 4 banger at 2000 RPM .

You need to phrase this question in terms of engine size the car size the engine type before looking at RPM

Yes and no to this . The catalytic converter is meant to burn up unburnt petrol or diesel fuels .Both Petrol and Diesel fuels will contain some amounts of heavy lubricated oil such as the lighter stuff used in two stroke engines and the heavy stuff used in the 4 stroke lubrication. Ideally the catalytic converter will never be exposed to too much oil to burn up as the heavy oil are big complex molecules which dont burn up easily and wont break apart to burn up so easy. If the catalytic converter is subjected to much oil or too much unburnt fuel from reasons like bad fuel mixtures too rich or oil leaks such as piston rings to worn out the catalytic converter will be overloaded and not burn up the oil properly . Then carbon deposits will build up and block the catalytic converters long tubes it uses to channel the exhaust and the catalytic converter will be broken
However in new car with catalytic converter that isn't blocked up with carbon and piston rings with no leaks or wear the addition of less than 1% light oil such as 2 stoke lubrication oil could work well enough for most types of catalytic converters . However I wouldn't be keen to go there if i wanted long life for my catalytic converter.On car such as pre 1980 vintage with no catalytic converter it very good idea as it will protect engine from wear in the piston regions .

The modern diesel fuel in most of the EU is now 7% bio fuel .This is due to the particle filter in diesel car s it cannot take high sulfur diesel fuel from the old style diesel fuels . To remove the sulfur the lubrication element of the diesel is removed also .To get back some lubrication requires the addition of Bio fuel . However it is pigs ear the diesel fuel lubrication has dropped inside the piston region which could get extra lubrication from the unburnt diesel fuel . The modern diesels engines lifes look to drastically reduced from this .Old 1990 era diesel engine would do 1,000,000 miles but modern diesel engines can be clapped out in as little 100,000 miles .Adding some lubrication oil to the diesel can help the wear reduction for piston but screw up the catalytic converter and more likely screw up the particle filter .if you got old 1990 era diesel engine with no particle filter then adding small amounts of 2 stroke lubrication oil might be very good idea .

Petrol engines are by the nature of the fuel dry engines getting less lubrication oil from the fuel and so wear faster than the old diesel engines .Old petrol engines with no catalytic converter is probably great idea add some 2 lubrication oil

The republic Of Ireland is suffering a period of stretched petrol fuel where extra paraffin fuel is added in the form of kerosene .This reduces the lubrication in the petrol fuel but worse it effects the octane of the fuel so that engine can get more pre detention events .The other stretched fuel seems to be methanol which when there is pre detonation events will aggravate the event with extra heat . Adding extra lubrication oil in will increase the octane and reduce pre detention but increase problems for the catalytic converter which will already be suffering from excess unburnt paraffins that leave lots of carbon deposits .You might save the engine which cost thousands but end up helping in the wrecking of the catalytic converter .So its swings and round abouts

Hope that helps

Derry

Have you ever seen the inside of an engine? Do you realise the stresses and temperatures involved? A dribble of two stroke won't make a damn bit of difference in preventing wear in any type of engine but will certainly wreck the emissions. Pistons are lubricated from underneath via a spray hole in the connecting rod.

Chimaera · 03-11-2014 3:03pm

derry wrote: »

Yes and no to this . The catalytic converter is meant to burn up unburnt petrol or diesel fuels.

No, it's primary function is to oxidise CO, and other exhaust products to less reactive forms, e.g. CO is oxidised to CO2 which is less harmful to people. But in modern cars, it's rather more complicated, and some catalytic converters will deal with unburned fuel too. It's common practice these days to have multiple after treatment devices to deal with different exhaust products.

derry wrote: »

Both Petrol and Diesel fuels will contain some amounts of heavy lubricated oil such as the lighter stuff used in two stroke engines and the heavy stuff used in the 4 stroke lubrication. Ideally the catalytic converter will never be exposed to too much oil to burn up as the heavy oil are big complex molecules which dont burn up easily and wont break apart to burn up so easy.

If unburned oil is reaching your cat, the engine's dead anyway. The tiny amount of oil that gets into the combustion chamber of a properly maintained car will be burned up completely.

derry wrote: »

However in new car with catalytic converter that isn't blocked up with carbon and piston rings with no leaks or wear the addition of less than 1% light oil such as 2 stoke lubrication oil could work well enough for most types of catalytic converters . However I wouldn't be keen to go there if i wanted long life for my catalytic converter.On car such as pre 1980 vintage with no catalytic converter it very good idea as it will protect engine from wear in the piston regions .

Rubbish. Oil is not good for catalytic converters, ever. Your car's lubrication system is designed to protect the pistons already, so adding oil to petrol will do nothing to enhance this, and will just cause trouble.

derry wrote: »

The modern diesel fuel in most of the EU is now 7% bio fuel .This is due to the particle filter in diesel car s it cannot take high sulfur diesel fuel from the old style diesel fuels . To remove the sulfur the lubrication element of the diesel is removed also .To get back some lubrication requires the addition of Bio fuel . However it is pigs ear the diesel fuel lubrication has dropped inside the piston region which could get extra lubrication from the unburnt diesel fuel . The modern diesels engines lifes look to drastically reduced from this .Old 1990 era diesel engine would do 1,000,000 miles but modern diesel engines can be clapped out in as little 100,000 miles .Adding some lubrication oil to the diesel can help the wear reduction for piston but screw up the catalytic converter and more likely screw up the particle filter .if you got old 1990 era diesel engine with no particle filter then adding small amounts of 2 stroke lubrication oil might be very good idea .

I've said this to you before but you seem intent on remaining deaf to the facts: sulphur was removed from diesel long before DPFs were being fitted in production. It was removed to eliminate the formation of SO2 in the exhaust, which is a significant contributor to the formation of acid rain.

The intent of the biofuel directives was to reduce reliance on fossil fuels. It was a nice side-effect that it improved lubricity too.

The fuel in a diesel engine does not contribute ANYTHING to the lubrication of the pistons. NOTHING. If you have enough diesel gathering around the piston walls to generate a lubricating effect, your engine is dead.

Modern diesel fuel's lubricity is more than adequate to satisfy the lubrication requirements of the fuel system. The caveat here being that the fuel must be produced to EN 590. Adding lubricating oil to diesel will seriously damage the injection equipment in a modern diesel engine.

An aside here is that you must use a low-ash lubricating oil in any car fitted with a DPF to prevent that ash clogging the DPF when oil gets through to the combustion chamber.

derry wrote: »

Petrol engines are by the nature of the fuel dry engines getting less lubrication oil from the fuel and so wear faster than the old diesel engines .Old petrol engines with no catalytic converter is probably great idea add some 2 lubrication oil

Petrol engine fuel systems are designed knowing that petrol is a poor lubricating agent. You do not need add anything to change the fuel's lubricity, you're only going to cause problems.

derry wrote: »

The republic Of Ireland is suffering a period of stretched petrol fuel where extra paraffin fuel is added in the form of kerosene .This reduces the lubrication in the petrol fuel but worse it effects the octane of the fuel so that engine can get more pre detention events .The other stretched fuel seems to be methanol which when there is pre detonation events will aggravate the event with extra heat . Adding extra lubrication oil in will increase the octane and reduce pre detention but increase problems for the catalytic converter which will already be suffering from excess unburnt paraffins that leave lots of carbon deposits .You might save the engine which cost thousands but end up helping in the wrecking of the catalytic converter .So its swings and round abouts

Kerosene would actually improve the lubricity of petrol but it's not desirable or necessary. You're right in saying it'd probably increase the likelihood of auto-ignition since it'd lower the octane rating (which conversely increases the cetane rating). In general, oils will decrease octane rating and increase cetane rating. Increased cetane increases the likelihood of auto-ignition in any engine.

Adding alcohols to petrol is proven for various applications. EN 228 allows ethanol to be added to fuel, so it's quite legitimate. Alcohols won't induce auto-ignition though: quite the opposite in fact. They're known octane enhancers.

derry wrote: »

Hope that helps

Derry

No, it doesn't. Not at all. Go away and study actual fuel chemistry and engine fundamentals, and come back when you're educated.

Petrol "stretching"

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