Queen Elizabeth II to visit Ireland.

Permabear · 24-06-2010 12:45pm

This post has been deleted.

aDeener · 24-06-2010 12:50pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

irony? hardly. you brought it up and drew the parallels initially now you are trying to refute them. typical, well actually no it isnt typical, its a wonder you are actually refuting....

PeterIanStaker · 24-06-2010 12:53pm

Sleepy wrote: »

It makes me so proud to be Irish when I see fellow citizens of the republic denounce it's existence...

An inferiority complex that this country's own media play a huge part in reinforcing on a near - daily basis. With the likes of the Indo/Sindo/RTE, we don't need an external enemy.

Wolfe Tone · 24-06-2010 1:30pm

The Republic of Ireland is not a country?

Interestingly it isn't.

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

I remember reading a few years ago about how a Judge threw out extradition forms which had ROI on them as that country does not exist. "The Republic of" is a description of Ireland, not a name.
Hence all the fuss over the names of the two soccer teams.

Splitting hairs ftw

Biggins · 24-06-2010 1:31pm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

How the UK chooses their head of state is their problem, it is not for us to judge. ...

Not being argumentative, just making a point. When did the UK vote for the queen to represent them ?

ManFromAtlantis · 24-06-2010 1:39pm

maybe shes coming to give us back our land that she took

Wolfe Tone · 24-06-2010 1:43pm

Personally I think if she does come it:

Should be treated as a regular head of state visit, no special treatment.
She should pay for security and whatever herself, no cost to the taxpayer.
She should make some reconciliatory comments, visit the famine memorial and lay a wreath etc something like that.
Expect her visit to be protested
No addressing her as "Your Majesty"
I would also like to hear some sort of apology for events which took place both here and in Ulster.

And she should also be made to watch Biffo eat. She will never want to return after that! He should also piss in her tea.

I would rather she stayed at home tbh. What will her visit accomplish?

eightyfish · 24-06-2010 1:48pm

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Should be treated as a regular head of state visit, no special treatment.
She should pay for security and whatever herself, no cost to the taxpayer.

But if she was treated as a regular head of state, then her security would be paid for but the Irish government, at least partially.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Expect her visit to be protested

And this argument to take place all over the media in the build-up.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I would also like to hear some sort of apology for events which took place both here and in Ulster.

Ah, come on.

I hope that this plays out like the English anthem being played in Croke Park. Lots of old-school nationalists giving out yards about the men that dies for our independence and then.... respect for all concerned at the actual event, and the whole country can be happy that we've moved on from all that.

PS: New posters, RTFT, stop re-posting stuff that's already been said.

eightyfish · 24-06-2010 1:52pm

eightyfish wrote: »

And this argument to take place all over the media in the build-up.

Just as I said that... it's on Joe Duffy now.

24-06-2010 1:52pm

aDeener wrote: »

i don't believe the commander in chief of the army who committed said atrocity has however?

and thats the problem with people apologising for the past.....
you can never apologise for cromwell or the famine. Its done. The people responsible are long dead.

hence why we shouldnt demand stupid hollow apologies, those who are stuck in a past they never lived through should get a life in the here and now

Cavehill Red · 24-06-2010 1:54pm

This thread is full of crap about moving on.
The only moving on I'm looking forward to is the British forces moving on back to their own island.
When that's complete, Betty can come to Ireland as often as she likes, her and her racist hubby.

Wolfe Tone · 24-06-2010 2:05pm

Ok, I would like to see an apology for events which she oversaw as head of state in the six counties, acts that were undertaken both by the state, and her armed forces. I think that is fair. I also think it would be nice to see her pay her respects to the victims of the famine, lay a wreath etc.

But the question remains, if she is not coming in a reconciliatory way why is she coming at all?

Winty · 24-06-2010 2:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

you can never apologise for cromwell

The problem with Cromwell is the Irish cant forget and the English cant remember

ultain · 24-06-2010 2:17pm

Could she not just visit Belfast and send a e-mail to the republic...to say hello.

hinault · 24-06-2010 2:20pm

This particular visit is generating a lot of heat.

COYW · 24-06-2010 2:21pm

Had a very interesting conversation with someone about this at lunch. This individual is totally against the visit yet, get ready for it folks, he :

- Is looking for a ticket for the corporate levels for the Dublin game on Sunday, so he can keep an eye on the England game.

- Is an avid Liverpool fan who travels over to watch them regularly and also goes to their games in Europe. He doesnt support the irish team as "Liverpool is more important to him".

- Sees no problem in going accross the border every weekend to do his shopping. He doesn't really understand that the money he is spending goes into the British economy.

Personally, I have no issue with the queen coming to visit us. More than happy to see her here.

Cavehill Red · 24-06-2010 2:24pm

COYW wrote: »

Had a very interesting conversation with someone about this at lunch. This individual is totally against the visit yet, get ready for it folks, he :

- Is looking for a ticket for the corporate levels for the Dublin game on Sunday, so he can keep an eye on the England game.

- Is an avid Liverpool fan who travels over to watch them regularly and also goes to their games in Europe.

- Sees no problem in going accross the border every weekend to do his shopping. He doesn't really understand that the money he is spending goes into the British economy.

Personally, I have no issue with the queen coming to visit us. More than happy to see her here.

Keep tugging that forelock.
While you're at it, you could usefully contemplate the possibility that many Irish people have interest in British culture and respect for the British people while detesting the British authority claim to our island in the name of their monarch.

hinault · 24-06-2010 2:25pm

I'm indifferent to her visit.

Yes, Britain's involvement in our history for 800 years cannot be denied.
On the other side, the number of people who moved to Britain to live/work and build a life is huge.

So I can see both sides of the argument for the pro side and the anti side.

Brendog · 24-06-2010 2:27pm

djpbarry wrote: »

On behalf of the British people, which includes Lizzy.

Thats just 1 thing......there was also the masacre at Croke Park, Black and Tans etc. etc.

eightyfish · 24-06-2010 2:28pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

detesting the British authority claim to our island in the name of their monarch.

I'd like to re-quote post 62. The people responsible are long dead. The England that exists now is not the British Empire that ruled Ireland and ran the East India Company.

Wolfe Tone · 24-06-2010 2:28pm

Brendog wrote: »

Thats just 1 thing......there was also the masacre at Croke Park, Black and Tans etc. etc.

Wait! Dont you know? Because it happened in the past and those people are dead it doesn't matter! Who cares about that it is in the past!

Biggins · 24-06-2010 2:32pm

I see no problem with welcoming a democratic elected person from England (or any state).
Totally regardless of past history (be it good or bad), I won't however be bowing, curtsying or belittling myself (and possibly my home country) by shaking hands with someone who is holding a position only by non-elected, bloodline only, snobbish means.

Just to be clear, if Norway (or whomever) sends a king/queen/court jester having prior by democratic means, nominated to a position - I too should respect that and meet them as the representative of that office - as I will expect there to be one, fully working and all, not just be a holder of an honorary useless title.

Wolfe Tone · 24-06-2010 2:34pm

Biggins wrote: »

I see no problem with welcoming a democratic elected person from England (or any state).
Totally regardless of past history (be it good or bad), I won't however be bowing, curtsying or belittling myself (and possibly my home country) by shaking hands with someone who is holding a position only by non-elected, bloodline only, snobbish means.

Then when you add to that the fact that she still claims part of our island you get part of the reason why so many have objections to her visit.

Cavehill Red · 24-06-2010 2:35pm

eightyfish wrote: »

I'd like to re-quote post 62. The people responsible are long dead. The England that exists now is not the British Empire that ruled Ireland and ran the East India Company.

You obviously haven't heard that the British maintain a colony on the north-east of this island to this day, then?
I concur in relation to apologies, however. They're nonsense, intended solely to keep the populace in Ireland like you quiet and acquiescent to the ongoing denial of nationhood to Ireland by the British.

getz · 24-06-2010 2:38pm

eightyfish wrote: »

I'd like to re-quote post 62. The people responsible are long dead. The England that exists now is not the British Empire that ruled Ireland and ran the East India Company.

east india company-the dutch one or the british one,

sensibleken · 24-06-2010 2:41pm

id be fine with the ould wan coming here. its about time really.

they do however always make the royals do some ethnic stuff when they arive. personally i would love her to do an updated version os sez she

eightyfish · 24-06-2010 2:45pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You obviously haven't heard that the British maintain a colony on the north-east of this island to this day, then?

I don't agree with you, but I'm not going there as it's off topic.

I've no interest in seeing the queen here, but I have no problem with her visiting. She herself seems all right by all accounts. (Can't say the same for other members of her family...) I hate the anti-Britishness that prevails in Ireland.

dvpower · 24-06-2010 2:47pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You obviously haven't heard that the British maintain a colony on the north-east of this island to this day, then?

NI is a colony?

Under what definition?

Lando Griffin · 24-06-2010 2:47pm

sensibleken wrote: »

id be fine with the ould wan coming here. its about time really.

they do however always make the royals do some ethnic stuff when they arive. personally i would love her to do an updated version os sez she

And what of her bumbling husband Prince Philip, is he coming too?
I wonder what famous slur he will land on this fair nation.

Biggins · 24-06-2010 2:50pm

Just another point.
What would be the costs in her coming?

I ask because FF turned down recently funds much needed for Crumlin hospital.
Now I can see the justification of some money to be spent on welcoming a foreign minister of some description that might come with business, be it industrial and/or leisure industry, etc - however I can't see how the Mrs Elizibeth Winsor (last name correct?) is going to sit down, sign formal papers and legal agreements that might subsequently bring about further revenue to our state.

All I can see is the millions that was needed (and still is) for a hospital (for simple single example), going to be wasted instead to pay for this non-elected citizen to come over and be given 5 star luxuries.

I can think of better people, Irish people in the Dublin Rape Crises Centre and other charities/organisations that deserve that sort of treatment more so!

sensibleken · 24-06-2010 2:53pm

COYW wrote: »

Had a very interesting conversation with someone about this at lunch. This individual is totally against the visit yet, get ready for it folks, he :

- Is looking for a ticket for the corporate levels for the Dublin game on Sunday, so he can keep an eye on the England game.

- Is an avid Liverpool fan who travels over to watch them regularly and also goes to their games in Europe. He doesnt support the irish team as "Liverpool is more important to him".

- Sees no problem in going accross the border every weekend to do his shopping. He doesn't really understand that the money he is spending goes into the British economy.

Personally, I have no issue with the queen coming to visit us. More than happy to see her here.

kind of reminds me of

who the fug · 24-06-2010 2:55pm

Look if we have to pay for the fecking pope this year, ye can pay for Brenda next year

Judgement Day · 24-06-2010 2:58pm

Biggins wrote: »

Just another point.
What would be the costs in her coming?

I ask because FF turned down recently funds much needed for Crumlin hospital.
Now I can see the justification of some money to be spent on welcoming a foreign minister of some description that might come with business, be it industrial and/or leisure industry, etc - however I can't see how the Mrs Elizibeth Winsor (last name correct?) is going to sit down, sign formal papers and legal agreements that might subsequently bring about further revenue to our state.

All I can see is the millions that was needed (and still is) for a hospital (for simple single example), going to be wasted instead to pay for this non-elected citizen to come over and be given 5 star luxuries.

I can think of better people, Irish people in the Dublin Rape Crises Centre and other charities/organisations that deserve that sort of treatment more so!

Cost is just another red herring dragged up by the anti-British brigade. Any properly organised visit would pay back the associated costs in spades through increased tourism, trade links etc - just like any other high profile VIP visit. Clearly by the whole nuance of your post you're anti-British; And, no your spelling of both the Queen's names is incorrect.

However, as I said earlier in this thread I don't think the time is right for security reasons and judging by some of the posts here and feedback on Joe Duffy I suspect that it would do more harm than good. Great distraction for Biffo though.

dvpower · 24-06-2010 3:00pm

eightyfish wrote: »

Just as I said that... it's on Joe Duffy now.

He had a text poll (for or against the visit) that was open for 10 minutes and received 9971 responses.

6,548 for the visit
3,513 against the visit

Cavehill Red · 24-06-2010 3:02pm

dvpower wrote: »

NI is a colony? Under what definition?

How about the definition used by the Ulster-Scots Agency?

The Plantation of Ulster was the organised colonisation of Ulster by people from Britain. Private plantation by wealthy landowners began in 1606, while official plantation controlled by the monarchy began in 1609. All land owned by Irish chieftains the Ó Neills and Ó Donnells (along with those of their supporters) were confiscated and used to settle the colonists. This land comprised an estimated half a million acres (4,000 km²) in the counties Tyrconnell, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Cavan, Coleraine and Armagh (wasteland, woodland and bogland were uncounted).

djpbarry · 24-06-2010 3:02pm

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Then when you add to that the fact that she still claims part of our island...

It’s neither “our” island nor “her” island – it’s just a feckin’ island. With people on it. Some of whom get incredibly upset about people drawing imaginary lines on their lovely rock.

Judgement Day · 24-06-2010 3:03pm

Joe Duffy's online poll of more than 9,000 people - should the Queen be welcomed to Ireland was split 35% NO and 65% YES. For me that represents at its best potential disorder and a PR disaster for Ireland and at its worst a serious security threat to the royal party.

sensibleken · 24-06-2010 3:03pm

Lando Griffin wrote: »

And what of her bumbling husband Prince Philip, is he coming too?
I wonder what famous slur he will land on this fair nation.

i can't wait. he's always good for a laugh. it'll be something leprechaun or pig under the arm based

eightyfish · 24-06-2010 3:04pm

Biggins wrote: »

JWhat would be the costs in her coming? I ask because FF turned down recently funds much needed for Crumlin hospital.

Ah come off it, you can use that argument to give out about the govt spending money on anything other then Children's hospitals. As Joe pointed out a few minutes ago- the army and Garda are already there. They're perfect for jobs like this.

dvpower wrote: »

6,548 for the visit
3,513 against the visit

I'm relieved!

djpbarry · 24-06-2010 3:04pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How about the definition used by the Ulster-Scots Agency?

The Plantation of Ulster was the organised colonisation of Ulster by people from Britain. Private plantation by wealthy landowners began in 1606, while official plantation controlled by the monarchy began in 1609. All land owned by Irish chieftains the Ó Neills and Ó Donnells (along with those of their supporters) were confiscated and used to settle the colonists. This land comprised an estimated half a million acres (4,000 km²) in the counties Tyrconnell, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Cavan, Coleraine and Armagh (wasteland, woodland and bogland were uncounted).

And of course, we all know that nothing in Northern Ireland has changed over the last 400-odd years, has it?

G Luxel · 24-06-2010 3:05pm

ok so she arrives, and where is she likely to go and do? Kilmainham jail?, The Dail? Newgrange..., be entertained by Crystal Swing at the Aras?......I think Dev would be turning in his grave if she is carted around in his Rolls Royce.....

dvpower · 24-06-2010 3:05pm

Biggins wrote: »

Just another point.
What would be the costs in her coming?

We have invited her so I guess we will pick up the bill.
But the costs of hosting a visit will be repaid many times over in increased tourism revenues from UK visitors.

eightyfish · 24-06-2010 3:06pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How about the definition used by the Ulster-Scots Agency?

The Plantation of Ulster was the organised colonisation of Ulster by people from Britain.

Yes, which started hundreds of years ago. The children born of those people, and their children, have as much right to call NI a home as the other children born around then.

IrishTonyO · 24-06-2010 3:07pm

aDeener wrote: »

ahh so it has never been held? unlike here where we vote for our TDs every 5 years, right i see. thanks for clearing that up. moving on....

Strangely enough the UK votes for their politicians every 4 to 5 years as well, Imagine that. You really need to get a grip and live in the present

djpbarry · 24-06-2010 3:07pm

G Luxel wrote: »

I think Dev would be turning in his grave if she is carted around in his Rolls Royce.....

Fortunately, Dev is dead and so is his daft vision of a fundamentalist Catholic, isolationist, Irish state.

sensibleken · 24-06-2010 3:09pm

eightyfish wrote: »

Yes, which started hundreds of years ago. The children born of those people, and their children, have as much right to call NI a home as the other children born around then.

besides which, I think 400 years ago the O'Neils would have been equally pissed off with Leinster, Conaught or Munster staking a claim to Ulster.

eightyfish · 24-06-2010 3:09pm

dvpower wrote: »

But the costs of hosting a visit will be repaid many times over in increased tourism revenues from UK visitors.

And also how good with this news look in the world media?

dvpower · 24-06-2010 3:11pm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How about the definition used by the Ulster-Scots Agency?

That definition says that it was a colony not that it is a colony.

I had my suspicions that some of the naysayers are living in the past, but ffs:rolleyes:

P. Breathnach · 24-06-2010 3:13pm

dvpower wrote: »

NI is a colony? Under what definition?

There are some questions that you should not ask: you are inviting yourself on a trip down a cul-de-sac.

aDeener · 24-06-2010 3:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

and thats the problem with people apologising for the past.....
you can never apologise for cromwell or the famine. Its done. The people responsible are long dead.

hence why we shouldnt demand stupid hollow apologies, those who are stuck in a past they never lived through should get a life in the here and now

fan of the strawman arent we? i never mentioned cromwell or the famine. lizzy was commander in chief in 1972, she still is.

Queen Elizabeth II to visit Ireland.

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