Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Morte wrote: »

That was a peculiar game. Clare had a blistering start and then fell apart after conceding a poor goal. Then later we conceded a few peculiar frees and a poor goal and fell apart. And it was so quiet throughout. We thought it actually got quieter when the second half started compared to the interval as people weren't chatting to each other. It didn't feel like championship at all. The GAA should seriously look at staging these games in smaller venues.

It was disappointing to see Waterford peter out when the game was still there as this has been a strength of ours the last few years. I'm not sure if fitness was a contributing factor or if they just looked like that and it was a mental thing. The lack of subs to replace lads also can't have helped here.

Anybody else concerned by the decision to only leave two defenders back when Clare moved the rest of their forwards out around midfield? I thought this was madness especially with Honan around. If a full forward can beat you both in the air and for pace and you're isolated in acres of space near the goal I don't think the full back can do a lot. I'd like to have seen someone like Fives brought back to sweep up and a forward brought back to match the numbers in the middle of the pitch.

The bottom line as discussed before is we only have two forwards who are up to competing for the ball at present and that's not enough. Maurice had a great game up until his knock and I think this was a big milestone for him. Seamus Prendergast was his usual presence. One concern mentioned on the Sunday game was that he probably moved to full forward as he doesn't have the legs for 70 minutes out the field anymore. That seemed to be the case last year. This is a big concern to me as Shane Walsh is another good physical presence but he's never impressed outside of full forward. They can't both play there. With Maurice and Seamus out of the game and at full forward there wasn't a lot we could do at half forward. Deisehurler gave a good summary of our options and they likely revolve around trying to shunt someone like Fives upfront.

Straight talker was right in his comment just after the match that the young forwards just weren't ready for championship hurling. They're being thrown in because there isn't anyone else. No point in blaming them or Michael Ryan for that. The Sunday game had another good insight when they were speaking to the Westmeath (and Waterford!) football managers about the demands of the modern game. The Westmeath chap was speaking about the individual training plans Dublin can afford to set up for all their youngsters as they develop so they arrive to the senior panel with godlike physiques. He reckoned that it takes 3 years for his team to get someone up to that level when they join the Westmeath panel. I'm not sure teams in hurling are at football's level underage but it gives an indication of how tough it is to just pluck youngsters straight in. Kilkenny often don't give players a consistent run until they're in their early twenties (I know they've more competition in front of them). Jamie Barron may seem as new as Lester Ryan but one is 19 and the other is 25. Also Maurice Shanahan would only be starting to nail down his place now. Which puts into perspective his 'disappointing' years up to now (he's also had injuries of course). The forwards may well come good yet. Unfortunately I'm not sure if any of them have the natural physique of Prendergast or the industry of Molumphy.

Too much is being made of Iggy. He made no major cock ups. The forwards weren't winning ball from good deliveries from defence so I don't think O'Keefe's deliveries would make a huge difference. I would play O'Keefe myself but it's not a huge factor. Ditto the manager. Michael Ryan isn't perfect but he's by no means a disaster. There's not a huge lot one can do with the players available with the injuries.

Nagle and Connors had great games and Prendergast a good debut. Moran and Brick were dominant at times but both made some big mistakes as well. I don't get why there was a debate about Brick's distribution before the match. He's the best there is at laying the ball off under pressure. When he's given time and forced to try and dictate the play himself he's woeful. A few long passes went nowhere or straight to a Clare man. And to think people were complaining of Iggy's trajectory. Brick's are a high looping gift to a defence. Now obviously Brick is so dominant he's still a huge asset to a defence. But I'd still agree with Michael Ryan when he first took over and tried to move Brick back to the forwards when he started. I know he didn't seem comfortable but it might be worth trying again. I'd imagine one of him, O'Sullivan or Fives will need to end up there for the short term.

The qualifier route should be a good route for the youngsters to get a run out and to build some confidence. It also gives us a bit of room to experiment. I just hope Dublin don't get scalped and end up being our next opponents. Offally and Wexford will be a decent test but we should be capable of beating them.

thesaturdayman wrote: »

so how come kilkenny still up until recently had likes of comerford, kavanagh, in more recent times the john hoynes of the world still knocking around a panel be it number 22-28? they still made themselves available now our situation with kelly and mullane is different a lot more "ego" involved here but still that comes down to management.

ken walked when davy was there im sure ken has no grievences there but why did he walk as a selector with all these promising young lads coming through it seemed strange for him to walk away? there is surely more to that then meets the eye!

kelly is still topping scoring charts at club level, that is a fact! im not saying bring him back im saying the situation should never have been left get to where it is as clearly he could still offer something and we still kinda need him! ditto mullane! thats the management im talking about knowing who u can lose and who u cant! and doing what needs to be done to keep the team winning games! jaysus we had lads on the bench the last day wouldnt win a game of ludo dont mind try and turn a senior hurling match on its head!

another fact is i have never seen moran, brick & sullivan hurl so poorly as i did sunday. they didnt look one bit sharp hurling wise. its more then a coincidence if u ask me 3 ultra consistent and professional guys... it just struck me the amount of times the three of them in particular were hooked and blocked and running into dead ends.... seemed out of kilter from their usual standards, id put that at ryans door too although not totally his fault....

but having a bare 15 on your panel with no one to possibly come in to pull it out of the fire.... buck stops with ryan there.... this result has been coming a while lads and whatever about it... the offalys and wexfords will have their tales up when we play them.... i think its bad now but i reckon there is worse to come....

thesaturdayman wrote: »

probably ryan had done all he was capable of in terms of communicating and managing yea, but he isnt a good manager or communicater and i think if there had been someone else in place the outcome would have been different. for eg. would a donal o grady have left himself in this kind of a situation? unlikely.