Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

donalg1 · 21-03-2012 10:22am

robbie7730 wrote: »

People will be paying an awful lot more. No?

Link?

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:23am

People need to wake the **** up and see the bigger picture here, This is not about money, Its about the government getting themselves a database together and trying to force you into crap like this.

So for DV and the rest of the lemmings....
Get yourself a big bottle of lube, Pull those arse cheeks apart and lube up good...the way you go on your gonna need it.

Frank Black · 21-03-2012 10:29am

demanufactured wrote: »

.

So for DV and the rest of the lemmings....
Get yourself a big bottle of lube, Pull those arse cheeks apart and lube up good...the way you go on your gonna need it.

You'll be the one facing the possibility of a custodial sentence - you might want to stock up on a bit of lube yourself.

Bruthal · 21-03-2012 10:31am

black francis wrote: »

Perhaps not a dating event, but the point is well made.

I think the way she was looking at it was visually, rather than analysing.

The 'no' side is made up of a group of people who I would run a mile from before I associated myself with.
The Shinners, Joe Higgens, Joan Collins, The Unions, Wild Bill, People Before Profit - a vertible who's who of crazies and social retards.

€100 is a small price to pay, for not be in anyway associated with this lot.

So now you are paying to dis-associate. You will have to stop doing absolutely everything they do so. Not just one single thing.

(Cue outraged responses droning on and on about how the charge won't be €100 next year........)

So you wont associate with anyone that has not paid. Will you ask everyone before interacting with them? Or are you like the others, who have claimed they only know people who intend paying?

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:32am

black francis wrote: »

You'll be the one facing the possibility of a custodial sentence - you might want to stock up on a bit of lube yourself.

Why will i be facing a custodial sentence????

This is going to get abolished,,,they cant collect it,they couldn't run a piss up in a brewery.

donalg1 · 21-03-2012 10:33am

demanufactured wrote: »

People need to wake the **** up and see the bigger picture here, This is not about money, Its about the government getting themselves a database together and trying to force you into crap like this.

So for DV and the rest of the lemmings....
Get yourself a big bottle of lube, Pull those arse cheeks apart and lube up good...the way you go on your gonna need it.

Clever and articulate, Good Lad yourself. Just as well you arent representative of the majority of the CAHWT movement, but there are always a few like yourself knocking about the place. Well Done.

donalg1 · 21-03-2012 10:34am

demanufactured wrote: »

Why will i be facing a custodial sentence????

This is going to get abolished,,,they cant collect it,they couldn't run a piss up in a brewery.

:rolleyes:

DoesNotCompute · 21-03-2012 10:35am

lazygal wrote: »

Who would want to be associated with that bunch of ould fellas? Gave me the creeps.

Same shower of rich OAPs who hit the streets when FF tried to take away their free medical cards, tbh

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:35am

Austerity policies are strangling the economy, destroying jobs and driving the country into even deeper recession. This is your chance to say NO to austerity.

The government’s plan to register 1.8 million households for the Household Tax is in crisis. Hundreds of thousands of households are not paying.
Tens of thousands have attended public meetings and a grassroots campaign against the tax is organised in everycounty in the state.
People power can stop them, so let’s keep the government under pressure.

People have had enough of cutbacks. They are angry at the destruction of our health service. They understand that cuts in education will deny their children and grandchil- dren a future. But with this Campaign, they are standing up and saying enough is enough!
Slashing Services to Fund Bankers

The Government claims that money raised from the household tax will fund libraries, parks and the fire service. But they won’t tell you that in order to fund the bailout they cut €170 million from the Local Gov- ernment Fund, which will close libraries, parks and fire stations.

The €3.1 billion “promissory note” bondholder payment due on 31 March equals 20 years of household tax!
Household Tax, Universal Social Charge, VAT increases – the ‘norm’ in Europe?

The government says that household taxes are “the norm” in Europe. Yet, they are al- ready taking additional tax direct from your wages through the Universal Social Charge. And at 23%, we have one of the highest VAT rates in Europe.
Septic Tank Tax – It’s the Same Fight

Septic tanks must be made safe and reach high environmental standards. But the cost must be borne through a fair, progressive tax system which makes the rich pay and NOT by mas- sively penalising ordinary families liv- ing in rural areas.
The Government Has Betrayed the People

“It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a person’s home” (Enda Kenny 1994). That promise went the way of “not one red cent for the banks without burning the bondholders” and “Labour’s way or Frankfurt’s way”. The government has broken promise after prom- ise, and just like Fianna Fáil before them are lining up with the bondholders against the or- dinary people.
Jail the Bankers

While corrupt bankers and developers are free to continue enjoying lavish lifestyles at our expense the government threaten ordinary people for daring to boycott an unjust tax used to fund an unjust bailout. But these threats can be defeated (see over for details).
Don’t Be Bullied

The government can be defeated. Already they have been forced to cut the septic tank registration fee. Hun- dreds of thousands of households have refused to register. No one can be given a big fine unless they take you to court, and with hundreds of thousands refusing to pay, they will never be able to take anything but a tiny mi- nority of non-payers to court. By organising the campaign in every community, we can ensure that nobody will go to court alone and that court cases are turned into occasions of huge political protest. In this way we can de- fend each other from government threats.
By standing together we can win!

With just a few weeks to go it is vital we all stand together. Imagine the powerful message that will be sent, if on 31st March hundreds of thousands and possibly even a million households said ‘We’re not registering and we’re not paying the household tax’!
Join the Campaign

This Campaign is the most powerful grassroots campaign seen in this country in many years. It is organised in every county and is growing daily. We can beat the Government. Don’t register. Don’t Pay. Join the Campaign today.
Hotline 1890 98 98 00 / www.nohouseholdtax.org
Let’s keep the pressure on. This is your campaign.

Come to the National Rally Against the Household Tax at 1pm on Saturday 24th March in the National Stadium, South Circular Road, Dublin 8.
Then on Saturday 31st March the Campaign will protest at the Fine Gael Ard Fheis being held at the National Convention Centre, Dublin.

Frank Black · 21-03-2012 10:36am

demanufactured wrote: »

This is going to get abolished,,,they cant collect it,they couldn't run a piss up in a brewery.

Doubt it will really - unless you mean replaced by a property tax.

Guess we'll find out who's right over the next couple of years - don't go giving away your last bottle of lube just in case.

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:37am

donalg1 wrote: »

Clever and articulate, Good Lad yourself. Just as well you arent representative of the majority of the CAHWT movement, but there are always a few like yourself knocking about the place. Well Done.

Wasn't meant to be clever or articulate

Bruthal · 21-03-2012 10:38am

donalg1 wrote: »

Link?

You somehow see the household charge as independent of the property tax, so links are pointless. I think you know yourself where its heading.

Ghandee · 21-03-2012 10:39am

donalg1 wrote: »

Can you provide a link for this please, something showing where it says the Household Charge will be a few thousand later. Thanks

donalg1 wrote: »

Link?

Donal since your such a believer in requesting links to back up a claim, unless you can provide me with a link that proves the charge won't increase, I'd stay quiet if i were you :rolleyes:

Frank Black · 21-03-2012 10:41am

demanufactured wrote: »

Come to the National Rally Against the Household Tax at 1pm on Saturday 24th March in the National Stadium, South Circular Road, Dublin 8.

Anyone for the last few tickets there?

Anyone?

Bruthal · 21-03-2012 10:42am

Ghandee wrote: »

Donal since your such a believer in requesting links to back up a claim, unless you can provide me with a link that proves the charge won't increase, I'd stay quiet if i were you :rolleyes:

If you show a link showing the property tax will be €550 for 150k+ houses, he will say thats the property tax, not the household charge.

So its pointless.

Frank Black · 21-03-2012 10:42am

demanufactured wrote: »

Wasn't meant to be clever or articulate

Get off the internet and stop wasting our bandwidth then.

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:43am

black francis wrote: »

Anyone for the last few tickets there?

Anyone?

Come along, support your fellow man.

Ghandee · 21-03-2012 10:43am

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Same shower of rich OAPs who hit the streets when FF tried to take away their free medical cards, tbh

And did the medical cards get taken away from them during that protest ?

So......

Your point is?

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:44am

black francis wrote: »

Get off the internet and stop wasting our bandwidth then.

Clever...you really haven't a clue.

donalg1 · 21-03-2012 10:44am

demanufactured wrote: »

Wasn't meant to be clever or articulate

Obviously being sarcastic with my response because your reply was far from clever and articulate, the complete opposite actually

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:45am

black francis wrote: »

Get off the internet and stop wasting our bandwidth then.

Clever, You really haven't a clue.

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:45am

donalg1 wrote: »

Obviously being sarcastic with my response because your reply was far from clever and articulate, the complete opposite actually

Fair enough lol

donalg1 · 21-03-2012 10:46am

Ghandee wrote: »

Donal since your such a believer in requesting links to back up a claim, unless you can provide me with a link that proves the charge won't increase, I'd stay quiet if i were you :rolleyes:

Where did I say it wont increase?

I am asking people that claim it will increase for links, see the difference?

donalg1 · 21-03-2012 10:48am

robbie7730 wrote: »

You somehow see the household charge as independent of the property tax, so links are pointless. I think you know yourself where its heading.

Apparently they are independent of each other as one is a flat rate and the other will be based on a site valuation.

dvpower · 21-03-2012 10:48am

demanufactured wrote: »

Wasn't meant to be clever or articulate

Success on both counts so.

dvpower · 21-03-2012 10:51am

robbie7730 wrote: »

If you show a link showing the property tax will be €550 for 150k+ houses, he will say thats the property tax, not the household charge.

So its pointless.

There is no link - no decision has been made on the pricing for the property tax. There is speculation and there are recommendations from various bodies - that's all.
There is an ongoing consultation, that you might want to contribute to (or not).

CricketDude · 21-03-2012 10:51am

I paid it in Jan.
Sorry I did now.
I can see now that there will be a massive amount who dont pay. Probably a good thing.
I wouldnt mind paying this so much if everybody had to pay. Like the council tax in the uk. You should have to pay for living in the area, not get away free just because you dont own where you live.

Bullseye1 · 21-03-2012 10:54am

donalg1 wrote: »

Where did I say it wont increase?

I am asking people that claim it will increase for links, see the difference?

What do you expect the property tax to be on a standard 3 bedroom semi-detached house with a value of €150,000? Do you see it at the current €100?

Do you expect a further levy called a water tax to be introduced along with the property tax? What do you expect that will be?

If this tax does proceed do you still think that if you call out the fire brigade that you will be exempt from paying a call out charge even though we are told that his property tax is covering this service?

Finally do you expect once and for all that this government is going to cut out the enormous waste of tax payers money throughout the public sector? Do you expect them to finally sort out the health service and not be held over a barrell everytime the unions threaten them?

Why would anyone with half a brain think giving government (permanent civil servants) with a past track record of incompetent handling of tax payers money is going to help.

We were promised changes to how we spend tax payers money. All we have seen so far is the same as previous governments.

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 10:58am

CricketDude wrote: »

I paid it in Jan.
Sorry I did now.
I can see now that there will be a massive amount who dont pay. Probably a good thing.
I wouldnt mind paying this so much if everybody had to pay. Like the council tax in the uk. You should have to pay for living in the area, not get away free just because you dont own where you live.

Thats the problem most of us have with it, 'There should be NO exemptions.

Bruthal · 21-03-2012 10:58am

donalg1 wrote: »

Apparently they are independent of each other as one is a flat rate and the other will be based on a site valuation.

Yes, a pro paying point of view.

A common sense neutral point of view would be that the household charge is a property tax, the introductory level being €100, and is the instrument in setting up a database to bring the same tax to the intended levels.

See them as 2 unconnected items if you like. But child level common sense says they are the same, just with a different name and level.

These govenrments know that their simple act of a name change and payment level (upwards), will make many people believe the household charge is not a property tax, and they are different. Your view shows this.

And then one minister, with a computer screen, changes the word household to property, and lots of people follow it like the gods have intervened and changed it.

The introductory charge is simply a hook and bait exercise.

DoesNotCompute · 21-03-2012 11:03am

Ghandee wrote: »

And did the medical cards get taken away from them during that protest ?

So......

Your point is?

The point is they're well able to afford going without medical cards, just like the anti-shower are well able to afford the property charge. All they want to do is protest for the sake of it.

squod · 21-03-2012 11:04am

CricketDude wrote: »

Like the council tax in the uk.

The UK are getting something for their money in fairness. I'd pay an affordable council tax too. Trouble is the people running the show over here are not as trust worthy with peoples money.

Yesterdays headlines in the 'Mail said the government is still paying for GP services for 500 dead people.

And check out these numbers.....

Big payouts for backroom HSE staff

If the government tried even a little tiny bit to save €160m they could do it in a heartbeat. Clearly what we have are bullies who hate poor people. They do not have my support.

Bruthal · 21-03-2012 11:05am

dvpower wrote: »

There is no link - no decision has been made on the pricing for the property tax. There is speculation and there are recommendations from various bodies - that's all.
There is an ongoing consultation, that you might want to contribute to (or not).

It will be €500 or more, for the average house, i dont think there is much doubt about that.

And thats very conservative.

Saying that is not scare tactics. Its a likely outcome.

Bruthal · 21-03-2012 11:07am

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

The point is they're well able to afford going without medical cards, just like the anti-shower are well able to afford the property charge. All they want to do is protest for the sake of it.

So, your belief is, keep taxing until a level is reached that they cant afford?

gurramok · 21-03-2012 11:10am

Its laughable the no side posting links from the Daily Fail to back up their arguments. Why not post from The Sun while you're at it? :rolleyes:

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 11:12am

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

The point is they're well able to afford going without medical cards, just like the anti-shower are well able to afford the property charge. All they want to do is protest for the sake of it.

Nothing to do with "The sake of it"
We are protesting against the principle,
This is not Going towards local services.
This is a database creating exercise.
This will eventually turn into a property tax

It will more than likely go upto 1000 euro a year.
They will bring in water rates at a scarily inflated rate.
The taoiseach Wil still be on a huge salary that he does not need/deserve.

There will still be the amount of TD's we have now...far too many...

I could go on

Frank Black · 21-03-2012 11:20am

demanufactured wrote: »

I could go on

Only if you promise to be clever and articulate.

danmanw8 · 21-03-2012 11:21am

tayto lover wrote: »

Wait until they decide that everyone should pay Road Tax as well regardless of whether you have a car or not. Only a matter of time i'd say.
Never trust a crowd who specifically put a tax on Childrens' Shoes in 1974.

It is time people stood up for themselves.

Facts don't matter do they?
For the record, children's shoes were never taxed.
A proposal by the then govt to put VAT on all clothes was beaten in the Dáil in February 1981 & never implemented.
It was voted against by Jim Kemmy, who broke ranks because "all clothes" included children's clothes & shoes. There was never a specific proposal to tax children's shoes.
A proposal was later introduced (in line with all EU countries) to charge VAT on all clothes except this time they excluded Children's clothes & shoes and is still in place to this day.

demanufactured · 21-03-2012 11:22am

black francis wrote: »

Only if you promise to be clever and articulate.

Promise????
lol

Bullseye1 · 21-03-2012 11:24am

danmanw8 wrote: »

Facts don't matter do they?
For the record, children's shoes were never taxed.
A proposal by the then govt to put VAT on all clothes was beaten in the Dáil in February 1981 & never implemented.
It was voted against by Jim Kemmy, who broke ranks because "all clothes" included children's clothes & shoes. There was never a specific proposal to tax children's shoes.

It was still proposed although I do believe blue shirts were exempt

donalg1 · 21-03-2012 11:25am

Bullseye1 wrote: »

What do you expect the property tax to be on a standard 3 bedroom semi-detached house with a value of €150,000? Do you see it at the current €100?

Do you expect a further levy called a water tax to be introduced along with the property tax? What do you expect that will be?

If this tax does proceed do you still think that if you call out the fire brigade that you will be exempt from paying a call out charge even though we are told that his property tax is covering this service?

Finally do you expect once and for all that this government is going to cut out the enormous waste of tax payers money throughout the public sector? Do you expect them to finally sort out the health service and not be held over a barrell everytime the unions threaten them?

Why would anyone with half a brain think giving government (permanent civil servants) with a past track record of incompetent handling of tax payers money is going to help.

We were promised changes to how we spend tax payers money. All we have seen so far is the same as previous governments.

I have no idea what the property tax will be on a 3 bed semi, as there is no information on how the property tax will be calculated i.e. will it be done on square foot of the dwelling, the size of the overall site, the location of the dwelling, none of this has been confirmed so it is impossible to predict what the property tax might be on a 3 bed semi.

Same goes for the domestic water charges, which I fully expect to be introduced and not a moment too soon. I am sure they will be metered at the tap and people will be charged by usage, but as for how much it may be well I would only be guessing and basing my figures on rumours and would never be able to provide anything to substantiate my claims.

The fire service will always charge a call out fee regardless of anything else.

I have said before if anyone thought this government would be different from the last was living in cloud cuckoo land and were just kidding themselves.

dvpower · 21-03-2012 11:26am

robbie7730 wrote: »

It will be €500 or more, for the average house, i dont think there is much doubt about that.

And thats very conservative.

Saying that is not scare tactics. Its a likely outcome.

I don't know how much it will be next year and nor do you. I'm simply saying that you have no 'link' to this information, as you suggested, because it hasn't been decided yet.

So, yes, of course there is doubt. Many people on here, including yourself, have predicted that the charge will be defeated and that the price next year will be zero.

danmanw8 · 21-03-2012 11:28am

robbie7730 wrote: »

It will be €500 or more, for the average house, i dont think there is much doubt about that.

And thats very conservative.

Saying that is not scare tactics. Its a likely outcome.

Of course it is but what's your alternative? Increase income tax? Cut social welfare?

My alternative is that they should cut the pay of any public servants earning more than the average industrial wage. That would more than pay for the high social welfare levels (relative to other countries) and the local authorities.

I could see SF supporting this as they all claim to be only taking the average industrial wage.

SeaFields · 21-03-2012 11:30am

There is a great battle on the pat kenny show at the mo about this. Worth tuning in.

Frank Black · 21-03-2012 11:33am

danmanw8 wrote: »

I could see SF supporting this as they all claim to be only taking the average industrial wage.

They take the full whack of salary from the state (channelling some of it back to their party) - along with as many ink cartridges as they can stuff in their pockets

Bullseye1 · 21-03-2012 11:35am

So your not prepared to take a stand for change and properly run government?

BTW I am in favour of a property tax that everyone pays. I am also in favour of a residential tax that renters pay. If your living in a house and utilising the services provided you pay. There should be no exemptions. The days of subsidising are over, we are broke.

But we were promised changes in how our tax money is spent. They have been in for one year now and nothing has changed. They have failed to live up to their promise of reducing public expenditure to reduce our deficit. Raising VAT has not encouraged people to spend.

The Irish internal economy is on its knees and they are putting all of their eggs in one basket, exports, which creates little or no jobs. Of course it is going to take longer to get this country back off it's knees but I would be very wary of this 100,000 jobs over four years. They may create 100,000 jobs but there could easily be more lost if we do nothing about the Irish internal economy.

Why haven't commercial rates been lowered?
Why haven't they tackled upward only rents like they promised?

SMEs are our future not bigger government. We need a smaller more efficient public sector. Then people will be happy to pay these taxes coming down the road.

danmanw8 · 21-03-2012 11:36am

black francis wrote: »

They take the full whack of salary from the state (channelling some of it back to their party) - along with as many ink cartridges as they can stuff in their pockets

Point is they "claim" to live on an average industrial wage yet any suggestion that the protected public salaries are cut to that is vigorously opposed by them as are all alternative proposals for financing the running of the country including the household charge.

Ghandee · 21-03-2012 11:36am

black francis wrote: »

They take the full whack of salary from the state (channelling some of it back to their party) - along with as many ink cartridges as they can stuff in their pockets

But the main point being Sinn Fein ministers are not lining their own pockets.
Ink cartridges?
Any other expense scandals you can pin on them?

iPhone. · 21-03-2012 11:41am

I firmly believe this will be a huge issue in future elections, both local and national and its then we will see their true colours and determination.

Already relishing watching the local politicos dancing from foot to foot on my doorstep as they attempt their usual `say one thing, do another` routine.

Just on a side note, and apologies if it has already been asked. But, if this charge is as legitimate and straightforward as suggested, why are we not just getting a bill or demand for payment in the letterbox?

21-03-2012 11:41am

Ghandee wrote: »

But the main point being Sinn Fein ministers are not lining their own pockets.
Ink cartridges?
Any other expense scandals you can pin on them?

Few murders here and there, but sure what are a few murders between friends.

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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