Albert Quay - New Development

Michael.. · 03-03-2014 8:16pm

who_me wrote: »

Any new development in the city IS really positive and appreciated. It may even help kick-start the docklands redevelopment. (It'd be great too if they could clean up the quayside on that side of the river, add a cafe or stalls etc.) It's just a pity that it often seems to come with a downside, and obviously when it's jobs vs anything, the jobs argument inevitably wins.

The building doesn't look bad from the front, but from other elevations it's just another big, bland box. Probably with air-conditioning units on the roof to make it uglier still. That's the problem I have with a lot of the newer buildings. They're just big cuboids with no features. Bland glass 'n' cladding surfaces with no details to catch the eye. No arches or recessed windows to add some shadow or shape. No gabled roofs or dormer windows to add something to the city's roofscape. Just big (usually, too big) bland boxes.

I've been following the developments and proposals on an architecture forum for some time, and some of the proposals for Cork were crazy. Building on bridges. Building in the middle of the river! Building a tall tower on the Custom House Quay (don't know how they'd squeeze that in). Building apartment blocks with fire-escapes for stairwells (to maximise the apartments they could fit into a tiny site). I think we have to have some kind of reign on what's built and isn't.

Modern architecture is pretty lame compared to previous generations. For instance, look at the courthouse. It's a beautiful building that looks as good today as it did when it was built. Unfortunately, a lot of buildings built in the past 10, 15 years are already looking shabby.

With regards to the Albert Quay development, it isn't the worst design in the world. It's no courthouse, but if it entices 2,000 extra people into the city then I'm all for it.

I'd rather a building be covered in glass than that horrible plastic gladding that the Elysian is destroyed in - truly awful choice of material.

Michael.. · 03-03-2014 8:19pm

vince wrote: »

So is it the 5 story narrow building or the 8 story wider building we're getting

It's actually nine stories.

This is the one http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/boost-for-cork-as-50m-albert-quay-development-gets-go-ahead-259973.html

calnand · 03-03-2014 8:59pm

Michael.. wrote: »

Modern architecture is pretty lame compared to previous generations. For instance, look at the courthouse. It's a beautiful building that looks as good today as it did when it was built. Unfortunately, a lot of buildings built in the past 10, 15 years are already looking shabby.

With regards to the Albert Quay development, it isn't the worst design in the world. It's no courthouse, but if it entices 2,000 extra people into the city then I'm all for it.

I'd rather a building be covered in glass than that horrible plastic gladding that the Elysian is destroyed in - truly awful choice of material.

Most buildings built in the last 10/15 years haven't been designed by an architect though. Most are done by engineers, that design the cheapest and most efficient building design so a set structural grid and rectilinear plans. I know some parts of the elysian are not the nicest. But for office buildings you're not going to get architectural masterpieces, it's not worth it to the developer.

who_me · 03-03-2014 9:49pm

Michael.. wrote: »

Modern architecture is pretty lame compared to previous generations. For instance, look at the courthouse. It's a beautiful building that looks as good today as it did when it was built. Unfortunately, a lot of buildings built in the past 10, 15 years are already looking shabby.

With regards to the Albert Quay development, it isn't the worst design in the world. It's no courthouse, but if it entices 2,000 extra people into the city then I'm all for it.

I'd rather a building be covered in glass than that horrible plastic gladding that the Elysian is destroyed in - truly awful choice of material.

Personally, I actually don't mind too much if the docklands is full of 20..30..40 story modern towers. As you say, what tends to be built is disposable architecture that won't age well, so what would really annoy me is if a nicer older building is destroyed to make way for something cheap, functional, and ultimately, quite temporary.

We have a limited stock of older buildings (particularly in Cork, given its history). At least in the case of the building above it's just warehouses being demolished, but from the angle in the photos above the new development does look a bit awful next to the City Hall.

Incidentally, I saw some interesting designs too over the years, which after going through the planning process came out a lot more bland & unambitious. I wouldn't mind a very tall, modern building that was slender or had a bit of style to it. It's the chunky, ~6 story office cuboid blocks that eventually comes out of the planning process that I find least appealing.

zetalambda · 03-03-2014 10:41pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Looks like an overgrown cd rack tbh. Won't improve with age.

Anything would be an improvement on what's currently there. Very few buildings do improve with age.

BUNK1982 · 03-03-2014 10:43pm

It is a shame that the city council or planning authorities don't compel developers to submit proposals that have an architectural merit - the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh stadium being a case in point for me, or even to make more use of existing buildings (Wellington Road, Atkins Hall etc. Especially when you think that a small city like Cork could really carve out a niche for itself if it did.

That said, I think the 'glass cuboid' proposed above does fit into the location quite well - gives the place a kind of CBD feel.

Flesh Gorden · 04-03-2014 2:08am

zetalambda wrote: »

Anything would be an improvement on what's currently there. Very few buildings do improve with age.

I'd be glad to see that thing demolished, reminds me of the latter parts of A Clockwork Orange.

Has to be one of the ugliest and most out of place buildings in Ireland.
Up there with the Kane in UCC, and the likes of Central Bank and SIPTU buildings in Dublin.

opus · 04-03-2014 8:22am

Lambofdave wrote: »

Is there not a hotel to be part of the Sullivan Quay development?

Was originally supposed to be a hotel but that's died a death I believe. Last thing I saw was that an office building is planned now. Have a look at the website here (cheesy music warning!) - http://www.thequaycork.com/

Would agree that pretty much anything would be better than the concrete monstrosity that's there at present!

phatmanwc · 04-03-2014 9:46am

opus wrote: »

Would agree that pretty much anything would be better than the concrete monstrosity that's there at present!

Am I the only one that actually quite likes the existing building? I find it quite imposing, and very much an established part of the street-scape looking along the Parade, maybe in much the same way as I like the original Boole Library in UCC.

Fair enough, it certainly appears a tad shabby up close, and could do with some TLC, but much better than the redevelopment proposal posted above...

the beer revolu · 04-03-2014 10:36am

phatmanwc wrote: »

Am I the only one that actually quite likes the existing building? I find it quite imposing, and very much an established part of the street-scape looking along the Parade, maybe in much the same way as I like the original Boole Library in UCC.

Fair enough, it certainly appears a tad shabby up close, and could do with some TLC, but much better than the redevelopment proposal posted above...

No you're not.
I think that building has great form and lines.
But yes, very shabby.
It also houses hundreds of students and artists, creating a vibrant cultural hub in the city.

Michael.. · 04-03-2014 11:52am

Not a huge fan of the current building to be honest - very grey and out of place.
Maybe if they fixed it up a bit then I would warm to it.

I think Bam own the current site. I'd imagine if Heineken's event centre gets the go ahead then Bam will probably redevelop that site.

I think the purposed development looks quite nice.

ofcork · 04-03-2014 7:00pm

Another building which looks terrible is the farm centre just beyond Victoria cross so dull and grey

Michael.. · 05-03-2014 12:47am

ofcork wrote: »

Another building which looks terrible is the farm centre just beyond Victoria cross so dull and grey

The prize for the most ugly building in Cork has to go to Merchant's Quay. Somebody needs to knock it down quickly.

In my opinion it single handedly ruins the look of the city. Absolutely awful !!

whisky_galore · 05-03-2014 9:08am

Michael.. wrote: »

The prize for the most ugly building in Cork has to go to Merchant's Quay. Somebody needs to knock it down quickly.

In my opinion it single handedly ruins the look of the city. Absolutely awful !!

The buildings that were on that site were on their last legs by all accounts, but the MQ centre was a fugly replacement. Acres of uninspired boring red brick.

whisky_galore · 05-03-2014 9:09am

ofcork wrote: »

Another building which looks terrible is the farm centre just beyond Victoria cross so dull and grey

And the wreck that was the Crow's Nest.

BUNK1982 · 05-03-2014 11:43am

Michael.. wrote: »

The prize for the most ugly building in Cork has to go to Merchant's Quay. Somebody needs to knock it down quickly.

In my opinion it single handedly ruins the look of the city. Absolutely awful !!

Hadn't even thought of it - it is horrible now that I think about it.

I've always thought they should do something with the side of the Opera House as well - hold a competition to put a big mural on it or something.

Be better than a giant slab of concrete anyways!

evilivor · 05-03-2014 11:48am

BUNK1982 wrote: »

Hadn't even thought of it - it is horrible now that I think about it.

I've always thought they should do something with the side of the Opera House as well - hold a competition to put a big mural on it or something.

Be better than a giant slab of concrete anyways!

They have a large banner covering it for the last number of years.

BUNK1982 · 05-03-2014 12:35pm

evilivor wrote: »

They have a large banner covering it for the last number of years.

Yeah but that's an ad for toyota and it just gathers sh1te

evilivor · 05-03-2014 12:37pm

BUNK1982 wrote: »

Yeah but that's an ad for toyota and it just gathers sh1te

Not it's not.

phatmanwc · 05-03-2014 12:46pm

Here:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.900471,-8.472871,3a,75y,217.09h,98.56t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1st4uBGGaifJtJu4flq-X0SQ!2e0

:pac:

AugustusMinimus · 05-03-2014 1:10pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

The buildings that were on that site were on their last legs by all accounts, but the MQ centre was a fugly replacement. Acres of uninspired boring red brick.

No other way to put it, but they were in a very bad way. The whole area needed to be rebuilt. However, the red brick monstrosity was not what was required. We also lost 2 streets via the rebuild.

The next thing after that to go should be the bus station. The old plans were to integrate it with the train station. Having a single transport hub is the way to go I think. Removing the bus station and replacing it with something more relevant for the area is just a bonus.

BUNK1982 · 05-03-2014 3:57pm

phatmanwc wrote: »

Here:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.900471,-8.472871,3a,75y,217.09h,98.56t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1st4uBGGaifJtJu4flq-X0SQ!2e0

:pac:

That's actually not too bad

whisky_galore · 05-03-2014 4:02pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

No other way to put it, but they were in a very bad way. The whole area needed to be rebuilt. However, the red brick monstrosity was not what was required. We also lost 2 streets via the rebuild.

The next thing after that to go should be the bus station. The old plans were to integrate it with the train station. Having a single transport hub is the way to go I think. Removing the bus station and replacing it with something more relevant for the area is just a bonus.

Don't think that will happen anytime soon. Pity as the old goods area around Kent is turning into an awful howling wilderness of dereliction. Used to think the bus station was an awful kip (or maybe it was just the characters hanging around it:pac:) but the new awnings and renovations have brightened it up a bit. It's certainly better looking than Busarus, kip central.

calnand · 05-03-2014 11:15pm

Busaras is one of the most important buildings architecturally, in Ireland. It just hasn't been maintained very well over the years.

vince · 06-03-2014 12:19am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

No other way to put it, but they were in a very bad way. The whole area needed to be rebuilt. However, the red brick monstrosity was not what was required. We also lost 2 streets via the rebuild.

The next thing after that to go should be the bus station. The old plans were to integrate it with the train station. Having a single transport hub is the way to go I think. Removing the bus station and replacing it with something more relevant for the area is just a bonus.

That was a massive project for its time knocking and building the new centre is there anymore pics during construction

Knob Longman · 06-03-2014 12:41am

vince wrote: »

That was a massive project for its time knocking and building the new centre is there anymore pics during construction

It looked awful, Thank god they knocked it. Merchants Quay centre does look out of place though due to the hideous condition of the opposite quay, Its a miss mash of ugly buildings with no co ordination between them.

As for Albert Quay, What is there now wouldn't look astray in Detroit, The new building will fit in well with its surroundings..

whisky_galore · 06-03-2014 9:02am

calnand wrote: »

Busaras is one of the most important buildings architecturally, in Ireland. It just hasn't been maintained very well over the years.

I've seen pics of it new and it looked like sh!t then as well.

Lambofdave · 15-03-2014 11:10am

Back page of the examiner today, A development company in NAMA has objected to the Albert Quay development

vince · 15-03-2014 6:55pm

2 steps forward 3 back

Michael.. · 17-03-2014 5:26pm

The grounds on which they are appealing seem daft.

For starters, it's right next to the Elysian which is obviously big in scale. Across the river there's buildings of similar size too. You can't hold up a development because it's big relative to the sextant. There's potentially going to be an event centre in that area and Carey's will be developed over time as well and I've no doubt it'll be another big office block of some sort.

They also mention that they're worried about the affect it will l have on other offices (ie their own). Well, unfortunately, that's just tough luck. John Cleary seems to be able to build offices, and, more crucially, fill them.

zetalambda · 18-03-2014 12:14am

Sounds like a case of sour grapes from the 2 clowns that have made the complaint. Typical Irish begrudgery by two other property developers.

vince · 18-03-2014 1:26pm

The city hall would have been out of scale whit its suroundings when built and stone henge may have been seen as a blot on the landscape some folk need to move on.

Dave47 · 18-03-2014 10:58pm

zetalambda wrote: »

Sounds like a case of sour grapes from the 2 clowns that have made the complaint. Typical Irish begrudgery by two other property developers.

yep and the fact is it's delaying this project and costing the owners money- they already have tenant committed etc. and deadlines to reach.

Besides the project is completely in fitting with docklands development scheme etc.

phatmanwc · 21-03-2014 5:35pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/commercial-property/builders-face-off-over-tower-1.1732387

Looks like it's Michael O'Flynn of the Elysian fame who has objected. As mentioned in the linked article, you would think the AQ development would only serve to increase the value of the Elysian apartments? Such a frustrating set-back; let's hope it doesn't affect the commercial viability/agreements with potential tenants...

zetalambda · 21-03-2014 6:34pm

I'd say worst case scenario, they'll knock two floors off.

ofcork · 21-03-2014 6:38pm

I assume o Flynn wanted to develop that site in future to complete the block as such.

Michael.. · 22-03-2014 1:20am

zetalambda wrote: »

I'd say worst case scenario, they'll knock two floors off.

That's probably what will happen. Absolutely stupid though. The city should be high density. Look at the state of Dublin - urban sprawl on a grand scale.

Some of the objections are laughable. Others may cause issues though. For instance if Flynn insists on no access from the Elysian site then I'd imagine they're going to have to redesign the building. More time, more money.

Red Nissan · 22-03-2014 1:58am

ofcork wrote: »

I assume o Flynn wanted to develop that site in future to complete the block as such.

You bet. O'Flynn had a bigger project planned for that entire block, it never happened, he basically got his tower in a different location to where he wanted it, and more or less limited to the old marshaling yard area.

The whole thing does look funny for something designed, but it was something like this, plan put before the authorities, they said you can have that and that, not that, or that, or that and we want the tower here and not where you have it and we want it facing the street to make a street scape and that's yer lot, now gimme the money.

Lambofdave · 23-03-2014 10:56pm

Is it three objections now?
Still on development theme, is there any plans to change the road infrastructure in Mahon with all the new jobs and the future plan to increase the size of mahon point at some stage?

AugustusMinimus · 24-03-2014 10:08am

Lambofdave wrote: »

Is it three objections now?
Still on development theme, is there any plans to change the road infrastructure in Mahon with all the new jobs and the future plan to increase the size of mahon point at some stage?

Yes. One new entrance sliproad. Two new exit sliproads (one out of the shopping centre) and a new link road to help traffic flow in the area.

Lambofdave · 25-03-2014 8:33pm

Thanks for that photo

ongarboy · 03-04-2014 9:47am

Around the corner at the Elysian, Aldi has just been granted planning permission to open on the ground floor. Apparently there was not one objection to Bord Pleanala which is rare for the likes of Aldi/Lidl etc.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2014/0403/features/aldi-wins-elysian-go-ahead-264080.html

Michael.. · 03-04-2014 9:58am

Great to see that building being put to use.

I pass it most days and by the looks of things the apartments are filling up slowly but surely.

Was a bit surprised that The Elysian owners objected to the new office block on Albert Quay. With a potential capacity of 2000 people - some of which will need
accommodation in the city - it is perfect opportunity to to fill the place once and for all.

vince · 03-04-2014 10:49am

The march of aldi continues

Going Strong · 03-04-2014 10:57am

ongarboy wrote: »

Around the corner at the Elysian, Aldi has just been granted planning permission to open on the ground floor. Apparently there was not one objection to Bord Pleanala which is rare for the likes of Aldi/Lidl etc.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2014/0403/features/aldi-wins-elysian-go-ahead-264080.html

There was always provision for a shop in the plans though. I think it was either a Spar or Centra that was supposed to go in there from day one but it never happened.

vince · 03-04-2014 10:59am

Supprised tesco didnt jump in there

who_me · 03-04-2014 2:34pm

ongarboy wrote: »

Around the corner at the Elysian, Aldi has just been granted planning permission to open on the ground floor. Apparently there was not one objection to Bord Pleanala which is rare for the likes of Aldi/Lidl etc.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2014/0403/features/aldi-wins-elysian-go-ahead-264080.html

Not too surprising I'd say, given there are very few people living in that area other than the Elysian building itself.

It's a bit of an odd location for a store too, for the same reason. Most of the customers will be coming from the building itself, maybe a few from Albert Rd. It's a fairly pedestrian-unfriendly area though with very busy traffic.

zetalambda · 04-04-2014 12:19am

ongarboy wrote: »

Apparently there was not one objection to Bord Pleanala which is rare for the likes of Aldi/Lidl etc.

Coincidentally, there was not one objection to the Elysian when it was going through the planning process.

Michael.. wrote: »

Great to see that building being put to use.

I pass it most days and by the looks of things the apartments are filling up slowly but surely.

Was a bit surprised that The Elysian owners objected to the new office block on Albert Quay. With a potential capacity of 2000 people - some of which will need
accommodation in the city - it is perfect opportunity to to fill the place once and for all.

O' Flynn stated in a recent interview that almost 50% of the apartments are now occupied. Still appears as if he's shot himself in the foot by complaining. Albert quay development is guaranteed to not only fill the Elysian but also increase the value of the apartments.

who_me wrote: »

It's a bit of an odd location for a store too, for the same reason. Most of the customers will be coming from the building itself, maybe a few from Albert Rd. It's a fairly pedestrian-unfriendly area though with very busy traffic.

I was a bit surprised when I read Aldi were interested in opening a store in the Elysian. It's been marketed as Corks most exclusive address so I would have thought that a discount supermarket would be the last place the residents would shop. Also, there are not many residential areas around the Elysian and it is as you say pretty pedestrian unfriendly. I was thinking that Aldi primarily spotted an opportunity to advertise their brand to the tens of thousands of drivers that come off the link road everyday.

Red Nissan · 04-04-2014 1:18am

The Elysian Tower, with the exception of the English Core builders, was built by Polish workers, we are already reaping their legacy in many estates around the county.

evilivor · 04-04-2014 9:54am

Red Nissan wrote: »

The Elysian Tower, with the exception of the English Core builders, was built by Polish workers, we are already raping their legacy in many estates around the county.

We're already what now?

Albert Quay - New Development

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