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Temporary Closure of Section of Lough Atalia Road from 23rd March to May, 2015

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    #362
    dloob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭dloob


    ratracer wrote: »
    I didn't think if like this one way idea, but the more I think about it the more sense it makes. I would leave a dedicated bus lane on both roads.

    One problem though is that traffic outbound from the docks and traffic inbound from lough atalia will have to cross over each other along the road at the radisson, where so much pent-up road rage had been unleashed for the last 8 weeks!!

    The sea side footpath of lough atalia could be made into a dedicated cycle lane with pedestrian traffic on the buildings side.

    Won't most of the inbound traffic now continue under the bridge?


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    #363
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    dloob wrote: »
    Won't most of the inbound traffic now continue under the bridge?

    Yes, but think about where the outbound traffic will go: under the bridge and up LA road, then turn left at the rights and move into the right lane to go up College Rd.

    As someone said, every tanker and HGV from the port going along the road between the railway station and the coach station, and then along the most BnB-laden road in the town - which also has city hall, a secondary school and the sportsground as well as lots of houses.

    Madness.


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    #364
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Council have traffic camera at LoughAtalia/College & Fairgreen/Station junctions, so they can see how fast cars are going
    and the Fairgreen camera can see all the right lane traffic cutting into the left lane


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    #365
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭ratracer


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Council have traffic camera at LoughAtalia/College & Fairgreen/Station junctions, so they can see how fast cars are going
    and the Fairgreen camera can see all the right lane traffic cutting into the left lane

    I'd doubt it!! Any link to that claim?


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    #366
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    ratracer wrote: »
    I'd doubt it!! Any link to that claim?
    Eh, ratracer :cool:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91037857&postcount=30


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    #367
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭ratracer


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Eh, ratracer :cool:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91037857&postcount=30

    I don't think those cameras monitor/ record speed though. Someone in the UTCC (if it even exists) can oversee traffic alright, but I have yet to see the lights changing out of sequence in order to move certain traffic lanes quicker.


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    #368
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Eh, you can see a very large calculator on that desk.
    The UTC does exist, it's adjacent to City Hall and you and me pay for it.
    equation_speed.jpg


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    #369
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    kippy wrote: »
    Something ridiculous came into my head today and is somewhat linked to this project.

    I don't want to mention the "C" word but its something I've been thinking about a lot in recent days as I have a friend who came off a bike when cycling in traffic.

    Why is there is a big deal about cyclists using footpaths in and out of town and why is't more done to:
    1. Seperate cyclists and motorists (either by making some footpaths open to cyclists - I am talking about the main access routes here or adding in a few feet to the footpath in areas like along the loughatalia road where there is space on the sea side for a cycle path.
    Would be a drop in the ocean costs wise compared to the work that is just wrapping up on LA.

    For every problem there is a solution that is neat, simple and wrong. Leaving aside pedestrian conflicts, cycling on footpaths can put you at increased risk of being hit by car. Because it increases the conflict points at junctions and driveways etc. That type of segregation usually a requires fundamental redesign of all the junctions involved.

    That said, coastal locations - like the sea side of Lough Atalia road would be a good candidate for some kind of two-way cycle path.

    But there would still be the issue of how outbound cyclists could get to Moneenageisha cross from the end of Lough Atalia road.


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    #370
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Yes, but think about where the outbound traffic will go: under the bridge and up LA road, then turn left at the rights and move into the right lane to go up College Rd.

    As someone said, every tanker and HGV from the port going along the road between the railway station and the coach station, and then along the most BnB-laden road in the town - which also has city hall, a secondary school and the sportsground as well as lots of houses.

    Madness.

    An additional observation is that making College Road one-way has effectively sterilised the bikeshare station at City Hall. You might be able to cycle to City Hall from town but getting back into the city might be a bit complicated.


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    #371
    Crumbs868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 438 ✭✭Crumbs868


    what_traffic wrote: »
    I was only messing. No the big draw back is routing all the HGV Fuel tankers, 5 AXEL Artics and the like down Fairgreen

    6 AXLE


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    #372
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,438 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    For every problem there is a solution that is neat, simple and wrong. Leaving aside pedestrian conflicts, cycling on footpaths can put you at increased risk of being hit by car. Because it increases the conflict points at junctions and driveways etc. That type of segregation usually a requires fundamental redesign of all the junctions involved.

    That said, coastal locations - like the sea side of Lough Atalia road would be a good candidate for some kind of two-way cycle path.

    But there would still be the issue of how outbound cyclists could get to Moneenageisha cross from the end of Lough Atalia road.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't deny there would be problems but there are surely certain parts of the routes into the city from the bigger residential locations where cycle paths could be taken off off the roads altogether and put in places like along lough Atalia, and perhaps cut across behind the huntsman out the dublin road for example.
    Obviously there would be issues to sort out about other junctions etc however there are portions of road whereby paths could be extended along them for use by bikes.
    I personally think that the more bikes that are kept out of the same roadspace as motorists for the longest length of time, the better.


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    #373
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,438 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    antoobrien wrote: »
    It happened on a path, so it's relevant.

    There was a woman that should have been clearly visible beside the car (the cyclist was close to the wall, so it's likely that he swerved to avoid here), so he should not have been travelling anywhere near that fast.

    That said, if the woman had closed the gate behind her, the child wouldn't have gotten knocked down (that's not an attempt to absolve the cyclist of blame, the child ran out through an open gate).



    I don't know about you but I hate contra flow cycle lanes (one of the reasons I always went with traffic on the QB), because it has always felt like it won't take much for me to be smeared across the front of a bus/car/van/truck.

    There needs to be some separation for contra flow cycle lanes (1m minimum, 2m better).
    Fair enough, it happened on a path.
    I'd be able to give you countless more examples of accidents, a lot fatal of accidents that occur when cars interact with cyclists, cyclists who may be in the "cycle lane" (painted on the road type)
    I suppose the solution to both sets of issues is more attention being paid by all concerned.
    When I am cycling I like to be as far from cars as possible to be honest.


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    #374
    Eeden
    Registered Users Posts: 17,912 ✭✭✭✭Eeden


    Just curious, I have no idea if there's a good reason for this, but this is a genuine question -- why don't cyclists use mirrors?


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    #375
    O.A.P
    Registered Users Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭O.A.P


    Eeden wrote: »
    Just curious, I have no idea if there's a good reason for this, but this is a genuine question -- why don't cyclists use mirrors?
    Get one on your bike and you'll never look back. wink.png
    I have one actually don't care how un cool it looks .


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    #376
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/77927/road-at-lough-atalia-bridge-to-reopen-this-weekend

    Director of services for transport Joe O’Neill said it was not possible to get the works completed a day before the scheduled finish date. “I appreciate fully that people have been discommoded. The contractors have done really well to get the work done within the timeframe, it has been a well managed project. It is not possible to work through the night, we would be in breach of our own conditions. A safety audit must take place on Friday, we cannot open the road without completing this audit. It would be unsafe to do so.’’

    Regarding the trial period of three weeks when the one way system will remain in place, Mr O’Neill said he would welcome feedback on the plan. “We want to access the impacts of the options under consideration - there will be positives and negatives and we will consider our options. It is small moves like this that can help our traffic issues. We will have the benefit of seeing how it works with the bridge open and inbound traffic being able to access the harbour again. If this trial works it could become a permanent measure and everybody will reap the benefits of that.”

    How does one get this Safety Audit? FOI from the City Council?
    Does Joe really think it's a good idea to be sending HGV's from the docks onto the Fairgreen Road between the cities two major transport hubs?
    Will be a disaster for City Hall in trying to get employees to actual cycle to City Hall from the East Side of the City.


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    #377
    death1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 3,331 ✭✭✭death1234567


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Does Joe really think it's a good idea to be sending HGV's from the docks onto the Fairgreen Road between the cities two major transport hubs?
    It's worth trying for a while and it could be a good idea. Buses already use the road and they have a bigger tailswing than HGVs. Also Galway port isn't excetly Rotterdam.
    Will be a disaster for City Hall in trying to get employees to actual cycle to City Hall from the East Side of the City.
    It won't make any difference at all.


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    #378
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,723 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Will be a disaster for City Hall in trying to get employees to actual cycle to City Hall from the East Side of the City.

    You know, it looks to me like there's a pedestrian and cycle path from The Green down to Forster Court.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.277833,-9.04256,3a,75y,267.8h,69.43t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sENhfZqmNLCRixKG62ONeQw!2e0


    I can't see why there cannot be one from behind City Hall as well.


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    #379
    Laviski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭Laviski


    could give scope to have a dedicated bus lane which would make it great for bus journeys and emergency services. Especially during the peak seasons, make public transport more attractive.


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    #380
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    death1234567 wrote: »
    It's worth trying for a while and it could be a good idea. Buses already use the road and they have a bigger tailswing than HGVs. Also Galway port isn't excetly Rotterdam.

    It won't make any difference at all.
    As you probably know (based on your user name); its HGV's that tend to kill pedestrians and cyclists in built up area's rather than buses.

    It's not Rotterdam at the minute but you would be surprised at the no of HGV movements in and out all the same. If the Harbour get's redeveloped that will only lead to more HGV traffic.


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    #381
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    You know, it looks to me like there's a pedestrian and cycle path from The Green down to Forster Court.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.277833,-9.04256,3a,75y,267.8h,69.43t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sENhfZqmNLCRixKG62ONeQw!2e0


    I can't see why there cannot be one from behind City Hall as well.

    Maybe there is but cant see how it will help all that much.


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    #382
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    what_traffic wrote: »
    "If this trial works it could become a permanent measure and everybody will reap the benefits of that.”

    A safety audit must take place on Friday, we cannot open the road without completing this audit. It would be unsafe to do so.’’

    How does one get this Safety Audit? FOI from the City Council?
    Does Joe really think it's a good idea to be sending HGV's from the docks onto the Fairgreen Road between the cities two major transport hubs?
    Will be a disaster for City Hall in trying to get employees to actual cycle to City Hall from the East Side of the City.

    Galway City Council have a strange definition of "everybody". Actually, not so strange -- it's the usual definition, which you can easily guess.

    Why are they talking about a road safety audit only now? Was there one for the Traffic Management Plan?

    Road Safety Audits can be obtained without resorting to FOI, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Laviski wrote: »
    could give scope to have a dedicated bus lane which would make it great for bus journeys and emergency services. Especially during the peak seasons, make public transport more attractive.

    How does a one-way loop on this scale make public transport more attractive? If buses travel both ways on a route, you choose which side of the road to wait for the bus, depending on your desired direction of travel. What do you do when the bus goes only one way? Genuine question.


    .


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    #383
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    death1234567 wrote: »
    It's worth trying for a while and it could be a good idea. Buses already use the road and they have a bigger tailswing than HGVs. Also Galway port isn't excetly Rotterdam.

    I did not realise that Rotterdam sent the HGV's that use the port into it's City Centre?

    See the following article published today
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/29/cyclist-killed-lorry-collision-london-denmark-hill
    "
    All six fatal accidents to cyclists in London in 2015 have involved lorries.
    "
    Luckily in Dublin we now have the Port Tunnel but prior to that many cyclists in Dublin were also killed by HGV's


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    #384
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Road under the bridge was open this evening at about 8pm. Two-way under bridge but one-way still in place otherwise.

    There are now (narrow) cycle lanes under the bridge. The drainage grates are in the lane surface rather than in the kerb face.

    There also looks to be a pedestrian guard rail on one side which would make the cyclists the "meat in the sandwich" between the barrier and the trucks (trucks will now be closser as well).


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    #385
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Road Safety Audits can be obtained without resorting to FOI, but I wouldn't hold my breath
    .

    True, but if you request it through FOI, which is free now btw, there is a strict timeline to which they must adhere. That way, you might have a wait, but at least you will know how long that wait is


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    #386
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    Road under the bridge was open this evening at about 8pm. Two-way under bridge but one-way still in place otherwise.

    There are now (narrow) cycle lanes under the bridge. The drainage grates are in the lane surface rather than in the kerb face.

    There also looks to be a pedestrian guard rail on one side which would make the cyclists the "meat in the sandwich" between the barrier and the trucks (trucks will now be closser as well).

    Designing for the past?

    It would be interesting to observe the actual passing distances once it's operational.


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    #387
    GalwayMagpie
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭GalwayMagpie


    Having driven around the Docks, Lough Atalia, College Road a few times today, it is obvious to all road users that this arrangement makes sense. Traffic flows so much better due to the number of points at which road users intersect each others path being greatly reduced. Traffic merges, rather than block each other's path. Galway needs to grow up and have more such one way loops with all traffic flowing in the same direction.

    There is a issue with HGV's, but how many of these travel east out of the port every day? Is it that much worse than the current situation for any west bound HGV's? Other arrangements could be put in place so as the hours at with they can travel could be restricted i.e. no HGV at rush hours between 7am - 10am and 4pm - 7pm, where cyclists would be particularly vulnerable.

    The old status quo needed to be changed, it was antiquated, unsuitable and inefficient, the new system might not be perfect, but it is a damn sight better.


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    #388
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,884 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    GalwayMagpie wrote: »
    Having driven around the Docks, Lough Atalia, College Road a few times today, it is obvious to all road users that this arrangement makes sense. Traffic flows so much better due to the number of points at which road users intersect each others path being greatly reduced. Traffic merges, rather than block each other's path. Galway needs to grow up and have more such one way loops with all traffic flowing in the same direction.

    There is a issue with HGV's, but how many of these travel east out of the port every day? Is it that much worse than the current situation for any west bound HGV's? Other arrangements could be put in place so as the hours at with they can travel could be restricted i.e. no HGV at rush hours between 7am - 10am and 4pm - 7pm, where cyclists would be particularly vulnerable.

    The old status quo needed to be changed, it was antiquated, unsuitable and inefficient, the new system might not be perfect, but it is a damn sight better.

    No way could you restrict traffic from the docks , coal lorries, fuel tankers, bitumen tankers, Bus Eireann buses and City link buses are all down there, you could not restrict them just because of cyclists, the economy has to keep on the move and when ships are in they have to be unloaded asap.
    ,


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    #389
    GalwayMagpie
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭GalwayMagpie


    I thought all the fuel ships put their cargo into depots around the docks, and the tankers take from the depot. I don't mean to belittle Galway docks, but I imagine most of the goods made in Galway exit Ireland through Dublin port. I have never seen multiple HGV's lined up with cargo being loaded/unloaded - as someone said this ain't Rotterdam.

    Just thinking, how many cyclists actually go from Lough Atalia up over the hill towards the Coach Station, I'd wager not many. There is planty of scrub land on the left going up the hill, plenty of space for a cycle lane if needed.


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    #390
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    Drove under the bridge this morning - they've done an excellent job, very well finished and pretty much on schedule.


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    #391
    GekkePrutser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 673 ✭✭✭GekkePrutser


    what_traffic wrote: »
    As you probably know (based on your user name); its HGV's that tend to kill pedestrians and cyclists in built up area's rather than buses.

    It's not Rotterdam at the minute but you would be surprised at the no of HGV movements in and out all the same. If the Harbour get's redeveloped that will only lead to more HGV traffic.

    The bigger question is why does the harbour not get moved outside the town centre? If they're redeveloping they should totally do this. They can keep the old docks for pleasure crafts.

    I've never understood why it is still in the town. It doesn't add any value being there. Just causes problems with trucks in places where they don't belong.


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