Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

Clareman · 18-05-2021 4:48pm

126 people based in Shannon was a lot of people, hopefully all those affected will be able to source alternative roles as soon as possible.

JamesBond2010 · 18-05-2021 4:59pm

Clareman wrote: »

126 people based in Shannon was a lot of people, hopefully all those affected will be able to source alternative roles as soon as possible.

90% were on pup since last year. but most of the cargo was roaded to dublin. 4 mechanics still around & even then they were not on every day.

Stanford · 18-05-2021 5:07pm

opinionated3 wrote: »

Aer lingus declared the airport inefficient, whatever they mean by that. Time for our local political representatives to step up to the mark or else it will become a ghost town

I can't see where they said that "Aer lingus declared the airport inefficient", where is this said please?

Deagol · 18-05-2021 5:23pm

Clareman wrote: »

Terrible news as this means that there won't be anymore early morning flights to Heathrow.

Where does it say that?

I personally Would hypothesise that the A321 from JFK will do that run as previously.

JamesBond2010 · 18-05-2021 5:30pm

Deagol wrote: »

Where does it say that?

Would hypothesise that the A321 from JFK will do that run as previously.

Cause there will be no crew base there. there will no crew there. it was like the ryanair manchester sometimes it was run with english crew.
The return leg then where are the crew supposed to stay when finished they wont be driving all the way back to say dublin when they are finished .

Clareman · 18-05-2021 5:45pm

Deagol wrote: »

Where does it say that?

I personally Would hypothesise that the A321 from JFK will do that run as previously.

The lack of crew based here means that crews won't change once they hit their hour limits

One_More_Mile · 18-05-2021 5:48pm

Stupid question but does this mean transatlantic flights to the states ( in normal times) are gone too?

JCX BXC · 18-05-2021 5:49pm

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

The return leg then where are the crew supposed to stay when finished they wont be driving all the way back to say dublin when they are finished .

In fairness, when operating the Malaga and Faro routes they routinely bus crew up and down from Cork.

I'm not sure they're even certain of their own plans. Waiting on the Irish government to give their blessing is no business plan however, which is why we're seeing Aer Lingus branch out and make hard decisions to keep it's head above water.

No doubt the very politicians whose parties support the government's strategy/are in government will be the ones who'll moan the loudest at this.

Clareman · 18-05-2021 5:51pm

One_More_Mile wrote: »

Stupid question but does this mean transatlantic flights to the states ( in normal times) are gone too?

Direct flights might be reduced I'd imagine, go back to the hop to Dublin and over then

JCX BXC · 18-05-2021 6:05pm

Clareman wrote: »

Direct flights might be reduced I'd imagine, go back to the hop to Dublin and over then

Either they continue, or they're gone. Only 3 situations could arise, either they continue daily with 2 aircraft, they split new York and Boston on odd days with 1 aircraft, or they pull out fully.

Certainly won't be doing connecting to Dublin.

RocketRaccoon · 18-05-2021 6:49pm

Stanford wrote: »

I can't see where they said that "Aer lingus declared the airport inefficient", where is this said please?

They declared Shannon inneficient many years ago when they pulled the Heathrow route. They have zero interest in Shannon, good riddance

yew_tree · 18-05-2021 6:58pm

Sad to hear this. Would many Aer Lingus staff have been based at Shannon at its peak?

Will US flight continue? From Mayo myself so use Knock for UK flights but always preferred to use Shannon for the US as it’s not as stressful as Dublin and even nearer since the motorway opened up to Tuam.

JCX BXC · 18-05-2021 7:02pm

As of now, we've no idea what the future outcome of the routes are, however given that ground staff are remaining Aer Lingus will likely maintain some sort of presence. What that will be remains yet to be seen.

Stanford · 18-05-2021 7:30pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

They declared Shannon inneficient many years ago when they pulled the Heathrow route. They have zero interest in Shannon, good riddance

I agree, they are not going to re-instate a slimmed down version of the old stopover, anyway a lot of passengers now prefer to fly ex Dublin because of the greater connectivity, COVID gave EI the excuse it wanted for years to exit Shannon

JamesBond2010 · 18-05-2021 7:40pm

Stanford wrote: »

I agree, they are not going to re-instate a slimmed down version of the old stopover, anyway a lot of passengers now prefer to fly ex Dublin because of the greater connectivity, COVID gave EI the excuse it wanted for years to exit Shannon

Thats what I said the exact excuse they wanted.

highlydebased · 18-05-2021 8:01pm

opinionated3 wrote: »

Aer lingus declared the airport inefficient, whatever they mean by that. Time for our local political representatives to step up to the mark or else it will become a ghost town

Presume they mean having a cabin crew base and their own handling for what is a small operation.

I feel sorry for the cabin crew, some incredibly friendly individuals who remember names and faces and always gave a very warm welcome.

RocketRaccoon · 18-05-2021 8:09pm

Aer Lingus approached another handling company in the airport last year to see if they could reach an agreement for them to handle the EI flights as it would have been cheaper for them.

This is a fact and with todays news it could be brought up again.

JCX BXC · 18-05-2021 8:15pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Aer Lingus approached another handling company in the airport last year to see if they could reach an agreement for them to handle the EI flights as it would have been cheaper for them.

This is a fact and with todays news it could be brought up again.

Is that not standard among the business world? Where outsourcing is cheaper and more efficient, businesses outsource.

Business want to make money. Not always good for local staff however.

JamesBond2010 · 18-05-2021 8:38pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Is that not standard among the business world? Where outsourcing is cheaper and more efficient, businesses outsource.

Business want to make money. Not always good for local staff however.

outsourcing doesnt always meant cheaper & more efficient, it can cost them just as much when you factor in what you are paying them per hour.Customer service then suffers as well. Look @ any of the mobile operators they have their callcentres outsourced & their customer service is terrible cause of it. that in turn can lead people to stay away from them

Clareman · 18-05-2021 8:45pm

TUPE would need to apply for outsourcing so that probably won't happen for a couple of years or else they'd be leaving themselves wide open to trade disputes otherwise.

RocketRaccoon · 18-05-2021 8:47pm

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

outsourcing doesnt always meant cheaper & more efficient, it can cost them just as much when you factor in what you are paying them per hour.Customer service then suffers as well. Look @ any of the mobile operators they have their callcentres outsourced & their customer service is terrible cause of it. that in turn can lead people to stay away from them

This would have worked out much cheaper for Aer Lingus. Much cheaper.

Brennans Row · 18-05-2021 9:47pm

corkonion · 18-05-2021 10:35pm

Brennans Row wrote: »

Its a national disgrace, irish politicians should hang their heads in shame, still no iota of a plan to restart some form of travel, absolute cowards, I for one will not forget.

JCX BXC · 18-05-2021 11:01pm

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

outsourcing doesnt always meant cheaper & more efficient, it can cost them just as much when you factor in what you are paying them per hour.Customer service then suffers as well. Look @ any of the mobile operators they have their callcentres outsourced & their customer service is terrible cause of it. that in turn can lead people to stay away from them

No it doesn't always mean that, that's why I said where it is cheaper/more efficient.

I accept the call center analogy, however I'm not sure it's applicable. A call center is the consumers first point of contact with the company, there is no interaction between ground crew and passengers, I'm fairly sure some passengers are completely ignorant to their existence.

To be fair, outsourcing obviously comes with the expectation of a certain standard of service. Some companies appear to care less about this, however a diligent operation will ensure outsourcing does not result in any quantifiable drop in service quality.

Scar001 · 18-05-2021 11:11pm

corkonion wrote: »

Its a national disgrace, irish politicians should hang their heads in shame, still no iota of a plan to restart some form of travel, absolute cowards, I for one will not forget.

Is Michael McNamara the only Clare TD with a voice in the Dail ??
I've heard feck all from the other three since they've been elected.

Deagol · 18-05-2021 11:12pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

No it doesn't always mean that, that's why I said where it is cheaper/more efficient.

I accept the call center analogy, however I'm not sure it's applicable. A call center is the consumers first point of contact with the company, there is no interaction between ground crew and passengers, I'm fairly sure some passengers are completely ignorant to their existence.

To be fair, outsourcing obviously comes with the expectation of a certain standard of service. Some companies appear to care less about this, however a diligent operation will ensure outsourcing does not result in any quantifiable drop in service quality.

Most regional airports use agents for airlines. For instance, I fly with BA from Aberdeen regularly but the ground staff there are a local agent (Dalcross).

finbarrk · 19-05-2021 1:40pm

Clareman wrote: »

Terrible news as this means that there won't be anymore early morning flights to Heathrow.

The most important flight of them all.

RocketRaccoon · 19-05-2021 1:57pm

finbarrk wrote: »

The most important flight of them all.

It really isn't/wasn't.

corkonion · 19-05-2021 9:28pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

It really isn't/wasn't.

For international and business connectivity, it really was.

Brennans Row · 20-05-2021 12:00am

Aer Lingus CEO says there is no strategic intent to reduce connectivity (RTE)

The Chief Executive of Aer Lingus has told the Minister for Transport that there is no strategic intent to reduce connectivity at either Cork or Shannon airports.

This is despite yesterday's decision by the airline to close its cabin crew base in Shannon and lay-off cabin crew and ground handling staff in Cork from September to November.

Eamon Ryan and Junior Transport Minister Hildegarde Naughton met the airline's new CEO, Lynne Embleton today to discuss the developments.

The ministers also met CEO of Shannon Group, Mary Considine, and CEO of Cork Airport, Niall McCarthy, while Minister Naughton also met unions and employer representative groups today.

Brennans Row · 20-05-2021 6:59am

Aer Lingus cuts highlight urgent need for a restart plan for Irish aviation (Irish Times)

Aer Lingus’s decision to permanently close its crew base in Shannon Airport, resulting in up to 81 redundancies, and to temporarily lay off ground staff there and employees in Cork Airport between September and November is a stark reminder of the state of the aviation industry right now and the lack of a restart plan from the Government.

The Aer Lingus decision is clearly a blow to the west of Ireland and no doubt questions will be asked as to why conditions weren’t attached to the €150 million loan given to Aer Lingus by the State around the turn of the year.

Of course, there could be other factors at play. Aer Lingus has been grumbling about its cost base in Shannon for many years and the pandemic provides good cover to tackle the unions on this issue.

Brian Bowden, Aer Lingus chief people officer, told Tánaiste Leo Varadkar in a notice of the likely job losses that Shannon had been inefficient and out of line with the market for a significant period of time.

And yet, in February 2020, Aer Lingus announced the introduction of a new Shannon-based aircraft and brought forward by one month the return of its seasonal service to JFK in New York.

In addition, new services to Barcelona and Paris-Charles de Gaulle were announced for Shannon, which would have resulted in Aer Lingus’s capacity there growing by 20 per cent.

“We are delighted to demonstrate our continued commitment to Shannon Airport and the wider region,” Aer Lingus’s then chief corporate affairs officer Donal Moriarty said at the time.

Flight crewing

Then the pandemic hit. And 15 months later, Aer Lingus is not currently flying from Shannon and hasn’t since March of last year. It lost more than €1.1 million a day in the first quarter of this year. The airline is being cagey about how flights will be crewed whenever it decides to resume flights from the Co Clare airport.

Before Covid, it was operating transatlantic services from Shannon (for most but not all of the year) and a regular service to Heathrow in London, a prime asset for the region that was lost in 2007 but restarted in 2009.

Will it resume these flights? What might happen to the prized Heathrow slots?

Aer Lingus also has a new chief executive, with Lynne Embleton, formerly of IAG cargo, taking on the role last year, although she has yet to move to Ireland. And it recently launched transatlantic services out of Manchester, a clear signal that its focus is not just on the island of Ireland.

RocketRaccoon · 20-05-2021 7:18am

For anyone interested, Ryanair will be restarting their flights on June 1st. 20 per week to begin with.

mdmix · 20-05-2021 10:09am

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

For anyone interested, Ryanair will be restarting their flights on June 1st. 20 per week to begin with.

gov.ie are advising all passengers must quarantine on return, regardless. Does anyone have any idea if exemptions are planned?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b4020-travelling-to-ireland-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

JamesBond2010 · 20-05-2021 1:58pm

Brennans Row wrote: »

Aer Lingus CEO says there is no strategic intent to reduce connectivity (RTE)

The Chief Executive of Aer Lingus has told the Minister for Transport that there is no strategic intent to reduce connectivity at either Cork or Shannon airports.

This is despite yesterday's decision by the airline to close its cabin crew base in Shannon and lay-off cabin crew and ground handling staff in Cork from September to November.

Eamon Ryan and Junior Transport Minister Hildegarde Naughton met the airline's new CEO, Lynne Embleton today to discuss the developments.

The ministers also met CEO of Shannon Group, Mary Considine, and CEO of Cork Airport, Niall McCarthy, while Minister Naughton also met unions and employer representative groups today.

bla bla bla more bull**** always the same all talk & no action, they dont give a **** as along as they are paid.

Brennans Row · 21-05-2021 6:48am

Shannon-Heathrow Connectivity

The Aer Lingus announcement will cast serious doubts over the retention of early morning and late evening flights to Heathrow which are essential to business connectivity (Michael McNamara TD).

Michael McNamara TD says that continued lockdown made Shannon a "cold place" for aviation, leading to Aer Lingus job losses. (GriptMedia)

Joint Committee on Transport and Communications – The challenges facing the International Aviation Sector

Here the full recording . . . .

Brennans Row · 21-05-2021 7:30am

Aviation interests let fly at Government over state of industry and lack of recovery plan (Irish Times)

Blame for Aer Lingus closure at Shannon and the parlous state of the airline lies at Government’s doorstep.

Barry O'Halloran’s long article exposes that Ireland does not have a plan for the aviation sector to exit this Covid-19 pandemic.

ctlsleh · 21-05-2021 9:10pm

Scar001 wrote: »

Is Michael McNamara the only Clare TD with a voice in the Dail ??
I've heard feck all from the other three since they've been elected.

I have emailed all of them, I would encourage others to do the same. I have outlined not only the personal
Impact which will likely be the requirement to move to Cork or Dublin, but also the impact on the wider economy and strategy for the region as a whole, or lack thereof

Cosmo Kramer · 21-05-2021 9:31pm

They can't have it both ways. All of your other TDs are either part of a government that brought in ridiculously draconian travel restrictions or part of an opposition that goaded them into doing it. This is the outcome - they've given EI the opening they've been looking for for years to get themselves out of SNN and EI have jumped at the chance.

It can't be a case of no travel for anyone but another massive bailout to keep the good times rolling down in Shannon. This is the real world and the money is needed elsewhere now. Your TDs have created this situation and are in no position to demand anything at this point beyond keeping the lights on so that the airport can rebuild at a more appropriate scale for a regional airport once the pandemic is over.

RocketRaccoon · 21-05-2021 10:12pm

ctlsleh wrote: »

I have emailed all of them, I would encourage others to do the same. I have outlined not only the personal
Impact which will likely be the requirement to move to Cork or Dublin, but also the impact on the wider economy and strategy for the region as a whole, or lack thereof

I admire your moxy but its an absolute waste of time.

Aer Lingus have less than zero interest in Shannon, covid was the perfect opportunity for them to pull out of Shannon. Please take the word of me and other airport workers on this.

What do people expect here? Email tds in the hope someone in power can force Aer Lingus to stay where they don't want to be? What's the end game on this? They're gone, good riddance to them. Of course I feel bad for the many staff members I have gotten to know over the years but as a company, good luck.

Now the people in power should open discussions with Michael OLeary, ask him what he wants and let him in to the airport properly and get the whole place off its knees. Couple that with the American carriers and the airport would be in a much better place than it has been in the last few years.

Brennans Row · 21-05-2021 11:06pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

. . . They're gone, good riddance to them. . . .

. . . . . Now the people in power should open discussions with Michael OLeary, ask him what he wants and let him in to the airport properly and get the whole place off its knees. . . .

Bitterness won’t solve anything.

Paying Ryanair to fly from Shannon is not sustainable.

Shannon will have to hit the reset button and work aggressively harder to keep Aer Lingus flying from here eventhough the base will be gone for now.

finbarrk · 21-05-2021 11:07pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

It really isn't/wasn't.

I’m curious how you come to that conclusion. In my opinion, it’s the vital route

Brennans Row · 21-05-2021 11:07pm

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1395483873375567876

RocketRaccoon · 21-05-2021 11:17pm

Brennans Row wrote: »

Bitterness won’t solve anything.

Paying Ryanair to fly from Shannon is not sustainable.

Shannon will have to hit the reset button and work aggressively harder to keep Aer Lingus flying from here eventhough the base will be gone for now.

It's not bitterness at all, I have zero attachment to Aer Lingus. Over the years I've seen the complete contempt they hold Shannon in and people fawning over them and the handful of overpriced routes they provide just doesn't make sense to me. They pulled the LHR route years ago and for some reason that was forgotten about, that was them showing their hand in regards to their feelings on Shannon.

RocketRaccoon · 21-05-2021 11:22pm

finbarrk wrote: »

I’m curious how you come to that conclusion. In my opinion, it’s the vital route

Meh, I've had this discussion here before with a poster(I can't remember their username). I was told the average Aer Lingus passenger spends more in the airport than a Ryanair one so it's more important to the airport. Zero evidence of that of course but that didn't stop they hyperbole being pushed by that particular poster.

I've worked in the airport since 2006 up until covid struck last year, I've seen everything over the years. Trust me when I say that a few routes to Heathrow aren't what have kept the doors open in Shannon.

Brennans Row · 21-05-2021 11:30pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

It's not bitterness at all, I have zero attachment to Aer Lingus. Over the years I've seen the complete contempt they hold Shannon in and people fawning over them and the handful of overpriced routes they provide just doesn't make sense to me. They pulled the LHR route years ago and for some reason that was forgotten about, that was them showing their hand in regards to their feelings on Shannon.

According to Willie Walsh, the Aer Lingus Heathrow route is very profitable for them.

14 Months ago they were about to deploy new aircraft for their Transatlantic routes and launch two new routes to Paris and Barcelona.

If they still intend to fly from Shannon then let us not throw the baby out with bath water.

RocketRaccoon · 21-05-2021 11:38pm

Brennans Row wrote: »

According to Willie Walsh, the Aer Lingus Heathrow route is very profitable for them.

14 Months ago they were about to deploy new aircraft for their Transatlantic routes and launch two new routes to Paris and Barcelona.

If they still intend to fly from Shannon then let us not throw the baby out with bath water.

I don't doubt the route is very profitable FOR THEM. Its the fact people laud it as the most important/profitable route for the airport I'll never understand.

For instance, a large US military aircraft brings in multiples of what the LHR EI does. This is a fact.

marno21 · 21-05-2021 11:55pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I don't doubt the route is very profitable FOR THEM. Its the fact people laud it as the most important/profitable route for the airport I'll never understand.

For instance, a large US military aircraft brings in multiples of what the LHR EI does. This is a fact.

It's not just the airport though. The LHR connectivity is pivotal for companies and people in the area for connections. Same as LHR/AMS out of Cork. It's all connections and the odd London business trip.

JCX BXC · 22-05-2021 1:28am

I don't agree that bending over for Ryanair yet again is the answer here, how many times has the airport had a sour divorce?

The latest time we did that was 2014, and while they didn't pull out horrifically as they did before, several routes were cut such as Paris, Berlin, Munich etc. They also chased out the Aer Lingus Regional base, taking with it 3 return flights a day to Manchester, 2 a day to Birmingham and 1 each to Bristol and Edinburgh, arguably doing more damage than benefit their arrival brought.

We were getting into a good place pre-pandemic, we had gained routes to Paris and Barcelona with Aer Lingus, A321's which would have made the US routes much more sustainable, Vienna with Ryanair, a 787 on the Philly route.

ctlsleh · 22-05-2021 2:10am

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I admire your moxy but its an absolute waste of time.

Aer Lingus have less than zero interest in Shannon, covid was the perfect opportunity for them to pull out of Shannon. Please take the word of me and other airport workers on this.

What do people expect here? Email tds in the hope someone in power can force Aer Lingus to stay where they don't want to be? What's the end game on this? They're gone, good riddance to them. Of course I feel bad for the many staff members I have gotten to know over the years but as a company, good luck.

Now the people in power should open discussions with Michael OLeary, ask him what he wants and let him in to the airport properly and get the whole place off its knees. Couple that with the American carriers and the airport would be in a much better place than it has been in the last few years.

The point is, if you want FDI and investment in the region, you need connectivity. No connectivity, no investment in the region, companies will go to Dublin or Cork. People like myself that need to travel, will need to relocate. And the region and local businesses as a whole will suffer.

Nobody that has to travel to europe on a regular basis uses Ryanair, it’s just too difficult to connect, it’s so much easier to connect through Heathrow, so unless we get BA or someone else, businesses and people that rely on SNN connectivity will probably be looking elsewhere. Just like Aer Lingus being a commercial decision, businesses and individuals will do the same and pull out…….that’s unfortunate and for that reason, if TTDs don’t build a connectivity strategy for the region, it will continue to be left behind by Dublin, Cork and even Galway……for a region that was a leader for FDI 25 years ago, it’s a sad demise

Cookiemunster · 22-05-2021 7:46am

marno21 wrote: »

It's not just the airport though. The LHR connectivity is pivotal for companies and people in the area for connections. Same as LHR/AMS out of Cork. It's all connections and the odd London business trip.

That's very much over egged. How does Galway get so much FDI without an international airport on its doorstep? Two hours to Dub is nothing for someone in the US.

The Shannon based US company I work for regularly sends staff via Dub to the US and vice versa because its cheaper.

Also before the pandemic, Ryanair had daily flights to Gatwick and Stansted. Heathrow isn't the be all and end all.

Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

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