Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

smash · 11-11-2011 4:08pm

It's pretty black and white.

"A levy of up to 2 per cent on all non-life and health insurance polices is to be introduced to fund Quinn Insurance."
- http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0913/breaking29.html

So everyone is paying for Quinn insurance because Sean Quinn took a gamble that didn't pay off. Lets forget the 2.8b or the personal debt or anything like that for a minute. He took a gamble with his business, it failed, we're all paying for it.

SEPT 23 1989 · 11-11-2011 4:08pm

He is an enemy of the State

jmayo · 11-11-2011 4:11pm

Lemlin wrote: »

I must of missed where Seanie Fitz and Fingers Fingleton were entrepreneurs who started up their own companies' and actually created jobs.

Ehh if you bothered doing a bit of reading or research you would see how seanie got a job in a small little bank in Dublin and grew it to be the third biggest in Ireland.
Now in later years it was a fudge when they went balls out lending to developers and got involved in dodgy deals with the likes of quinn.
But somewhere alone the way there he created jobs.
You do know you don't have to just start your own company to be an entrepreneur you can take over a small operation and grow it. :rolleyes:

Seen as you are form Cavan I can see your sycophancy for the quinns.
Just enjoy watching them drive by or rather fly by whilst you watch the ars* fall out of all the local state services. :rolleyes:

Galtee wrote: »

I don't understand.

Stating the obvious me thinks.

Galtee wrote: »

explain it to me how Quinns dealings with Anglo are costing us other than increased premiums which as previously mentioned have been going up over the last 4 years anyway.

You have the internet it appears so why not do a bit of reading.
It might expand that mind of yours.

Ever premium has an added charge due to quinn.
Can you get that little fact ?

Galtee wrote: »

Oh, So why have anglo taken a 49% stake in quinn group and why are they still pursuing him seperately for the 2.3 billion?

Ah ffs.
And I always wonder why I laugh when people claim we have a brilliant education system. :rolleyes:

Lemlin · 11-11-2011 4:12pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

He needn't worry.
The taxpayer will surely be forced to pay for his mistakes. No chance of those who screwed up paying for their own mess, eh?

I agree he should pay for his own mess. This mess of trying to syphon off different properties is just further damaging his reputation and I think the man still suffers from the poor advisers that he did over recent years.

However, let's remember that at its height the Quinn Group and Quinn Insurance had 5,000 people working in Ireland. Can you imagine how much tax those people were paying a month? That's 40 years of employees paying taxes to the government.

He also employed people throughout the previous recession in the 80s and there are still people with jobs in the present recession.

These people are paying tax. They are not claiming welfare. Because the man created jobs.

As well as that, the Group themselves reckon the Group paid 1 billion in tax over those years. The figure wouldn't surprise me.

So let's not say the man took everything and ran. He created jobs, kept people off welfare (and still does) paid taxes to the state and has left jobs behind.

Galtee · 11-11-2011 4:15pm

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh if you bothered doing a bit of reading or research you would see how seanie got a job in a small little bank in Dublin and grew it to be the third biggest in Ireland.
Now in later years it was a fudge when they went balls out lending to dodgy operaations such as Quinn group.
But somewhere alone the way there he created jobs.
You do know you don't have to just start your own company to be an entrepreneur you can take over a small operation and grow it. :rolleyes:

Seen as you are form Cavan I can see your sycophancy for the quinns.
Just enjoy watching them drive by or rather fly by whilst you watch the ars* fall out of all the local state services. :rolleyes:

You have the internet it appears so why not do a bit of reading.
It might expand that mind of yours.

Ever premium has an added charge due to quinn.
Can you get that little fact.

Ah ffs.
And I always wonder why I laugh when people claim we have a brilliant education system. :rolleyes:

Maybe you could do with some of it if you have to wonder why you're laughing. :rolleyes:

Stiffler2 · 11-11-2011 4:17pm

To be quite Frank I hope Sean Quinn ***s in the next day or 2 of a horrible ***th. Yes that's right ***s

If I was running this country the man would be in jail and his assets seized regardless if they are in his familes name.

He gambled and lost 2.8billion euro, who has to pick up the tab, Me.
What does he do, moves his assets into his familes name and declares bankruptcy in Norhern Ireland, clearly a man with a conscious for the Irish Tax Payer.

He'll be back in business in a year.

Whole fu**n country is upside down. I think that Anders Brevik had the correct idea, unfortunately he just had the wrong country.

How entertaining it would be if I went home tonight, flicked on RTE News and saw that some maniac had walked into Leinster House / The Dáil and uzied all the politicians, at least that way we can start afresh.

tbh I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet but hopefully it will.

hatrickpatrick · 11-11-2011 4:19pm

Lemlin wrote: »

I agree he should pay for his own mess. This mess of trying to syphon off different properties is just further damaging his reputation and I think the man still suffers from the poor advisers that he did over recent years.

However, let's remember that at its height the Quinn Group and Quinn Insurance had 5,000 people working in Ireland. Can you imagine how much tax those people were paying a month? That's 40 years of employees paying taxes to the government.

He also employed people throughout the previous recession in the 80s and there are still people with jobs in the present recession.

These people are paying tax. They are not claiming welfare. Because the man created jobs.

As well as that, the Group themselves reckon the Group paid 1 billion in tax over those years. The figure wouldn't surprise me.

So let's not say the man took everything and ran. He created jobs, kept people off welfare (and still does) paid taxes to the state and has left jobs behind.

I wasn't implying anything of the sort, I am simply opposed to every single cent of taxpayer's money which goes to private financial institutions. It's their problem, not mine. Why the hell should I pay for their mistakes? It has absolutely nothing to do with me whatsoever, I never had any dealings with them nor did I ever intend to.

Those involved can sort it out themselves - stop putting the entire country's population on the hook for the gambling idiocy of the few.

monkeybutter · 11-11-2011 4:21pm

jmayo wrote: »

Ah ffs.
And I always wonder why I laugh when people claim we have a brilliant education system. :rolleyes:

Ha ha, you can't blame the education system for this guy, I mean it thought him to speak, that is a bloody miracle.

Paparazzo · 11-11-2011 4:24pm

syklops wrote: »

We lost a lot of things during the boom, but its nice to see we didnt lose everything. Things like begrudgery and the delight we have at seeing people who tried, fail.

Stay proud lazygal.

"begrudgery", probably the most misused word in Ireland. If you don't like anyone with money for any reason you're a "begrudger".
It's like calming that if you don't like Dr. Dre that you're racist.

papajimsmooth · 11-11-2011 4:27pm

If you were in his situation you would do the exact thing. Why would he give it all back, this isnt a disney movie.

Wertz · 11-11-2011 4:28pm

I think Quinn was a once great businessman that much like the rest of the country got greedy and relied on poor adivce, particularly in relation to his purchase of anglo share stake (I hoinestly believe he was conned here through an intricate plot to relieve him of some of his cash rich company) and is ultimately paying the price (well not really, given the familial transfers of wealth and property).

His story reminds me of Aesop's fable of the dog with the bone, spying his reflection in the river to grab the other dog's bone and loosing his own.

The whole thing surrounding the insurance group and subsequent bailout doesn't sit well with me though.

But how many of you on here have run such a successful empire for as long? One sure thing, none of those populating the Dáil the past 20 yrs including the current crop have managed it...

As for bankruptcy...anyone willingly declaring it here is a far bigger fool that Sean Quinn ever was...12 yrs? F*ck that...

hatrickpatrick · 11-11-2011 4:31pm

smash wrote: »

It's pretty black and white.

"A levy of up to 2 per cent on all non-life and health insurance polices is to be introduced to fund Quinn Insurance."
- http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0913/breaking29.html

So everyone is paying for Quinn insurance because Sean Quinn took a gamble that didn't pay off. Lets forget the 2.8b or the personal debt or anything like that for a minute. He took a gamble with his business, it failed, we're all paying for it.

What is the justification for this, if any? Why not let him collapse and anyone who chose to gamble with him, it's their own tough luck that it didn't work out?

Why does the free market only apply to ordinary people? Why should people like this get a bailout, but NOT homeowners being foreclosed upon?

Do we live in a society of equals or don't we? If not, get me on the next plane out of here thanks.

smash · 11-11-2011 4:34pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What is the justification for this, if any? Why not let him collapse and anyone who chose to gamble with him, it's their own tough luck that it didn't work out?

Why does the free market only apply to ordinary people? Why should people like this get a bailout, but NOT homeowners being foreclosed upon?

Do we live in a society of equals or don't we? If not, get me on the next plane out of here thanks.

It's worse than that... look at how the family held on to the assets: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/quinns-traded-euro10m-firm-for-laptop-court-told-2902835.html

Turnstyle · 11-11-2011 4:41pm

the people who will defend Quinn are probably the same type that voted for Sean Gallagher, idiots

"ah sur he created jobs, no bother sur" let him off with one of the biggest frauds ever committed in the state at our own cost.. :rolleyes:

how long before he is on the late late

Laois_Man · 11-11-2011 4:45pm

Yeah right - Quinn is bankrupt!

How much is in his wife's bank accounts tho - and where did it all come from?

The system is a complete and utter farce!!

gerryo777 · 11-11-2011 4:47pm

Remember when he did an interview with RTE, I think and was banging on about how he didn't gamble, only plays a few hands of cards with his mates the odd time and would only play for penny's/cents...

Some gambling done with Anglo......

Tipp Man · 11-11-2011 4:50pm

Wertz wrote: »

I think Quinn was a once great businessman that much like the rest of the country got greedy and relied on poor adivce, particularly in relation to his purchase of anglo share stake (I hoinestly believe he was conned here through an intricate plot to relieve him of some of his cash rich company) and is ultimately paying the price (well not really, given the familial transfers of wealth and property).

His story reminds me of Aesop's fable of the dog with the bone, spying his reflection in the river to grab the other dog's bone and loosing his own.

The whole thing surrounding the insurance group and subsequent bailout doesn't sit well with me though.

But how many of you on here have run such a successful empire for as long? One sure thing, none of those populating the Dáil the past 20 yrs including the current crop have managed it...

As for bankruptcy...anyone willingly declaring it here is a far bigger fool that Sean Quinn ever was...12 yrs? F*ck that...

Well this is it in a nutshell

He was a great businessman till he got involved in Anglo - a deal that turned sour very rapidly and a deal that i am sure he wishes he had never even dreamed of - nevermind actually gotten involved in

However to see posts like they wished him dead and stuff - well i find that a bit sick actually. The vast majority of successful entreprenuers go out of business several times before it works out for them. Its about taking risks - sometimes those risks fail - sometimes they win. This clearly failed

What i am not happy about is the means that these guys have for transferring their assets to family when the **** hits the fan. This breaks the risk reward relationship which is wrong imo. Although the risk reward relationship is broken throughout the irish economy it is just we are dealing with bigger numbers in this instance

Sticky_Fingers · 11-11-2011 4:50pm

I'd laugh at some of the comments supporting this huckster if it wasn't so pathetic, some people on here must be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome if they think that this fella was a decent ol' skin. The man has cost the people of this country a fortune over his own shady dealings and his Del Boy approach to company finances.

I have no problem with people who fail in business, they should at least be applauded for having the balls to ante up but I have zero respect for the chancers who try to weasel their way out of all responsibility and make other people pay through the nose for their greed.

In any sane country this guy would be finished in business for the rest of his life but knowing the Irish love for a rogue (Haughey, Beverly Cooper Flynn, Pa Flynn, Lowry et al) I'd predict this guy will be back in operation shortly and fleecing the people once again.

gerryo777 · 11-11-2011 4:57pm

If quinn paid back what he owes to this state it would cover most of the budget 'adjustments' that are going to be made in december.... The poor will get poorer but seany will still be living in his mansion up there in cavan!!!!
Banana Republic, never truer than it is now!!

Turnstyle · 11-11-2011 4:58pm

Tipp Man wrote: »

The vast majority of successful entreprenuers go out of business several times before it works out for them. Its about taking risks - sometimes those risks fail - sometimes they win. This clearly failed

What i am not happy about is the means that these guys have for transferring their assets to family when the **** hits the fan. This breaks the risk reward relationship which is wrong imo. Although the risk reward relationship is broken throughout the irish economy it is just we are dealing with bigger numbers in this instance

you do understand that the reason things imploded with Quinn was not just due to an unfortunate downturn in business etc
Quinn fraudulently secured borrowings (for a gamble on Anglo stocks) on insurance reserves....

Putting all your eggs in one basket was not exactly a smart move either for a so called business genius...

DB10 · 11-11-2011 5:04pm

A local councillor told me last week, he heard Quinn will be standing in the next European election or general election, and word on the ground is he may even top the poll.

He told me its possible that when this government falls, that Quinn, Gallagher and 2 SF tds could be elected in the constituency. Nearly was 2 SF Tds last time as well.

Tipp Man · 11-11-2011 5:09pm

Turnstyle wrote: »

you do understand that the reason things imploded with Quinn was not just due to an unfortunate downturn in business etc
Quinn fraudulently secured borrowings (for a gamble on Anglo stocks) on insurance reserves....

Putting all your eggs in one basket was not exactly a smart move either for a so called business genius...

I know that perfectly well thank you - which is why i clearly said that he was a good businessman until he got involved in the Anglo deal. No Anglo deal then no problem in insurance company then no problem in quinn group

GetWithIt · 11-11-2011 5:13pm

DB10 wrote: »

A local councillor told me last week, he heard Quinn will be standing in the next European election or general election, and word on the ground is he may even top the poll.

He told me its possible that when this government falls, that Quinn, Gallagher and 2 SF tds could be elected in the constituency. Nearly was 2 SF Tds last time as well.

Firstly, you can't be a TD if you're bankrupt so he was talking out of his hole.

I'm not sure if the same rule applies to those declared bankrupt in another jurisdiction, or if it still stands once that person has finished the bankruptcy process, but I would imagine running for public office would be well down his list of priorities. And even if it was, his eligibility would be highly doubtful.

Gophur · 11-11-2011 5:13pm

Sean Quinn took €400m out of the Quinn Group for his 5 children. That's €80m each.

He could start by giving that money back.

The beatification of SQ is nauseating. He is personally the cause of €2.8B of the debt the Irish taxpayer has to pay back, yet so many of the blind and stupid followers believe he is still whiter than white.

hatrickpatrick · 11-11-2011 5:16pm

I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?

DB10 · 11-11-2011 5:20pm

GetWithIt wrote: »

Firstly, you can't be a TD if you're bankrupt so he was talking out of his hole.

I'm not sure if the same rule applies to those declared bankrupt in another jurisdiction, or if it still stands once that person has finished the bankruptcy process, but I would imagine running for public office would be well down his list of priorities. And even if it was, his eligibility would be highly doubtful.

His bankruptcy ruling would be up in one year, due to law in Northern Ireland. There wont be an election in that time.

His eligibility is perfectly feasible.

DB10 · 11-11-2011 5:21pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?

Blame Fianna Gael and the ending Fianna Fail government. You voted for them, so you cant complain.

Gophur · 11-11-2011 5:21pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?

5,000 people on the dole would cost the taxpayer €50m per year.

As for the €2.8B ? That was as a result of the Bank guarantee given by Brian(s) Cowen and Lenihan.

GetWithIt · 11-11-2011 5:24pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?

The insurance levy is to pay the shortfall arising from losses that will be incurred by insurance policies written by Quinn Insurance. If this didn't exist those policy holders would be screwed.

The 2.8B is indeed owed to a Bank and shouldn't concern us. Unfortunately that bank is Anglo, has been nationalized, and it's liabilities are now ours. Thanks Cowan, Lenihan, Cardiff.

Gophur · 11-11-2011 5:27pm

DB10 wrote: »

Blame Fianna Gael and the ending Fianna Fail government. You voted for them, so you cant complain.

Who are Fianna Gael?

If you mean Fine Gael, how are they responsible? (And why not include Labour, or the Greens?)

Turnstyle · 11-11-2011 5:28pm

Tipp Man wrote: »

I know that perfectly well thank you - which is why i clearly said that he was a good businessman until he got involved in the Anglo deal. No Anglo deal then no problem in insurance company then no problem in quinn group

good maybe.. but definitely not "great", i was never a fan of Quinn and how they done business, they rode young drivers sideways here for years and somehow got away with it. I suspect his involvement with the gang of lads started well before before that deal was struck up with Anglo

DB10 · 11-11-2011 5:29pm

Gophur wrote: »

Who are Fianna Gael?

If you mean Fine Gael, how are they responsible? (And why not include Labour, or the Greens?)

Sorry I was mistaken there re Fianna Gael, the two parties are so similar it's hard to notice a difference.

Fianna Gael have continued with this bailout of Anglo and, have introduced slave labour in the form of the job bridge scheme.

Gophur · 11-11-2011 5:33pm

DB10 wrote: »

Sorry I was mistaken there re Fianna Gael, the two parties are so similar it's hard to notice a difference.

Fianna Gael have continued with this bailout of Anglo and, have introduced slave labour in the form of the job bridge scheme.

Still cannot type "Fine", eh?

I'd blame Labour for everything, if I was you!

Annabella1 · 11-11-2011 5:34pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?

The problem is that Quinn took a billion + euro loan out from Anglo to have a Contracts for Difference punt and lost it all....and we own Anglo which means the taxpayer is on the hook for it all.

The Quinn Insurance debt has been introduced as a levy on all of us whenever we take out an insurance policy. I'm not sure what this debt amounts to.

I really can't see how anyone can defend this.Think of the unnecessary lives lost through hospital waiting lists,large class sizes etc which this money could have allieviated.

How can he sleep in his bed??

Wertz · 11-11-2011 5:35pm

Turnstyle wrote: »

good maybe.. but definitely not "great", i was never a fan of Quinn and how they done business, they rode young drivers sideways here for years and somehow got away with it. I suspect his involvement with the gang of lads started well before before that deal was struck up with Anglo

As regards insurance, they may well have fleeced young drivers...but to many they were the only ones willing to take the chance on them.

As for Anglo, I think he was sold a pup.
F*ck me the whole country was sold one regarding Anglo.

I was never in his employ, don't hail from Cavan, but I did see many of his companies and products on sites throughot the boom...like it or not, his business models worked (including his insurance company)... one big gamble based on dodgy advice (IMO) from a bunch like Seanie Fitz and the rest, was enough to rip it from his grasp.
I'm as unhappy as anyone that his debts get passed onto us all, but that's not his fault alone...blame previous government and company laws and a whole crooked undercurrent in our fine little State.

Tipp Man · 11-11-2011 5:35pm

Turnstyle wrote: »

good maybe.. but definitely not "great", i was never a fan of Quinn and how they done business, they rode young drivers sideways here for years and somehow got away with it. I suspect his involvement with the gang of lads started well before before that deal was struck up with Anglo

Before the Anglo deal he was very successful in several lines of business and had become very very wealthy. Leaving aside personal feelings towards him he was extremely successful. There are very few people who are successful at 1 line of business nevermind having several independant successful businesses. This country needs a few more pre Anglo Quinns right now to help get us out of this mess

Regarding young drivers - there was more than his insurance company to deal with and also maybe if young drivers actually coped on a bit they wouldn't have to pay such extortionate premiums but thats a discussion that has nothing to do with quinn

ziggy · 11-11-2011 5:35pm

This post has been deleted.

DB10 · 11-11-2011 5:40pm

Gophur wrote: »

Still cannot type "Fine", eh?

I'd blame Labour for everything, if I was you!

You sound like a typical Fianna Gael voter. Fianna Gael is what they will call the party when they merge in a few years.

Turnstyle · 11-11-2011 5:45pm

Wertz wrote: »

one big gamble based on dodgy advice (IMO) from a bunch like Seanie Fitz and the rest, was enough to rip it from his grasp.
I'm as unhappy as anyone that his debts get passed onto us all, but that's not his fault alone...blame previous government and company laws and a whole crooked undercurrent in our fine little State.

Sorry but his actions are inexcusable, he committed a massive fraud based on greed and the blame lies solely with him, not bad advisors or the previous government, him.... and he should be locked up imo along with fitzpatrick and the like, sure we need entrepreneurs but lessons need to be learned if we are to progress

Lemlin · 11-11-2011 6:00pm

Gophur wrote: »

Sean Quinn took €400m out of the Quinn Group for his 5 children. That's €80m each.

He could start by giving that money back.

The beatification of SQ is nauseating. He is personally the cause of €2.8B of the debt the Irish taxpayer has to pay back, yet so many of the blind and stupid followers believe he is still whiter than white.

I don't believe the man is whiter than white. Far from it. He did plenty wrong and, like you, I will be paying for it through levies and the various taxes we pay now to cover the bank bailouts.

What I can recognise however is that the man did plenty of good as well as all the bad of the past few years.

Like I said, yes we are paying back 2.8 billion but what about all the jobs he has created, taxes that have been paid from his employees and companies over the years, and still are being? What about the welfare that has been saved because these people have jobs? I don't think this should be forgotten.

Katekat · 11-11-2011 6:02pm

DB10 wrote: »

You sound like a typical Fianna Gael voter. Fianna Gael is what they will call the party when they merge in a few years.

Even though it was Fianna Fail that nationalised Anglo and Fine Gael and labour has to clean up the mess left behind by Fianna Fail and we the tax payer are going to be paying for this? SQ was obviously in bed with Seannie Fitz and the like, this is a man who has ran one of the biggest irish companies and he did not have the cope on that the deal with Anglo was suss? I don't think so, he knew exactly what he was doing, look at how his assets are now so well hidden amongst the family and their shells of companies.

RATM · 11-11-2011 6:02pm

It's gas to see how thick some Irish people can be.

Just a few weeks ago Harry Crosbie was on the Brendan o'Connor show talking about his debts and NAMA. He let it slip that he is getting a write down of 50% on his loans of €500m. That means the taxpayer is bailing him out to the tune of €250m- every man woman and child in this country is GIVING Harry Crosbie €125 to bail him out. Yet in the very same interview he went crowing on about raising €2m to help build the new Children's Hospital. The audience had the wool totally pulled over their eyes- they were applauding this failed businessman at the end of the interview. Applauding someone who's debts on the taxpayer could have paid for ten children's hospitals.

Now we have Sean Quinn and his poor mouth story while he is shifting assets of €800m to Russia and Eastern Europe where his army of lawyers know he'll never be touched. During all his time in insurance Quinn was nothing more than a gambler. He didn't employ a single actuary or risk assessor and all he was doing was gambling, just like with Anglo. Yet people in this country see him as some sort of demi-god, even though they are paying for his failure via the insurance levy.

I don't think the employees of the Quinn group are going to see him as a demi-god when they realise that Sean gambled their pension fund and the new owners ain't going to honour them. Might be a bit of a wake-up call for them while Sean sips margeritas in Bermuda.

Turnstyle · 11-11-2011 6:10pm

RATM wrote: »

It's gas to see how thick some Irish people can be.

thick as planks.. given the results of the latest elections for presidency and constitutional change i think at the next election there should be a pre entry IQ test

Howjoe1 · 11-11-2011 6:31pm

Can someone answer my two question?

The legal action being taken by IRBC (Anglo) against Quinn & his wife is listed for an initial hearing in the Commercial Court on the 14th November.

1. Does his actions of declaring himself bankrupt in the UK today (11th November) mean that the hearing next Monday does not go ahead?

2. or, does it go ahead but he has basically given the two fingers to the IRBC (and the taxpayers) by declaring he is bankrupt and will pay nothing?

Doc Ruby · 11-11-2011 6:31pm

skelliser wrote: »

this is open to everyone here btw.
There is nothing to stop anyone from ireland going to the UK and declaring bankrupt.

all aboard!!!

This is true, you can get out from under your mortgage in a year or so in the UK, as far as I know. You'll still lose the house but at least your income won't be garnished for the next 15 years.

Howjoe1 · 11-11-2011 6:39pm

Doc Ruby wrote: »

This is true, you can get out from under your mortgage in a year or so in the UK, as far as I know. You'll still lose the house but at least your income won't be garnished for the next 15 years.

So will he lose his mansion in Cavan? that btw he has an outstanding home improvement loan of €3m with IRBC.

jmayo · 11-11-2011 7:16pm

Galtee wrote: »

Maybe you could do with some of it if you have to wonder why you're laughing. :rolleyes:

I know, listening to people like you in fact should make me cry rather than laugh.

papajimsmooth wrote: »

If you were in his situation you would do the exact thing. Why would he give it all back, this isnt a disney movie.

And I bet you are problably down the pub complaining that they will be cutting your dole, increasing your tax or demanding more money off you. :rolleyes:
The sh** that quinn has pulled isn't just a stroke against some mythical system, it is against you, me and the rest of us that have to live in this place.

Wertz wrote: »

I think Quinn was a once great businessman that much like the rest of the country got greedy and relied on poor adivce, particularly in relation to his purchase of anglo share stake (I hoinestly believe he was conned here through an intricate plot to relieve him of some of his cash rich company) and is ultimately paying the price (well not really, given the familial transfers of wealth and property).

His story reminds me of Aesop's fable of the dog with the bone, spying his reflection in the river to grab the other dog's bone and loosing his own.

The whole thing surrounding the insurance group and subsequent bailout doesn't sit well with me though.

But how many of you on here have run such a successful empire for as long? One sure thing, none of those populating the Dáil the past 20 yrs including the current crop have managed it...

He was so successful and so great at running an empire for 20 years, yet he was conned by a couple of smart Dublin bankers.
FFS pull the other one it has bells on it.

As you alluded to your doggy analogy.
He got very greedy and shure why not when he knew that the bank would lend him a chunk of the money to gamble.
He might even have known if it didn't work out some other rich guys would help come to the rescue and shure if it all went t*ts up the taxpayers would foot the bill.
Shure wasn't it a great win win chance for him.
Except suddenly a non insider johnny foreigner was put into the top position in IFSRA and suddenly he got his cash cow company taken off him for the dodgy sh** he had been pulling.

Remember all those politicans, the likes of ned o'theif lambasting the regulator.

Tipp Man wrote: »

Well this is it in a nutshell

He was a great businessman till he got involved in Anglo - a deal that turned sour very rapidly and a deal that i am sure he wishes he had never even dreamed of - nevermind actually gotten involved in

However to see posts like they wished him dead and stuff - well i find that a bit sick actually. The vast majority of successful entreprenuers go out of business several times before it works out for them. Its about taking risks - sometimes those risks fail - sometimes they win. This clearly failed

Yeah but these other failed entrepreneurs don't leave the taxpayer with a near 3 billion bill.
Do they ?

DB10 wrote: »

His bankruptcy ruling would be up in one year, due to law in Northern Ireland. There wont be an election in that time.

His eligibility is perfectly feasible.

That would be ultimate kick in the nuts to the taxpayers of this country.

Gophur wrote: »

5,000 people on the dole would cost the taxpayer €50m per year.

As for the €2.8B ? That was as a result of the Bank guarantee given by Brian(s) Cowen and Lenihan.

Shure it's always someone elses fault in little old banana republic Ireland.

Kristopherus · 11-11-2011 7:24pm

Howjoe1 wrote: »

There are bankrupt ordinary citizens who struggle to put food on the table for their children.

Quinn through a complicated maze has put all his assets in family member names and moved them off shore.

Is he penniless? i don't believe so. Is he still a millionaire? i think so.

Is that €2.8 BILLION that is owed to Anglo Irish Bank, that State has gauranteed in our names as citizens, for which we suffer cuts to pay the Bond Holders, are we not to see I penny of it?

AM I feeling sorry for Quinn? No

Just another black day in this Banana Republic.

Well said. Quinn is quickly becoming a slippery eel, using every ruse he can find to avoid Anglo's claws. Sadly, all the court actions will have to be paid by Joe Public on behalf of Anglo and on behalf of Quinn because he's a bankrupt:mad::mad::mad:

Wertz · 11-11-2011 7:35pm

jmayo wrote: »

He was so successful and so great at running an empire for 20 years, yet he was conned by a couple of smart Dublin bankers.
FFS pull the other one it has bells on it.

As you alluded to your doggy analogy.
He got very greedy and shure why not when he knew that the bank would lend him a chunk of the money to gamble.
He might even have known if it didn't work out some other rich guys would help come to the rescue and shure if it all went t*ts up the taxpayers would foot the bill.
Shure wasn't it a great win win chance for him.
Except suddenly a non insider johnny foreigner was put into the top position in IFSRA and suddenly he got his cash cow company taken off him for the dodgy sh** he had been pulling.

Remember all those politicans, the likes of ned o'theif lambasting the regulator.

Point taken.
...and the point on him maybe knowing that if he failed on such a grand scale he'd get the bailout, is indeed a possibility.

But I still think that he was approached by some very clever Dublin bankers (them knowing he/his company was cash/asset rich, and that their bank was up the creek in the very near future) and got talked up to the point where he couldn't lose. Maybe I'm being naive in that but I don't see how a man that built such a business empire out of the cavan clay would risk it all on buying something intangible like a bunch of CFDs without not being conned to some extent. Those share options were bought with Quinn group cash/securities...when the share price went off a cliff the famous golden shower buy them up for less than 20% of their initial worth (them probably being worth even less than that) with a loan from the bank that is still outstanding...he tries to scramble back the loss by messing around with the insurance group...and as you said gets caught out by a suddenly fully conscious regulator's office.

Like I said maybe I'm being naive. Up until the anglo thing I don't think he had done much wrong...
I don't like the current series of events anymore than anyone in this country and far be it from me to defend him

ItsAWindUp · 11-11-2011 7:37pm

This country is so elitist when it comes to finance, it's incredible.

Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

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