186 / 187 Skilled Select (Permanent Nominated)

DeclanClune · 16-04-2013 1:02pm

statina wrote: »

Declan, does the 9 months just include after you submit the application? Its 10 months since my nomination was submitted. I applied through direct entry. Am so frustrated at this stage

Since visa application - but timeframes vary all the time.

rightyabe · 16-04-2013 1:22pm

DeclanClune wrote: »

HI guys,

We lodge a lot of these (and ENS) applications for people in Australia.
A lot of paperwork is required for the employer under the RSMS route compared for example with the 457 visa.

A skill assessment is required if you are applying via the direct entry stream. If you are applying for the RSMS visa under the temporary stream (applying on the back of a 457 visa) then no skill assessment is needed. But you need to work in Australia in your occupation for 2 years and at least 12 months with the current employer.

Regards,
Declan Clune

Hi Declan

Thank you for replying, as far as I was aware from my research any Occupation on ANZSCO skill level 1 or 2 you didnt need a skills assessment.

Here is a copy and paste from immi:

If you apply for the Direct entry stream, you must:

have qualification and skills relevant to your nominated occupation
have your skills assessed by the relevant assessing authority if you are nominated as a tradesperson and obtained your qualifications outside Australia
have competent English.

From this I understand you only need your skills assessed if you are a tradesperson. What am I missing? BTW I am a Estimator which is ANZSCO level 2.

DeclanClune · 16-04-2013 5:18pm

rightyabe wrote: »

Hi Declan

Thank you for replying, as far as I was aware from my research any Occupation on ANZSCO skill level 1 or 2 you didnt need a skills assessment.

Here is a copy and paste from immi:

If you apply for the Direct entry stream, you must:
have qualification and skills relevant to your nominated occupation

have your skills assessed by the relevant assessing authority if you are nominated as a tradesperson and obtained your qualifications outside Australia

have competent English.

From this I understand you only need your skills assessed if you are a tradesperson. What am I missing? BTW I am a Estimator which is ANZSCO level 2.

Hi guys

Just to clarify on this - it depends what stream you are applying under.

In short
ENS - requires a skill assessment
RSMS - requires qualifications and skills. If you are a tradesman, a skill assessment is also required.

Thanks
Declan Clune

If you apply for an ENS or RSMS visa through the Direct Entry stream, you will be assessed against the following additional criteria:

– if you are applying for an ENS visa under this stream you need a satisfactory skills assessment from an Australian assessing authority which is specified for your nominated occupation and you have at least 3 years of post-qualification work experience in your nominated occupation.

– if you are applying for an RSMS visa under this stream you need to have qualifications and skills relevant to your nominated occupation. If you are nominated to fill a trade occupation and possess overseas qualifications or rely on work experience, you must have a satisfactory skills assessment from the relevant assessing authority unless you are exempt.

hussey · 16-04-2013 10:12pm

Mod guys this thread is turning into the mega thread we have for skilled migration. Please use this for general questions. Declan has (along with others) a lot of those questions before.
No reason to have two open.

eoindoyle_syd · 16-04-2013 11:03pm

statina wrote: »

Declan, does the 9 months just include after you submit the application? Its 10 months since my nomination was submitted. I applied through direct entry. Am so frustrated at this stage

Hey Statina

I've submitted my nomination in January 2012 and was approved in Sept 2012. Sent in visa application 5 days later (25th Sept) and am still waiting.

So coming up to 15months in total and almost 7months for visa app!

Its bloody ridiculous at this stage. If you applied via a migration agent (decision ready) they are getting approved in as little as 3.5 months and we are being shafted to the back of the queue.

I emailed IMMI last week and they said they are currently processing 186 applications from July and August. Very vague though...

eoindoyle_syd · 16-04-2013 11:12pm

hussey wrote: »

Mod guys this thread is turning into the mega thread we have for skilled migration. Please use this for general questions. Declan has (along with others) a lot of those questions before.
No reason to have two open.

I think its valid keeping this thread open. The skilled migration "mega" thread is very muddled with all different types of visas and 30 pages. I found it difficult to find anything related to 186 visa time-frames.

I think its good to have a specific thread for 186/187 PR.

statina · 16-04-2013 11:29pm

Thanks Declan for replying, guess I'll keep on waiting!

Jees Eoin 15 months, you must be going mad! I rang DIAC as well and they said the same thing, they are processing July and August. When I asked them whereabout in July/August they are, they were unable to tell me. Here's hoping theyre towards end of August.

Im finding it very hard to keep patient at this stage. Had no idea it would take this length or definitely would have used an agent. I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing :rolleyes:

eoindoyle_syd · 18-04-2013 1:13am

statina wrote: »

Jees Eoin 15 months, you must be going mad! I rang DIAC as well and they said the same thing, they are processing July and August. When I asked them whereabout in July/August they are, they were unable to tell me. Here's hoping theyre towards end of August.

Im finding it very hard to keep patient at this stage. Had no idea it would take this length or definitely would have used an agent. I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know where you are at.

I've also found out that they have case officers working is different areas (eg. agents handling just Engineering applicants). So they appear to have varied timelines based on occupation. That's maybe why they cant tell you how far they are up to in July / Aug.

Its basically a whole mess and they seem to now be concentrating on DRC applications more than clearing the backlog. It is quite frustrating to see people being assessed (and approved) even though I applied a whole 12 months prior!

I am looking at doing a post grad course this term and cant apply until PR comes through. Only 3 weeks left until applications close. I never thought I would be still waiting.

Good luck with yours!

uglyjohn · 18-04-2013 7:40am

i probably should have said sooner.

My PR was granted about a month ago. That means 4 months from when my migration agent lodged it.

Civil Engineer going from 457 to EN 186.

Mellor · 18-04-2013 9:13am

eoindoyle_syd wrote: »

I think its valid keeping this thread open. The skilled migration "mega" thread is very muddled with all different types of visas and 30 pages. I found it difficult to find anything related to 186 visa time-frames.

I think its good to have a specific thread for 186/187 PR.

If we have a thread for 186/187 visas. What remaining visa do you suggest goes in the mega thread?

eoindoyle_syd · 18-04-2013 10:33am

Mellor wrote: »

If we have a thread for 186/187 visas. What remaining visa do you suggest goes in the mega thread?

Anything points related. 189, 190, 489 I guess. That's what it is mostly made up of anyway and general visa advice. Of course there are some general 186/7 questions also but I found much more relevant information on this thread.

I am only just recommending that you keep open this thread but that's yer call. Just giving some feedback.

Thanks.

rightyabe · 18-04-2013 10:34am

Mellor wrote: »

If we have a thread for 186/187 visas. What remaining visa do you suggest goes in the mega thread?

Maybe a separate one for 189/190 visas, the mega thread is kinda scattered. IMO.

statina · 18-04-2013 12:08pm

I'd like to see this thread kept open, partly to keep me sane :P.
IMO, the mega thread is messy and hard to read.

Congrats UglyJohn!

DeclanClune · 25-04-2013 12:21pm

uglyjohn wrote: »

i probably should have said sooner.

My PR was granted about a month ago. That means 4 months from when my migration agent lodged it.

Civil Engineer going from 457 to EN 186.

Applying under the temporary stream - the applications get processed faster and this is what we have also found.

statina · 26-04-2013 1:33am

Rang DIAC again, they said they are still processing July and August applications. They looked up my file and said no CO has been allocated yet but said it should be "soon". Which means bugger all really as they said the same to me 2 months ago!

gudede · 29-04-2013 1:36am

Hi All,

I am wondering if you can confirm/correct my understanding of visa 186/187 (I know I must go for a direct entry visa).

Background about myself

- I have a degree in Business with Accounting
- Also doing my accountancy exams (one left)
- Currently on a 457 visa (7 months) and the visa will be finishing in November 2013.
- Girlfriend is de-facto on my current visa.
- I’m 27 and I’m Irish
- Currently living in Perth
- The place I work told me that they want to extend my visa, so I told them about the changes that will take effect in July with regards 457 visa (just to speed up the process of extending my visa)

So I started looking at the 186/187 visa because of the permanent visa you get after two years. I think I will have to get my degree course recognised over here and I will have to do a medical before I apply of a 186/187 visa (presume I don’t have to do the English test).

Ok...now my questions (if you want to know more about my situation/background just ask)

If I applied for this visa and got it, would I be automatically be given a permanent visa after two years or would I have to apply for the permanent visa after two years?

Say if I left Australia after year and a half and went home, would I still get the permanent visa?

What are the benefits to the employer over a 457 ---- Nomination for the visa is free (because of regional status), also they are not responsible for me and only need to give me a contract for two years. (is this correct?)

My girlfriend will be going as a de-facto again but I am wondering if I can also put my brother onto the visa (he is currently in Melbourne and is an electrician but doesn’t have his Oz papers done)

What is the price of the medical and must we all get one done?

If I go and get the regional sponsored visa, will my work place need to get a company to approve the position? (assessment by a regional certifying body?) or would I be better off going for the employer nomination scheme?

Must I get my Irish degree recognised over here and if so want kind of information must I get?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the help.

statina · 29-04-2013 1:50am

Both of you will need to get a medical- its $330 each. I must be missing something but how is your sponsership visa up in Nov 2013 if you have only been on it 7 months?

Theres two strands to the 186 visa- you can apply the direct entry route if you have evidence of three years fulltime experience and a positive skills assessment

Or

after 2 years on the sponsorship scheme- you wont need a skills assessment.

Mellor · 29-04-2013 2:58am

statina wrote: »

I must be missing something but how is your sponsership visa up in Nov 2013 if you have only been on it 7 months?

What are you unsure about.
He probably in september or so on a contract that lasted just over 1 year.

gudede wrote: »

Hi All,

So I started looking at the 186/187 visa because of the permanent visa you get after two years.

If I applied for this visa and got it, would I be automatically be given a permanent visa after two years or would I have to apply for the permanent visa after two years?

You get a permanent visa straight away. The 186 is the perm visa.
I think you are confusing the issue with the partners visa. If the relationship is less than 3 years old, her defacto visa is temporary for two years, if still together, it becomes permanent.

Say if I left Australia after year and a half and went home, would I still get the permanent visa?

The visa lasts 5 years. Come and go as often as you like then.

My girlfriend will be going as a de-facto again but I am wondering if I can also put my brother onto the visa (he is currently in Melbourne and is an electrician but doesn’t have his Oz papers done)

No only partners and dependents are part of the visa.

statina · 29-04-2013 3:10am

Mellor wrote: »

What are you unsure about.
He probably in september or so on a contract that lasted just over 1 year.

Fair point! I read it again and I got it- my excuse is its Monday! :P

Mellor · 29-04-2013 3:29am

statina wrote: »

Fair point! I read it again and I got it- my excuse is its Monday! :P

I know the feeling

mandrake04 · 29-04-2013 3:42am

Degree being recognised is only part of a skills assessment, depends on what the occupation code is and relevant experience along with the qualification will form the skills assessment. Degree is not the same as skills assessment.

Also a skills assessment for an occupation like accountant I think they now require IELTS English Academic test 7.0 across all 4 bands as a minimum. (irrelevant of passport as its skills assessment related ....not DIAC related)

gudede · 29-04-2013 10:24am

Thanks for the replies.

Sorry my visa was only for 13 months, you can get a 457 visa for anything over three months to four years.

I will have to get a direct visa, I have over a year work experience in Australia and five years experience back home.

mandrake04, do you know a link where I can look into the skills assessment a bit more?

I'm just unsure what visa to get, I won't stay in Australia long term but if I could get a permanent visa for about 4000K then I would do that (give me more options in later years)

mandrake04 · 29-04-2013 10:49am

What exact occupation?

gudede · 29-04-2013 11:26am

I'll probably be sponsored as a contract administrator (51111) that's what I'm currently sponsored as.

I found this page with regards Skills Assessment http://www.vetassess.com.au/migrate_to_australia/qa2_nominating_occupation.cfm

Must study the information now ha

statina · 29-04-2013 11:37pm

Finally, Permanent Residency granted

pegleg · 30-04-2013 11:12am

Congrats statina what was your timeline?

statina · 30-04-2013 12:17pm

pegleg wrote: »

Congrats statina what was your timeline?

Nomination submitted 16/06/2012, approved 17/08/2012. Application submitted 25/08/2012- approved 29/04/2012.

rightyabe · 05-05-2013 8:35am

Hey, just wondering had anyone read if there will be any changes to these visas come July? My employer is being slack and I probably won't have lodged by the 1st of July.

Would hate to hear the requirements are changing..

dodgylegs · 05-05-2013 1:10pm

statina wrote: »

Finally, Permanent Residency granted

Congrats, go on the OT's

SyntonFenix · 06-05-2013 10:26am

Has anyone on here applied directly for a 187 visa from a WHV?

Is the 187 visa a permanent residency visa?

hussey · 07-05-2013 12:13am

SyntonFenix wrote: »

Has anyone on here applied directly for a 187 visa from a WHV?

What difference does it make? People apply with no visa.

Is the 187 visa a permanent residency visa?

Yes

Doc · 14-05-2013 2:22am

Well after a hell of a lot of F### ups, both on my part and others at long last its official. I am now a permanent resident of Australia and can stay as long as I want!!!

Happy Days!

eoindoyle_syd · 14-05-2013 9:02am

Some hope for those still waiting.....finally got my visa granted last week after an epic wait of 15 months (or 467 days)!

Visa: ENS 186
Occupation: Science Professional
Method: Non-DRC, Direct Entry
Location: CoE Parammatta

Timeline:
Applied for Nomination - 30/01/2012
Nomination Granted - 20/09/2012
Applied for 186 Visa - 25/09/2012
Case Officer Assigned - 30/04/2013
Meds and Police Clearance Submitted - 08/05/2013
Visa Grant - 10/05/2013

Best of luck for those waiting. FYI: DRC applications (using migration agent) are being processed very fast at the moment. From as little as 6 weeks!

catbear · 14-05-2013 11:45am

eoindoyle_syd wrote: »

Best of luck for those waiting. FYI: DRC applications (using migration agent) are being processed very fast at the moment. From as little as 6 weeks!

Congrats. Just one question, where do you hear about the latest time for agent applications? It's just that we're concerned that our current 457 sponsor who'll do the ENS with us may not actually have work next year. It's a gamble if we do it ourselves and work runs out before we're finally approved.

statina · 14-05-2013 12:08pm

catbear wrote: »

Congrats. Just one question, where do you hear about the latest time for agent applications? It's just that we're concerned that our current 457 sponsor who'll do the ENS with us may not actually have work next year. It's a gamble if we do it ourselves and work runs out before we're finally approved.

Congrats Doc and EoinDoyle! Such a relief to have it after all the months of waiting!

Catbear- if you send a Blank email to nsw.pse@immi.gov.au- you will receive a department of immigration automatic email with estimated time frames.

I also found Pomsinoz and LivingandWorkinginAustralia forums very helpful for getting a good estimate of where the department are at with time processing.

eoindoyle_syd · 15-05-2013 12:34am

catbear wrote: »

Congrats. Just one question, where do you hear about the latest time for agent applications? It's just that we're concerned that our current 457 sponsor who'll do the ENS with us may not actually have work next year. It's a gamble if we do it ourselves and work runs out before we're finally approved.

Hi Catbear.

I got the info on latest times for agent applications on a range of forums (boards ie and pomzinoz mostly). Full credit to the mods for keeping this and other sites going. It has helped me lots!

As Statina said (thanks by the way:))! you can also email "nsw.pse@immi.gov.au". You can send a blank email but I emailed them with my name, dob, TRN, and asked specifically about my case (after service standards were exceeded) and received a reply. The auto reply contains the following info (accurate from 30/04/13):

ALLOCATION TIMEFRAMES

We will no longer be publishing allocation dates by processing centre as we are using a number of strategies to manage the caseload more efficiently. Generally we are managing allocations via the following:

Priority 1: Decision Ready, complete applications in ANSCO 1 & 2 occupations (by date of lodgement)
Priority 2: All other Decision Ready applications (by date of lodgement)
Priority 3: ANSCO occupations 1 & 2 requiring further documentation (by date of lodgement)
Priority 4: All other applications by date of lodgement

I have heard one case (in Priority 1) being processed in 6 weeks, I would imagine some even less. However it is pot luck and probably depends on your company (prev sponsor?), agent (new or old), occupation (different case officers)!

If you want PR asap use a MARA registered agent and send it decision ready. I don't like how you are penalised for not using an agent (with long wait times) but thats the way the system is and its making things faster. The agent also acts as a screening tool for IMMI so should be quite sure of approval upon lodgement.

Mellor · 15-05-2013 10:27am

eoindoyle_syd wrote: »

If you want PR asap use a MARA registered agent and send it decision ready. I don't like how you are penalised for not using an agent (with long wait times) but thats the way the system is and its making things faster. The agent also acts as a screening tool for IMMI so should be quite sure of approval upon lodgement.

What does decision ready actually mean?
Can a self application be decision ready?

mandrake04 · 15-05-2013 10:37am

Mellor wrote: »

What does decision ready actually mean?
Can a self application be decision ready?

I think you have to have a MARA number.

http://www.immi.gov.au/gateways/agents/pdf/ma-checklist-ens-visa.pdf

rightyabe · 15-05-2013 10:44am

I think DR is when a agent signs a form saying all docs are correct and decision ready.

eoindoyle_syd · 15-05-2013 10:40pm

Mellor wrote: »

What does decision ready actually mean?

The "Decision Ready" (DR) initiative provides Registered Migration Agents with the capacity to certify their applications as decision ready to enable access to priority processing. They are basically front loaded with everything including medicals and police checks. No further info should be required.

(It is important to remember that although ‘decision ready’ ensures early allocation and assessment;it does not necessarily mean a fast decision.)

More info:
http://www.immi.gov.au/gateways/agents/resources/ens-rsms-decision-ready/

Mellor wrote: »

Can a self application be decision ready?

No.

Self applications are doomed to wait for ages at the gates of hell (ie. IMMI) while the escalator fast-tracks thousands of DR applications before you.

Mellor · 16-05-2013 2:33am

Thanks.
I wonder how much an agent would charge to check for completion and sign the form. As in applicant dies all the work and gets everything in order as per the decision ready checklist.

statina · 16-05-2013 3:22am

I asked an agent in Sydney the same question and he said he would charge the full cost. So $3000. At the time I couldnt justify paying that amount when I could do it myself but if I was doing it again, Id use an agent due to the length of time involved.

rightyabe · 16-05-2013 3:59am

Mellor wrote: »

Thanks.
I wonder how much an agent would charge to check for completion and sign the form. As in applicant dies all the work and gets everything in order as per the decision ready checklist.

Yeah it's breaking my heart to pay 3500 to a agent basically to sign a form but I need a DR application cause my WHV expires in August and I need to be onshore when I apply.

It a bit of a gimmick if you ask me but, 7500+$ to have PR is worth it I think over the course of your lifetime.

statina · 16-05-2013 4:40am

Yeah Id use an agent then. A friend of mine is an RN and has a very straightforward case- she submitted her Nomination in Dec and she hasnt heard anything yet.

Its worth paying the money for an agent if your going to stay in Oz for a good while. I found it hard to justify as we are undecided if we are going to stay in Oz after another 2 years.

eoindoyle_syd · 16-05-2013 9:33am

rightyabe wrote: »

Yeah it's breaking my heart to pay 3500 to a agent basically to sign a form but I need a DR application cause my WHV expires in August and I need to be onshore when I apply.

It a bit of a gimmick if you ask me but, 7500+$ to have PR is worth it I think over the course of your lifetime.

Yea, it does feed right into the agents hands and I expect you will hear a lot of agents requiring full payment only to submit forms after their assistant spends 2 or 3 hours reviewing them. $1000/hr ain't bad!

However just because your WHV is expiring you don't need an agent (or a DR application). You can still submit an onshore application yourself. You will have to wait longer to be assigned a case officer but you will have a bridging visa to keep working.

rightyabe · 16-05-2013 10:08am

eoindoyle_syd wrote: »

Yea, it does feed right into the agents hands and I expect you will hear a lot of agents requiring full payment only to submit forms after their assistant spends 2 or 3 hours reviewing them. $1000/hr ain't bad!

However just because your WHV is expiring you don't need an agent (or a DR application). You can still submit an onshore application yourself. You will have to wait longer to be assigned a case officer but you will have a bridging visa to keep working.

Yeah I could do it myself but I'm very impatient and just want it over ASAP. I know a couple how were waiting for 15 months for their RSMS and it took a lot out of them waiting for news every minute of every day. $3,500 for peace of mind split between me and my missus over the course of a few years is not a lot really.

A question..can my company lodge a nomination while still waiting on RCB approval?

DeclanClune · 16-05-2013 4:00pm

Guys,

It isn't as simply as just signing your name to the decision ready form.
You need to go through the application to confirm for yourself that everything is right. If the information doesn't add up, if information is missing etc it is the migration agent's name that is associated with the file and its 3 strikes and your out. Any other DR applications would not be accepted from that agent.

Hence it is the agent's responsibility to ensure that the application is correct and meets the decision ready criteria before submission so a full review of the application is required.

PS, since you are asking, Visafirst's fees are
AUD 1950 sponsorship
AUD 3250 permanent residency visa (189, 190, 186, 187)
They have a price promise.

laoisforliam · 17-05-2013 1:34am

Is it likely that a fee for de facto is going to be introduced after July 1 on the 186/187 visas? If so I think I might have to rush and get an application lodged!!

How long would it take to get a position nomination approved? I am currently on a 457 so my position has been nominated and approved previously would this aid the process in any way?

Can I lodge my application for a 186 visa after the position has been nominated but has not yet been approved?

Think I should really apply prior to the introduction of the rumoured de facto fees.

Cheers

Laoisforliam

Mellor · 17-05-2013 4:23am

DeclanClune wrote: »

Guys,

It isn't as simply as just signing your name to the decision ready form.

I wasn't suggestion that it was simply a signiture.

You need to go through the application to confirm for yourself that everything is right. If the information doesn't add up, if information is missing etc it is the migration agent's name that is associated with the file and its 3 strikes and your out. Any other DR applications would not be accepted from that agent.

Of course.
There's a checklist and you have to be sure that they have everything in order. I fully accept this takes time, which the agent should be paid for.

Hence it is the agent's responsibility to ensure that the application is correct and meets the decision ready criteria before submission so a full review of the application is required

This I don't accept.
There's no way that say that reviewing a complete application totals the same amount if work as holding hands with a person with nothing prepared from start to finish. If companies want to have set service prices, that's fine. Obviously. But I think it's silly I pretend its the same work involved.

rightyabe · 17-05-2013 10:24am

As my visa is running out my agent is suggesting I go for a 457 now and then get a 187 at a later date.

I'm wondering if I get a 457 now how soon can I apply for a 187 and what route? Transition route or could I still go the direct entry route?

186 / 187 Skilled Select (Permanent Nominated)

Comments