Kerry CC support permit system which allows rural people drink and drive

Shenshen · 22-01-2013 9:21am

lintdrummer wrote: »

Nobody here has mentioned that drink driving is rife in rural Ireland as it is. It's not like it used to be, people don't get mouldy and drive, but many people have a couple over a few hours and drive home. A lot of people just don't understand how life is for a large portion of the population. There is literally no way to get to the "local" other than to drive.
While this proposal is clearly flawed it's simply acknowledging a problem that already exists. From living in the rural area I'm from I can honestly say that I believe people are not posing any great risk by driving home from our local. Nobody would allow someone who was well oiled to drive home, the publican would give a lift to anyone well over the limit.
Perhaps a better proposal would be if the publican has responsibility for the permits. He's providing the alcohol, let him make a judgment on who can drive based on what they've drank/where they're going?
Anyway, I'll most likely be berated for this post but I'll say this: it is a real issue that needs to be solved. There are no taxis in the areas in question and there will never be a late night door to door rural public transport system. The suggestion that if all these people want to go to the pub they shouldn't drink is unreasonable. The publican bringing people home is happening but most of them surely don't own a minibus and there's only so much they can do.
Another thought: a grant for publicans to purchase a minibus and a permit to use green diesel. Would encourage stricter enforcement of closing time too, the extra time spent driving would encourage the publican to get everyone home as soon as 11.30 or whatever comes.

This really makes me wonder, what would all those poor, dry sods have done some 40 or 50 years ago, when next to nobody even owned a car?

Oh, yes, they may have just walked or taken a bicycle.

And now, obviously, they are utterly unable to get from their home to the nearest pub by any other means than their own car.... poor people.

Not even enough cop-on to organise a car pool or have a designated driver. Sad indeed.

Balmed Out · 22-01-2013 9:34am

Shenshen wrote: »

This really makes me wonder, what would all those poor, dry sods have done some 40 or 50 years ago, when next to nobody even owned a car?

There were far more smaller pubs then, and do you want a lot of drunk cyclists going around the place?

Shenshen wrote: »

Not even enough cop-on to organise a car pool or have a designated driver. Sad indeed.

Youre comparing rural areas to urban, a car pool of 4 people could well be a 45 minute journey. Many a 4 miles as the crow flies can be 15 miles following a road.

keano_afc · 22-01-2013 9:46am

the groutch wrote: »

shows how stupid the people of Kerry were when they voted two more Healy-Raes onto the CC.

Its parish pump politics at its worst. "Shure he helped with getting the road, I'll give him a vote".

Every one of those Healy-Rae's are a skidmark on the political underpant. In it for the money and have no shame in antything they do. Has Jackie given back his pension that was overpaid yet?

hoodwinked · 22-01-2013 9:48am

Balmed Out wrote: »

There were far more smaller pubs then, and do you want a lot of drunk cyclists going around the place?

Youre comparing rural areas to urban, a car pool of 4 people could well be a 45 minute journey. Many a 4 miles as the crow flies can be 15 miles following a road.

you are assuming all rural drink drivers live miles apart what about the case in my post above?

CruelCoin · 22-01-2013 9:54am

OP,

Please don't be so naive to think that country folk are so good as to be completely tee-total in the face of a total lack of public transport.

Most country people drink drive. All this will do is normalise the legal situation somewhat.

listermint · 22-01-2013 9:57am

CruelCoin wrote: »

OP,

Please don't be so naive to think that country folk are so good as to be completely tee-total in the face of a total lack of public transport.

Most country people drink drive. All this will do is normalise the legal situation somewhat.

What does normalise the legal situation somewhat mean ?

Does that help my father who was rammed from behind by some pure filthy muck bag who was driving back to naas or whereever the hell he was from tanked up with alchohol? Wrote the car off and only for my father was extremely fortunate he is still here.

The other lads car ended up on its side with 2 young female passengers in it.

Normalise the situation...... Id love to boot Healy Rae and all his cohorts right up the arse. They make Clay Davis from the wire look like a pure angel.

WoollyRedHat · 22-01-2013 9:58am

liam7831 wrote: »

I suppose if you don't like it then well don't come don't to kerry

Kerry isn't the wild wild west... and being a citizen of the Republic of Ireland comes with the freedom of every county.

Scanlas The 2nd · 22-01-2013 9:58am

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

you'd swear the government was forcing people to live 10 miles away from their local the way people are suggesting bus routes or taxis. if you choose to live far away from towns, you have to deal with the fact that your services are going to suck compared to someone in a town or a city.

plus you can always just bloody walk home.

Drink walking home is 8 times more likely to lead to a death than drink driving home. Source Freakonomics.

Balmed Out · 22-01-2013 10:00am

hoodwinked wrote: »

you are assuming all rural drink drivers live miles apart what about the case in my post above?

What are you talking about? Where did I make that assumption!!!
I never ever drink and drive and am not condoning it, im just saying that its a very different crime to drive on main roads or through urban areas then to do so up a coastal boreen that has a total traffic flow of 3 cars in a 24 hour period.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 22-01-2013 10:01am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Drink walking home is 8 times more likely to lead to a death than drink driving home. Source Freakonomics.

death for the person walking, very hard to kill an innocent bystander when you're walking home instead of driving.

plus we're talking about walking home after 2-3 pints, not 15

listermint · 22-01-2013 10:02am

Balmed Out wrote: »

What are you talking about? Where did I make that assumption!!!
I never ever drink and drive and am not condoning it, im just saying that its a very different crime to drive on main roads or through urban areas then to do so up a coastal boreen that has a total traffic flow of 3 cars in a 24 hour period.

Ah right so then killing oneself is alright then. Have you looked at road stats on how many people die each year in single vehicle collisions ?

Off you trot then...

Thundercats Ho · 22-01-2013 10:03am

Has the VFI made a statement on these imbeciles advocating drink driving?
He'd rather put the lives of his own punters at risk, and anyone else that may be on the roads, than set up a shuttle service at closing time. Greedy incosiderate baxstard.
This is a slap in the face to anyone who has lost a loved one to drink driving.
This Healy Rae idiot should be ashamed of himself (if he had the brains to do so).

John_Rambo · 22-01-2013 10:04am

mikemac1 wrote: »

the money that gets pumped into the transport systems in the cities!

You got that wrong.

"The money" is made in the cities Mikemac1... the cities cover all their expenses by far, the rest of the money is pumped in to rural areas.

Balmed Out · 22-01-2013 10:06am

listermint wrote: »

Ah right so then killing oneself is alright then. Have you looked at road stats on how many people die each year in single vehicle collisions ?

Off you trot then...

Im not the one sitting on a high horse trotting anywhere.
Did I say I support drink driving ????????

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-01-2013 10:07am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Drink walking home is 8 times more likely to lead to a death than drink driving home. Source Freakonomics.

Darwin comes in to play here - the drink-walker is only going to kill himself, not anyone else.

listermint · 22-01-2013 10:09am

Balmed Out wrote: »

Im not the one sitting on a high horse trotting anywhere.
Did I say I support drink driving ????????

I dont have a horse.

Also by your comments you seem to favour it but spouting some nonsense about urban roads and rural boreens. did you not?

Utter nonsense, now trot on and look at the stats.

CruelCoin · 22-01-2013 10:10am

listermint wrote: »

What does normalise the legal situation somewhat mean ?

Does that help my father who was rammed from behind by some pure filthy muck bag who was driving back to naas or whereever the hell he was from tanked up with alchohol? Wrote the car off and only for my father was extremely fortunate he is still here.

The other lads car ended up on its side with 2 young female passengers in it.

Normalise the situation...... Id love to boot Healy Rae and all his cohorts right up the arse. They make Clay Davis from the wire look like a pure angel.

Normalise the situation basically means making it legal for something to happen which happens anyway, and will always happen anyway.

Also, there is a big difference between driving with 3 pints and driving with 15.

After 3 pints, i still have faster reflexes than a sober granny, so the current drink laws are a bit ridiculous.

listermint · 22-01-2013 10:11am

CruelCoin wrote: »

Normalise the situation basically means making it legal for something to happen which happens anyway, and will always happen anyway.

Also, there is a big difference between driving with 3 pints and driving with 15.

After 3 pints, i still have faster reflexes than a sober granny, so the current drink laws are a bit ridiculous.

Your comments sir are ridiculous. Im sorry but i cannot engage in utter stupidity.

Wibbs · 22-01-2013 10:11am

Look folks it's one of the Healy-Raes, the insanity and the cute hoorism is a given.

hoodwinked · 22-01-2013 10:11am

Balmed Out wrote: »

What are you talking about? Where did I make that assumption!!!
I never ever drink and drive and am not condoning it, im just saying that its a very different crime to drive on main roads or through urban areas then to do so up a coastal boreen that has a total traffic flow of 3 cars in a 24 hour period.

you said:

Balmed Out wrote: »

There were far more smaller pubs then, and do you want a lot of drunk cyclists going around the place?

Youre comparing rural areas to urban, a car pool of 4 people could well be a 45 minute journey. Many a 4 miles as the crow flies can be 15 miles following a road.

you are assuming all rural drink drivers live miles apart, the ones i know live on the same road and they still can't organise one of them to drive rather than drink.

in fact you assume again here:

Balmed Out wrote: »

, im just saying that its a very different crime to drive on main roads or through urban areas then to do so up a coastal boreen that has a total traffic flow of 3 cars in a 24 hour period.

these people are rural and do live on a boreen but that same boreen would have a lot more than 3 cars in a 24 hour period it can be busier than some urban roads i know.

listermint · 22-01-2013 10:14am

To be fair, Kerry gets enough stick with Kerry Jokes without propagating this sort of nonsense.

Shenshen · 22-01-2013 10:15am

Balmed Out wrote: »

There were far more smaller pubs then, and do you want a lot of drunk cyclists going around the place?

Ideally, I'd keep drunk people off the roads no matter what their choice of transportation.
But the way I see it, if they're on a bike or on foot, they'll only end up killing themselves, not others.

Youre comparing rural areas to urban, a car pool of 4 people could well be a 45 minute journey. Many a 4 miles as the crow flies can be 15 miles following a road.

I don't see the problem... apparently, they're happy to drive a good few miles to the pub, so why is it too difficult to pick people up along the way and drop them off after?

seamus · 22-01-2013 10:17am

Thankfully the Gardai are free to ignore the wishes of Kerry CC.

Alan Shatter and/or the Gardai should issue a statement telling Kerry CC to cop on and stop making a fool of themselves.

Barna77 · 22-01-2013 10:18am

Heard him on the news... What did he say? I could only understand something about "messages"

:pac:

Wibbs · 22-01-2013 10:21am

listermint wrote: »

Your comments sir are ridiculous. Im sorry but i cannot engage in utter stupidity.

Are they though? I'm old enough to recall a time when driving with a couple on board wasn't near the level of being associated with being a babykiller as it is now. A couple, not pissed. The original limits backed this up. I should stress I never did it myself, think drink(or drugged) driving is daft and think any plan associated with the Healy-Raes should be dismissed on general principle. However if we look objectively at driving and what can cause distractions enough to cause accidents he may have some point to make. EG I've(stupidly) driven with a dose of the flu and with streaming snotters headcolds and IMH I would have been safer if I had been healthy with two pints in me.

Still lie I said it's the Healy-Raes, so point and laugh at the gombeens, ignore and move on.

CruelCoin · 22-01-2013 10:21am

listermint wrote: »

Your comments sir are ridiculous. Im sorry but i cannot engage in utter stupidity.

I will surely cry myself to sleep.

(once i rampage round the country GTA style on my way home from being bladdered first of course).

listermint · 22-01-2013 10:22am

CruelCoin wrote: »

I will surely cry myself to sleep.

(once i rampage round the country GTA style on my way home from being bladdered first of course).

No youd have to confine that to Kerry sorry.

CruelCoin · 22-01-2013 10:24am

listermint wrote: »

No youd have to confine that to Kerry sorry.

Good GTA fun to be had all over.

Why stop at kerry?

listermint · 22-01-2013 10:25am

Wibbs wrote: »

Are they though? I'm old enough to recall a time when driving with a couple on board wasn't near the level of being associated with being a babykiller as it is now. A couple, not pissed. The original limits backed this up. I should stress I never did it myself, think drink(or drugged) driving is daft and think any plan associated with the Healy-Raes should be dismissed on general principle. However if we look objectively at driving and what can cause distractions enough to cause accidents he may have some point to make. EG I've(stupidly) driven with a dose of the flu and with streaming snotters headcolds and IMH I would have been safer if I had been healthy with two pints in me.

Still lie I said it's the Healy-Raes, so point and laugh at the gombeens, ignore and move on.

Are you old enough to recall a time when children were sent to big houses up the end of town to be 'looked after' by the state / church.

Well you see as we evolve over time we get more informed on issues. Such as the church were a bunch of scumbags for years in this country. And oh yeah drink driving actually kills people.

Gaining knowledge over time is a good thing, it also can show up how uttterly stupid people were in the past.

Shenshen · 22-01-2013 10:32am

Wibbs wrote: »

Are they though? I'm old enough to recall a time when driving with a couple on board wasn't near the level of being associated with being a babykiller as it is now. A couple, not pissed. The original limits backed this up. I should stress I never did it myself, think drink(or drugged) driving is daft and think any plan associated with the Healy-Raes should be dismissed on general principle. However if we look objectively at driving and what can cause distractions enough to cause accidents he may have some point to make. EG I've(stupidly) driven with a dose of the flu and with streaming snotters headcolds and IMH I would have been safer if I had been healthy with two pints in me.

Still lie I said it's the Healy-Raes, so point and laugh at the gombeens, ignore and move on.

I think that this does to some extend ignore that fact that car ownership in Ireland has exploded over the last couple of decades, and that what would have been safe enough driving a while back, with little or no other traffic on the roads, now can be quite hazardous.

I do live in a rural location, though not quite as rural as some people on here who seem to live an hours drive from the nearest pub, and I can assure you that roads that a few years ago would have seen one or two cars a day are now as busy as any urban residential road.
There are many more houses along these roads now, and most families living there will own and drive more than one car.

While I completely agree that driving with a little alcohol in your blood is no different than driving with a bad migraine or the flu, I still think that if a potential danger can practically be legislated against it should be.

Chips Lovell · 22-01-2013 10:35am

Kerry County Council have about as much influence on the drafting of drink driving laws as I have.

Total non-story.

Balmed Out · 22-01-2013 10:37am

hoodwinked wrote: »

you are assuming all rural drink drivers live miles apart, the ones i know live on the same road and they still can't organise one of them to drive rather than drink.

You seem to be reading something completely different to what I wrote. I used the word "could" not "all". I am not talking about youre relatives at all neither am I talking about the area their from.

shenshen wrote: »

I don't see the problem... apparently, they're happy to drive a good few miles to the pub, so why is it too difficult to pick people up along the way and drop them off after?

Id love if this was likely to happen but in a lot of areas its not. I have often when visiting the in laws ended up being a designated driver for a few people all living down different small peninsulas. I live ten minutes beyond it and its the bones of an hour to drop them home and then go home myself.

My point is that this is a real issue and we can impose all the laws we want but unless we decide to increase the Guarda budget 100 fold we cant police it out of existance. As it is with the once every 10 years checkpoint every pub in the parish is rung and informed within 5 minutes of it being set up.
What do we do then ?
At the moment most rural people that I know wouldnt get into a car and drive drunk but they will after having 2 while watching a match or whatever (seems much more a male problem). This leads to a situation where after 6 or 7 they think to themselves Ive done it so many times and never seen a checkpoint and in their alcahol fueled idiocy get into the car. This same person gets cocky and will do a longer journey in the same condition in the future.
We need to change the culture and what we are doing now which has been fantastic in urban areas does not seem to be getting through. Its not that these people are idiots either, they can be university educated etc etc.

Noffles · 22-01-2013 10:40am

Haaaaaaggghhhh You're ****ing kidding.... this is laughable....

Balmed Out · 22-01-2013 10:41am

By the way hoodwinked if your relatives and their neighbours are getting into a car that drunk then it mightnt be a bad idea to contact the guarda.

crockholm · 22-01-2013 10:44am

15 years ago we were close to the bottom of the EU vehicular deaths per 100,000, by 2011 only sweden and the UK had lower road fatalities, the number came down drastically again last year, due to better roads and drink-driving becoming more of a taboo than it was in the past. DHR is wrong wrong wrong on this(quelle surprise).With luck after the next election he will be just a publican,crying into his pint glass with john o donoghue

Frank Bullitt · 22-01-2013 10:46am

Do a county council have control over how the Garda will police this? Surely if they were the case then we would end up with a country like the US where there are different laws in each state.

Mr Shatter needs to make a statement on this and put it firmly in the bin, this is pissing on the graves of people who were killed by drink drivers, and making it worse for the families of those affected.

The Healy-Raes are a stern reminder that cousins should not be allowed to marry.

Old_-_School · 22-01-2013 10:49am

Have the 3 councillors who voted against the motion been listed?
The other 24 councillors who voted for the motion or abstained should never again see public office.

OldGoat · 22-01-2013 10:58am

Wonder how the insurance companies will take the news after a crash. "I have a permit to drink/drive" Can't see them paying out on that.

And talking of paying out I wonder if there would be a charge for these permits? €2400pa sounds reasonable.

Wibbs · 22-01-2013 10:58am

listermint wrote: »

Are you old enough to recall a time when children were sent to big houses up the end of town to be 'looked after' by the state / church.

Well you see as we evolve over time we get more informed on issues. Such as the church were a bunch of scumbags for years in this country. And oh yeah drink driving actually kills people.

Niiice, bring in the oul church too, the whipping boy for Irish failures and a dumping ground for all the ills of the past. Love it.

Gaining knowledge over time is a good thing, it also can show up how uttterly stupid people were in the past.

On that logic, future people will also think us at the moment to be "utterly stupid" too, or have we reached a perfect state now? Very simplistic and emotion driven argument.

Ranicand · 22-01-2013 11:01am

lintdrummer wrote: »

Yes it is. Like it or not, many, many people are incapable of socialising without a drink. And for a lot of the people we're talking about, going to the pub is all they have. Sad but true.
I'm sorry for your loss and I hope I haven't come across as insensitive. I do not agree with drink driving as we all understand it. A drunk person is a danger in a vehicle and should never be allowed to drive. But what I do believe is that a person can be over the legal limit, but not drunk, and be very capable of driving on a quiet road home.

Look your posting pure selfish crap and no we don't have to listen to you or show you any respect because your full of it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-01-2013 11:06am

lintdrummer wrote: »

Yes it is. Like it or not, many, many people are incapable of socialising without a drink. And for a lot of the people we're talking about, going to the pub is all they have. Sad but true.
I'm sorry for your loss and I hope I haven't come across as insensitive. I do not agree with drink driving as we all understand it. A drunk person is a danger in a vehicle and should never be allowed to drive. But what I do believe is that a person can be over the legal limit, but not drunk, and be very capable of driving on a quiet road home.

Perhaps a wider range of social activities then? If all someone has is the pub, it's time to get soemthing more into your life.

The Haely-Raes would be better putting their voice behind more social-based initiatives than the pub, surely? (Yeah, I know, they own the pubs....)

Chips Lovell · 22-01-2013 11:08am

They should get a bowling alley and a quasar in Kilgarvan for all the aul lads who can't drink and drive.

omega666 · 22-01-2013 11:08am

In fairness half the people on here haven't a single iota what's it like to live in a real rural area. Some of the suggestions of just simply ringing a taxi or walking home just show the ignorance on display. Living in rathfarnam is thier idea of the country side.

People in Rural pubs already drink and drive, the local Guards know perfectly well who do it and could catch any of them on any night of the week but they turn a blind eye. Obviously i'm not talking about fellas drinking 10 pints and driving off home plastered. I'm talking about the 70 year old farmer who goes to the local every night for 2 or 3 pints.

Ranicand · 22-01-2013 11:09am

Shenshen wrote: »

This really makes me wonder, what would all those poor, dry sods have done some 40 or 50 years ago, when next to nobody even owned a car?

Oh, yes, they may have just walked or taken a bicycle.

And now, obviously, they are utterly unable to get from their home to the nearest pub by any other means than their own car.... poor people.

Not even enough cop-on to organise a car pool or have a designated driver. Sad indeed.

Sure they are from Kerry what can we expect?

And before anybody starts trying to defend the hicks they voted for this their stupidly is on record for all to see.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-01-2013 11:11am

omega666 wrote: »

In fairness half the people on here haven't a single iota what's it like to like in a real rural area. Some of the suggestions of just simply ringing a taxi or walking home just show the ignorance on display. Living in rathfarnam is thier idea of the country side.

People in Rural pubs already drink and drive, the local Guards know perfectly well who do it and could catch any of them on any night of the week but they turn a blind eye. Obviously i'm not talking about fellas drinking 10 pints and driving off home plastered. I'm talking about the 70 year old farmer who goes to the local every night for 2 or 3 pints.

Ya see, this sounds like arrogance. I mean. these are the same people who probably rang up Joe to get the head-sops closed down. And, of course, they all knew everything about the legal highs on offer at the time.

What's good for the goose, as they say...

listermint · 22-01-2013 11:11am

Wibbs wrote: »

Niiice, bring in the oul church too, the whipping boy for Irish failures and a dumping ground for all the ills of the past. Love it.

On that logic, future people will also think us at the moment to be "utterly stupid" too, or have we reached a perfect state now? Very simplistic and emotion driven argument.

No, im pretty confident you know entirely what i am getting at. But decided to side step that entirely.

Just because 'that used to be the way' doesnt mean its correct to carry on in that manner. Its been proven TIME AND TIME again that drinking impairs your reaction times. So praytell why you want someone who has purposefully impaired themselves behind the wheel of a 2 ton death machine.

Il wait here Wibbs while you enlighten my with your knowledge......

Cantona's Collars · 22-01-2013 11:15am

Nice to tune into Ray D'arcy earlier when he had Healy Ray on.D'arcy got so vexed that he hung up on him.

How many more hair brained ideas will the Healy Rays come up with before the people of Kerry cop on to the fact they are electing morons?

Shenshen · 22-01-2013 11:17am

omega666 wrote: »

People in Rural pubs already drink and drive, the local Guards know perfectly well who do it and could catch any of them on any night of the week but they turn a blind eye. Obviously i'm not talking about fellas drinking 10 pints and driving off home plastered. I'm talking about the 70 year old farmer who goes to the local every night for 2 or 3 pints.

So you're talking about someone who due to his age possibly already has an increased reaction time, and you think it's just dandy for him to go and reduce his driving ability a little further by drinking?

efb · 22-01-2013 11:18am

I lived in rural Ireland 7 miles to town.

Taxis are available. People to scabby to use them and publicans want the money spent in their pub.

Balmed Out · 22-01-2013 11:20am

listermint wrote: »

. So praytell why you want someone who has purposefully impaired themselves behind the wheel of a 2 ton death machine.
QUOTE]

Where did anyone say that they want drunks to be driving.

As a society we can either deal with a problem or stick fingers in our ears, shut our eyes and hope the problem fixes itself.
If were ever going to minimise drink related tests then we will have to create a culture in rural areas that wont tolerate dangerous behaviour. Unfortunately a zero tolerance approach isnt working and can never ever be enforced.

Kerry CC support permit system which allows rural people drink and drive

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