N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

Jayuu · 03-08-2012 10:28am

Just looking at that suggested map route, surely it would be better for Waterford bound traffic to continue on from Dundrum to Cashel on the R505, pick up the M8 for a short while and rejoin the N24 at Cahir.

I don't know the quality of the R505 between Dundrum and Cashel but I'd be surprised if it was much worse than the R661 back into Tipperary and since both route choices force you to go through a town (Cashel for the R505 and Tipperary for the R661) there's not much savng of time on the proposed route. At least with my suggestion you'd be a good bit further down the N24 when you rejoined it.

Interestingly when I put the start point of the R505 and the endpoint of the N24 at Cahir into Google Maps it gives the route I suggested and a number of other options, none of which are the route shown on the advertisement.

Limerick74 · 09-08-2012 2:12pm

Limerick County Council have approved the N24 road closure for Oola Bridge. Attached is a copy of the notice in Irish Independent.

touts · 21-08-2012 1:56pm

Anyone have any feedback on how the diversions are working? Haven't had to use them yet but may have to later this week.

Limerick74 · 21-08-2012 5:38pm

The diversions seem to be handling the traffic ok. The diversions add around 20 minutes to the journey. The old Oola Bridge is already dismantled.

DaveJac · 21-08-2012 10:33pm

Limerick74 wrote: »

The diversions seem to be handling the traffic ok. The diversions add around 20 minutes to the journey. The old Oola Bridge is already dismantled.

20 Minutes??? how fast are you going? no way you can do any of those routes in 20 minutes normal driving espically with traffic ect have they changed from above??

Limerick74 · 22-08-2012 1:38am

DaveJac wrote: »

Limerick74 wrote: »

The diversions seem to be handling the traffic ok. The diversions add around 20 minutes to the journey. The old Oola Bridge is already dismantled.

20 Minutes??? how fast are you going? no way you can do any of those routes in 20 minutes normal driving espically with traffic ect have they changed from above??

I said it adds 20 minutes to your journey (i.e. from limerick to tipp town), not that they take 20 minutes. The detour section itself takes around 40 minutes off peak if you are not caught behind a tractor.

mlumley · 22-08-2012 1:50am

17 years ago, I remember talking to my boss about the state of this road.He was bringing me back from a break down in Limerick. His comment was that for a road that brings tourists intom the country it was an absalute discrace.

For too long, piriority has been about Dublin.

It is about time that we got decent motorway links from the ports that bring in the tourists to this country. Forget the upgrades arround Dublin, the rest of the country would love to have half of what they have up there. It is a national discrace that people come to this country an suffer these roads.

Ahh but sure, dose any one in Dublin care?

Jayuu · 22-08-2012 11:02am

mlumley wrote: »

17 years ago, I remember talking to my boss about the state of this road.He was bringing me back from a break down in Limerick. His comment was that for a road that brings tourists intom the country it was an absalute discrace.

For too long, piriority has been about Dublin.

It is about time that we got decent motorway links from the ports that bring in the tourists to this country. Forget the upgrades arround Dublin, the rest of the country would love to have half of what they have up there. It is a national discrace that people come to this country an suffer these roads.

Ahh but sure, dose any one in Dublin care?

Oh yawn! Spare me please from this kind of post.

The priority was not about Dublin solely, it was about linking the major cities of the country to Dublin which was necessary according to every report and most of the major companies that invested in Ireland. And Dublin port and airport probably bring far more tourists into the country that anywhere else so that argument is fairly bogus.

If we had gotten our finger out and built the full network as planned then we'd also have the Atlantic corridoor completed by this stage which would have linked the major cities of the country to each other as well. And probably a lot of upgrading on the N24 would have happened. The fact that the plan fell so far behind schedule has nothing to do with Dublin at all.

If you want to be really nit picky about it you could say that the vast majority of the roads built weren't in Dublin at all. In the meantime Dublin's internal transport infrastructure has lagged behind causing major gridlock in the city.

And by the way just in case you think this is a Dublin bias, YES I do live in Dublin but happen to be originally from a town on the N24 so I have a foot in both camps.

DaveJac · 25-08-2012 11:31pm

this is all on target to be opened monday/tuesday anyway the new bridge is in place one rough layer of road surface on it, but the bridge will still be only one lane when it opens back up for a few more weeks

Limerick74 · 26-08-2012 9:44am

DaveJac wrote: »

this is all on target to be opened monday/tuesday anyway the new bridge is in place one rough layer of road surface on it, but the bridge will still be only one lane when it opens back up for a few more weeks

Looks like they will be reopening the N24 a day earlier today. Yes there will be traffic management for a while as they finish the road works but it's great they finally got the bridge replaced.

touts · 27-08-2012 10:15am

It is open this morning. One lane only. Looking at the lane that was previosly closed and is still closed as I passed by I would say there are weeks if not months of work before it can open. They seemed to be still piling it and building it up. But at least it is open and the new bridge looks like it will be a lot wider than the old one.

spacetweek · 27-08-2012 11:08am

Can you guys give me a gmaps link for the location of these works?

highlydebased · 27-08-2012 1:48pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Can you guys give me a gmaps link for the location of these works?

http://goo.gl/maps/zwjEl

Boscoirl · 29-10-2012 11:41pm

2 months on from the bridge reopening, anyone have any more information on when we will be back up to 2 lanes? My driving habits have changed recently, and I am now hitting Oola at peak hours and along with the other road works on the Waterford side of Tipp town, time spent waiting at traffic lights is adding up.

Magnum · 30-10-2012 8:05am

Boscoirl wrote: »

2 months on from the bridge reopening, anyone have any more information on when we will be back up to 2 lanes? My driving habits have changed recently, and I am now hitting Oola at peak hours and along with the other road works on the Waterford side of Tipp town, time spent waiting at traffic lights is adding up.

The road/bridge is back open to two lanes of traffic since last week.

Boscoirl · 30-10-2012 9:04am

Thanks, of course it opens the week I don't use the road

road_high · 16-10-2014 1:31pm

Another two unfortunate souls lost their lives on this death trap road. RIP;

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-people-killed-in-morning-road-collision-30668740.html

DaveJac · 16-10-2014 3:22pm

road_high wrote: »

Another two unfortunate souls lost their lives on this death trap road. RIP;

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-people-killed-in-morning-road-collision-30668740.html

wouldnt call it a death trap road, i dont think the road had anything to do with the crash this morning im afraid

veryangryman · 16-10-2014 4:59pm

DaveJac wrote: »

wouldnt call it a death trap road, i dont think the road had anything to do with the crash this morning im afraid

Without knowing the specifics, I can safely think if it was DC, there wouldn't have been a collision.

Too late for that sh1t now though. Another death indirectly caused by the greed and poor planning decisions of the boom. RIP.

touts · 17-10-2014 7:28am

I don't know what happened in this case but in general the volume of traffic on that road far outstrips the capacity of the road and safety suffers as a result. It is so bendy and winding that people get frustrated and take chances on the few overtaking opportunities that exist. I frequently travel that road and I have to say I see a much higher number of insane risks than on any other road. I regularly see large trucks on the wrong side of the road overtaking a slower moving truck on stretches of straight road that it would normally be tight to get a fast car past a slow car. People get hugely frustrated on that whole road. Now is it the fault of the people or the fault of the road. Probably a bit of both. Personally I allow for an average speed of 80kph for my journey on that road. So if I need to be somewhere by a set time I plan a journey time based on that average and I'm rarely too far wrong. That is an average speed much lower than I use for planning my journeys on any other road. Yet it is necessary on the N24. There is no point in taking a chance to overtake a slow car/truck because the volume of traffic is such that there is a constant stream of traffic coming against you so any "gap" is usually much smaller than you think and even if you do get around the slow vehicle you will just end up behind something else in a couple of minutes. Someone who didn't know the road and assumed an N road would mean an average closer to 100kph might well become impatient and frustrated and end up taking risks.

cml387 · 17-10-2014 8:20am

touts wrote: »

I don't know what happened in this case but in general the volume of traffic on that road far outstrips the capacity of the road and safety suffers as a result. It is so bendy and winding that people get frustrated and take chances on the few overtaking opportunities that exist. I frequently travel that road and I have to say I see a much higher number of insane risks than on any other road. I regularly see large trucks on the wrong side of the road overtaking a slower moving truck on stretches of straight road that it would normally be tight to get a fast car past a slow car. People get hugely frustrated on that whole road. Now is it the fault of the people or the fault of the road. Probably a bit of both. Personally I allow for an average speed of 80kph for my journey on that road. So if I need to be somewhere by a set time I plan a journey time based on that average and I'm rarely too far wrong. That is an average speed much lower than I use for planning my journeys on any other road. Yet it is necessary on the N24. There is no point in taking a chance to overtake a slow car/truck because the volume of traffic is such that there is a constant stream of traffic coming against you so any "gap" is usually much smaller than you think and even if you do get around the slow vehicle you will just end up behind something else in a couple of minutes. Someone who didn't know the road and assumed an N road would mean an average closer to 100kph might well become impatient and frustrated and end up taking risks.

Exactly. There are a certain number of straight bits ,the stretch outside the racecourse is the first after winding your way out of Tipperary, some straights between Bansha and Cahir, and one stretch after Monard and that's about it until the road improvements nearer Limerick.
What may have exarcerbated this was the road marking work in progress between Cahir and Bansha that was causing huge tailbacks.

fricatus · 17-10-2014 9:24am

touts wrote: »

I don't know what happened in this case but in general the volume of traffic on that road far outstrips the capacity of the road and safety suffers as a result. It is so bendy and winding that people get frustrated and take chances on the few overtaking opportunities that exist. I frequently travel that road and I have to say I see a much higher number of insane risks than on any other road. I regularly see large trucks on the wrong side of the road overtaking a slower moving truck on stretches of straight road that it would normally be tight to get a fast car past a slow car. People get hugely frustrated on that whole road. Now is it the fault of the people or the fault of the road. Probably a bit of both. Personally I allow for an average speed of 80kph for my journey on that road. So if I need to be somewhere by a set time I plan a journey time based on that average and I'm rarely too far wrong. That is an average speed much lower than I use for planning my journeys on any other road. Yet it is necessary on the N24. There is no point in taking a chance to overtake a slow car/truck because the volume of traffic is such that there is a constant stream of traffic coming against you so any "gap" is usually much smaller than you think and even if you do get around the slow vehicle you will just end up behind something else in a couple of minutes. Someone who didn't know the road and assumed an N road would mean an average closer to 100kph might well become impatient and frustrated and end up taking risks.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. Well said!

AugustusMinimus · 17-10-2014 9:58am

Long term, nothing less than 2+2 will suffice with this road. Sadly, it looks like it is way down on current priorities.

spacetweek · 17-10-2014 12:48pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Too late for that sh1t now though. Another death indirectly caused by the greed and poor planning decisions of the boom. RIP.

Bit harsh, no one has anything against the N24 per se, there were only a certain number of motorways we could get done in the time given and the busiest ones were prioritised.

spacetweek · 17-10-2014 12:59pm

From the experience of people on this thread would you say Limerick-Cahir or Cahir-Waterford is more in need of improvement?

fricatus · 17-10-2014 3:53pm

spacetweek wrote: »

From the experience of people on this thread would you say Limerick-Cahir or Cahir-Waterford is more in need of improvement?

Definitely Limerick-Cahir. There are a few stretches closer to Waterford that are poor too, such as around Carrick-on-Suir and Mooncoin.

The rest is OK-ish, though the long 60 km/h stretch around Clonmel with all its roundabouts is a real pain to drive, and apparently gets quite congested at rush hour (though I've never seen that myself).

touts · 17-10-2014 7:19pm

spacetweek wrote: »

From the experience of people on this thread would you say Limerick-Cahir or Cahir-Waterford is more in need of improvement?

Without a shadow of a doubt it is Limeick to Cahir. I relax when I get to Cahir. It has a much better road with some 2-1 stretches around Cahir and Past Carrick. Coming out of Cahir towards Limerick are a series of bends that regularly see cars skidding off because they hit that stretch at 100kph and don't realise how bad the bends are. Before they get to slow down they are in the ditch. The council have resurfaced it several times to improve the grip but everything fails. For the last year or so they have had those Red and White temporary plastic barriers along the ditches to try and slow down cars before they hit the wall. But the only answer is to either bypass that stretch or buldoze the house on the bend and straighten the road. After that the road is ok to Bansha but with very few overtaking opportunities. The stretch into Bansha has seen a few fatal crashes as people try to avail of the first decent straight stretch in about 20 minutes in either direction. Bansha village is a 50kph which often has a Garda speed trap. Past Bansha you are into a wooded bseries of bends to Tipp town that are impossible to overtake on. The terrains is such that you couldn't straighten that stretch. A complete new road to the north is needed. There is a Go Safe speed camera Zone there but I doubt they ever catch anyone. It is impossible to do 100kph let alone speed. Tipp town is a notorious bottleneck as cars and trucks negotiate the narrow streets and traffic lights. Past Tipp town the road improves a bit it overtaking is still very difficult with short straight stretches and a constant stream of traffic. Several of the straight sections also have speed camera vans and Monard and Oola are known for hidden Garda camera vans. So basically you see locals slow down to less than the speed limit but that irritates drivers behind them who don't realise the limit is 50 and that unmarked van on the side of the road is quite possibly a Garda van. Oola to limerick pallasgreen is ok but limited overtaking options and the road narrows considerably at a couple of ageing railway bridges. If you meet a truck on a bridge you have no choice but to give way or go under the truck. There is not enough room for the two of you. Past Pallasgreen the road improves and within about 10km of Limerick it really widens out and becomes much safer. But again it is prone to speed cameras and Garda checkpoints so don't be tempted to break the speed limit. Many are and, rightly, get points.

So personally I would upgrade Limerick to Cahir first and within that the Tipp town to Cahir section basically needs complete replacement.

JohnC. · 12-04-2015 11:13am

Is there somewhere to see details of upcoming roadworks? I've seen an electronic sign near Mooncoin (travelling west on the Waterford side of the village) signalling imminent road works, saying it will last until late 2015, so seems like it isn't a small job.

marno21 · 09-07-2015 2:32am

Services have opened along this route now in Tipp town, similar to the M7 Barack Obama Plaza, the Tipp Town Plaza.

I'd imagine this wouldn't have gone ahead if Pallasgreen-Cahir has any chance of going ahead soon, especially with all the services already along this relatively low trafficed route

touts · 09-07-2015 6:18am

marno21 wrote: »

Services have opened along this route now in Tipp town, similar to the M7 Barack Obama Plaza, the Tipp Town Plaza.

I'd imagine this wouldn't have gone ahead if Pallasgreen-Cahir has any chance of going ahead soon, especially with all the services already along this relatively low trafficed route

Pallasgreen Cahir and the whole N24 upgrade is basically dead. The N20/M20 was ahead of it and that got cancelled. We won't see any upgrade to the N24 for at least 15-20 years and that's plenty of time for a return on the investment on that filling station.

road_high · 11-07-2015 4:52pm

touts wrote: »

Pallasgreen Cahir and the whole N24 upgrade is basically dead. The N20/M20 was ahead of it and that got cancelled. We won't see any upgrade to the N24 for at least 15-20 years and that's plenty of time for a return on the investment on that filling station.

I think that's really sad. Desperate road with a poor safety record. Infrastructure pays back in spades but sadly no one in this country seems to acknowledge that.
Even if they borrowed a few billion at the low rates they're always banging on about and built a few key neglected projects like this, it would be money well spent in my view.

The Megaphone · 17-07-2015 10:44am

The road isn't that bad, a few things:

touts wrote: »

The stretch into Bansha has seen a few fatal crashes as people try to avail of the first decent straight stretch in about 20 minutes in either direction.

You're exaggerating, Bansha is 10 minutes from Cahir and less than 10 minutes from Tipp and there are loads of overtaking opportunities - how about on the far side of Kilmoyler on the approach to Tankerstown Cross?

touts wrote: »

Bansha village is a 50kph which often has a Garda speed trap.

With the exception of Dromkeen (where a recent traffic calming scheme was completed), all towns and villages are posted at 50km/h

touts wrote: »

It is impossible to do 100kph let alone speed.

Don't confuse the speed limit with the speed that a road can be safely traveled.

touts wrote: »

So basically you see locals slow down to less than the speed limit but that irritates drivers behind them who don't realise the limit is 50 and that unmarked van on the side of the road is quite possibly a Garda van.

These speed limit zones are not a secret, they are sign posted!!

touts wrote: »

Oola to limerick pallasgreen is ok but limited overtaking options and the road narrows considerably at a couple of ageing railway bridges. If you meet a truck on a bridge you have no choice but to give way or go under the truck.

A ridiculous statement, there is one narrow road over rail bridge between Oola and Pallasgreen at Ballyfookeen called Brooke's Bridge - I've seen two Artics negotiate it, and can't recall the last the time there was even a collision at this location.

touts wrote: »

So personally I would upgrade Limerick to Cahir first and within that the Tipp town to Cahir section basically needs complete replacement.

I have to disagree, the Cahir to Clonmel section offers little to no overtaking sections and an outer ring road around Clonmel is badly needed.

callaway92 · 21-07-2015 4:59pm

The Megaphone wrote: »

The road isn't that bad, a few things:

You're exaggerating, Bansha is 10 minutes from Cahir and less than 10 minutes from Tipp and there are loads of overtaking opportunities - how about on the far side of Kilmoyler on the approach to Tankerstown Cross?

There is 2 - the primary school just past the bridge where there was a near fatal accident last year and also the stretch near the car garage (I forget the name)

Both of these stretches are not safe for overtaking though I find

They road is tight enough too, so if it's a wide load you are behind, it is very awkward and unsafe. There is always tractors/trucks on the road daily too which makes the Limerick commute a tough one.

marno21 · 22-07-2015 1:57am

callaway92 wrote: »

There is 2 - the primary school just past the bridge where there was a near fatal accident last year and also the stretch near the car garage (I forget the name)

Both of these stretches are not safe for overtaking though I find

They road is tight enough too, so if it's a wide load you are behind, it is very awkward and unsafe. There is always tractors/trucks on the road daily too which makes the Limerick commute a tough one.

Says enough tbh.

The Megaphone · 23-07-2015 10:29pm

marno21 wrote: »

Says enough tbh.

Actually it says nothing into the cause of the accident - was driver behavior, vehicles condition, or the weather a factor?

marno21 · 02-12-2016 1:22pm

Is it time to rip up the failed 2+1 pilot scheme on the Piltown bypass?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1202/835952-kilkenny-fatal-crash/

road_high · 03-12-2016 2:37am

marno21 wrote: »

Is it time to rip up the failed 2+1 pilot scheme on the Piltown bypass?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1202/835952-kilkenny-fatal-crash/

Was it at a junction again? Fully upgrade the junction? I like the 2+1, it's just poorly executed. Far too many have died on this (good) road.

road_high · 03-12-2016 3:17am

Had a quick read through some of these posts and boy is it depressing.
Many predicting years back nothing would happen until 2020. It's almost 2017 and I'd say tragically optimistic. Can't remember when I last seen any news or movement relating to any of the N24.

marno21 · 15-12-2016 2:03pm

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/227782/the-carnage-and-the-mayhem-must-stop.html

Calls for a full safety audit on the N24 Piltown BP.

Also raised in the Dail yesterday by Deputy John McGuinness

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2016-12-14a.434

JCX BXC · 17-12-2016 2:11am

Only place that warrants a by-pass is Tipp town, it's the only place that's a nightmare to get through.

The opening of the Tipp town plaza doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this will happen though.

marno21 · 17-12-2016 2:14am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Only place that warrants a by-pass is Tipp town, it's the only place that's a nightmare to get through.

The opening of the Tipp town plaza doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this will happen though.

A Tipp Town bypass is at least 10 years away. Hence opening the Tipp Town plaza.

There will be no improvements to the N24 this side of 2025.

road_high · 18-12-2016 3:48pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Only place that warrants a by-pass is Tipp town, it's the only place that's a nightmare to get through.

The opening of the Tipp town plaza doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this will happen though.

All towns on the N24 warrant bypasses but Tipp is the most pressing.

road_high · 18-12-2016 11:01pm

marno21 wrote: »

A Tipp Town bypass is at least 10 years away. Hence opening the Tipp Town plaza.

There will be no improvements to the N24 this side of 2025.

So depressing but even that could be optimistic...what they should do on routes like this is a series of quality minor improvements- stuff like widening, bend realignments and some climbing lanes would make an enormous difference. I don't know why they won't do these kind of things- they prefer role out grandous new build plans that in reality are going to take decades, if at all.

marno21 · 18-12-2016 11:16pm

road_high wrote: »

So depressing but even that could be optimistic...what they should do on routes like this is a series of quality minor improvements- stuff like widening, bend realignments and some climbing lanes would make an enormous difference. I don't know why they won't do these kind of things- they prefer role out grandous new build plans that in reality are going to take decades, if at all.

The problem is that the "grandous" plans are what is required to provide a basic level of service on these roads, and make them safe. This is especially true of the N24 between Tipp Town and Limerick, and the N21/N22/N25 etc.

spacetweek · 19-12-2016 9:44am

road_high wrote: »

So depressing but even that could be optimistic...what they should do on routes like this is a series of quality minor improvements- stuff like widening, bend realignments and some climbing lanes would make an enormous difference. I don't know why they won't do these kind of things- they prefer role out grandous new build plans that in reality are going to take decades, if at all.

The other way of looking at it is that those minor improvements are just tidying the edges while a huge unmet need is in the centre.

In other countries they would have just gotten on with it and you wouldn't have to wait decades.

road_high · 19-12-2016 10:18am

marno21 wrote: »

The problem is that the "grandous" plans are what is required to provide a basic level of service on these roads, and make them safe. This is especially true of the N24 between Tipp Town and Limerick, and the N21/N22/N25 etc.

The N25 is not too bad except around Castlemartyr where it is of similar "quality" to the N24!
I just think rather than wheeling out these dreams every 10 years, they should be realistic and look at the actual reality and improve what's already there in the interim. It might actually save a few lives as well, rather than doing nothing and allowing bad situations get worse.

marno21 · 11-02-2017 7:04pm

Article on the N24 in the Leader this week:

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/234756/n24-limerick-to-waterford-route-is-the-forgotten-road.html

road_high · 11-02-2017 8:39pm

marno21 wrote: »

Article on the N24 in the Leader this week:

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/234756/n24-limerick-to-waterford-route-is-the-forgotten-road.html

Very good article and on the money points and arguments (for a change). Glad others think the same. I'd say it's a huge impediment to south Tipp especially.

Minister · 05-03-2017 4:58pm

I live in Waterford and regularly have to be in Limerick- exactly 80 miles door to door - for my job by 9 am. To ensure l am on time I leave home at 6.15 if going via N24.

If going via M9 to Kilkenny and on via Ballyraggett, Ballacolla and on to M7 at J21 Borris in Ossory I can leave home at 6.40!!! That route is an extra 22 miles, yet 22 minutes faster!!

This is madness.

Also, the number of accidents on this road must be costing the Irish economy a fortune. The advent of the M9 has saved quite a few lives and ergo the Irish economy some expense. This is a benefit of road improvement that is not often mentioned.

marno21 · 05-03-2017 5:31pm

Minister wrote: »

I live in Waterford and regularly have to be in Limerick- exactly 80 miles door to door - for my job by 9 am. To ensure l am on time I leave home at 6.15 if going via N24.

If going via M9 to Kilkenny and on via Ballyraggett, Ballacolla and on to M7 at J21 Borris in Ossory I can leave home at 6.40!!! That route is an extra 22 miles, yet 22 minutes faster!!

This is madness.

Also, the number of accidents on this road must be costing the Irish economy a fortune. The advent of the M9 has saved quite a few lives and ergo the Irish economy some expense. This is a benefit of road improvement that is not often mentioned.

Very interesting. Could you give a bit more specific information on which parts of Waterford/Limerick you're going to/coming from?

N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

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