Breaking News - Steven Colvert

NiallG4 · 19-06-2014 2:31pm #1

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/irish-sprinter-steven-colvert-fails-drugs-test-30368066.html

ASIMON0V · 19-06-2014 2:44pm

Ouch. I thought that EPO was unusual for a sprinter - but it seems that's not the case. He's declaring his evidence - so its not fair to say much until the B sample is tested.

ecoli · 19-06-2014 2:52pm

ASIMON0V wrote: »

Ouch. I thought that EPO was unusual for a sprinter - but it seems that's not the case. He's declaring his evidence - so its not fair to say much until the B sample is tested.

There are a few cases of sprinters using it (Chambers, Kelli White etc)

There are debates as to the effectiveness on sprinters (both muscle repair and neural activity)

As said the B sample will clear things up one way or another.

rom · 19-06-2014 4:09pm

ecoli wrote: »

There are a few cases of sprinters using it (Chambers, Kelli White etc)

There are debates as to the effectiveness on sprinters (both muscle repair and neural activity)

As said the B sample will clear things up one way or another.

how long will it take for the B sample ?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/other-sports/irsquove-been-accused-of-doping-but-irsquom-innocent-says-irish-athlete-272569.html

dna_leri · 19-06-2014 4:13pm

Victor Conte on Dwain Chambers use of EPO:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/athletics/7403158.stm

EPO was used three days per week during the "corrective phase", which is the first two weeks of a cycle. Typically, it was on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. It was only used once per week during the "maintenance phase" thereafter, typically this was every Wednesday. The dosage was 4,000 IU per injection. The purpose was to increase the red blood cell count and enhance oxygen uptake and utilization. This substance provides a big advantage to sprinters because it enables them to do more track repetitions and obtain a much deeper training load during the off season. EPO becomes undetectable about 72 hours after subcutaneous injection (stomach) and only 24 hours after intravenous injection

Also interesting that Colvert mentions "an iron supplement".

http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/anemia/treatment.html

Treatment of Anemia of Chronic Disease. In general, the best treatment for anemia of chronic diseases is treating the disease itself. In some cases, iron deficiency accompanies the condition and requires iron replacement. Erythropoietin, most often administered with intravenous iron, is used for some patients.

Let's see what the B sample shows

ecoli · 19-06-2014 4:21pm

rom wrote: »

how long will it take for the B sample ?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/other-sports/irsquove-been-accused-of-doping-but-irsquom-innocent-says-irish-athlete-272569.html

I think it can take up to 6-8 weeks atleast for blood tests to get tested and notify the athlete

rom · 19-06-2014 4:54pm

dna_leri wrote: »

Victor Conte on Dwain Chambers use of EPO:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/athletics/7403158.stm

Also interesting that Colvert mentions "an iron supplement".

http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/anemia/treatment.html

Let's see what the B sample shows

My wife has been told to take Galfer as her iron is low but for athlete who does not believe in supplements its a strange one to take. It will make you constipated which is not ideal for any distance. If he believes that in getting iron through food then why isn't he eating liver or dark green veg etc.

The context around how the test was carried out is irrelevant.

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/aldi-price-comparison/Womens_Health_And_Family_Planning/Activ_Max_Womens_Health_Evening_Primrose_Oil_500mg_Capsules_45.html

Perhaps EPO = Evening Primrose Oil. (too soon but couldn't help myself)

Why is it not the case that the B sample is automatically tested against a finding on the A sample? It is very rare that the B sample is not tested in such a situation. It should be then that this would be made public. If it is the case that it is a false positive then the process of disclosure is flawed. However how often does the B sample revert the A decision? very rare indeed.

ChickenTikka · 19-06-2014 4:59pm

Per www.eirpharm.com, galfer is a permitted substance:

Sports

Galfer Capsules
WADA Status: Permitted
You should record your reference number: 226654
19/06/2014 16:57:50
Drug category: Iron Supplement
Used for: Iron Supplementation
Explanation of status: Permitted when used in accordance with the product's Marketing Authorisation.
Ingredient Status
Ferrous fumarate 305mg Permitted
Intravenous infusions are prohibited except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions or clinical investigations.

Krusty_Clown · 19-06-2014 5:09pm

dna_leri wrote: »

Victor Conte on Dwain Chambers use of EPO:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/athletics/7403158.stm

That is absolutely crazy. How could you not feel like the greatest cheat on the planet, with every syringe into the stomach? A great read....

LacticAthlete · 19-06-2014 5:42pm

@rom Most distance runners with a brain take some form of iron supplement like ferrograd c or galfer.

"Irish distance runner Martin Fagan has just returned from a two-year ban after testing positive for EPO in 2012, but he openly admitted to taking the substance."

Colvert obviously wouldn't let IOR do any reps with him. "is this pace too fast for you stephen?"

SWL · 19-06-2014 5:50pm

NiallG4 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/irish-sprinter-steven-colvert-fails-drugs-test-30368066.html

Taking iron is not going to give you a positive for EPO, complete BS, that is not how the body works, nor how iron or EPO affects the blood, if its was that simple every "fun runner" would be in trouble.

RayCun · 19-06-2014 6:30pm

SWL wrote: »

Taking iron is not going to give you a positive for EPO, complete BS, that is not how the body works, nor how iron or EPO affects the blood, if its was that simple every "fun runner" would be in trouble.

I don't think he's saying the iron caused the positive, he's saying they are the only supplements he has taken

Stazza · 19-06-2014 6:35pm

LacticAthlete wrote: »

@rom Most distance runners with a brain take some form of iron supplement like ferrograd c or galfer.

{Off topic, but responding to quote}
Before everybody heads off to the Chemist and stocks up on iron - not a good idea, especially if you're male. Men are good at storing iron and supplementing with iron can lead to serious problems. In fact, there are probably only a handful of distance runners on here that should even think about supplementing with iron.

And for those that do take iron supplements, you shouldn't take them with calcium. Calcium in the morning; iron at night - with Vit C.

For the record, I supplement with iron:2 months on - 1 month off. Although my diet is iron rich, I'm running around 100 mpw.

Think carefully before using iron supplements...

rom · 19-06-2014 10:15pm

Stazza wrote: »

LacticAthlete wrote: »

@rom Most distance runners with a brain take some form of iron supplement like ferrograd c or galfer.

{Off topic, but responding to quote}
Before everybody heads off to the Chemist and stocks up on iron - not a good idea, especially if you're male. Men are good at storing iron and supplementing with iron can lead to serious problems. In fact, there are probably only a handful of distance runners on here that should even think about supplementing with iron.

And for those that do take iron supplements, you shouldn't take them with calcium. Calcium in the morning; iron at night - with Vit C.

For the record, I supplement with iron:2 months on - 1 month off. Although my diet is iron rich, I'm running around 100 mpw.

Think carefully before using iron supplements...

Of course you are in that handful :rolleyes:

Increase your ferritin level can be done by eating better and more iron rich food. Why would you take a supplement if you are not doing that right?

Clearlier · 20-06-2014 1:11am

rom wrote: »

Why is it not the case that the B sample is automatically tested against a finding on the A sample? It is very rare that the B sample is not tested in such a situation. It should be then that this would be made public. If it is the case that it is a false positive then the process of disclosure is flawed. However how often does the B sample revert the A decision? very rare indeed.

Some athletes admut culpability after the first test so there's no need to do the second test but more importantly IIRC the athlete is permitted to be present at the second test hence no automatic testing of the second half of the sample. The risk as one headline put it so memorably about ten years ago is that someone will take the piss!

rom · 20-06-2014 2:47am

Clearlier wrote: »

Some athletes admut culpability after the first test so there's no need to do the second test but more importantly IIRC the athlete is permitted to be present at the second test hence no automatic testing of the second half of the sample. The risk as one headline put it so memorably about ten years ago is that someone will take the piss!

Why doesn't this go public when :
A the athlete admits.
B the 2nd sample proves it also.

It seems to me that guilt is established and it goes public before that so it in the case where the 2nd sample may tell otherwise the damage is done.

Clearlier · 20-06-2014 2:59am

rom wrote: »

Why doesn't this go public when :
A the athlete admits.
B the 2nd sample proves it also.

It seems to me that guilt is established and it goes public before that so it in the case where the 2nd sample may tell otherwise the damage is done.

I completely agree. It certainly used to be the case that the testing authorities would only make an announcement after either of the 2 conditions you mention were met. I don't know who has released the information in this case. In the past some dopers have used the gap between A and B tests to launch a PR offensive so perhaps policy has changed about releasing the results of an A test although it would seem unfair. I can only recall one public case of an A sample being positive and a B being negative although that was some time ago and I can't remember who the athlete was. IIRC testing protocols were subsequently amended because of that case.

Clum · 20-06-2014 11:12am

If Steven had a big sponsor (like a major shoe manufacturer) I don't think it would matter that he tested positive.

Bans aren't being taken seriously anymore.

Tyson Gay got 12 months. Powell and Simpson have had their suspensions suspended meaning they served just under a year out of competition.

What happened to 2 year bans?

If Colvert's B sample gives him the all clear and (getting way ahead of myself) he progresses to qualify for the 100m World Championships final in Beijing next year lining up against Powell, Gay, Gatlin and Chambers would anybody really care? <snip>

Being a relatively unknown in international sprinting they'll throw the book at him but the same should be happening to all other dopers too.

ecoli · 20-06-2014 11:24am

Clum wrote: »

If Steven had a big sponsor (like a major shoe manufacturer) I don't think it would matter that he tested positive.

Bans aren't being taken seriously anymore.

Tyson Gay got 12 months. Powell and Simpson have had their suspensions suspended meaning they served just under a year out of competition.

What happened to 2 year bans?

If Colvert's B sample gives him the all clear and (getting way ahead of myself) he progresses to qualify for the 100m World Championships final in Beijing next year lining up against Powell, Gay, Gatlin and Chambers would anybody really care?<snip>

Being a relatively unknown in international sprinting they'll throw the book at him but the same should be happening to all other dopers too.

Actually while Powell's ban was reduced to 11 months by WADA it was not signed off on by JADCO so ban is upheld is it was in breach of their charter

“No final decision of, or Consequences of Anti-Doping Rule Violations imposed by the Jamaica Anti-Doping Disciplinary Panel shall be quashed, varied, or held invalid by any court, arbitrator, tribunal or other hearing body other than the Jamaica Anti-Doping Appeals Tribunal or CAS for any reason, including for reason of any defect, irregularity, omission or departure from the procedures set out in these Anti-Doping Rules, provided there has been no miscarriage of justice.”

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/We-couldn-t-sign-document-reducing-Powell-s-ban----JADCO

TFBubendorfer · 20-06-2014 11:24am

<mod>A gentle reminder of the charter, guys. Please leave out the speculation and stick to the known facts</mod>

walshb · 20-06-2014 11:43am

Almost all drugs cheats protest vehemently their innocence, but am I naive to see something sincere and honest with this protestation?

dna_leri · 20-06-2014 11:47am

Clum wrote: »

If Steven had a big sponsor (like a major shoe manufacturer) I don't think it would matter that he tested positive.

Bans aren't being taken seriously anymore.

Tyson Gay got 12 months. Powell and Simpson have had their suspensions suspended meaning they served just under a year out of competition.

Being a relatively unknown in international sprinting they'll throw the book at him but the same should be happening to all other dopers too.

That's not always true. Most sponsors will drop you like a hot sh1t if you test positive as Adidas did with Gay:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/10180187/Tyson-Gays-sponsorship-deal-with-Adidas-suspended-after-positive-out-of-competition-dope-test.html

Dwain Chambers sponsors are still thin on the ground - he uses his own logo clothing brand.

Krusty_Clown · 20-06-2014 12:03pm

Clum wrote: »

Tyson Gay got 12 months. Powell and Simpson have had their suspensions suspended meaning they served just under a year out of competition.

I wonder if they get tested during their bans? Wouldn't it be a great opportunity to dope up and get a year of uninterrupted training under the belt?

SWL · 20-06-2014 1:19pm

RayCun wrote: »

I don't think he's saying the iron caused the positive, he's saying they are the only supplements he has taken

If this sprinter hasn't been to altitude, never tested positive for EPO and the only supplement taken is an iron tablet then he needs to get to a lab straightaway, his kidney are clearly acting out of the norm for humans, people don't just fail EPO tests out of the blue, if his B sample is positive, where and how did he get the EPO, he is based in Ireland I believe?

Pherekydes · 20-06-2014 1:26pm

The real question in all this is why the blood sample didn't show up EPO?

If the two samples are different then surely the blood sample takes precedence?

RayCun · 20-06-2014 1:34pm

SWL wrote: »

If this sprinter hasn't been to altitude, never tested positive for EPO and the only supplement taken is an iron tablet then he needs to get to a lab straightaway, his kidney are clearly acting out of the norm for humans, people don't just fail EPO tests out of the blue, if his B sample is positive, where and how did he get the EPO, he is based in Ireland I believe?

He says he thinks there has been some sort of error or false positive, and that will be demonstrated when his B sample is tested.

ecoli · 20-06-2014 1:44pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

The real question in all this is why the blood sample didn't show up EPO?

If the two samples are different then surely the blood sample takes precedence?

I think the blood test results take longer to come back so results probably aren't know as of yet

RayCun wrote: »

He says he thinks there has been some sort of error or false positive, and that will be demonstrated when his B sample is tested.

Exactly I think best to hold off any sort of witch hunt until the B results come back. False positives in the general testing process (this would not just be confined to WADA sports testing) have been found to produce false positives and negatives in anything between 5%-15% of tests carried out* so it is not out of realms of reality.

*research paper pending peer review

MacSwifty · 20-06-2014 1:55pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

The real question in all this is why the blood sample didn't show up EPO?

If the two samples are different then surely the blood sample takes precedence?

From http://www.antidopingresearch.org/EPOtestJuly08.pdf

EPO (erythropoietin) is a natural hormone and a blood booster. It is also available as a pharmaceutical.The use of this artificial form, or recombinant EPO, to enhance performance by boosting endurance, is prohibited.

Historically, the EPO test at the Olympics (2000 to 2006) was done on a pair of urine and blood samples collected from the athlete at the same time. The urine test identifies the prohibited substance, therefore it is called a direct test. In contrast, the blood test is called an indirect test because it does not show the presence of recombinant EPO. Instead, it shows the “footprints” of drug use, in other words its impact on multiple lab readings on the blood. The readings are used to calculate a score which indicates whether the person is on a prohibited blood booster (“on score”) or recently stopped taking it (“off score”). Since 2002, EPO tests done by U.S. sports authorities have consisted of only the urine test.

dna_leri · 20-06-2014 2:23pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I wonder if they get tested during their bans? Wouldn't it be a great opportunity to dope up and get a year of uninterrupted training under the belt?

Athletes remain on the National Registered Testing Pool unless they officially retire. If they change their mind and want to return to competition then they must give 12 months notice and make themselves available for testing.

Correction it is 6 months in Ireland - see
http://hp.athleticsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=90&Itemid=178

BTW - interesting that the page above has 2 links to purchasing viagra

Murph_D · 20-06-2014 3:04pm

Clearlier wrote: »

<Snip>I don't know who has released the information in this case.....

Sounds like he released it himself?

"I'm coming forward with this finding because I have nothing to hide and I'm happy to have complete transparency into the whole ordeal," he added.

drquirky · 20-06-2014 3:37pm

At least some good has come from all of this I managed to get myself rebuked but the one and only "Brezzie" on twitter over this for a "condescending tweet"

:D:D:D:D

Breaking News - Steven Colvert

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