Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

bk · 30-10-2012 2:37pm

Got the Aircoach 7pm ex-Cork yesterday. The 7pm was a Jonckheere, so looks like they still aren't at 100% toilet equipped yet.

The 7pm was totally full (Jazz bank holiday weekend), so Aircoach brought in another "hire-in" coach from Mallow Coaches (no wifi or toilet) a few minutes later to take the 30 people left behind.

It seems the 6pm was full too, it seems people who couldn't get on that, their names were taken and they were first on the 7pm after people with internet bookings for the 7pm. Very fair.

There was a very nice chap from Aircoach on the ground there organising all of this and ensuring everyone that they would be looked after. I overheard him saying to a driver that they were going to bring in the hire-in as there was no point in disappointing people. I have to say a very good attitude to have. Keep up the good work Aircoach.

So it looks like Aircoach will be able to handle increased numbers at busy times.

It seems they didn't have hire-ins for the 6pm, instead putting extra people on the 7pm. I think that is pretty fair, specially as people could always try the 6:30 GoBe just across the road.

The Aircoach gentleman was recommending to people to book online in future. But I have a definite problem with that, you can only book before 5pm the previous day, which isn't very flexible.

I had a few friends down this weekend and while they all had taken Aircoach down. They all ended up taking GoBe back as they hadn't realised you had to book the ticket back before 5pm. Instead they booked the GoBE ticket on their phone the same day. They will now probably use GoBE in future.

GoBE's online booking is far more flexible, allowing bookings online up to an hour in advance. I know myself that I'm struggling to decide to continue to use Aircoach or GoBE.

Aircoach have better more convenient stop locations (in Dublin), better time table and I think they should be rewarded for being the innovators here. On the other hand GoBE are 100% toilet equipped and I find being able to book an hour in advance for more convenient. It means I can guarantee a seat, while still having the flexibility to choose when to go.

Aircoach need to fix this issue. There is no reason why you couldn't take bookings online up to 15 minutes in advance. All they need is to give their drivers either a smart phone or one of those new cheap Goggle tablets to connect to the Aircoach website and check off the tickets as people board. This is what GoBus do.

A mobile optimised website for booking both from GoBe and Aircoach would also be a good idea, but not urgent.

Also I definitely feel there is strong business there for either GoBE or Aircoach to fill that 6 hour gap in schedule between 7pm and 1am. I usually get the 7pm and it always seems very busy. I think a 9pm ex-Cork getting in at 12 would be very popular.

foggy_lad · 30-10-2012 3:35pm

I have seen that nice looking Mallow Coaches bus in Dublin a few times but thought it was doing "extra bus" for the GoBe service.

bk · 30-10-2012 3:58pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

I have seen that nice looking Mallow Coaches bus in Dublin a few times but thought it was doing "extra bus" for the GoBe service.

It could have been, it is a hire-in, so could operate for either company.

Though the one I was on didn't have toilets, so I don't think it would be on GoBE as they guarantee toilets on board?

http://www.mallowcoaches.com/Fleet.html

It looks like it was the Volvo Jonckheere 43 seats, really nothing special, it was cold on board, no toilet or wifi, ok but not great legroom and seats only ok.

Perhaps GoBE are using the Vanhool 51 Seater (or the Vanhool 53 seater), both of which have toilet on board and being a Vanhool would be en excellent, top tier coach. Would love to take a ride on that one.

Lucyn · 30-10-2012 4:28pm

I got the 7pm aircoach from Dublin to Cork last night and it was the same on Westmoreland St. A very helpful young man ensuring everyone got on and reassuring us that there was another bus around the corner should it be needed. As I was sitting at the front I heard him talking to the driver before we left and they seemed extremely well organised for the day that was in it.

I wish it was like that everyday, as Friday evenings can be a bit mental.

foggy_lad · 30-10-2012 7:42pm

bk wrote: »

It could have been, it is a hire-in, so could operate for either company.

Though the one I was on didn't have toilets, so I don't think it would be on GoBE as they guarantee toilets on board?

http://www.mallowcoaches.com/Fleet.html

It looks like it was the Volvo Jonckheere 43 seats, really nothing special, it was cold on board, no toilet or wifi, ok but not great legroom and seats only ok.

Perhaps GoBE are using the Vanhool 51 Seater (or the Vanhool 53 seater), both of which have toilet on board and being a Vanhool would be en excellent, top tier coach. Would love to take a ride on that one.

The ones I saw looked more like the Vanhool 51/53 seater coaches on their fleet page but I only saw them from the front and side.

foggy_lad · 30-10-2012 7:48pm

Lucyn wrote: »

I got the 7pm aircoach from Dublin to Cork last night and it was the same on Westmoreland St. A very helpful young man ensuring everyone got on and reassuring us that there was another bus around the corner should it be needed. As I was sitting at the front I heard him talking to the driver before we left and they seemed extremely well organised for the day that was in it.

I wish it was like that everyday, as Friday evenings can be a bit mental.

Bus Éireann have also improved their organisation for Bank holidays, when getting a bus on Friday from Busáras there was two extra coaches marked for Carlow/Kilkenny as well as at least one other Bus Éireann bus going to Waterford, and this was for the 5.30pm service.

Hogzy · 06-11-2012 8:29pm

A major advantage to GoBe/GoBus is that you can change your return trip as long as you give 1 hour notice. VERY HANDY.

bk · 06-11-2012 8:44pm

Hogzy wrote: »

A major advantage to GoBe/GoBus is that you can change your return trip as long as you give 1 hour notice. VERY HANDY.

Can you do this online or do you have to call?

Of course given that a single is €10 and a return is €20 and you can buy a ticket up until 60 minutes before departure, then there is no advantage to actually buying a return in the first place.

BTW Aircoach is even more flexible. While you are guaranteed a seat on the date and time specified, the out bound journey can be used on any bus on the date specified and the return journey can be used on any date and time. No need to change your booking.

However I think you can contact Aircoach during office hours to change your specified date and time to guarantee your seat.

devnull · 06-11-2012 9:15pm

Hogzy wrote: »

A major advantage to GoBe/GoBus is that you can change your return trip as long as you give 1 hour notice. VERY HANDY.

It's hardly a major advantage, as it's less flexible than Aircoach.

Hogzy · 06-11-2012 9:19pm

devnull wrote: »

It's hardly a major advantage, as it's less flexible than Aircoach.

Didnt know you could take any bus with aircoach.

devnull · 06-11-2012 9:22pm

See ticket validity on:
http://www.aircoach.ie/aircoach.disclaimer.php

bk · 06-11-2012 10:01pm

Hogzy, can you answer this question:

Can you do this online or do you have to call?

Hogzy · 06-11-2012 10:05pm

bk wrote: »

Hogzy, can you answer this question:

Can you do this online or do you have to call?

Sorry, I had to call.

I had a bit of a disasterous travel experience last Saturday as the Aircoach was full and I couldnt pre book.

Turned up at the Aircoach stop last week for the 2pm bus, didnt pre book as I only decided to go to Dublin last minute. Bus was full so decided to take the half 2 bus with gobus. Obviously needed to book this 1hr in advance but I called up and they told me to book the 16:30 bus and that the driver would have no problem allowing me on the 14:30 bus as long as it wasnt full (it wasnt and I got on). My return trip with gobus was booked for Sunday at 22:30 but I called up at 20:00 to change that booking to Monday lunch time. Girl on the phone was very helpful and the phone call lasted the bones of 60 seconds.

So yes, you do have to call up the Galway office if you need to change.

bk · 07-11-2012 12:31am

Hogzy wrote: »

Sorry, I had to call.

Thanks for the info, good to know.

Hogzy wrote: »

Turned up at the Aircoach stop last week for the 2pm bus, didnt pre book as I only decided to go to Dublin last minute. Bus was full so decided to take the half 2 bus with gobus.

The Jazz weekend? Yes it was VERY busy that weekend.

FYI, you had a few other options.

1) The driver on the Aircoach 2pm bus could have sold you a ticket for the 3pm bus. People with online bookings for the 3pm would be first on, but you would be next in line after that. Much of the weekend Aircoach had a chap in Cork handling this.

2) You could buy a ticket for the 14:30 GoBE bus using the ticket machines in BusAras. It would have been more expensive €15/25 single/return. However calling and changing the ticket details was a nice trick

Good to see both of these services doing so well.

With passenger numbers like this, hopefully they will expand the schedule and invest in more newer coaches.

toadpenguin · 10-11-2012 10:03pm

Seeing as this has become the de-facto thread for Aircoach discussion and questions, I had a bad experience today on the Cork-Dublin express.

I booked my return ticket online, leaving at 07:00 and returning at 15:00 and they charged me €18 for it. I assumed I could use the return portion of it for any time as specified in the disclaimer on their website:

You can, however, use the return portion of your ticket on any journey, on any date, on your chosen route.

I got on the 16:00 bus in Dublin and the driver told me that my ticket was only valid for the 15:00 which had left an hour earlier. I tried telling him it was valid for any time on the day, as was specified on their website but he said something about it not being "that ticket", and because it was cheaper than usual (something which I was completely unaware of), it was only valid for the time specified. I ended up having to pay another €15 for a single ticket back to Cork.

I didn't take it up with the bus driver again, but can anyone tell me if I have a leg to stand on here, or if Aircoach were right to only make the ticket valid for the exact time specified?

foggy_lad · 10-11-2012 10:43pm

toadpenguin wrote: »

Seeing as this has become the de-facto thread for Aircoach discussion and questions, I had a bad experience today on the Cork-Dublin express.

I booked my return ticket online, leaving at 07:00 and returning at 15:00 and they charged me €18 for it. I assumed I could use the return portion of it for any time as specified in the disclaimer on their website:

I got on the 16:00 bus in Dublin and the driver told me that my ticket was only valid for the 15:00 which had left an hour earlier. I tried telling him it was valid for any time on the day, as was specified on their website but he said something about it not being "that ticket", and because it was cheaper than usual (something which I was completely unaware of), it was only valid for the time specified. I ended up having to pay another €15 for a single ticket back to Cork.

I didn't take it up with the bus driver again, but can anyone tell me if I have a leg to stand on here, or if Aircoach were right to only make the ticket valid for the exact time specified?

The only €18 tickets available on the website are the adult single Cork-Dublin Airport or a child return on the same route, did you mistakenly book a single to the Airport? or did you get some special offer booking?

If you booked a special offer it may have had different terms and conditions in place which you should have been notified of at the time of booking.

You should email Aircoach and see what they say as it looks like their driver may have got it wrong.

toadpenguin · 11-11-2012 12:13am

Thanks for the reply, I've just gone on their website and picked the exact same journey with the exact same times for this day next week (the 17th) as an experiment, and it's still showing up as €18. Definitely a return and definitely an adult ticket. Can someone else try this too just to make sure it's not a problem on my end? :')

If there was any special offer and/or any special conditions I'm pretty sure I wasn't notified of them during the booking.

I'm going to wait and hear a few more opinions before I go sending a strongly-worded email to Aircoach, just in case there's something I'm not seeing here.

EDIT: Just found this tweet from them from the start of September, that's the only thing resembling a promotional offer announcement I can see, and no indication of how long the fare stays like that for. Either way, the disclaimer on their website says nothing about promotional fares.

foggy_lad · 11-11-2012 12:59am

Here is their news page showing the promotional fares to and from Cork but there is nothing about different terms and conditions applying.

http://www.aircoach.ie/news.article.php?ID=373

NEW PROMOTIONAL ONLINE FARE - CORK ROUTE
3rd September 2012

Book online on any Aircoach's hourly service between Dublin City and Cork City between now and the end of September and travel for just €9, from Dublin Airport to Cork City for just €15. Excellent return fares also on offer why wait go online now and book. Remember book now and travel anytime.

AlekSmart · 11-11-2012 2:13am

toadpenguin wrote: »

Seeing as this has become the de-facto thread for Aircoach discussion and questions, I had a bad experience today on the Cork-Dublin express.

I booked my return ticket online, leaving at 07:00 and returning at 15:00 and they charged me €18 for it. I assumed I could use the return portion of it for any time as specified in the disclaimer on their website:

I got on the 16:00 bus in Dublin and the driver told me that my ticket was only valid for the 15:00 which had left an hour earlier. I tried telling him it was valid for any time on the day, as was specified on their website but he said something about it not being "that ticket", and because it was cheaper than usual (something which I was completely unaware of), it was only valid for the time specified. I ended up having to pay another €15 for a single ticket back to Cork.

I didn't take it up with the bus driver again, but can anyone tell me if I have a leg to stand on here, or if Aircoach were right to only make the ticket valid for the exact time specified?

Maybe I'm missing something too,but you booked online,yes ?

The quotation from the Aircoach site which you use is part of this....

Return Tickets purchased on the coach or from our Customer Service Team at Dublin Airport. The outward portion of your ticket is only valid on the journey on which they are purchased or, if purchased from our Customer Service Team at Dublin Airport, on the next departures from the Airport. You can use the return portion of your ticket on any journey, on any date, on your chosen route.

The situation for Online booked Tickets is a tad ambiguous though,as it differentiates between a seat guarantee and general availability....

Return Tickets booked online. The outward portion of your booking will be accepted for travel on any departure on your chosen route, on the date specified on your booking. Your seat is only guaranteed on the timed journey (where applicable) specified on your booking. On presenting your booking confirmation you will be issued with a Return Ticket. Please keep this Return Ticket safe as you will need it for your return journey. You will be unable to board the coach without the Return Ticket issued on your outward journey. For the return journey your seat is only guaranteed on the date and timed journey (where applicable) specified on your booking. You can, however, use the return portion of your ticket on any journey, on any date, on your chosen route.

I'm suggesting the Driver was/is correct as the actual return journey did not tally with the ticket details,therefore you were denied boarding.

I'm leaning towards the Website wording being incorrect,with the any-journey,any-date stipulation text being wrongfully inserted after the online details..??

Their wording is clear as mud,for sure,but it will be interesting to hear what their stance is ?

foggy_lad · 11-11-2012 2:29am

AlekSmart wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something too,but you booked online,yes ?

The quotation from the Aircoach site which you use is part of this....

The situation for Online booked Tickets is a tad ambiguous though,as it differentiates between a seat guarantee and general availability....

I'm suggesting the Driver was/is correct as the actual return journey did not tally with the ticket details,therefore you were denied boarding.

I'm leaning towards the Website wording being incorrect,with the any-journey,any-date stipulation text being wrongfully inserted after the online details..??

Their wording is clear as mud,for sure,but it will be interesting to hear what their stance is ?

It is not as complicated as that Alex, the on-line return ticket only guarantees a seat on the return leg if a date and time are chosen and the passenger decides to use that service. If the passenger wants to use a different bus they may do so.

http://www.aircoach.ie/aircoach.disclaimer.php

Return Tickets booked on-line. The outward portion of your booking will be accepted for travel on any departure on your chosen route, on the date specified on your booking. Your seat is only guaranteed on the timed journey (where applicable) specified on your booking. On presenting your booking confirmation you will be issued with a Return Ticket. Please keep this Return Ticket safe as you will need it for your return journey. You will be unable to board the coach without the Return Ticket issued on your outward journey. For the return journey your seat is only guaranteed on the date and timed journey (where applicable) specified on your booking. You can, however, use the return portion of your ticket on any journey, on any date, on your chosen route.

To me this reads that the outward journey must be taken on the date of travel on your booking receipt but you may chose any service on this date(although you are only guaranteed a seat on the service listed on your booking)

This part is stating that you may travel on any date and time for the return portion of your ticket but your seat is only guaranteed on the date and timed service specified at time of booking(if applicable)

dfx- · 11-11-2012 7:36am

Have utilised this service for the past two journeys to/from Cork, latest was last week. That 7pm-1am break is infuriating. Last week I would've been able to make any service later than 7pm so had to wait until the 3am service, given the 1am service has been full on both occasions.

First outward journey was a small coach - one of these, not comfortable, last three have been Jonckheeres, 20664 on Friday morning. Fantastic leg room, much prefer the Jonckheeres. Bonus for the night time returns is no stop in Urlingford

Great service, except for that ridiculous night gap returning from Cork

cabincrewifly · 11-11-2012 2:40pm

I agree about the smaller coaches. There a lot less comfterble. Last time I used AirCoach it was on ome of them and on a packed bus not a spare seat and the air con didn't work.

foggy_lad · 11-11-2012 6:17pm

cabincrewifly wrote: »

I agree about the smaller coaches. There a lot less comfterble. Last time I used AirCoach it was on ome of them and on a packed bus not a spare seat and the air con didn't work.

That would be like spending 90minutes in one of those awful commuter sardine cans that bus eireaann use on the 101 & 126 routes where the seats have all been bunched up to make enough room for the wheelchair spaces which afaik have never been used outside of photo opportunities.
Certainly not worth paying full price for when GoBe uses real coaches.

bk · 12-11-2012 12:05am

toadpenguin I believe the driver was wrong with this.

As long as there was space on the coach (after people who had a specific booking for that coach), then you were entitled to travel on it per Aircoachs Terms and Conditions [1].

I would contact Aircoach and I assume they will refund you and hopefully they will correct their misinformed driver. Let us know here how it goes.

As to the "smaller" coach, it actually isn't smaller, it is actually a new (second hand) Levante coach brought in to replace the Jocnckheeres. The reason it has less leg room and also the reason it is replacing the Joncks is because it has a toilet onboard, unlike the Jonck.

They need to have a toilet onboard so they don't have to stop half way and end up arriving behind schedule, while their competitor GoBE have toilet equipped coaches.

The Jnockheeres are actually almost the very best coach in Ireland with their fully leather seats, massive amounts of leg room and great build quality and ride. But unfortunately they don't have a toilet.

It is an unfortunate trade off. But hopefully a temporary one, they have just gotten a new 2012 Setra, which from reports is a fantastic coach. All the leg room, build quality and comfort of the Jonck, but with a toilet onboard.

Rumour has it more maybe coming, so hopefully the Levante is just a temporary stop gap measure.

BTW GoBE aren't particularly great either. They are currently using lots of hire in's of varying quality, I've yet to travel on a GoBE coach with working wifi and even their two new 2012 coaches are Volvos which don't have great leg room due to their tiered seating style, certainly no where near as good as the Jonck's

highlydebased · 12-11-2012 9:58am

foggy_lad wrote: »

That would be like spending 90minutes in one of those awful commuter sardine cans that bus eireaann use on the 101 & 126 routes where the seats have all been bunched up to make enough room for the wheelchair spaces which afaik have never been used outside of photo opportunities.
Certainly not worth paying full price for when GoBe uses real coaches.

Have you observed every single bus fitted with these on every single service it operates before you arrived at that conclusion?

foggy_lad · 12-11-2012 12:12pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Have you observed every single bus fitted with these on every single service it operates before you arrived at that conclusion?

in all the travel I have undertaken by bus around Ireland I have never seen a wheelchair user on any Bus Éireann service apart from their City services. Actually I am mistaken, about 4 years ago I saw a wheelchair user Board the bus in Carlow but although the bus was wheelchair accessible the seats had not been removed and the man had to get out of his chair and bump himself up the dirty steps on his knees while another passenger put his wheelchair in the luggage hold.

Jamie2k9 · 13-11-2012 1:05am

Today I saw one of these buses passing down towords Heuston and there was only 15 passengers onboards and that was at 17.00. Just how long will both operators be able to sustain a service with poor loads. I saw a Gobus on Friday afternoon and there was 22 max on it.

bk · 13-11-2012 1:17am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Today I saw one of these buses passing down towords Heuston and there was only 15 passengers onboards and that was at 17.00. Just how long will both operators be able to sustain a service with poor loads. I saw a Gobus on Friday afternoon and there was 22 max on it.

I was on the 7pm ex-Cork last week, was totally full. 30 people left behind and a hire in brought in 10 minutes later to take them!!

Two days before I took the GoBE ex-Dublin, totally full.

I have heard of 1am ex-Cork Aircoach are even totally full at times!!!

This weekend took GoBus to Galway and CityLink back, both completely full.

How exactly can you count the number of passengers on board from outside? These coaches are very high and hard to see through the tinted windows. Out of interest I count the number of passengers on board when I'm on board myself and even that is difficult to do accurately when shorter people lie back in the seat.

I can assure you as a regular user of these services, each week I take them they are getting busier and busier. Almost always over 75% by now.

Given that it seems that both Aircoach and GoBE seem to be starting to buy in brand new 2012 coaches, I'm guessing things are going quiet well and they will be here to stay.

Sponge Bob · 13-11-2012 1:49am

1am coaches are generally full of people with early flights. Booking in advance is most advisory. The night services from Galway are very busy.

dfx- · 13-11-2012 3:09am

Coming back from the Rovers game in Cork in August, the 1am service from Cork was absolutely full with 10 people left behind. The 3am service ex-Cork was just under half full on Friday morning and only one other person was getting off in the city with me, everyone else was for the Airport..

One question though...why go in and out of the city via the M50/M4?

foggy_lad · 13-11-2012 4:29am

dfx- wrote: »

Coming back from the Rovers game in Cork in August, the 1am service from Cork was absolutely full with 10 people left behind. The 3am service ex-Cork was just under half full on Friday morning and only one other person was getting off in the city with me, everyone else was for the Airport..

One question though...why go in and out of the city via the M50/M4?

The buses are routed along the m50 and n4 because of the weight restrictions in Inchicore as well as the streets there being residential streets. Only a very small number of buses including bus Eireann's 126 are routed through Inchicore from the Naas road.

Jamie2k9 · 13-11-2012 12:21pm

How exactly can you count the number of passengers on board from outside? These coaches are very high and hard to see through the tinted windows. Out of interest I count the number of passengers on board when I'm on board myself and even that is difficult to do accurately when shorter people lie back in the seat.

I'm a tall person and the bus was stopped and was blocking my path for crossing on the quays. Its not that hard and if you stand back a little you can count either side of it. Its just a poor number for a monday evening I thaught anways. I expect Galway services to be busy as its faster than train.

I also don't know why people post when I was coming back from an event in Cork or Dublin the bus was full, what do you expect the trains would be the same..

bk · 13-11-2012 3:20pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I also don't know why people post when I was coming back from an event in Cork or Dublin the bus was full, what do you expect the trains would be the same..

I take the bus to Cork almost weekly now, at all sorts of different times. My experience is based on this, not on special events.

Galway is so popular because these services have been around for years and are well developed and known now.

The Cork services are only a few months old. I'm still telling people in Cork about these new services, they hadn't heard about them yet!

It takes time to build up awareness and a customer base, it doesn't happen over night.

All I can say is that every time I use them they are busier and busier. Also a driver told me that usage is already far beyond Aircoaches projections.

Finally please explain why both GoBE and Aircoach are buying new 2012 coaches if the service is doing so badly?

Jamie2k9 · 13-11-2012 5:35pm

It was more directed at dfx-

Finally please explain why both GoBE and Aircoach are buying new 2012 coaches if the service is doing so badly?

Could they of launched without buying new buses, they could not buy dated buses if they have a hope of being a success. I would also say that the bus company's don't own them and probably won't for years. They are probably got on the back of loans or Hire Purchase. The reason why people don't know about them is because both company's have not bothered to do any sort of real advertising and until this happens loads will be poor most of the time. What kind of people do these company's have employed in marketing or do they think passengers will just move from train to bus because the work express is on the buses.

It will be intresting to see over the next 6-8 months how thing are between Cork and Dublin with faster train times and these two operators. Who will win lower prices = longer journey or higher prices = shorter journey.

One other thing are the journeys being completed within the timetable?

sligotrain · 13-11-2012 6:48pm

There's room in the market for all modes of transport. Personally I'd rather not be squeezed in like a rabbit in a bus to Cork, no matter how swish the toilets are or how fast my poos get sucked out of it.

bk · 13-11-2012 7:04pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Could they of launched without buying new buses, they could not buy dated buses if they have a hope of being a success.

Well Aircoach had enough coaches from the start, they didn't buy in any new buses when they started the new Cork and Belfast routes. They simply shuffled in coaches from their Dublin Airport routes with a slight reduction in schedule on these routes.

They now seem to be replacing these with both second hand and more recently brand new toilet equipped coaches.

OF course this latest development is due to competition from the entry of GoBE that have all toilet equipped coaches.

But the point is do you really think they would go to all this new investment if the routes weren't performing to expectations or better.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What kind of people do these company's have employed in marketing or do they think passengers will just move from train to bus because the work express is on the buses.

Actually Aircoach have been advertising in Cork. I agree it could be better and more aggressive (e.g. hand out flyers outside the train stations

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It will be intresting to see over the next 6-8 months how thing are between Cork and Dublin with faster train times and these two operators. Who will win lower prices = longer journey or higher prices = shorter journey.

I honestly don't think it will make much difference, the speed improvements don't look like they will be too significant.

2:30 from Cork to Dublin ends up 2:50 when you add the time to get to and from Heuston. So I think most people will be more then happy to lose an extra 10 minutes for a ticket that is 4 times cheaper.

After all, there is already a 2:30 minute train at 5pm Ex-Dublin. It was the train I use to take, I now take the coach at the same time instead and I find I still get there faster *

* I leave later to get the bus, as my Dublin Bus leaves me off at Westmoreland St, right across from the Aircoach stop and I don't have to trudge down to Hueston. Plus I use to always leave earlier for the train as if you miss it, then it costs a lot extra to change your ticket. With the bus, I can simply cross the road and get the GoBE 30 minutes later.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

One other thing are the journeys being completed within the timetable?

Yes, with the exception of the last bank holiday weekend 5pm ex-Dublin got in 15 minutes late, all the rest I've taken have been surprisingly bang on schedule, even early in more then a few cases.

dfx- · 13-11-2012 7:36pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It was more directed at dfx-

My 'event' contributed nothing but 2 customers to the load. The rest were there irrespective. The trains don't run after the match at 11pm, so they were not the same either. Most away fans at this event use supporters' coaches or their own transport.

Jamie2k9 · 13-11-2012 9:31pm

Actually Aircoach have been advertising in Cork. I agree it could be better and more aggressive (e.g. hand out flyers outside the train stations

Shortly after I posted this I heard a GoBus/BE add advertising Galway and then up to 15 daily express services to Cork for €20 return.

My 'event' contributed nothing but 2 customers to the load. The rest were there irrespective. The trains don't run after the match at 11pm, so they were not the same either. Most away fans at this event use supporters' coaches or their own transport.

It was aimed at you and others who say the bus was full etc and this is to be expected after an event. Anyway enough said.

There's room in the market for all modes of transport. Personally I'd rather not be squeezed in like a rabbit in a bus to Cork, no matter how swish the toilets are or how fast my poos get sucked out of it.

There will be room but will all be able to make money on the route. Bus companys will crack before the train as they depent on mainly Cork and Dublin point to point where as trains don't as much.

bk · 13-11-2012 10:42pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There will be room but will all be able to make money on the route. Bus companys will crack before the train as they depent on mainly Cork and Dublin point to point where as trains don't as much.

Well GoBus and Citylink certainly haven't cracked on the Galway route where they have been operating for years now. In fact they seem to be going from strength to strength with completely full coaches, extra coaches at busy times and all new 2012 fleet.

If they can be successful on the Galway route, I can't see why they can't be equally or even more successful on the Cork route which is:

a) Much busier route, thus more passengers to steal from IR and BE
b) The price differential with rail is even greater with the coach being 4 times cheaper then rail on this route, versus just 2 times cheaper to Galway.

Logically I can't see any reason why this route won't be equally or more successful then the Galway route.

BTW you keep saying that intermediate stops are important on this route. Not in my experience, any time I use to travel to Cork, I'd say over 80% of people were going Cork to Dublin.

sligotrain · 14-11-2012 12:58am

You love that zero sum game don't you? Stealing passengers from IE/BE?
Surely you work in the bus game.

Jamie2k9 · 14-11-2012 1:26am

Logically I can't see any reason why this route won't be equally or more successful then the Galway route.

BTW you keep saying that intermediate stops are important on this route. Not in my experience, any time I use to travel to Cork, I'd say over 80% of people were going Cork to Dublin.

I do hope its a success for both operators but I can't see where demand has come for around 30 extra bus services between Cork-Dublin. Can this be suistanable I don't know a lot about Galway route but its such a success as it beats the train where as Cork services don't and won't ever. I'm wondering will both operators be able to keep these low prices long term?

a) Much busier route, thus more passengers to steal from IR and BE
b) The price differential with rail is even greater with the coach being 4 times cheaper then rail on this route, versus just 2 times cheaper to Galway.

BTW you keep saying that intermediate stops are important on this route. Not in my experience, any time I use to travel to Cork, I'd say over 80% of people were going Cork to Dublin.

I don't think there is more passengers to steel from IE because Dublin-Cork line is serving Limerick and Tralee passengers and if these routes had there own two houly service then I could see a 50% drop in direct Cork services as there would be no demand as Limerick and Tralee would also be serving what Cork serves. It would be good if there was a breakdown of the revenue collected for Limerick, Tralee, Mallow, Thurles and Cork passengers on the route.

bk · 14-11-2012 2:18am

sligotrain wrote: »

You love that zero sum game don't you? Stealing passengers from IE/BE?
Surely you work in the bus game.

Nope, just a very happy Corkonian living in Dublin. Now that I pay €18 to get to Cork return instead of €80!!

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I do hope its a success for both operators but I can't see where demand has come for around 30 extra bus services between Cork-Dublin.

Primarily stealing passengers from Bus Eireann and Irish Rail. To a lesser extent from cars:

BE: Obviously these will take most if not all of BE's Dublin to Cork passengers. After all why spending 4 hours in the bus when you can do the same journey in 3 hours for less money!!

IR: Massive price difference. Aircoach €18 return, Irish Rail €47 to €78 depending on when you book, plus another €3.20 for the Luas to and from Hueston.

Currently for the majority of journeys, Aircoach will actually get you into the city center faster then rail + luas. Even once the new 2:30 journey times are introduced, that will still only be 10 minutes faster then the coach. I think many people would be well willing to spend an extra 10 minutes on the coach to save between €32 and €53.

IR carry 2.2 million passengers between Cork and Dublin per year. That is a significant market ripe for the taking.

Car: With ticket prices as low as €18, that is a significant saving over driving between Cork and Dublin in terms of petrol and tolls. I have one friend who use to drive to Cork every weekend, he has now switched to Aircoach/GoBE.

However I admit this is probably the smallest group of people.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Can this be suistanable I don't know a lot about Galway route but its such a success as it beats the train where as Cork services don't and won't ever. I'm wondering will both operators be able to keep these low prices long term?

As I point out above, when you include the time to and from Hueston the coach actually is faster at the moment. Even when it is slower, it is only slower by 10 minutes and when you include the 4 times price difference, that is where you gain the passengers.

On average the train to Galway is only 5 minutes slower. It is the two times price difference that makes the difference. So at 4 times the price difference, the Cork route should be even more successful.

And why can't they keep the prices low? They have on the Galway route, don't see any reason why the Cork route would be different. They might not remain as low as €18 return, but even at €22 they would still be savagely undercutting IR's prices.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I don't think there is more passengers to steel from IE because Dublin-Cork line is serving Limerick and Tralee passengers and if these routes had there own two houly service then I could see a 50% drop in direct Cork services as there would be no demand as Limerick and Tralee would also be serving what Cork serves. It would be good if there was a breakdown of the revenue collected for Limerick, Tralee, Mallow, Thurles and Cork passengers on the route.

The Hueston to Cork daily revenue is €255,026 of a total intercity revenue of €648,000.

So it represents 40% of all of IR's intercity revenue.

Not revenue, but passenger numbers:
Dublin-Cork 2.33 million
Dublin-Tralle .529 million
Dublin-Limerick .660 million
Dublin-Galway .975 million
Dublin-Belfast .889 million

Look at how big the passenger numbers are to Cork versus Galway and you can easily see how ripe for the taking this route is for Aircoach/GoBE.

Here is the other interesting stat, at the start of the year (before Aircaoch/GoBE started up) the breakdown of mode of transport share was:

Car - Bus - Train
Cork
50% - 10% - 40%
Galway
50% - 25% - 25%

Note Galway has a much higher percent of people taking the bus. I believe this is due to the much more well developed, direct bus services being in place for years. However with the launch of Aircoach/GoBE in Cork, the potential for the same shift is there.

Even a similar 15% shift to coach would mean GoBE/Aircoach would gain almost 900,000 passengers from Irish Rail and would potentially gain more from BE.

So Aircoach/GoBE are aiming at a potential market of over 1 million passengers a year!!!!

So when people question will they be successful and will they be able to survive, it is stats and analysis of these stats that make such questions seem ridiculous.

bk · 14-11-2012 2:30am

kieran4003 I can assure you I have no affiliation with any transport company of any kind.

In fact I work as a software engineer and I'm well known by others on boards who can verify that.

My only experience of rail and bus is as a passenger. I'm a Corkonian living in Dublin who has used public transport for the past ten years. By train for most of that time, and by bus for the past 6 months.

My hatred of Irish Rail, well I don't hate Irish Rail, but I do dislike them. I dislike them as they seemed to operate a shoddy, slow, over-expensive service that seemed to be more run for the staff then the passengers.

I'm now delighted to have switched to Cork with their far better schedules and MUCH cheaper prices.

As for the price difference:
47 / 18 = 2.6111111111
77 / 18 = 4.2777777778

And that excludes the cost of the LUAS too and from Heuston.

Also I will point out that up until this year, I normally paid €77 to get to Cork (or the equivalent over the years). I never once got those mythical €10 special offer tickets. The new €47 "special promotion" fare was only introduced earlier this year, I would guess only in response to the competition from these bus companies.

sligotrain · 14-11-2012 8:21am

bk wrote: »

kieran4003 I can assure you I have no affiliation with any transport company of any kind.

In fact I work as a software engineer and I'm well known by others on boards who can verify that.

My only experience of rail and bus is as a passenger. I'm a Corkonian living in Dublin who has used public transport for the past ten years. By train for most of that time, and by bus for the past 6 months.

My hatred of Irish Rail, well I don't hate Irish Rail, but I do dislike them. I dislike them as they seemed to operate a shoddy, slow, over-expensive service that seemed to be more run for the staff then the passengers.

I'm now delighted to have switched to Cork with their far better schedules and MUCH cheaper prices.

As for the price difference:
47 / 18 = 2.6111111111
77 / 18 = 4.2777777778

And that excludes the cost of the LUAS too and from Heuston.

Also I will point out that up until this year, I normally paid €77 to get to Cork (or the equivalent over the years). I never once got those mythical €10 special offer tickets. The new €47 "special promotion" fare was only introduced earlier this year, I would guess only in response to the competition from these bus companies.

To be honest you appear to have such a vendetta against both IE and BE it's hard to take your posts seriously. By the way, I don't work for any public transport company in case anyone wonders. I am a management consultant who travels around the country either by train or bus or car depending on what mode of transport works for me.

My first preference is for trains because I can work during my travel time. Can't work as easily on a bus and obviously I can't work and drive!

bk · 14-11-2012 10:27am

Well that is amusing sligotrain, as a management consultant, you should have a respect for my facts based, statistical analysis of the Irish public transport market. After all isn't that a major part of management consultancy?

You come in, study the accounts and operating procedures of the company, look at their competition and what they are doing and then give advice on how to improve their business?

That is pretty much what I've been doing here. Showing people what a dangerous situation IR/BE face here and some things they need to do to improve.

But you are correct, I do dislike IR/BE (a vendetta is far too strong). I think that are very inefficient semi states that are run more for their staff then the public.

I think the private operators have proven they can deliver a much better service, at a cheaper price and at no cost to the tax payer.

BTW you prefer taking the train. That is totally fair enough, we all have our preference. However as you say you travel for business, I assume your travel costs are covered by your clients, so the price difference doesn't matter so much to you.

But as someone who is paying for myself, heading down to Cork once a week, can't you see why I would be so excited to have my fare cut from €77 to just €18 by taking a coach that is actually faster!!

BBTW you say you find my posts hard to take serious. Please point out a single item in my posts which isn't factually correct? I notice as a management consultant you haven't given any stats to refute any of my posts!! I suppose it shows the difference between engineers and management :P

sligotrain · 14-11-2012 2:10pm

Well bk get your facts right before you attempt to have a go at me...

let's take a return journey from Dublin to Cork on Saturday next week. Irish Rail are quoting me €43.98 + €2 booking fee (let's round it all up to €46) for the return journey, and GoBE are quoting €20.

So not sure where your €77 comes from unless it's your head?

Here's why I don't take your posts seriously. You make up or exaggerate "facts" to fit your argument, you use subjective language to make your case - beautiful toasted roll, anyone? And you come across as a slightly hysterical obsessive about CIE in general. You ought to relax, when you get older you may have an ulcer or something. When was the last time you saw your doctor?

foggy_lad · 14-11-2012 2:52pm

sligotrain wrote: »

Well bk get your facts right before you attempt to have a go at me...

let's take a return journey from Dublin to Cork on Saturday next week. Irish Rail are quoting me €43.98 + €2 booking fee (let's round it all up to €46) for the return journey, and GoBE are quoting €20.

So not sure where your €77 comes from unless it's your head?

Here's why I don't take your posts seriously. You make up or exaggerate "facts" to fit your argument, you use subjective language to make your case - beautiful toasted roll, anyone? And you come across as a slightly hysterical obsessive about CIE in general. You ought to relax, when you get older you may have an ulcer or something. When was the last time you saw your doctor?

Don't forget the €3.20 for the luas and if you decide to travel at the last minute that fare which is still very high gets even higher although buying at the booking office saves you the online charges.

bk · 14-11-2012 3:18pm

sligotrain wrote: »

Well bk get your facts right before you attempt to have a go at me...

let's take a return journey from Dublin to Cork on Saturday next week. Irish Rail are quoting me €43.98 + €2 booking fee (let's round it all up to €46) for the return journey, and GoBE are quoting €20.

So not sure where your €77 comes from unless it's your head?

You have forgotten the €3.20 for the Luas and potential €1 fee for using a credit card.

Here is an equivalent break down.

Book 3 days in advance return ticket
Aircoach €18 / IR + Luas €49.18

Book 1 day in advance return ticket
Aircoach €18 / IR + Luas €71.18

Book 1 hour in advance return ticket
GoBE €20 / IR + Luas €76.20

Walk up return fare
Aircoach €22 / IR + Luas €80.20

All prices confirmed on the Irish Rail website. These are the facts, nothing made up, please point out a single inaccuracy above?

Again I please ask you to stop with the personal attacks. Here on boards we have a rule, attack the post, not the poster. Saying things like it is in my head and if I need to visit a doctor is strictly against the rules of boards and can get you banned.

Also when a person has to drop to such insults in a conversation, it is a sure sign that they have lost the argument and have no better rebuttal.

You keep saying I make things up or exaggerate things, yet you haven't been able to point to a single example yet.

I think you are simply annoyed as my facts don't fit with your opinion and you simply can't accept them.

Jamie2k9 · 14-11-2012 3:21pm

You have forgotten the €1 credit card fee

Can't realy include that as it does not apply to everybody. A lot of people have visa debt cards which don't get charged the fee.

Hogzy · 14-11-2012 3:31pm

In fairness BK has clearly pointed out that the Bus is a hell of a lot cheaper than the train and it is very convenient for taking people from one city center to another.

I am only familiar with Cork to Dublin (& Vice Versa) Routes. I have used Aircoach, GoBus and the train to travel to and back in the last year. If I needed to go to Dublin via public transport and it was free I would definetly be taking an express bus of some sort. They bring you closer to the city center and they are a considerably cheaper form of transport.

People who are claiming the train is still a better way to get from ork to Dublin, Can you list one advantage to taking the train over the bus? I cant think of any tbh.

Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

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