Sexy street harassment

smash · 29-10-2014 1:43pm

Gone Drinking wrote: »

based purely on how well she looks (In fairness, HOT DAYUM).

Should have gone to spec savers!

Billy86 · 29-10-2014 1:44pm

RoboRat wrote: »

I agree and you're spot on that we have a hangup that drink must be involved but to say hello to somebody in a park/bus/train/whereever and strike up a conversation is one thing, to say Daummn you're fine or ask a woman outright for her phone number is another thing... and walking beside her for 5 mins is just damn stalkerish.

Oh yeah, definitely agree there. I said it in an earlier post, if I were chatting someone up one of the last things I would do would be start off by talking about how she looks.

It's the same that a lot of women have a hang up that the guy MUST approach them and not vice versa, even if they are really interested in him. Whenever I've tasked any girls I know on this I always get told it's "slutty" or "desperate" seeming for them to approach the guy, which is kind of a pathetic mindset to have. Not saying all women or anything, but a fair amount - it seems to be less of an issue with the younger crowd there, which I figure social media etc has played a role in. It's far healthier though than the former mindset, and like I said a few posts back I think that mindset of "I would never initiate the conversation with a guy I liked" actually has a role to play in things like guys commenting on/whistling at/etc women walking down the road. Not to excuse it or anything, but more to do with preconditioning and such.

the evasion_kid · 29-10-2014 1:45pm

I don't even think the girl in the videos is that great looking I wouldn't bat an eyelid walking past her in the street

FullblownRose · 29-10-2014 1:48pm

The harassment is embarassing and shameful, yes. Some of it was also probably harmless. You can't tell what the atmoshere was like unless you were physically 'there'. I have had men chatting me up and some of them seemed genuinely sweet, others unsettled me. I can't say I see her as beautiful at all, though. I know that is neither here, nor there, but she doesn't strike me as someone who would naturally turn heads.

tritium · 29-10-2014 1:49pm

andrew wrote: »

[*]Women harassing men is less bad, because men don't have to worry that a given woman might threaten him or hurt him, given most men are significantly stronger than any given woman (any exception you could give to this will invariably be an exception which proves this rule)

Seriously, what nonsense. Given that males are more likely to be the victims of random violent attacks I think the issue here is more the 'culture of fear' that's been created than any real worry.

This is the kind of trope that plays into the 'all men are potential rapists' tripe so beloved of certain commentators.

Harassment is wrong, but the kind of argument you've offered here is also wrong

How Soon Is Now · 29-10-2014 1:50pm

Now that you mention holding doors open etc thats something i wish more women and men would start acknowledging.

I dunno how many times i have held a door open for someone and in some cases id stand there and a few people would pass threw the door and most of the time they dont even look at you. The same when im walking down the street and i notice its women who mostly do this but they walk right threw you as if your a ghost. Its left down to me to move out of the way or else someone is gonna end up on there arse and naturally there the smaller ones so!

Some people with buggys do the very same thing.

I know these are all some what off topic but i think all of this including comments falls into an area there are a lot of problems with and its how some people still need to get a grasp of how to deal with others in social and public situations.

I dont know weather its lack of manners or weather some people just dont think about others when there out.

RoboRat · 29-10-2014 1:50pm

It's the same that a lot of women have a hang up that the guy MUST approach them and not vice versa, even if they are really interested in him. Whenever I've tasked any girls I know on this I always get told it's "slutty" or "desperate" seeming for them to approach the guy, which is kind of a pathetic mindset to have. Not saying all women or anything, but a fair amount - it seems to be less of an issue with the younger crowd there, which I figure social media etc has played a role in. It's far healthier though than the former mindset, and like I said a few posts back I think that mindset of "I would never initiate the conversation with a guy I liked" actually has a role to play in things like guys commenting on/whistling at/etc women walking down the road. Not to excuse it or anything, but more to do with preconditioning and such.

This is more of an Irish thing really. In most other countries I have visited, if a woman thinks you're hot she will initiate a conversation or at least let you know by making lots of eye contact and smiling.

the evasion_kid · 29-10-2014 1:51pm

FullblownRose wrote: »

The harassment is embarassing and shameful, yes. Some of it was also probably harmless. You can't tell what the atmoshere was like unless you were physically 'there'. I have had men chatting me up and some of them seemed genuinely sweet, others unsettled me. I can't say I see her as beautiful at all, though. I know that is neither here, nor there, but she doesn't strike me as someone who would naturally turn heads.

I smell a rat to tell you the truth if she's getting that level of harassment (I'd rate her fairly average to be fair) imagine what a really beautiful girl would go through, probably wouldn't even leave her house

Tiddlypeeps · 29-10-2014 1:52pm

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I don't even think the girl in the videos is that great looking I wouldn't bat an eyelid walking past her in the street

I think the point he video was trying to demonstrate was that clothing and looks are irrelevant. They picked a nondescript women and put her in nondescript clothes. Absolutely nobody can claim the women in the video was clearly seeking the attention she got, even her body language screams leave me alone. Yet the comments persist.

I have no idea how much clever editing or staging was used in the video tho so I'm not making any claims to it's legitimacy, just pointing out what they were trying to demonstrate.

the evasion_kid · 29-10-2014 1:55pm

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I think the point he video was trying to demonstrate was that clothing and looks are irrelevant. They picked a nondescript women and put her in nondescript clothes. Absolutely nobody can claim the women in the video was clearly seeking the attention she got, even her body language screams leave me alone. Yet the comments persist.

I have no idea how much clever editing or staging was used in the video tho so I'm not making any claims to it's legitimacy, just pointing out what they were trying to demonstrate.

I don't know If you've ever been to new York but there's fair hotter girls than her(Toronto even more so) and I've never seen anything like that while I was there(despite being illegal there for two years).

Faith+1 · 29-10-2014 1:56pm

She's meant to be pretty? Must have low standards in Nyc.

cloudatlas · 29-10-2014 1:58pm

tritium wrote: »

Seriously, what nonsense. Given that males are more likely to be the victims of random violent attacks I think the issue here is more the 'culture of fear' that's been created than any real worry.

This is the kind of trope that plays into the 'all men are potential rapists' tripe so beloved of certain commentators.

Harassment is wrong, but the kind of argument you've offered here is also wrong

There was a girl standing with me at the bus stop she couldn't have been more than 22 23 years old. A man in his 40's with his drinking buddies walked by and said something like 'hey gorgeous how much do you charge?!' I've never seen anyone shrink so far back in to themselves as she did like she took a step back against the wall and just looked absolutely terrified.

The lads who are saying that there is nothing in it and it is just a bit of craic. It's only a bit of craic if both parties see it that way.

Why would you perceive that there is no threat in it especially since as human beings we are designed to perceive threat 'flight or fight' reactions?
I can imagine if you are a small woman with a group of large men bearing down on you on the foot path who make a comment about how you are a whore you would be wondering 'what will happen' 'what should I do to get away'. Not thinking 'ah well everyone is entitled to make a comment, I'm perfectly safe'.

FullblownRose · 29-10-2014 1:59pm

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I smell a rat to tell you the truth if she's getting that level of harassment (I'd rate her fairly average to be fair) imagine what a really beautiful girl would go through, probably wouldn't even leave her house

No. It goes to show!

Scannal · 29-10-2014 2:05pm

I wouldn't be happy to be receiving comments all the time when I'm just walking down the street. If women were telling me to smile and saying I don't want to be with them because they're ugly and so on. It'd be very uncomfortable, it seems like it's a regular thing that happens to women, even in Ireland. I don't know why men defend it, surely you can see how irratating it would be. Imagine everyone from old, married women to 16 year old girls making comments all day long.

LoganRice · 29-10-2014 2:08pm

That definitely doesn't happen as often in Ireland

bear1 · 29-10-2014 2:08pm

^^ I see you getting banned again

Zulu · 29-10-2014 2:10pm

What I find interesting is:
Shes in one of the most densely populated cities in the world.
She walks around for 10 hours (passing by how many thousands/hundreds of thousands? people).
She condenses the worst of it to a few mins video.

...and the video is mostly "good morning"/"good day"/"hello" type comments; some "damn gurrl" comments and 2 instances of scary men following her.

I note that a good few of the comments were from touts outside shops - doing this to every single person walking past perhaps? (I'm surprised, are there no chuggers in NY).

I also note that the video seems to single out certain ethnic backgrounds (is there even one comment from a white man?).

And finally "donate to stop" at the end is the cherry on the cake for me. I've a prince in Nigeria that's dieing to help. :rolleyes:
It's fem**** propaganda, and there will always be saps that buy into it. Sadly, once again, the victim mentality belittles the real issues.

kylith · 29-10-2014 2:16pm

Broken Hero wrote: »

Sure, the sleazy personal space evading stuff, but otherwise most men would welcome 'Hi, how you doin' type remarks.

100 times a day? Most days? For 15 years?

Schwiiing · 29-10-2014 2:16pm

I think she's hot. Don't know what supermodels the rest of you are looking at all day everyday.

Irish Stones · 29-10-2014 2:17pm

bear1 wrote: »

What happened?

I was about 25 years old, I was on the street with two friends of mine, this young girl came close to me and asked me if she could stay with us.
No problem, but soon she start leaning on me, then she said she was feeling cold and put her hands in my pockets.
My two friends left a few minutes later, she tried to kiss me there and then.
I didn't know how to get rid of her! :eek:
I made clear to her that I was interessed in her, she said she understood, but I found her on my way for some days more.

Eventually she resigned herself to the situation and some months later I saw her with another boy who, physically, was the exact opposite of me

They married some years later.

And before you ask me, she wasn't beautiful

the evasion_kid · 29-10-2014 2:17pm

"I note that a good few of the comments were from touts outside shops - doing this to every single person walking past perhaps? (I'm surprised, are there no chuggers in NY)."

NY is full of these,for instance I had a fairly unique haircut when I was over there I was always getting comments on it walking around from touts,homeless,general weirdos just trying to make conversation or get you to stop to rope\scam you into something

tritium · 29-10-2014 2:20pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

There was a girl standing with me at the bus stop she couldn't have been more than 22 23 years old. A man in his 40's with his drinking buddies walked by and said something like 'hey gorgeous how much do you charge?!' I've never seen anyone shrink so far back in to themselves as she did like she took a step back against the wall and just looked absolutely terrified.

The lads who are saying that there is nothing in it and it is just a bit of craic. It's only a bit of craic if both parties see it that way.

Why would you perceive that there is no threat in it especially since as human beings we are designed to perceive threat 'flight or fight' reactions?
I can imagine if you are a small woman with a group of large men bearing down on you on the foot path who make a comment about how you are a whore you would be wondering 'what will happen' 'what should I do to get away'. Not thinking 'ah well everyone is entitled to make a comment, I'm perfectly safe'.

I think you've kin of missed/misrepresented my point. It was in response to the fact that Andrew claimed its worse for a girl because she might be attacked and she's not as big as the guys. The reality is a guy is far far more likely to be randomly attacked.

I don't doubt the lady in question felt afraid. I do question however whether that fear is based on justifiable statistics or a fear culture that actually has no basis in reality. In other words are er afraid because we should be or because someone has told us we need to be afraid even though the statistics don't bear that out.

Gandalph · 29-10-2014 2:21pm

Staged.
I base my facts on that; I am hotter than her and I walked around NYC for a whole day back in Feb and got no such comments. Some rapper tried selling me his cd, that was about it.

cat_dog · 29-10-2014 2:21pm

A lot of the guys were just being friendly. A few of them were being creepy/ inappropriate like the guy who was FOLLOWING her. That is harassment.

Meangadh · 29-10-2014 2:30pm

To be honest, I wouldn't pay much heed to the actual video- and I certainly don't know how exactly funding the organisation is going to change anything.

But the basic message and fact remains: the vast majority of women I, and probably any of you, know have been subjected to a lot of this kind of crap as they go about their business. Yes, it's not as common in Ireland, but it does happen.

Also- there's a general thing coming from a lot of men in this thread that the girl in the video isn't even that good looking so "what are the men even commenting for" kind of thing. This is completely irrelevant. I'm very normal/average looking. I'm not the back of a bus (I hope) but I certainly don't turn heads. I still would experience this kind of crap from men from time to time. It's not a daily thing or anything, but it's common enough. I genuinely have no problem with a man saying hello as I go by. But don't comment on my clothes, figure, weight, or shout something at me about something that I'm having a conversation with my friends about as we pass by. Granted, it does happen more frequently when these men have been drinking, but sober or drunk it shouldn't happen. And obviously the same should be said for women who harass men. But I don't think, even without hard facts and stats, anyone could deny that women are subjected to this harassment more than men.

So I don't think this is a feminist issue- it's just the difference between right and wrong. Would these men think that the comments they are making to random women were directed at their mothers/wives/sisters/daughters are acceptable or even just harmless banter? Would they f**k.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 29-10-2014 2:36pm

tritium wrote: »

I think you've kin of missed/misrepresented my point. It was in response to the fact that Andrew claimed its worse for a girl because she might be attacked and she's not as big as the guys. The reality is a guy is far far more likely to be randomly attacked.

I don't doubt the lady in question felt afraid. I do question however whether that fear is based on justifiable statistics or a fear culture that actually has no basis in reality. In other words are er afraid because we should be or because someone has told us we need to be afraid even though the statistics don't bear that out.

Do you usually base your fear on statistics though? Say you're swimming somewhere off the coast of Ireland and see a sharklike object in the water beneath you, is your response "it's pretty much statistically impossible that I would be attacked by a shark here, and even if I were attacked, very very few people are killed by sharks annually, I'll just ignore it"? Or is it "right now, at this moment, I'm in a situation which has the potential to escalate into something very unpleasant. The potential consequences, no matter how unlikely, are unpleasant enough for me to be frightened and to do what I can to prevent them".

People who engage in behaviour like the men in the post you quoted are almost certainly deliberately trying to intimidate or frighten women, naturally the women are going to be frightened. And no matter how much you rationally know that you are not likely to be violently sexually assaulted, that is not a comforting thought when you are in a situation which potentially could escalate into an assault.

Barely There · 29-10-2014 2:46pm

Paige Brave Poker wrote: »

Say you're swimming somewhere off the coast of Ireland and see a sharklike object in the water beneath you, is your response "it's pretty much statistically impossible that I would be attacked by a shark here, and even if I were attacked, very very few people are killed by sharks annually, I'll just ignore it"? Or is it "right now, at this moment, I'm in a situation which has the potential to escalate into something very unpleasant. The potential consequences, no matter how unlikely, are unpleasant enough for me to be frightened and to do what I can to prevent them".

No, it's more like;
'SHARK! AGGGggghhh SHARK!'

Lollipops23 · 29-10-2014 2:47pm

Irish girls do experience this, albeit at a slightly lower level than this girl.

It doesn't matter if it's a "How are ya love" or a "Lookin good!" or even my personal least favourite "Smile!!" It's a total personal space invader, designed to make someone uncomfortable.

Even if it's just a case of wanting to be nice- don't feel like you can make any sort of comment on my physical appearance, it's really not appropriate. Be nice by acting nice, not by making judgments on my outfit.

ghostdancer · 29-10-2014 2:49pm

last time i was in NYC i had plenty of guys trying to say similar to me...................and i'm an ugly man.

Americans love chatting sh1t to random strangers, especially ones who are sitting at the side of the street with nothing to do all day.

Tasden · 29-10-2014 2:49pm

Gandalph wrote: »

Staged.
I base my facts on that; I am hotter than her and I walked around NYC for a whole day back in Feb and got no such comments. Some rapper tried selling me his cd, that was about it.

My sister text me one of the days after she just arrived in NYC saying "if you ever need an ego boost come to nyc, everybody compliments you when you're just walking around"

Soz

:pac:

tritium · 29-10-2014 2:52pm

Paige Brave Poker wrote: »

Do you usually base your fear on statistics though? Say you're swimming somewhere off the coast of Ireland and see a sharklike object in the water beneath you, is your response "it's pretty much statistically impossible that I would be attacked by a shark here, and even if I were attacked, very very few people are killed by sharks annually, I'll just ignore it"? Or is it "right now, at this moment, I'm in a situation which has the potential to escalate into something very unpleasant. The potential consequences, no matter how unlikely, are unpleasant enough for me to be frightened and to do what I can to prevent them".

People who engage in behaviour like the men in the post you quoted are almost certainly deliberately trying to intimidate or frighten women, naturally the women are going to be frightened. And no matter how much you rationally know that you are not likely to be violently sexually assaulted, that is not a comforting thought when you are in a situation which potentially could escalate into an assault.

I don't disagree with you-thats not the point I addressed. Andrew pointed to this as a reason why this is worse for women, I pointed out that the reason is a) nonsense from an actual fact based perspective and b) if they actually feel that way in spite of the reality then a fair amount of the blame for that lies with those who promote a culture if fear where 'every man is a potential rapist'

andrew · 29-10-2014 2:59pm

tritium wrote: »

Seriously, what nonsense. Given that males are more likely to be the victims of random violent attacks I think the issue here is more the 'culture of fear' that's been created than any real worry.

This is the kind of trope that plays into the 'all men are potential rapists' tripe so beloved of certain commentators.

Harassment is wrong, but the kind of argument you've offered here is also wrong

Males are not more likely to be the victims of random violent attacks from women. Other men, sure, but not women. In general, I'd stand by my assertion that men, in general, rarely if ever feel threatened by a woman. That's why it's not the same.

I'd agree that the culture of fear that has been created is a bad thing. But what's a woman supposed to do? If she regards some random complement from a guy as a threat, she's being too fearful. But if she does get attacked, then it's her fault for talking to the guy, or dressing a certain way, or putting herself in that situation. The 'all men are rapists' tripe has it's basis in the attitudes of people who say that harassment is harmless on the one hand, but whose response to a woman being attacked is often that it must have been her fault somehow.

The fact is that while men can regard it as 'not a real worry', a woman has no idea what the intentions of a guy doing the catcalling are. If you're a guy it's easy to say it's not a real worry because you've never been in a situation in which half of the adult population have a reasonable chance of being able to beat you up. Seriously, men are vastly stronger than women.* Even if it's unlikely he'll harm her, her best response is to assume the worst because if she doesn't, and she does get attacked, not only does that mean all the bad things that come with being attacked, people will often assume it was her fault.

*Check out differences in table 5 and 2 of this paper. Even though the differences are smaller than was previously thought, they're still massive.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 29-10-2014 3:01pm

tritium wrote: »

I don't disagree with you-thats not the point I addressed. Andrew pointed to this as a reason why this is worse for women, I pointed out that the reason is a) nonsense from an actual fact based perspective and b) if they actually feel that way in spite of the reality then a fair amount of the blame for that lies with those who promote a culture if fear where 'every man is a potential rapist'

I also dislike that culture of fear and think that misandrist shaming of male sexuality gets deliberately conflated with or disguised as sexual harassment/assault activism. However, you don't need to be thinking "every man is a potential rapist" to be afraid in a situation where a man is deliberately behaving in an intimidating and sexually aggressive manner, even if it is only verbally. It's not irrational or weak-minded to think, in that situation "this man is a potential rapist", because at the very least he's exploiting that fear. If a man says "hello" or "you're looking well love" to you on the street and you crack out the rape whistle, yes, that's stupid. If a group of drunken men leer at you late at night and you're afraid, it's not that you've been spending too much time on Jezebel.

smash · 29-10-2014 3:05pm

American chat up lines are so cringe!

TomJerryPoochy · 29-10-2014 3:07pm

How does one chat a woman up in the street?

Is saying hello permissable?

secondrowgal · 29-10-2014 3:15pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Now that you mention holding doors open etc thats something i wish more women and men would start acknowledging.

I dunno how many times i have held a door open for someone and in some cases id stand there and a few people would pass threw the door and most of the time they dont even look at you. The same when im walking down the street and i notice its women who mostly do this but they walk right threw you as if your a ghost. Its left down to me to move out of the way or else someone is gonna end up on there arse and naturally there the smaller ones so!

Some people with buggys do the very same thing.

I know these are all some what off topic but i think all of this including comments falls into an area there are a lot of problems with and its how some people still need to get a grasp of how to deal with others in social and public situations.

I dont know weather its lack of manners or weather some people just dont think about others when there out.

I agree with you! Wrecks my head....

I usually deal with it by a fairly loud "you're welcome" as they pass me by silently.

Neyite · 29-10-2014 3:15pm

I think what makes me feel uncomfortable about comments on the street is the fact that you are just trying to do your own thing - pick up X from that shop, fill a prescription, wonder what you should have for dinner, maybe think about a problem at work, and you get interrupted or held up by a stranger who has decided to openly assess you sexually.

He is looking you up and down, assessing your breasts and legs and arse, imagining you naked and thinking "Oh Yeah, I would" And what is worse, he is telling you that he is.

You know that in that moment, he is thinking sexual thoughts about you. That is what is creepy. That is what is deeply uncomfortable. So you are being forced to acknowedge his sexual interest in you. At least with the lad behind the sunglasses having a discreet perv, I'm none the wiser.

And the difference between this, and getting chatted up in a bar or a club, is that in the latter, you know you will probably get those kind of things said to you - its an equal playing field, where you are out looking, as are they. Women in clubs and bars are choosing to be chatted up, and if you are not, at least you know that you are in an arena where the odd lad coming along to chat you up is to be expected.

I'm in a long term relationship, so I dont want to be chatted up. I dont care if men find me attractive, I dont need their validation for my ego. I dont want it and find it intrusive. So I dont go to clubs and on the rare occasion that I may end up in one, I know that I might get chatted up but thats ok, because that is the nature of the club, to pull. And I'd nicely turn down the bloke and get on with my night.

I'd love the guys here who think its harmless and just a bit of craic to honestly say that they would have no problem whatsoever if it was four 30 year old men catcalling their 14 year old sister or daughter while she is just waiting for her bus home.

smurgen · 29-10-2014 3:16pm

Dr. Lollington wrote: »

No, I don't think it had anything to with race in Brixton really. The majority of people there are black to be fair but there's a fair clatter of white people there now too.

it's just men hanging around on Brixton hill drinking cans of cheap p*ss. They probably mean no harm and are just bored or they find it funny. It never really bothered me but one time a gang of about four men started walking in front of me and circling me. That was scary and taking it too far.

i think that's what it comes down to. No women is gonna mind a man saying' Hey sexy. have a good day'. You might even be flattered. It's just knowing where to draw the line between the messers and the genuine weirdos who could actually harm you. There's an underlying fear that's been instilled in woman to be on your guard in case you're dragged down a lane-way and raped! Sad but true.

I'm a 6 2 man and weigh 16 st. I lived in streathem hill and used to get the bus in brixton. Only lived there for about 6 months and was jumped and almost got my phone taken twice by guys way smaller than me. Also had plenty of other weird people call me and try to talk to me there. Had a guy pop out of a dark alley right into my face one night and it ended in fisticuffs. Brixton is just an extremely busy place and I think all of these extremely busy places bring out some right nut jobs from the woodwork. I know it must be terrifying for a woman in these situations but as a bigger male you normally assume a guy who's gonna tackle you is gonna be packing a weapon of some sort so that adds to the fear.

ash23 · 29-10-2014 3:35pm

I like compliments. I like when my boyfriend tells me I look gorgeous or that he loves my tits in a certain top.
I like when my friends admire my new outfit or tell me my hair looks nice.

I don't like when a guy leers at me when I don't know him. Or when a stranger makes a remark about my breasts.
I don't like it when a guy I don't know sits down at my table and pretty much refuses to leave or insists on buying me a drink.

Nobody likes unwanted attention even if it's meant to be positive.

There's a huge difference between seeing a girl on the street and saying "hi" to see if she's open for conversation and making her uncomfortable by saying "hi gorgeous" because the latter is too overly familiar and intimate to be getting from a total stranger.

I appreciate that for men it must be hard to get the balance right. They're expected to make the first move but seriously, are social cues that hard to read?
You would never meet a new colleague and straight away start calling them "honey" or "sweety" or comment on their appearance. You'd be normal and nice and friendly.
Boundaries!!!

Same applies with a stranger on the street. Approach them with a smile and a "hi" but don't be a douche and start making overly intimate references to their looks. It's just not necessary, it's not complimentary and it usually makes the woman feel really uncomfortable and self concious.

Like Pantis Noble Call, women shouldn't have to "check themselves" to see if they're doing something wrong that invites unwanted attention from men.

Ficheall · 29-10-2014 3:39pm

I've had a couple of positive comments on my hair from drunk girls - even had one come up uninvited and stick her unwelcome fingers in my hair, have had a drunk girl block my way by walking backwards in front of me and propositioning me, have had a girl in a group of other girls shout "I'd like to do him" at me across the road (I was, if it matters, on my own, and wearing very non-revealing clothing), and have had a pair of drunk girls follow me and ask me if they could come home with me (I should possibly have taken them up on that, in hindsight...) .

As a non-drinking male, who am I supposed to blame for this appalling behaviour? Women or drunken people?

Tiddlypeeps · 29-10-2014 3:44pm

Ficheall wrote: »

As a non-drinking male, who am I supposed to blame for this appalling behaviour? Women or drunken people?

Why do you need to blame an entire demographic at all. Why not just blame the individuals involved?

Chunners · 29-10-2014 3:46pm

See some of the guys on here can't empathize because they are thinking of it from the point of view of "If a woman said that to me it wouldn't bother me in the slightest so women are over reacting", so see they are not seeing a threat. It'd be different for them now if they were walking down the side lane of the George some night on their own and there were 6 big gay guys outside and the gay guys started saying "Hey sexy, you're hot" and then maybe 3 of them decide to follow him and 2 flank him while one walks behind and they start "playfully" nudging him and asking "So where are you going tonight? whats your name? whats your number?" and then when he tries to walk away maybe one of them steps in front of him and another "playfully" grabs his arm and he realizes that he is suddenly trapped with his back to a wall and 3 bigger guys surrounding him saying "Hey we just want to chat, there's no need to be rude, we're just saying hello" and realizes just how vulnerable he really is. I'm not saying it would happen or that gay guys are like that (most aren't in my experience) but if it did I can guarantee he wouldn't be standing there thinking "Ahh sure this is just some harmless flirting"

Lollipops23 · 29-10-2014 3:51pm

I generally consider myself pretty easygoing when it comes to guys attempting to chat me up- if I'm not interested I'll let them know in a polite and non-insulting manner (hey, respect works both ways), and expect them to back off. A few months ago I was in a situation whereby the guy wouldn't leave me be an d I was getting annoyed and a tiny bit scared at how aggressive he was being- he seemed to thrive on my discomfort tbh. In the end I told him (edit, screamed at him) that if he touched my leg again I would "f**king end him". I could have been more eloquent, but over half an hour of his clearly unwelcome attention had worn me down.

I, and no woman, should have to put up with that nonsense. My story isn't all that unusual, it happens every night of the week in cities around the world. Something is very wrong when men feel that it's acceptable to treat someone like that.

TomJerryPoochy · 29-10-2014 3:57pm

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I generally consider myself pretty easygoing when it comes to guys attempting to chat me up- if I'm not interested I'll let them know in a polite and non-insulting manner (hey, respect works both ways), and expect them to back off. A few months ago I was in a situation whereby the guy wouldn't leave me be an d I was getting annoyed and a tiny bit scared at how aggressive he was being- he seemed to thrive on my discomfort tbh. In the end I told him (edit, screamed at him) that if he touched my leg again I would "f**king end him". I could have been more eloquent, but over half an hour of his clearly unwelcome attention had worn me down.

I, and no woman, should have to put up with that nonsense. My story isn't all that unusual, it happens every night of the week in cities around the world. Something is very wrong when men feel that it's acceptable to treat someone like that.

That's clearly harassment, saying hello is not.

FullblownRose · 29-10-2014 3:57pm

Ficheall wrote: »

I've had a couple of positive comments on my hair from drunk girls - even had one come up uninvited and stick her unwelcome fingers in my hair, have had a drunk girl block my way by walking backwards in front of me and propositioning me, have had a girl in a group of other girls shout "I'd like to do him" at me across the road (I was, if it matters, on my own, and wearing very non-revealing clothing), and have had a pair of drunk girls follow me and ask me if they could come home with me (I should possibly have taken them up on that, in hindsight...) .

As a non-drinking male, who am I supposed to blame for this appalling behaviour? Women or drunken people?

Nasty people come in all kinds of meat sacks. Sorry to hear about that.

Ficheall · 29-10-2014 3:57pm

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Why not just blame the individuals involved?

That's not really the AH way, now is it?

It's in the forum charter that every debate must be turned into an "us versus them" argument. The trick is just to find what demographic your "us" is.

ash23 · 29-10-2014 3:58pm

TomJerryPoochy wrote: »

That's clearly harassment, saying hello is not.

Saying hello isn't.

Saying "hello gorgeous" isn't just saying hello though.

Chunners · 29-10-2014 4:04pm

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I generally consider myself pretty easygoing when it comes to guys attempting to chat me up- if I'm not interested I'll let them know in a polite and non-insulting manner (hey, respect works both ways), and expect them to back off. A few months ago I was in a situation whereby the guy wouldn't leave me be an d I was getting annoyed and a tiny bit scared at how aggressive he was being- he seemed to thrive on my discomfort tbh. In the end I told him (edit, screamed at him) that if he touched my leg again I would "f**king end him". I could have been more eloquent, but over half an hour of his clearly unwelcome attention had worn me down.

I, and no woman, should have to put up with that nonsense. My story isn't all that unusual, it happens every night of the week in cities around the world. Something is very wrong when men feel that it's acceptable to treat someone like that.

Yeah and the worse is the ones that you think have taken the hint and are going away when all of a sudden they will come up with something like "OK I'll leave you alone if you give me a kiss/hug first" and some will even go so far as to grab you and try force a kiss/hug on you. All you lads reading this who do **** like that (you know who you are) here's a piece of advice, no matter how drunk you are that behavior is not "harmless fun", it is ****ing terrifying.

MissKittenfire · 29-10-2014 4:06pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Much more likely to happen in the US than here

Not true at all.

I always wear a cost over a nice outfit in some parts of town.

kylith · 29-10-2014 4:06pm

TomJerryPoochy wrote: »

That's clearly harassment, saying hello is not.

Depends on how it's said. There's a difference between a friendly hello and a lecherous hello.

Sexy street harassment

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