Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

namloc1980 · 21-06-2010 4:54pm

castie wrote: »

People seem to be very short sighted when it comes to the capacity also.

The 3 big games in the Pairc this year drew an average of 23k people. A 60k capacity stadium is way over capacity for 2 or 3 events a year. How can a 60k capacity be justified?

21-06-2010 4:59pm

MunsterCycling wrote: »

What could be filled twice over?

The Aviva.

BUNK1982 · 21-06-2010 5:36pm

RoverJames wrote: »

The Aviva.

But it's in the best interests of the IRFU and FAI to have demand exceeding supply. This will enable them to bump up the ticket prices and guarantees a full house. Bigger games could move to Croker but they would have to deduct for rent.

A 60k seater stadium in Cork, owned exclusively by the GAA would be massively under-used and end up falling into disrepair much like the current stadium.

I don't know the ins and outs of Pairc ui Rinn or the area - would there be room to bring that up to scratch as 20k venue? It could easily handle league games and high profile club fixtures.

MunsterCycling · 21-06-2010 6:10pm

Ah yes, re-read the post and it made sense this time.

We could do with taking a leaf out of French town planners books and only allow municipal stadiums, that would ensure access for all sports not just a select few.

parsi · 21-06-2010 7:47pm

the GAA will never open up the pairc.

Oh they will. With Musgrave Park being stunted the IRFU will be clamouring for a local site to host a few Heino matches. Frank will come up with a deal that suits the County Board.

The back has been broken by allowing rugby in Croke Park. The English played there so all the old mantra's, the old golden cows and the old hangups have given way in the quest for bobs.

MunsterCycling · 21-06-2010 7:57pm

Isn't that always the Achilles heal of the GAA, their unrelenting quest for money, money and yet more money.

namloc1980 · 21-06-2010 8:14pm

parsi wrote: »

Oh they will. With Musgrave Park being stunted the IRFU will be clamouring for a local site to host a few Heino matches. Frank will come up with a deal that suits the County Board.

The back has been broken by allowing rugby in Croke Park. The English played there so all the old mantra's, the old golden cows and the old hangups have given way in the quest for bobs.

They already have Thomond Park for Heineken Cup games! If as you claim the IRFU will be clamouring for access to the pairc, why haven't they done so yet?

parsi · 21-06-2010 8:17pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

They already have Thomond Park for Heineken Cup games! If as you claim the IRFU will be clamouring for access to the pairc, why haven't they done so yet?

They _will_ because they will like to have access to a trendy Cork-based stadium. They _didn't_ in the past because there wasn't such a stadium in Cork.

Munster isn't just Limerick....

namloc1980 · 21-06-2010 8:30pm

parsi wrote: »

They _will_ because they will like to have access to a trendy Cork-based stadium. They _didn't_ in the past because there wasn't such a stadium in Cork.

Munster isn't just Limerick....

Munster Rugby is mainly Limerick.

Anyway Munster wouldn't fill a 60k stadium in Cork for a regular Heino cup game in a million years (granted a semi final may draw a crowd). Munster Rugby feeds off the atmosphere in Thomond.....which is better: a packed Thomond or a 20k crowd lost inside a 60k stadium? If the new pairc was say a decent 30k/35k all seater with excellent facilities then yes but let's be honest €50m isn't going to build anything 'trendy'. It'll be just like every other GAA stadium....basic and functional, definitely not trendy.

21-06-2010 10:08pm

If it's not trendy the Heino Cup bandwagon won't be into it

WesternZulu · 21-06-2010 10:27pm

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Isn't that always the Achilles heal of the GAA, their unrelenting quest for money, money and yet more money.

I'm guessing you have a massive problem with the GAA.

Would you have the same problem if the FAI or IRFU were to plan to redevelop one of their grounds in Cork to 60,000?

namloc1980 · 21-06-2010 10:37pm

There is no need for a 60k capacity stadium in Cork, be it GAA, IRFU or FAI. It's way over capacity for 2 or 3 events a year

MunsterCycling · 21-06-2010 10:46pm

WesternZulu wrote: »

I'm guessing you have a massive problem with the GAA.

Would you have the same problem if the FAI or IRFU were to plan to redevelop one of their grounds in Cork to 60,000?

No I have a problem with an organisation that has for years shown it is bigoted and discriminatory and has as their name suggests been out to grab what it can for themselves and only themselves.

Allowing planning for a single discipline stadium is contrary to good planning and good sense, that goes for all sporting organisations but only the grab alls have this chip on their shoulder. :rolleyes:

21-06-2010 11:03pm

In fairness to the GAA they do have a huge presence in almost every town, city and village in Ireland. The GAA without a doubt is of tremendous benefit to each and every local community in the country and kids from all over the World who live in Ireland are welcomed with open arms by their local GAA club to play Hurling & Football. 'tis hard to knock them really.

(just to add I have never played with a club as I'm tremendously poor at sport but there was local clubs that my buddies played with who had no probs having really useless lads on the panels, they always got a bit of a game too, can they same be said about soccer ann rugby clubs ?)

rebel.ranter · 21-06-2010 11:04pm

I would like to see a collaborative effort between GAA, IRFU, FAI & Cork City council to come up with a suitable facility that meets the needs of all organisations in a common municipal stadium.
We have 3 poor facilities in Musgrave Park, Pairc Ui Chaoimh & Rurner's Cross. One decent facility could be developed for a common good without the need for any vested interest to go too deep into financial debt.

I would not like to see the GAA lose out in any way if it was decided that the Pairc Ui Chaoimh venue was deemed the most suitable. In fact it could become a nice financial windfall fior them through some financial arrangement that the financially astute Frank & Peirce Murphy would no doubt
be well capable of brokering the right deal for Cork GAA.
To re-iterate I do not want to see any party lose out, I only want to see the best deal & outcome for the people of Cork. It is not best served by a GAA only 50k seater stadium. The good of Cork GAA is not best served by a 50 seater stadium. Talk to any inter-county player or club player & they will tell you that a stadium like that is not required.

A more realistic joint use facility of 30-35k capacity is more than adequate. Better to spend the spare cash (left over from avoiding the 50k stadium) on even better ancillary facilities & support services for the new stadium.

I am a GAA fan (H+F) & a rugby fan, not so much soccer, I still believe a joint effort s the way forward.

Again to state I do not want to see the GAA lose out in any way.

WesternZulu · 21-06-2010 11:06pm

MunsterCycling wrote: »

No I have a problem with an organisation that has for years shown it is bigoted and discriminatory and has as their name suggests been out to grab what it can for themselves and only themselves.

Ok the GAA have their flaws along with their positives.

Name me one sporting organisation that is perfect?

castie · 22-06-2010 1:41pm

The FAI

Stark · 22-06-2010 1:45pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

There is no need for a 60k capacity stadium in Cork, be it GAA, IRFU or FAI. It's way over capacity for 2 or 3 events a year

A 60,000 seater stadium would allow it to host events that normally take place in Croke Park though wouldn't it? I always thought it was ridiculous having people driving all the way up to Dublin to see Cork vs Kerry or Cork vs Limerick play.

SomeFool · 22-06-2010 1:54pm

Stark wrote: »

A 60,000 seater stadium would allow it to host events that normally take place in Croke Park though wouldn't it? I always thought it was ridiculous having people driving all the way up to Dublin to see Cork vs Kerry or Cork vs Limerick play.

Hard to see the All Ireland being moved from Croker though. I think a municipal stadium of 35k of so would be a fantastic asset to the people of Cork. Anything bigger would be a waste, imagine the GAA trying to fill 60,000 seats if the hurlers of footballers go through a couple of lean years.

BUNK1982 · 22-06-2010 2:17pm

This isn't a pro or anti GAA issue.

It's about what's best for the city, county and people of Cork in terms of infrastructure and the most efficient use of resources.

In this case the GAA spending £50m on a 60,000 all seater stadium and a centre of excellence on prime real estate in the city centre and in an area earmarked for development is a waste fora number of reasons that have been highlighted already.

If anything the GAA should be pushing for the City Council to develop a stadium at Pairc Ui Chaoimh and then keeping their money to put back into their organization at club level, underage etc.

castie · 22-06-2010 2:28pm

BUNK1982 wrote: »

This isn't a pro or anti GAA issue.

It's about what's best for the city, county and people of Cork in terms of infrastructure and the most efficient use of resources.

In this case the GAA spending £50m on a 60,000 all seater stadium and a centre of excellence on prime real estate in the city centre and in an area earmarked for development is a waste fora number of reasons that have been highlighted already.

If anything the GAA should be pushing for the City Council to develop a stadium at Pairc Ui Chaoimh and then keeping their money to put back into their organization at club level, underage etc.

Its the GAA's land (or soon will be), its the GAA's money so really it should be whats in the GAA's best interests. I dont see any other organisation running around doing whats best for everyone.

namloc1980 · 22-06-2010 2:39pm

Stark wrote: »

A 60,000 seater stadium would allow it to host events that normally take place in Croke Park though wouldn't it? I always thought it was ridiculous having people driving all the way up to Dublin to see Cork vs Kerry or Cork vs Limerick play.

The GAA won't move big all-ireland games out of croker to cork. They sell premium level tickets and corporate boxes in Dublin on the basis the big games will be in croker. 60k is way over capacity and big games won't be moved out of croker. It'll be a white elephant. €50m is only going to build a basic stadium.

Cape Clear · 22-06-2010 2:42pm

BUNK1982 wrote: »

This isn't a pro or anti GAA issue.

It's about what's best for the city, county and people of Cork in terms of infrastructure and the most efficient use of resources.

In this case the GAA spending £50m on a 60,000 all seater stadium and a centre of excellence on prime real estate in the city centre and in an area earmarked for development is a waste fora number of reasons that have been highlighted already.

If anything the GAA should be pushing for the City Council to develop a stadium at Pairc Ui Chaoimh and then keeping their money to put back into their organization at club level, underage etc.

Semi & all ireland finals will continue to be held in coke park as this is contracted under the corporate box scheme. The days of the GAA looking after the small man are long since gone and they should probably change their name to the SAA ie. screw all assocation. Of course this pairc Ui Caoimh development is the Ivory Tower pet project of Frank Murphy the same way the Bertie Bowl was for the langer from Drumcondra an ego trip of the heighest order.

BUNK1982 · 22-06-2010 2:49pm

castie wrote: »

Its the GAA's land (or soon will be), its the GAA's money so really it should be whats in the GAA's best interests. I dont see any other organisation running around doing whats best for everyone.

i have no idea what you mean here??

22-06-2010 2:58pm

BUNK1982 wrote: »

It's about what's best for the city, county and people of Cork in terms of infrastructure and the most efficient use of resources.

castie wrote: »

Its the GAA's land (or soon will be), its the GAA's money so really it should be whats in the GAA's best interests. I dont see any other organisation running around doing whats best for everyone.

BUNK1982 wrote: »

i have no idea what you mean here??

It's not rocket science

BUNK1982 · 22-06-2010 3:06pm

RoverJames wrote: »

It's not rocket science

Well rocket science is often much more straightforward than local politics... :rolleyes:

I don't understand why this shouldn't be a discussion about what's best for everyone in Cork (including the GAA). Does the OP think that a 60k all seater stadium is in the best interests of GAA?? Or are they against telling the GAA what to do with their stadium??

murphym7 · 23-06-2010 8:46am

50mil on a 60,000 capacity GAA stadium in Cork is a complete joke. A total waste of money. As has been previoulsy stated in this thread the atten at this years big games were very poor - and correct me if I'm wrong was it sunny for two of the days?

We will never fill it for GAA - considering it would be allowed to be used for Soccer of Rugby is a bit of a crazy thought - that was a one time deal for a national stadium. The aggreement was never meant to cover regional or local grounds. In fact, can anyone give me an example of a rugby or soccer match played outside Croke park in the last 3 years?

The redevelopment of Musgrave park is another mistake waiting to happen. I have been a munster fan all my life and go to the kip that is Musgarave park every time Munster play there. I also go up to Limerick 3/4 times a year when I can. It is a total pain in the ass to get there and back but we need to realise that redevloping another Munster rugby stadium - when the other is not payed for yet - will remove resources from building up and developing our young players. It also removes money from the clubs.

I would support Modernising Musgrave park and the Pairc - but only to bring them into the 21st cen. Brush up on the old safety bits at the Pairc, maybe update the toilets - build a couple of bars. Just a bit of a revamp, clean the place up a bit. We have to realise that we are a small country - we would all love to have massive stadiums nearby where we can watch big matches but the reality is our national stadiums are located in Dublin (its where most people live by the way!) Its the same reason Pairc Ui Chaoimh is in the city and not in Baltimore.

Just my 2 cents.

WesternZulu · 23-06-2010 11:42am

murphym7 wrote: »

In fact, can anyone give me an example of a rugby or soccer match played outside Croke park in the last 3 years?

Ireland have played rugby matches in Thomond Park, the RDS and i think Italy in Ravenhill in the last 3 years...although that game in Ravenhill could be a bit longer than 3 years ago.

The soccer team has also played games in the RDS and Thomond Park in the last 3 years.

That being said, the IRFU and the FAI won't be as eager to play games away from the new Lansdowne Road considering all that has been invested in the redevelopment.

murphym7 · 23-06-2010 11:45am

WesternZulu wrote: »

Ireland have played rugby matches in Thomond Park, the RDS and i think Italy in Ravenhill in the last 3 years...although that game in Ravenhill could be a bit longer than 3 years ago.

The soccer team has also played games in the RDS and Thomond Park in the last 3 years.

That being said, the IRFU and the FAI won't be as eager to play games away from the new Lansdowne Road considering all that has been invested in the redevelopment.

Maybe I should have been clearer - I meant GAA stadiums other than Croke park.

invinciblePRSTV · 23-06-2010 12:16pm

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I would like to see a collaborative effort between GAA, IRFU, FAI & Cork City council to come up with a suitable facility that meets the needs of all organisations in a common municipal stadium.
We have 3 poor facilities in Musgrave Park, Pairc Ui Chaoimh & Rurner's Cross. One decent facility could be developed for a common good without the need for any vested interest to go too deep into financial debt.

I would not like to see the GAA lose out in any way if it was decided that the Pairc Ui Chaoimh venue was deemed the most suitable. In fact it could become a nice financial windfall fior them through some financial arrangement that the financially astute Frank & Peirce Murphy would no doubt
be well capable of brokering the right deal for Cork GAA.
To re-iterate I do not want to see any party lose out, I only want to see the best deal & outcome for the people of Cork. It is not best served by a GAA only 50k seater stadium. The good of Cork GAA is not best served by a 50 seater stadium. Talk to any inter-county player or club player & they will tell you that a stadium like that is not required.

A more realistic joint use facility of 30-35k capacity is more than adequate. Better to spend the spare cash (left over from avoiding the 50k stadium) on even better ancillary facilities & support services for the new stadium.

I am a GAA fan (H+F) & a rugby fan, not so much soccer, I still believe a joint effort s the way forward.

Again to state I do not want to see the GAA lose out in any way.

A ray of common sense. Of course the GAA will get their way as they tend to always do in rural Ireland.

Just weeks ago city councillors in Cork City ignored the advice of the city manager and city planners and voted to support GAA plans for an €40 million refurbishment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

One councillor described the lobbying he experienced before that vote as "the most intense ever".

http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/editorial/gormley-investigation--planning-inquiries-are-long-overdue-123090.html

To hell with what might be good for the city of Cork, it's people and it's economy. And to hell with such trivial things as the City development plan, the GAA gets what it wants. Perhaps it's time we start evaluating the role of the GAA in public discourse the same way we look at FF or the Catholic church.

BUNK1982 · 23-06-2010 2:02pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/editorial/gormley-investigation--planning-inquiries-are-long-overdue-123090.html

To hell with what might be good for the city of Cork, it's people and it's economy. And to hell with such trivial things as the City development plan, the GAA gets what it wants. Perhaps it's time we start evaluating the role of the GAA in public discourse the same way we look at FF or the Catholic church.

What's the point in a well qualified and experienced City Manager and Planners offering advice?? They should be able to make a legally binding ruling on this!

Does anyone know what councillors supported it and their reasons?

Cape Clear · 23-06-2010 2:56pm

BUNK1982 wrote: »

What's the point in a well qualified and experienced City Manager and Planners offering advice?? They should be able to make a legally binding ruling on this!

Does anyone know what councillors supported it and their reasons?

Did any councillors abstane from this vote? On the grounds that there was a conflict of interest on the issue I can think of 6 councillors off hand that have strong links with the GAA either directly with the county board or with clubs.

BUNK1982 · 25-06-2010 1:32pm

Just read a piece about this in today's (Friday) Examiner.

17 City Councillors ignored the recommendation of the City Manager and Planners. Councillor Chris O' Leary is due to raise it in a meeting on Monday.

namloc1980 · 16-10-2011 1:57pm

Recent update on the Pairc redevelopment. Click

Planning application will be submitted in early 2012. About time too. I was down there for the county hurling final a few weeks ago and the place is on the verge of falling down.

Rhys Essien · 16-10-2011 8:24pm

If the Cork County Board was controlled by future/forward thinking people with a bit of vision,instead of a heap of dinosaurs,they would be building a municipal stadium like the recently finished Juventus Stadium.A beautiful stadium,built very cheap for €120 million.(Aviva Stadium was €410 million)
Capacity of 41,000 which would be perfect.

If they have €50 million now to do a half hearted job,for €70 million more I believe you could not get better.

To generate funds to pay it off,they would hold a few big concerts there every year.In the stadium they would include a museum,shopping mall corporate boxes,bars and restaurants for extra funding like they have in the Juventus Stadium.

They would also try and coax the IRFU and FAI to hold at least one match at the Stadium every year.It should not be that hard to fill considering the population of County Cork is now 520,000

With €70 million extra needed,say over a ten year period,im sure it would not be that hard to raise €7 million per year.

With the County board,will the end product look like faulty towers?

P.S Having the training pitch next to the stadium is a complete joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_Stadium

namloc1980 · 16-10-2011 9:09pm

Rhys Essien wrote: »

If the Cork County Board was controlled by future/forward thinking people with a bit of vision,instead of a heap of dinosaurs,they would be building a municipal stadium like the recently finished Juventus Stadium.A beautiful stadium,built very cheap for €120 million.(Aviva Stadium was €410 million)
Capacity of 41,000 which would be perfect.

If they have €50 million now to do a half hearted job,for €70 million more I believe you could not get better.

To generate funds to pay it off,they would hold a few big concerts there every year.In the stadium they would include a museum,shopping mall corporate boxes,bars and restaurants for extra funding like they have in the Juventus Stadium.

They would also try and coax the IRFU and FAI to hold at least one match at the Stadium every year.It should not be that hard to fill considering the population of County Cork is now 520,000

With €70 million extra needed,say over a ten year period,im sure it would not be that hard to raise €7 million per year.

With the County board,will the end product look like faulty towers?

P.S Having the training pitch next to the stadium is a complete joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_Stadium

The GAA own the stadium so unless the FAI / IRFU are going to stump up alot of cash to build it, then you can forget about it being multi-use. The FAI and IRFU also have the Aviva Stadium to pay for and they have sold 10 year premium seats in the Aviva on the promise that all internationals would be played there. Added to that you have one of the most conservative County Boards in the Country in Cork. They would rather level the place than let soccer or rugby in there. It's a non-starter to be honest.

parsi · 17-10-2011 8:54pm

Considering that only 7,027 attended the County Final yesterday it's handy for them that the taxpayer will be subsidising Frank's Dreams of Grandeur.

CHealy · 18-10-2011 5:01pm

Im no GAA man, but been curious I asked my Dad who was playing. The first team I cant remember cause I had never heard of it, Cross - sumthing or other, and then UCC. If this had been Nemo vs some big team from the West Cork region, a much much bigger attendance would have been there.

namloc1980 · 18-10-2011 7:32pm

CHealy wrote: »

Im no GAA man, but been curious I asked my Dad who was playing. The first team I cant remember cause I had never heard of it, Cross - sumthing or other, and then UCC. If this had been Nemo vs some big team from the West Cork region, a much much bigger attendance would have been there.

You mean like Castlehaven? Because that's who was playing. Anyone with even a very passing interest in Cork GAA would know who Castlehaven are.

darragh_haven · 21-10-2011 11:04am

CHealy wrote: »

Im no GAA man, but been curious I asked my Dad who was playing. The first team I cant remember cause I had never heard of it, Cross - sumthing or other, and then UCC. If this had been Nemo vs some big team from the West Cork region, a much much bigger attendance would have been there.

You dont really know much about football. Castlehaven had 95% of the support for the senior final. There was as many UCC on the panel and selectors as UCC supporters. And to inform you of Nemo, they have a great team but don't have a great following (small numbers).
When Castlehaven played O'Donovan Rossa in the '94 county final, 25,000 turned up..... a multiple of both parishes combimed. So you cant say Castlehaven aren't a big team (or O'Donovan Rossa either)
And not to forget Newmarket and Clyda, they had substantial numbers of supporters too.

superhooper · 23-10-2011 11:13pm

So are the showgrounds all going to the GAA to develop Frank Murphy Park or is it just a portion?

parsi · 23-10-2011 11:15pm

There is a Pubic Meeting about this development on Tuesday next. It will take place in Cork Con Clubhouse at 7:30PM

All are welcome.

18-07-2013 1:29am

Apologies for bumping up an old thread but here is artistic impression of the proposed Pairc Ui Chaoimh redevelopment.

Have to say it looks absolutely terrific and its long overdue

http://www.joe.ie/gaa/gaa-news/pics-the-new-look-pairc-ui-chaoimh-should-be-pretty-slick/

Cape Clear · 18-07-2013 11:07am

Frank's White elephant

Rhys Essien · 18-07-2013 11:16am

Can anyone tell me why there was no big concert there since Oasis in 1996.

Bruce Springsteen in 2013 makes a lot of sense when the place is ready to fall down.:(

Look at all the money they lost out on for 17 years.:rolleyes:

becost · 18-07-2013 11:46am

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/07/17/gaa-to-lodge-pairc-ui-chaoimh-plans-in-october/

cantdecide · 18-07-2013 11:58am

Is it a good time to admit I've never set foot in Pairc Uí Chaoimh:o

18-07-2013 1:04pm

cantdecide wrote: »

Is it a good time to admit I've never set foot in Pairc Uí Chaoimh:o

Just as well. The cramped seats in addition to the building site you have to walk through might have turned you off GAA.

kcb · 18-07-2013 1:17pm

Normally the artists impressions look good, even if the reality will be something different.... those images look like something that might have been designed 25 years ago!

I assume all sports will be played at this new stadium?

18-07-2013 1:25pm

Cape Clear wrote: »

Frank's White elephant

If Cork are to to get more of the big games in the long term though they just cant go on the way things are. Other counties are getting fed up with PUC in its present state. The concourses are far to narrow and the bowl itself is a disaster. Only a child, a midget or a dwarf could enjoy a game in any form of comfort. As for the site around well its a sorry looking eyesore. Additionally, people having to access a stadium via the first aid area where ambulances need access, its an absurd situation

The location is sort of odd considering most of the counties access Cork from the North of the city and yet have to cross the river to the South but Cork as a City is a brilliant setting for a game. You love your sport down there so its only right ye have a top class stadium to go with it. Maybe im being selfish as a tall Tipperary man who attends many games in Cork with it being a neutral venue, but having my knees cramped back for 3 hours like last years Munster final, just isn't fun.

Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

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