HKC VS Siemens App Discussion Stickey Temp

KoolKid wrote: »

The second outage in recent weeks I believe. HKC were blaming the networks.However I haven't had or heard of any issues with other sims.

I have a HKC GSM-Q with a meteor sim and it went offline in the early hours of yesterday morning so a network failure looks plausible

KoolKid wrote: »

They always had that arrogance about them & the attitude to backward compatibility was to upgrade, upgrade upgrade.
My last straw was the contempt they treated Astec customers with when they bought that brand.
We might be seeing that come full circle after recent events.

Yep, fair point about Astec. HKC bought the company, closed it down and destroyed all the spare parts so they effectively created a market that they knew would most likely go to themselves. Some installers got into big strife over it tho, but you are right, it was contempt.

You would have to have a grudging admiration for the marketing idea tho

KoolKid wrote: »

They also had a good system in the Fusion that they could have marketed as a bridge between the 2 systems but they chose not to.
They also could have incorporated the Astec 2 wire technology into their panel zones in the way GSD did. This could also have given a lot of options for integration & phased upgrading and retro fitting.

But they were never big on backward compatibility unfortunately.

I forgot about the Fusion, that had real prospects but never had a chance to get going properly. Anyway at that stage I was using the Aritech CS250/350/450 and the Galaxy stuff. Then AD Gardiner disappeared and with it Galaxy

Hi kub do you know if the slimline inertia sensor hkc brought out around that time was based on the astec sensors? if so then it is crap anyway as you have to give them a good old bang to get an activation, really terrible on pulse detection.

KoolKid wrote: »

Issues with HKC Securecom service again this morning. That's a few times since the sale of HKC. Some are wondering if there is any connection. (no pun intended

All jokes aside but, whatever little issues Securecomms provider had last week is not a touch on all those poor souls out there that follow your Free advice in the event of a power cut :D:D

KoolKid wrote: »

Same old sales speel.
All those free apps worked fine. They are also capable of notifying the customers in a few minutes in the event of a comms loss.
Can you explain what the events would be on your paid service in the event of a GSM jammer being used and then the power being cut?

Well now, for the Great HKC equipment I install, you are correct, they might require that extra bit of kit alright but they sure as hell won't need it for the stuff you recommend.
Just a power cut and bang.........the system is no longer capable of transmitting actual alarm activations.
Tell me as i am curious, do you even bother putting batteries in these systems or even SAB's.
Because you might as well not bother considering how vulnerable your recommendation is.


Do you even fill out the battery charging voltage, the amps and the milli amps?


What is the point, sur the system is no longer capable of sending out the important and vital notifications when the power is down.


Now also prey tell, how often do you have to go out to people who have one of your options and who's systems cannot automatically reconnect to routers after power cuts?
Or indeed what about the ones whose monitoring stations ring them in the middle of the night just because the mobile phone cell in their neighbourhood reset?


No doubt you will claim you have no idea what i am referring to :D:D

KoolKid wrote: »

Again you seem purely interested in the personal attacks on people to avoid the questions.
I won't attack your business practices I'll just stick to the facts and ask the questions again that you don't answer.
An awful lot of those paid for services were without any service or notifications for a long period of time last week. This wasn't the first time either.
The free services you refer to all works fine during this issue. Not the first either as you know.
These free services will report network down in the event of a power cut. Network down is reported in a matter of minutes not 90 minutes or 5 hours like some paid services.
If power is cut /network is lost after an alarm event or during entry timer alarm events are instantly reported.
Our monitoring service also avails of this fast polling. Monitoring customers can be notified within 15 minutes of comms down (not 90 minutes or 5 hours). When power or network coverage returns so does the polling so the customer, the company and the monitoring station know comms is up.
Likewise with self monitoring.
Again sticking to the facts.
On this paid service what would happen if a GSM jammer was used and then the power was cut?
Would the customer be notified straighaway or after 5 hours when the slow polling fails.

And off you go again.


Facts are indeed necessary to stick to.


You claim you give people options.


IT is very strange so that you have so much misinformation with regard to the Securecomm providers issue last week.


So your facts there are downright wrong.


Therefore if you did, as you claim give people all the options when specifying a system then you would know the actual facts here, which you don't as you are clearly demonstrating.


There is a big difference between someone receiving a Network down signal than a Mains fault.


Therefore that paid for service which you keep harping on about is a lot more important than your Free.


The bottom line is THE FREE OPTIONS WHICH YOU KEEP HARPING ON ABOUT ARE INCAPABLE OF TRANSMITTING ALARM SIGNALS AFTER THERE IS AN ELECTRICAL FAILURE.
Or EVEN IF A CHILD UNPLUGS A ROUTER.
Or IF GRANNY UNPLUGS THE ROUTER TO PLUG IN THE HOOVER.



The proper security equipment that I recommend CAN TRANSMIT ALARM SIGNALS DURING A POWER CUT and can ALSO SPECIFICALLY TELL THE CLIENT THAT THERE IS A MAINS FAILURE as opposed to your NETWORK DOWN, which could be anything.
Or as another poster alluded too, people would have to ' get into a car and go home or ring a neighbour to check ' with your FREE.
But with mine they can relax, knowing that I and guys like me have installed a proper security system that is capable of informing them of what is going on with their systems at all times.


Now I hope to God that you are not seriously telling us that you have clients out there connected through routers solely for professional monitoring.


Again you do need to update your information with regard to that subscription service you have so many issues with.

KoolKid wrote: »

Your approach to this is all wrong. You just seem intent with having a row and are more intent on attacking me and my business practices. Yet you fill these jibes with and innuendo with comments like
THE SYSTEM YOU INSTALL HAS XYZ PROBLEMS.

My approach to this is all wrong.........and it is you are claiming that it is me that is getting personal. You might reflect on that please.


No I am not at intent on having a row, to have a row one needs to be rattled and upset, I am neither and have been neither in writing all my responses to you.
I would classify this as a discussion, this is what this forum is all about.


See KoolKid, I can only go by what you post here on this forum and I am only stating fact.


You must know and indeed you can always check your own responses, but your recommendations to posters looking for systems is your typical 2 manufacturers that have Free notifications and you warn them about subscriptions ' for the life time of the system ' ( I am still awaiting an answer on what that means exactly, by the way ).


So you tell the posters the manufacturers your company uses.


You tell the posters Free.


But you do not explain to posters the implications of Free.
The limitations of Free.
The weakness's of Free



We are both in the security business and I would not be happy with that.

KoolKid wrote: »

We install and maintain all makes of systems so if you want to continue attacks at least post some factual information.

Well based on your posts here on boards those manufacturers are Vanderbilt and GSD but never HKC.


So it is safe to assume that as you stated those in your posts that it is indeed factual information

KoolKid wrote: »

All monitored alarms we install use other paths with IP as a backup with quicker polling
Everyone here has been well informed about the differences between free and paid options with apps.

Still though, are you using customers routers as the sole communication path to central stations ?
See you seem to care about polling times an awful lot, it seems to be a huge concern to you.
It is not to me see, we use IP communication to Central Stations also utilising 1 primary and 3 back up pathways.
Surely at this stage all installers are utilising IP protocol, I am surprised you felt you needed to even mention that, second nature at this stage I would have assumed.


Apps, where did that come from?
Best not to go there, I can recall your own prediction about having to pay for the HKC one.
Anyway that prediction did not go too well.
I wonder how many downloads they have now. There must be thousands.

KoolKid wrote: »

Everyone I survey gets it all explained to them face to face and they choose what system they want and what services they want and what they want to pay for and what they don't.

Well every premises I survey, I explain what I am proposing to the potential client.
I explain the implications of Free and well they always go with my professional opinion.
See in a domestic installation and with the HKC system I would be recommending then we do not have to improvise like one may have to do with other manufacturers.

KoolKid wrote: »

What people here aren't being told is the question you won't answer.
With this paid for service with 5 hours polling (or 90 minutes if you pay more) what happens if a GSM jammer is used and the power is cut?
As you are so eager for others to point out the vulnerabilities of the systems they recommend I'm sure you will be equally as eager to do the same.

People haven't being told ? What are we addressing, the masses ?


First off anyway I have yet to encounter a jammer being used on any system that we have installed.
Neither have i received any reports of same.


However, my concern is on my customer, their property and possessions as it should be of course.


Therefore if the risk suggests that a jammer may be used i therefore do not rely soley on routers and GSM networks to notify central stations of activation's.




Hence polling times do not concern me, as I will have the best of equipment on that site that will transmit alarm activations in all conditions, so.


If the power is off and if someone uses a jammer.


My system will still get a signal out.


That is what the standards are all about see.


You know the risk assessment that you fill out, well that is what that is about.


Oh and by the way, best not to assume anything about me.


That is a bit too personal.


But anyway as I said previously the bare facts here are your Free is incapable of transmitting alarm activations in the event of a power cut.


Mine can.