N21 Thread

dubhthach · 18-11-2010 10:46am

Zoney wrote: »

Really makes it look so ridiculous the state of N20 Limerick to Cork, an intercity route, when the roads in Kerry have had so much more attention.

Pays to have a certain ex-FF member *cough* gombeen *cough* as a independent TD in your county it would seem! :rolleyes:

fresca · 18-11-2010 11:24am

And N22 is crap also from county bounds to ballincollig...

Zoney wrote: »

Really makes it look so ridiculous the state of N20 Limerick to Cork, an intercity route, when the roads in Kerry have had so much more attention.

Tech3 · 18-11-2010 12:26pm

Zoney wrote: »

Really makes it look so ridiculous the state of N20 Limerick to Cork, an intercity route, when the roads in Kerry have had so much more attention.

The old N21 through Kerry would have been worse than the current bad sections of the N20. I'm not saying it should have been more priority though.

fresca · 18-11-2010 2:14pm

tech2 wrote: »

The old N21 through Kerry would have been worse than the current bad sections of the N20. I'm not saying it should have been more priority though.

I agree.
The N20 must be upgraded first.
Then N22.
Finally make N12 2+2 to tie in with Abbeyfeale & newcastlewest bypass.
This is all way off in the distant future of course...

fresca · 31-01-2011 1:20pm

from http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/

West Limerick land owners left in limbo with no funding for new road

Land owners in west Limerick are being left in limbo as there's no money to proceed with a new road from Adare to Abbeyfeale.
The new road is to be a dual carriage, not a tolled motorway, and is expected to cost in the region of 400 million euro.
Three routes were identified as possible options on the main Kerry to Limerick Road, and the preferred route was to be revealed before the end of last year.
However until there's money available from the Department of Transport to proceed with the project, the preferred route won't be unveiled.
No money has been allocated to the project by the NRA this year.
Under law, all land covered by the three proposed routes can't be developed until the preferred one is chosen.
Newcastle West Fine Gael Cllr Jerome Scanlon feels this has serious repercussions for land owners along the proposed routes, especially farmers that want to expand their farms.
He feels if the project won't receive funding in the near future, this restriction on developing land should be lifted.

Amtmann · 31-01-2011 1:35pm

In fairness to Jerome Hughes, he has a point, though at the end of the day I disagree with him. I know a family similarly affected by the suspension of the N28 scheme. There are a few things they'd like to do with their land (building one-offs isn't one of them), but they can't because of the situation. It's very very frustrating for them.

dubhthach · 31-01-2011 1:40pm

If I read that straight the issue is not that they can't afford to do route selection but that until they have money to proceed with CPO etc they won't unveil the route? Are they afraid of a run on the land?

Tech3 · 31-01-2011 10:41pm

I think the latest developments indicate that this project may be canned for the forseeable future while the Tralee bypass will start construction in the middle of this year. It will be one of the questions I will bring forward to a candidate running in the Kerry North/West Limerick constituency running up to the general election. The priorities are definately all wrong when it comes to some of the road schemes in this country and certainly in the midwest/south region.

mossieh · 10-02-2011 3:55pm

They kept putting off the route selection for this last year, is there now any will to make a decision on it?

ongarboy · 08-03-2011 5:26pm

http://radiokerry.ie/news/
West Limerick land owners welcome abandonment of proposed Abbeyfeale to Adare road
Land owners in West Limerick are welcoming the announcement that a proposed road from Abbeyfeale to Adare has been abandoned. The National Roads Authority told a meeting of Limerick County Council yesterday that the N21 project won't proceed as there is no funding available for it. Three routes had been identified for the 400 million euro dual carriageway.

Under law, some 45 kilometres of land covered by the three proposed routes couldn't be developed until one was chosen. Francis Collins from the N21 roads action group says locals are delighted this restriction has been lifted. Newcastle West Fine Gael Councillor Jerome Scanlon says shorter bypasses around each town would be a better option for the NRA

dubhthach · 08-03-2011 5:32pm

ongarboy wrote: »

http://radiokerry.ie/news/
West Limerick land owners welcome abandonment of proposed Abbeyfeale to Adare road
Land owners in West Limerick are welcoming the announcement that a proposed road from Abbeyfeale to Adare has been abandoned. The National Roads Authority told a meeting of Limerick County Council yesterday that the N21 project won't proceed as there is no funding available for it. Three routes had been identified for the 400 million euro dual carriageway.

Under law, some 45 kilometres of land covered by the three proposed routes couldn't be developed until one was chosen. Francis Collins from the N21 roads action group says locals are delighted this restriction has been lifted. Newcastle West Fine Gael Councillor Jerome Scanlon says shorter bypasses around each town would be a better option for the NRA

Just as well there is no market for new housing in current market otherwise each of the routes would be covered with one off houses before you could blink!

LK_Dave · 08-03-2011 6:15pm

ongarboy wrote: »

http://radiokerry.ie/news/
West Limerick land owners welcome abandonment of proposed Abbeyfeale to Adare road
Land owners in West Limerick are welcoming the announcement that a proposed road from Abbeyfeale to Adare has been abandoned. The National Roads Authority told a meeting of Limerick County Council yesterday that the N21 project won't proceed as there is no funding available for it. Three routes had been identified for the 400 million euro dual carriageway.

Under law, some 45 kilometres of land covered by the three proposed routes couldn't be developed until one was chosen. Francis Collins from the N21 roads action group says locals are delighted this restriction has been lifted. Newcastle West Fine Gael Councillor Jerome Scanlon says shorter bypasses around each town would be a better option for the NRA

I for one think its a pity that this road had been abandoned. The N21 is a very dangerous road from Sweeps Cross through NCW up to Barnagh. I hope Mr Collins and co can sleep well at night knowing it is only a matter of time before there is another death.

And on another point, I know a few farmers in the Knockderry area who were hoping this road was going to be the cashcow they have spent all their lives waiting for.

veryangryman · 08-03-2011 8:29pm

LK_Dave wrote: »

I for one think its a pity that this road had been abandoned. The N21 is a very dangerous road from Sweeps Cross through NCW up to Barnagh. I hope Mr Collins and co can sleep well at night knowing it is only a matter of time before there is another death.

Morbid but true

And when it happens, all well be able to say publicly is "rest in peace"

Amtmann · 10-03-2011 2:08am

Scrapping of N21 road plan welcomed
CÍAN NIHILL

ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS and local landowners in Co Limerick have welcomed the scrapping of a proposed new road between Abbeyfeale and Adare.

The National Roads Authority told a meeting of Limerick County Council this week that the N21 project would not go ahead because there was no funding for it.

The decision means that a freeze can now be lifted on the development of lands that were under consideration as possible routes for the dual carriageway.

PlanBetter – a joint initiative of four environmental organisations, An Taisce, Friends of the Earth, Friends of the Irish Environment and Feasta – welcomed the roads authority’s decision.

Spokesman for the group James Nix said recent cuts in local road maintenance works were due to excessive motorway construction.
He expressed a hope that the move would “herald a change in policy to an emphasis on the maintenance, connectivity and accessibility to public transport”.

Separately, design plans for an additional junction on the proposed M20 motorway linking Cork and Limerick have been completed. Following a successful appeal by residents in July 2010, Buttevant, Co Cork, will now be served by a direct junction with the 80km stretch of motorway.
In previous plans, Buttevant was the only bypassed town on the route not to be served by a junction connection.

The new proposed layouts will be displayed in coming weeks in the M20 scheme design office in Gooldshill in Mallow, Co Cork.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0310/1224291779178.html

Sponge Bob · 10-03-2011 9:10am

I see that James Nix is committed to telling the same big lie again and again on behalf of the greenies. I am almost getting nostalgic for Isaac

James Nix said recent cuts in local road maintenance works were due to excessive motorway construction.

The N21 was not to be a motorway. Conflating everything that happens in road policy....or does not happen in this case , with Motorway costruction is a lie James. Your insertion of "Motorway" into every utterance is a lie!!!

The Motorways are so new they incur no maintenance costs at all and are already paid for par a few retention payments .....to make sure we don't have to maintain them.

Any excess maintenance is on the low quality and dangerous 'old' netrowk like that deadly mountain west of Newcastle in winter. The next time someone dies on that I will make sure that I get the "James Nix" press release out blaming Motorway construction for the state of that particular road ....what what !! :cool:

antoobrien · 10-03-2011 11:16am

Newcastle West Fine Gael Councillor Jerome Scanlon says shorter bypasses around each town would be a better option for the NRA

Isn't this the kind of thing people objected to in the 80s and 90s? the excuse then was that bypasses were going to cause the death of their towns because no traffic is coming through. Now they want to keep bad roads but build small bypasses that will probably end up being developed around causing more bypasses to be required (come back to claremorris in 20 years, especially if the n17 isn't dualled).

It think comments like this are shortsighted. I've asked it before but why do we have to wait to build something instead of planning things properly and building according to the plan?
Oh wait, i know the answer to this one:
That'd be doing it right and we can't do that, we're Irish!

dubhthach · 10-03-2011 12:26pm

antoobrien wrote: »

Isn't this the kind of thing people objected to in the 80s and 90s? the excuse then was that bypasses were going to cause the death of their towns because no traffic is coming through. Now they want to keep bad roads but build small bypasses that will probably end up being developed around causing more bypasses to be required (come back to claremorris in 20 years, especially if the n17 isn't dualled).

It think comments like this are shortsighted. I've asked it before but why do we have to wait to build something instead of planning things properly and building according to the plan?
Oh wait, i know the answer to this one:
That'd be doing it right and we can't do that, we're Irish!

I would put it down to "Short term thinking" that infects most Irish politicans (be they local or national). In there eyes it's better to get the short-term bandaid of a "small bypass" that can be delivered before the next election then actually doing it proper. This sort of thinking of course affects everything not just roads

mossieh · 10-03-2011 1:08pm

LK_Dave wrote: »

I for one think its a pity that this road had been abandoned. The N21 is a very dangerous road from Sweeps Cross through NCW up to Barnagh. I hope Mr Collins and co can sleep well at night knowing it is only a matter of time before there is another death.

And on another point, I know a few farmers in the Knockderry area who were hoping this road was going to be the cashcow .

On your first point, I'd say Mr Collins will sleep well knowing that unless he goes out and causes them himself, deaths on the N21 have nothing to do with him and to suggest otherwise is stupidity of the highest order. Incredible.

On your second point, are we supposed to feel sorry for farmers who miss out on a cash cow which would have been completely unearned and random? Because "they have spent all their lives waiting for" it? Are you serious? Have they nothing better to be doing? - Like farming? Do you feel sorry for everyone who doesn't win the lottery?
(note - I'm not entirely without sympathy for them - they do live in Knockaderry after all.)

LK_Dave · 10-03-2011 5:31pm

mossieh wrote: »

On your first point, I'd say Mr Collins will sleep well knowing that unless he goes out and causes them himself, deaths on the N21 have nothing to do with him and to suggest otherwise is stupidity of the highest order. Incredible.

On your second point, are we supposed to feel sorry for farmers who miss out on a cash cow which would have been completely unearned and random? Because "they have spent all their lives waiting for" it? Are you serious? Have they nothing better to be doing? - Like farming? Do you feel sorry for everyone who doesn't win the lottery?
(note - I'm not entirely without sympathy for them - they do live in Knockaderry after all.)

Well I’m glad to hear that he will sleep well, you may know him so you can pass on my good tidings. It should be noted that the cancelation of this road project had nothing to do with Mr Collins and Co nimby arguments but rather due to the current economic climate. However, if he had managed to block the road, why would it be “stupidity in the highest order” to lay some of the blame at his et al door for any future deaths? Let’s face it, it is only a matter of time before someone dies on this road again and I for one, as a relative of somebody who was killed on this road, would have like to see an alternative preferably at least a new dual carriage way.

I never instructed you how to feel for farmers, I just relayed what some had said to me in conversation. Which, to my knowledge, was no secret. But alas I think this maybe falling on deaf ears, as your comment about Knockaderry only goes to prove that you maybe the one suffering from “stupidity in the highest order”.

mossieh · 11-03-2011 1:02am

LK_Dave wrote: »

Well I’m glad to hear that he will sleep well, you may know him so you can pass on my good tidings. It should be noted that the cancelation of this road project had nothing to do with Mr Collins and Co nimby arguments but rather due to the current economic climate. However, if he had managed to block the road, why would it be “stupidity in the highest order” to lay some of the blame at his et al door for any future deaths? Let’s face it, it is only a matter of time before someone dies on this road again and I for one, as a relative of somebody who was killed on this road, would have like to see an alternative preferably at least a new dual carriage way.

I never instructed you how to feel for farmers, I just relayed what some had said to me in conversation. Which, to my knowledge, was no secret. But alas I think this maybe falling on deaf ears, as your comment about Knockaderry only goes to prove that you maybe the one suffering from “stupidity in the highest order”.

Well I sympathise with your loss, like you I have also had a relative die on that road, my father was killed in a crash at Reens pike. However, the notion that I would blame Francis Collins or any other objector for his death in any way is absurd. He died due to making a poorly judged overtaking manoeuvre. No one else's fault. It doesn't lessen anyone's memory to state the facts plainly, the salient point is that most accidents are caused by poor judgement. To imply that anyone objecting to a route is reponsible in any way for a drivers mistake is in my opinion, ridiculous. It does a huge disservice to anyone who objects to any road project regardless of their motivation.

My comment about Knockaderry was tongue in cheek but the windfalls gained or lost by landowners along a route has nothing to do with the route selection and frankly your even mentioning it in your post which was ostensibly about road safety seemed odd.

veryangryman · 11-03-2011 8:19am

Less chance of poor judgement on better roads. Safety Safety Safety - you cannot emphasise this point enough. The quality of a good road makes it harder to make such mistakes.

Ive yet to hear of a head on collision on an irish dual carriageway.

Sponge Bob · 28-09-2011 4:01pm

Plan B, a bit of work around Barnagh in 2012.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/land_deals_for_new_road_close_1_3077363

Haggling over the bog up there with local landowners right now.

The National Roads Authority (NRA) have indicated that funding for the road, which could cost in excess of €5 million, will be available next year. However if deals with land owners cannot be struck ahead of the planned start date of next March, the scheme would need to go through the drawn-out compulsory purchase order (CPO) process, which would see it shelved for at least a year and possibly lose its funding.

If they finish haggling.

The new road will see the construction of a separate carriageway adjacent to the existing N21, which will feature safe slip roads, junctions and stacking lanes, and will remove the dangerous bends of the current road.

More here

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/county_limerick_action_group_supports_road_safety_proposals_1_2910865

spacetweek · 20-10-2011 12:47pm

Tremelo wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0310/1224291779178.html
Scrapping of N21 road plan welcomed
CÍAN NIHILL

ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS and local landowners in Co Limerick have welcomed the scrapping of a proposed new road between Abbeyfeale and Adare.
...
The new proposed layouts will be displayed in coming weeks in the M20 scheme design office in Gooldshill in Mallow, Co Cork.

Pretty much everything about that article annoys me. I hate the simplistic thinking that groups like PlanBetter have - Road gets built: Bad; Road gets cancelled: Good. And although motorway construction probably did max out budgets for maintenance, this would only have been up to 2010 when they were completed. As for landowners being greenlit to develop along the proposed routes, this will make it more difficult to secure a route in future when the project is inevitably restarted.
Awaiting a change of policy in Limerick/Kerry to "connectivity to public transport" assumes that there is any. Bus-based transport is the ideal solution for areas of the country such as that and reliable bus services cannot exist without investment in roads. Roads aren't just for cars, they improve bus-based public transport too.
And the final barb - Buttevant getting a motorway junction. Providing a multi-million euro interchange at public expense for a one-horse town is not a victory, it's a failure - the triumph of the parish pump.

Quite an array of negative points really!

mk6705 · 17-04-2012 9:33pm

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.394153380616722.92057.159542587411137&type=1

...work appears to have started on the Barnagh re-alignment.

tomflynn · 19-10-2012 12:14pm

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/HA0028.htm

PL13.HA0028 An Bord Pleanala Order

PROPOSED ROAD DEVELOPMENT: N21 Adare Bypass, consisting of 8.5 kilometres of dual carriageway and associated side roads which will link the N21 National Primary Route to the M20/N20 National Primary Route through the townlands of Garraunboy, Boherbraddagh, Baurnalicka, Finniterstown, Granard, Dunnaman, Beabus, Derryvinnane, Castleroberts, Caherass, Fanningstown and Garranroe, County Limerick.

DECISION
REFUSE TO APPROVE the above proposed road development based on the reasons and considerations hereunder.

REASONS AND CONSIDERATIONS
The proposed N21 Southern Bypass Route for Adare was selected following the finalisation of the route of the proposed M20 Cork-Limerick Motorway. The proposed N21 was designed to intersect with the proposed M20 to the east of Adare.

Having regard to the decision to withdraw the proposed M20 application from the planning process together with uncertainty as to when, or if, any new application in respect of this development may be submitted, the Board considers that the proposed N21 development would, if permitted and constructed, constitute isolated infrastructure, would not represent a coherent approach to the provision of major roads infrastructure and, furthermore, would not have the potential to fulfil the functions envisaged for the Scheme. The proposed development would, therefore, be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.

My view:
Pending the completion/certainty re: M20, they are probably correct in terms of it being "isolated" and "not have the potential to fulfil the functions envisaged".

In the absence of the M20 the proposal involved a temporary at-grade tie-in to the current N20 at Garranroe/Fanningstown (at the site of the proposed future M20 junction). However, to bypass Adare (again in the absence of the M20) it would have required exiting the M20/N21 at the Attyflin Junction (J4) c. 2km before the end of the dual carriageway, taking the N20 southbound to Garranroe/Finningstown, then taking the (now refused) 8.5 km southern bypass around Adare to the point where it would have rejoined the existing N21 at Garraunboy, west of Adare.

Attyflin junction to Garraunboy c. 10km direct route via Adare
Attyflin junction to Garraunboy c. 13.5km via proposed Adare southern bypass (my estimate).

I'm still of the view that this is a nationally critical bottleneck (at this point, along with only a couple of others). A southern bypass, even if the M20 proceeded, always had the potential to be underutilised. A shorter northern bypass as originally envisaged, to me, makes more sense.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1019/1224325458165.html

Smilerme · 19-10-2012 2:05pm

An Bord Pleanala reason for rejection is that "it would constitute isolated infrastructure, would not represent a coherent approach to the provision of major roads infrastructutre and furthermore would not have the potential to fulfill the functuions of the Scheme".

So the Board concludes that the scheme functions wouldn't be met. The scheme functions were:

(1) Remove a major bottleneck thereby improving economic efficiency and journey time reliability,

(2) Improve safety for all road users

(3) Divert traffic away from town centre

(4) Improve the town environment for residents, businesses & tourists

(5) Facilitate the expansion of the tourist / retail / industrial sectors in Adare.

A truely daming inditement of the scheme/route if the Board considers those functions couldn't be met. Clearly the Board thought the route didn't work at all.

The Board Direction notes that "The Board was not satisfied that the Route chosen (Blue Route) for bypassing the town was necessarily the optimum solution."

It goes on to state that "should a revised application be made in the future, consideration might be given to a further assessment of alternative routes"

So clearly the Board thought that the wrong route was chosen. Adare needs a bypass so LCC should just have run with their previously chosen route in 2005 & it would be built & in operation at this stage.

road_high · 21-10-2012 6:36pm

This is awful news...Was stuck outside Adare thurs eve coming form the Limerick city side on the N21. After 10+ mins going nowhere, I like many others, just turned around and headed along a few back roads and out the other side.
It's incredible such a vital piece of infrastructure could not be delivered. I'd say it's ahuger hinderance to investment in the Kerry/Limerick areas. Defo the worst bottle kneck left in Ireland.

Chris_5339762 · 22-10-2012 11:19am

Sorry, Claregalway is worse

New Ross is third on the list.

Limerick74 · 22-10-2012 1:14pm

Smilerme wrote: »

An Bord Pleanala reason for rejection is that "it would constitute isolated infrastructure, would not represent a coherent approach to the provision of major roads infrastructutre and furthermore would not have the potential to fulfill the functuions of the Scheme".

So the Board concludes that the scheme functions wouldn't be met. The scheme functions were:

(1) Remove a major bottleneck thereby improving economic efficiency and journey time reliability,

(2) Improve safety for all road users

(3) Divert traffic away from town centre

(4) Improve the town environment for residents, businesses & tourists

(5) Facilitate the expansion of the tourist / retail / industrial sectors in Adare.

A truely daming inditement of the scheme/route if the Board considers those functions couldn't be met. Clearly the Board thought the route didn't work at all.

The Board Direction notes that "The Board was not satisfied that the Route chosen (Blue Route) for bypassing the town was necessarily the optimum solution."

It goes on to state that "should a revised application be made in the future, consideration might be given to a further assessment of alternative routes"

So clearly the Board thought that the wrong route was chosen. Adare needs a bypass so LCC should just have run with their previously chosen route in 2005 & it would be built & in operation at this stage.

The 2005 route to the north is a non runner as it crosses the River Maigue SAC. European law doesn't let you impact on a SAC if there is a viable alternate (I.e. the route to the south that the board refused). So enjoy the traffic jam through Adare for the next 10-20 years!

Limerick74 · 07-02-2013 3:34pm

Article in Limerick Leader on the Adare Bypass

lottpaul · 07-02-2013 3:49pm

Limerick74 wrote: »

Article in Limerick Leader on the Adare Bypass

Thanks for that - good to see the idea hasn't been dropped but realistically you'd have to wonder where the funding etc would be found.
Seems like we'll be enjoying views of Adare for many years to come - surely looking at another route for the bypass means more planning enquiries, impact surveys etc etc?
Not that I was very impressed with the M20/bypass idea anyway -- it wouldn't really have improved things a lot for those of us from Kerry/West Limerick outside of peak congestion times.

Smilerme · 08-02-2013 11:05am

With the sothern route knocked down, it seems to me the requirement to consider alternatves before an SAC (special area conservation) can be considered / crossed has now been fulfilled.

So maybe now the shorter, more sensible northern route, can be rechosen. It makes so much sense as LCC previously chose this route as the preferred option in 2005 & spent millions (I've heard €5m) bringing it to the point where they could have published it & applied for planning permission. Unfortunately the decision not to go for it then led to the wasted years we have suffered since then.

Hopefully LCC will get a move on now & go for planning on the northern route ASAP

lottpaul · 08-02-2013 3:40pm

Travelled to Limerick and back today - first time on the improved road at Barnagh - still not fully completed yet but looks like a much safer, better road. Much longer climbing lane heading to Kerry will help a lot too.

road_high · 17-02-2013 4:32pm

Just had the unfortunate experience of driving this road again twice this weekend.
It's surely Ireland's most frustrating 2 lane carriageway to make progress on. There is/was a constant stream of 80kmh doodlers for miles on end. No sooner than you get a chance to overtake these morons, there's another few a couple miles up the road. Added to the large traffic volume it's nightmare. Maybe I'm so spoiled now travelling mainly on the new motorways but the N21 does my head in. I'd really hate to travel this daily. The stretch from Abeeyfeale-NewCastlewest-Adare is the one I'm mainly talking about. The road is quite wide in places and I'm sure with a bit of low cost engineering they could throw in a few overtaking lanes or dual carraigeway along parts of it.

Mc Love · 25-02-2013 1:13pm

Or if you get a chance to overtake, there is oncoming traffic

road_high · 21-03-2014 1:13am

So I've heard nothing about the Adare bypass for 18 months now. Is anything ever going to progress? It just sickens me the pathetic pace of delivery of vital infrastructure in this country. Is Limerick in particular in capable of pushing through projects? Apart from the bit of the M7 and M20 around the city, I can't think of a whole lot that was been built. The N24 remains another bad joke.

Cookiemunster · 21-03-2014 9:57am

road_high wrote: »

So I've heard nothing about the Adare bypass for 18 months now. Is anything ever going to progress? It just sickens me the pathetic pace of delivery of vital infrastructure in this country. Is Limerick in particular in capable of pushing through projects? Apart from the bit of the M7 and M20 around the city, I can't think of a whole lot that was been built. The N24 remains another bad joke.

The Adare bypass was canned months ago. ABP refused permission for the Southern route as the M20 which it was due to connect into isn't going ahead. It has nothing to do with the local authorities. The Government pulled the funding for the M20 when the recession hit and it never made it before ABP.
As for the N24 again that's upto the government to release funds before the NRA ( not the local authorities) get it through planning etc. None of these will be touched for years due to lack of funding.

Smilerme · 21-03-2014 1:00pm

What struck me when I read An Bord Pleanala's refusal was the section where they say that if / when LCC reapply for planning permission they should stay away from Fanningstown Castle. I would read this as a criticism of the route chosen by LCC as basically they seem to be saying don't choose that route again.

This should actually help LCCs case to go for the shorter (in fact shortest), most straightforward northern or black route that was chosen twice previously but never applied for planning. As the black route crosses an SAC, under European law LCC need to be able to say all other potential routes are not viable & therefore there is no choice but to cross the SAC. I think this note / comment with the BP decision effectively does that as any other Southern route will run through or too close to Adare Manor & will not be viable for that reason.

So in many ways this decision helps the position for Adare to get a bypass in the future (if when funds become available) as it re-opens the Northern route(s) and means it can be done separately from any motorway to Cork (which realistically wont happen for the next 20 years).

AugustusMinimus · 21-03-2014 1:47pm

Smilerme wrote: »

So in many ways this decision helps the position for Adare to get a bypass in the future (if when funds become available) as it re-opens the Northern route(s) and means it can be done separately from any motorway to Cork (which realistically wont happen for the next 20 years).

Would be quite hopeful of seeing the M20 back on the table in the life time of the next government. Outside of a number of projects which have already received funding, it is quite high priority.

road_high · 21-03-2014 4:42pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Would be quite hopeful of seeing the M20 back on the table in the life time of the next government. Outside of a number of projects which have already received funding, it is quite high priority.

Assuming the next govt will the same one as now, are the local Senior ministers Coveneny and Noonan pushing this?

Deedsie · 09-01-2015 1:42pm

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/contracts-signed-for-two-limerick-road-projects-657396.html

Mc Love · 09-01-2015 6:24pm

Where's the Killarney Pole?

ardmacha · 09-01-2015 7:06pm

Mc Love wrote: »

Where's the Killarney Pole?

At this time on a Friday evening, he's probably in the pub.

BelfastVanMan · 13-01-2015 4:23pm

ardmacha wrote: »

At this time on a Friday evening, he's probably in the pub.

Ha. Good one. :-)

Can anyone explain what will happen to the seamless merge between the N21 and M20 when both the Adare bypass and M20 are finally built?

Will it become the M20? Will the N21 start at the current onslip at the junction between the N20 and the M20?

veryangryman · 13-01-2015 4:25pm

This should answer

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m20+adare+bypass+map&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=882&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=vTi1VP_EGvHU7AbBvoCQBA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#imgdii=_&imgrc=SvWu0fWWEOkAWM%253A%3Ba3eL_zQR3sELWM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fen%252F7%252F73%252FAdare_bypass_update_2009.GIF%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FN21_road_(Ireland)%3B588%3B407

Cookiemunster · 13-01-2015 4:27pm

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Ha. Good one. :-)

Can anyone explain what will happen to the seamless merge between the N21 and M20 when both the Adare bypass and M20 are finally built?

Will it become the M20? Will the N21 start at the current onslip at the junction between the N20 and the M20?

No one knows where the Adare bypass is going to be situated so that question can't be answered at the minute. The original plan was to have a Northern bypass continue seamlessly from the current N20, but that was replaced with a spur off the new M20 South of Adare. Now apparently that plan is out the window too.

BelfastVanMan · 13-01-2015 4:41pm

At this rate, this is going to be as confusing as the M2/M22 merge in Northern Ireland!

Chris_5339762 · 14-01-2015 10:07pm

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

At this rate, this is going to be as confusing as the M2/M22 merge in Northern Ireland!

And this beast of a "brave man" junction right after the End Of Motorway chopsticks.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.74063,-6.34479,3a,75y,285.1h,83.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szzVuQTeiCz-fsBIyt3QXdQ!2e0?hl=en

mossieh · 23-02-2015 1:36pm

i see work has started at the Killarney pole for the next phase of widening between NCW and Barna. Are they planning to add a climbing lane to that section (eastbound) or is it too short? Either way, a welcome improvement.

Limerick74 · 04-03-2015 12:33pm

I see Limerick have updated the Foynes to Limerick web site (foyneslimerick.ie) with public consultation on the 10th & 11th March for the route corridor options.

N21 Thread

Comments