Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

catseye2 · 20-04-2014 9:28pm

cant argue with a league final with that level of chopping and changing .looks like cody has a strong hand for the championship with very few nailed down as starters

9 definites

e murphy
p murphy
jj
p walsh
m fennelly
c fennelly
tj
king henry
richie hogan

6 probables

b kennedy
c buckley
w walsh
b hogan
r power
c buckley

a full team from the remaining possibles

herity
c. fogarty
m walsh
joey holden
t walsh
jackie
k joyce
m rice
lester
jj farrell
larkin
alyward
j.power
m. kelly
taggy

thats some depth - particularly in back 8

pmy.murphy · 21-04-2014 3:33am

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Not really, we help grow the game we love. I certainly feel no obligation to football, a sport about which I don't care in the least. I love hurling and help out in any way I can to protect and grow that sport. That seems simple enough to me. I would like to see us play better in football but I certainly wouldn't give of my spare time to help out.

I agree completely there, as do the vast majority in the county young and old feel no obligation to football whatsoever. Lads do not even want to be playing it as evidenced by the ridiculous amount of walkovers with Club football games every year and rescheduled games being played 2 years later like a Minor Championship 2 or 3 years ago which was from 2 years previously. I am a hurler myself still active at a high level on the club scene and personally I dont want any involvement in football, im quite good at it too but I hate playing it and just have no interest. The last time I played football I got sent off and Ive just blatently refused to play ever since cos I think its a load of balls. By all means its our native sport but we just dont have any interest in it at all

JayIre · 21-04-2014 1:11pm

Last year I had a Waterford man (a good friend) tell me Kilkennys reign of dominance has come to an end. Although I could sense the bitterness seeming from his every pour, I still wasn't sure about our future with the likes of Henry, Tommy, JJ, Jackie etc hitting the twilight of their careers. Those guys have been absolute warriors for Kilkenny and some of the best hurlers of our generation.

It'll be hard to replicate what we've done in recent years but the excitement is back, everyone is buzzing again and rightly so.
I'm pretty confident we'll go a long way in the NHC this year and the squad depth looks top notch.
Some of the young lads coming through look very capable.

Not the greatest of performances yesterday but they stepped up second half when needed done. Roll on the Tipp game.

savannahkat · 21-04-2014 2:08pm

Do we keep experimenting or do we start settling the team. The league final game being the last one before championship will give Brian Cody and Co plenty of selection headaches. I do not believe Tommy Walsh Jackie Tyrrell or Brian Hogan are finished yet Brian Kennedy, Padraigh Walsh and Cillian Buckley have done noting to warrant being replaced.
Again yesterday I did not see Ritchie Hogan establishing himself as a permanent midfielder. I would prefer to see Padraigh Walsh or lester Ryan out there.
Walter Walsh and Mark Kelly as said by some one earlier were anonymous, however I would give both a chance again and start with the same six forwards with the exception of Henry whom I would rest. We know what he can do and we should save him for championship.

I would pick
E Murphy
Paul Murphy JJ Delaney Brian Kennedy
J Holden Brian Hogan Cillian Buckley
M Fennelly Padraigh Walsh
Walter Walsh Colin Fennelly TJ Reid
John Power Mark Kelly Ritchie power

Fort Stranger · 21-04-2014 4:24pm

I don't think Henry will want to miss a final, they are all precious to him now and especially against Tipp! I would like to see the 2 powers, Henry, TJ, Richie Hogan and Colin Fennelly start in the forwards, plenty of scores in that six, with Fenno and Lester in the middle. great aerial power in that line-up as well. Backs and keeper stay the same!

Grats · 21-04-2014 4:31pm

Are posters, who weren't at the match, aware that there was a very strong wind which we played against in the first half? Hence the notable improvement in the second half playing with the wind, although it eased at times in the second half. It was a case of digging deep in there during the first half and I with been just five points down at half time I was confident we'd win. Of course the performance wasn't perfect but that will come in the Leinster championship.

Some posters referred to missed chances by Galway but we had up to four missed goal chances. Also, we had four changes in the backs from the last day against Wexford, so the experimenting was still in progress. The training field will sharpen up things big time in the coming weeks.

I read where A Cunningham was having a go at the ref in his after match interviews, well he never stopped badgering the officials during the game - although in fairness nothing like the badgering from Fitz in the second game. Galway were well up for the game, love playing in Limerick and saw no problem with the ref beforehand so I guess their manager has to be disappointed.

Henry was top class yesterday. His work rate is exceptional and it is partly what separates him from the likes of Joe Canning. Amusing when you hear commentators remark "where were the markers" when in fact great credit is due to Henry for slipping his marker. After so many years they still haven't copped on!

barneygumble99 · 21-04-2014 4:40pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Do we keep experimenting or do we start settling the team. The league final game being the last one before championship will give Brian Cody and Co plenty of selection headaches. I do not believe Tommy Walsh Jackie Tyrrell or Brian Hogan are finished yet Brian Kennedy, Padraigh Walsh and Cillian Buckley have done noting to warrant being replaced.
Again yesterday I did not see Ritchie Hogan establishing himself as a permanent midfielder. I would prefer to see Padraigh Walsh or lester Ryan out there.
Walter Walsh and Mark Kelly as said by some one earlier were anonymous, however I would give both a chance again and start with the same six forwards with the exception of Henry whom I would rest. We know what he can do and we should save him for championship.

I would pick
E Murphy
Paul Murphy JJ Delaney Brian Kennedy
J Holden Brian Hogan Cillian Buckley
M Fennelly Padraigh Walsh
Walter Walsh Colin Fennelly TJ Reid
John Power Mark Kelly Ritchie power

I said walter walsh was fairly anonymous yesterday but overall i think he's had a very good league campaign, compared to last year he's been like a new addition to the squad. I still think Kilkenny is in bother with center back, brian hogan was shaky yesterday but i wouldn't rule him out, need someone big and strong there and he's a good man under a puck-out.
I don't think Richie Hogan is suited to midfield, I'd like to see him wing forward in the league final.

I'd go with

E Murphy
P Murphy Jj Kenneddy
P Walsh hogan buckley
m fennelly tj reid
Walter Colin R Hogan
J Power Henry Larkin

joey holden, mark kelly, richie power, lester ryan, rice, joyce and jackie in no particular order after that

Grats · 21-04-2014 4:51pm

The experimenting will most likely continue in the Final. Win or lose a lot of good work has been carried out and will only come to fruition in the championship.

If Henry is fit to play in the Final I would start him. I agree that R Hogan has got to be moved out of centre field but a lot of effort has gone into him there. We may eventually discover that there is in fact nobody better suited to the midfield spot. In my opinion Larkin is best as an impact sub in future. Thought B Hogan did ok yesterday but would still go for Jackie. Wally was somewhat subdued yesterday but after the injury he picked up in Wexford I was surprised to see him back at all. He'll be fine. The half forward line has to be Wally, C Fennelly and TJ. All good ball winners.

We have Clare in the opening of the Village new grounds on May 18th. It is then we might get a clearer idea of the likely starting 15.

Kkid · 22-04-2014 11:17am

Just one observation that has come through. A lot of people are dropping Mark Kelly from their team and I can see that he was poor on Sunday last but cody should stick with him for at least one more game. You will learn a lot about Mark from the gamer in Thurles, a final is always a game that will tell you the most about a player. Especially when its a final against the home side. I think Galways tactics were to stifle Kilkenny through the middle, and not allow Colin, Mick F, Richie H and others to get a running game going. Because of this it ensured that Mark got very little service. He caught one great ball and passed to Henry for a great Power chance but bar that he did little else. His man did get the better of him but I’d like to see him given one more chance.

I was a little disappointed with a few players, particularly Richie H and Walter but these are just a bad day and everyone has them. I think Richie is a much better option than Lester personally, he’s slow, weak, tactically naive and worst of all I don’t see him marking or tightening up when this is needed in games. I was very impressed with Padraig Wealsh (obviously) and Brian Kennedy but the biggest plus for me is Cillian Buckley, Tactically aware, strong running, good under a high ball but swept up a lot too and himself and Kennedy could be a partnership on that wing as good as we have seen in a while.

savannahkat · 22-04-2014 1:44pm

Our minors play Dublin next Saturday in the park. Any one in the know here have any idea of what kind of team we have this year.With both Kieran's and the CBS having contested the recent colleges final we should be fairly strong but that is not always the case.

Kilkennyfella · 22-04-2014 3:59pm

Kkid wrote: »

Just one observation that has come through. A lot of people are dropping Mark Kelly from their team and I can see that he was poor on Sunday last but cody should stick with him for at least one more game. You will learn a lot about Mark from the gamer in Thurles, a final is always a game that will tell you the most about a player. Especially when its a final against the home side. I think Galways tactics were to stifle Kilkenny through the middle, and not allow Colin, Mick F, Richie H and others to get a running game going. Because of this it ensured that Mark got very little service. He caught one great ball and passed to Henry for a great Power chance but bar that he did little else. His man did get the better of him but I’d like to see him given one more chance.

I was a little disappointed with a few players, particularly Richie H and Walter but these are just a bad day and everyone has them. I think Richie is a much better option than Lester personally, he’s slow, weak, tactically naive and worst of all I don’t see him marking or tightening up when this is needed in games. I was very impressed with Padraig Wealsh (obviously) and Brian Kennedy but the biggest plus for me is Cillian Buckley, Tactically aware, strong running, good under a high ball but swept up a lot too and himself and Kennedy could be a partnership on that wing as good as we have seen in a while.

You're hardly an O Loughlins man????

Kkid · 22-04-2014 4:53pm

I am indeed!!

ellinguistico · 22-04-2014 5:10pm

Kkid wrote: »

Just one observation that has come through. A lot of people are dropping Mark Kelly from their team and I can see that he was poor on Sunday last but cody should stick with him for at least one more game. You will learn a lot about Mark from the gamer in Thurles, a final is always a game that will tell you the most about a player. Especially when its a final against the home side. I think Galways tactics were to stifle Kilkenny through the middle, and not allow Colin, Mick F, Richie H and others to get a running game going. Because of this it ensured that Mark got very little service. He caught one great ball and passed to Henry for a great Power chance but bar that he did little else. His man did get the better of him but I’d like to see him given one more chance.

I was a little disappointed with a few players, particularly Richie H and Walter but these are just a bad day and everyone has them. I think Richie is a much better option than Lester personally, he’s slow, weak, tactically naive and worst of all I don’t see him marking or tightening up when this is needed in games. I was very impressed with Padraig Wealsh (obviously) and Brian Kennedy but the biggest plus for me is Cillian Buckley, Tactically aware, strong running, good under a high ball but swept up a lot too and himself and Kennedy could be a partnership on that wing as good as we have seen in a while.

Agree with pretty much all of this. Richie Hogan at midfield will look far more dangerous when Mick Fennelly gets properly fit and mobile, still think they will be a good foil for each other. Cillian Buckley looks so proactive on the pitch, hungry and buzzing all the time he is well able to hurl too. I was a bit sceptical of him up till now but on Sunday's basis he looks to have lots of potential.
What do people think of TJ taking over placed ball duty? Could be a master stroke as TJ's a confidence player and a few frees would be a good confidence lubricant for him potentially and the less stress Henry has is surely for the better. If we need a goal from a 21' or a penalty I would back TJ more than Henry so maybe it's a good move.

savannahkat · 22-04-2014 6:06pm

Cillian Buckley always has something special from underage up. If he had not then Cody would not have persevered with him. Once gain Cody has that eye for potential and making a player rise to that potential when most of us mortals cannot see it. Similarly with Mark Kelly. He has something about him that brings a new dimension to Kilkenny's play and no better man again than Cody to make him bring it out. I have always had doubts about Ritchie Hogan at midfield and still have. It is grand to play winter hurling there but he has never impressed me at midfield when the sod was dry.He is a brilliant corner forward and that is where he should be selected. Center back is our main concern at present. Brian Hogan Jackie and lester are the only ones vying for that position and I think Jackie is slightly shading it at the moment but one way or the other we are not commanding that position to the degree that Brian Hogan has previously been doing. We are going to face a barrage of teams whose main gambit will be to try and run through our center because there is no team out there who will beat us for the high dropping direct ball.

Grats · 22-04-2014 6:07pm

I'm not an O'Loughlins man but fully agree that Mark Kelly should be started the next day. Not all of the forwards played up to scratch on Sun - we only scored 1.16 - so I wouldn't be in any rush to drop him. Remember last year the likes of C Fennelly, R Power and others were off form so we shouldn't be in a rush to write off anybody. Every player gave their all in the Walsh Cup and League and all are well primed now to play some part in the coming months.

mercury16 · 22-04-2014 6:58pm

Agree Mark Kelly deserves another game...but he has a hell of a lot of toughening up to do. John Power came in and played on Sunday after just 30mins spell previously against Dublin and looked far more dangerous, and got on the ball more. Kelly has had loads of time, got lot of ball played to him on Sunday and hardly had it in his hand once. Also J Power is better to link up with others, and although he scored the goal and the fourth time of asking, he got into the right positions to do so on Sunday.

Buckley played decent enough except for the puckouts where I was nearly going to hop the fence and tell him put up the hurl and stop the Galwayman getting posession in the air...it must have been four or five puckouts in a row where he tried to compete in the air and lost to the bigger man. No shame in losing out to the much bigger man, but ther is shame in continuing a losing approach and not changing tac. Cody went down and had a strong line of advice for him. Its this obvious inability to change whats obviously not working is what worries me about him. That being said I would continue with him.

Wally was not right from moment go...he wasn't right in himself, wasn't hobbling due to the hip...but is he still suffering from it?

B Hogan, played way better compared to other days and is coming on...was slow in his striking and turning but that'll quicken, and also he has no relationship with the wing backs that were playing to offload the ball. Saying all that Galway dominated our half forward line and were at least 50:50 if not 60:40 in the middle and ran everything down the middle at him. He saw way more of the game than he normally does.

Kennedy at corner back..was like watching Eddie O'Connor at his best... a terrier. Was surprised to see Cody let him on Canning at the start but he gave Canning a roasting. When you see them move a player like Canning off the lad and onto JJ (of all players) to try and get him into the game...the lads doing well. Still suspect from high ball into the square though.

Padraig Walsh... was like a Tommy Walsh from the mid noughties. If all the other midfield players are fit i,e. Rice, Fennelly, Lester Ryan, and Tommy wins his place back which I expect he will, Joyce could be sitting on the bench. I can see the two Walsh's being the wing backs.

The Galway side for those who weren't there were a very physical team and the smaller lads, aka Smyth at wing forward are no pushovers.

Kennedy and Tyrell are fighting for left corner back.
B Hogan, Tyrell and potentially Joyce are fighting for centre back.
R Hogan, L Ryan, Rice and M Fennelly for midfield
R Hogan, Rice, W Walsh, C Fennelly, TJ Reid, R Power for half forward
Shefflin, R Hogan, Larkin, John Power, Taggy, M Kelly for the full forward line.

I thought that both sides were that fit and lacked sharpness, especially whn you saw the second game where it looked the game was played at championship pace. KK will have it tough to beat Tipp as Tipp are further ahead in the training in my view, but here's the dilema - would you go with the youth again and probably lose or play a stronger side and inflict more mental damage on Tipp when it comes to playing KK?

mercury16 · 22-04-2014 7:01pm

Agree Mark Kelly deserves another game...but he has a hell of a lot of toughening up to do. John Power came in and played on Sunday after just 30mins spell previously against Dublin and looked far more dangerous, and got on the ball more. Kelly has had loads of time, got lot of ball played to him on Sunday and hardly had it in his hand once. Also J Power is better to link up with others, and although he scored the goal and the fourth time of asking, he got into the right positions to do so on Sunday.

Buckley played decent enough except for the puckouts where I was nearly going to hop the fence and tell him put up the hurl and stop the Galwayman getting posession in the air...it must have been four or five puckouts in a row where he tried to compete in the air and lost to the bigger man. No shame in losing out to the much bigger man, but ther is shame in continuing a losing approach and not changing tac. Cody went down and had a strong line of advice for him. Its this obvious inability to change whats obviously not working is what worries me about him. That being said I would continue with him.

Wally was not right from moment go...he wasn't right in himself, wasn't hobbling due to the hip...but is he still suffering from it?

B Hogan, played way better compared to other days and is coming on...was slow in his striking and turning but that'll quicken, and also he has no relationship with the wing backs that were playing to offload the ball. Saying all that Galway dominated our half forward line and were at least 50:50 if not 60:40 in the middle and ran everything down the middle at him. He saw way more of the game than he normally does.

Kennedy at corner back..was like watching Eddie O'Connor at his best... a terrier. Was surprised to see Cody let him on Canning at the start but he gave Canning a roasting. When you see them move a player like Canning off the lad and onto JJ (of all players) to try and get him into the game...the lads doing well. Still suspect from high ball into the square though.

Padraig Walsh... was like a Tommy Walsh from the mid noughties. If all the other midfield players are fit i,e. Rice, Fennelly, Lester Ryan, and Tommy wins his place back which I expect he will, Joyce could be sitting on the bench. I can see the two Walsh's being the wing backs.

The Galway side for those who weren't there were a very physical team and the smaller lads, aka Smyth at wing forward are no pushovers.

Kennedy and Tyrell are fighting for left corner back.
B Hogan, Tyrell and potentially Joyce are fighting for centre back.
R Hogan, L Ryan, Rice and M Fennelly for midfield
R Hogan, Rice, W Walsh, C Fennelly, TJ Reid, R Power for half forward
Shefflin, R Hogan, Larkin, John Power, Taggy, M Kelly for the full forward line.

I thought that both sides were not that fit and lacked sharpness, especially when you saw the second game where it looked the game was played at championship pace. KK will have it tough to beat Tipp as Tipp are further ahead in the training in my view, but here's the dilema - would you go with the youth again and probably lose or play a stronger side and inflict more mental damage on Tipp when it comes to playing KK?

pmy.murphy · 22-04-2014 7:03pm

savannahkat wrote: »

Our minors play Dublin next Saturday in the park. Any one in the know here have any idea of what kind of team we have this year.With both Kieran's and the CBS having contested the recent colleges final we should be fairly strong but that is not always the case.

I think theres a good few from last year that are still under age this year as far as I know and id imagine there will be a good few off the schools teams on it. Other for that I havent heard very much about it at all. Is there anyone who can provide some insight on it?

savannahkat · 22-04-2014 7:53pm

mercury16 wrote: »

but here's the dilema - would you go with the youth again and probably lose or play a stronger side and inflict more mental damage on Tipp when it comes to playing KK?

Ya cannot inflict enough damage on Tipp either mentally or physically. THERE IS NO DILEMA.:D

citykat · 22-04-2014 11:39pm

Popping my cherry here folks…
Was at the game at the weekend.
Very impressed with Brian Kennedy. Thought (as referred earlier) he gave Canning a roasting. On this display and injury permitting he’ll start in the final. I’d say Jackie is sweating.
Padraig Walsh MOTM – nothing more needs to be said. Definite starter for final.
Thought Cillian Buckley played his best game for KK yet. Thought he has looked headless/clueless at times in the past particularly seeming to fumble ball when in plenty of space/time.
Thought Mick Fen was only alright. Didn’t seem to get up to the pace until the 2nd half when the team was motoring. Similarly Richie Hogan though he still hit his quota of wides. Still a big fan of his and would definitely leave him in midfield for now.
Wally had a ‘mare enough said.
Henry was majestic. Some great overhead strikes. Great energy and made one great run in 2nd half to receive the pass from Lester. Didn’t see Power in space on one occasion proving he’s human after all.
Colin Fen – thought he was unlucky to have the goal disallowed – think the helmet coming off Burke swayed the ref. Bit quieter than previous games but still a major threat. Has really grown in this league. Not surprising given his barnstorming displays for Shamrocks these days.
John Power – seemed to miss a lot of ball but I believe he has great raw talent. If he had taken half of his missed chances Kilkenny would have won handsomely. Not sure if he’ll be started come the final but’ll definitely make an appearance at some stage.
Mark Kelly – very quiet. Completely out of the game. His emergence this year has been a complete surprise to me as he never caught my eye for the loughs (maybe I don’t go to enough of their games). If Power/Larkin are fit, I think he may give way for the final.
Brian Hogan – really came into it in the second half when the HB (+FB!) line was dominant. He’s not back to his best by any means. I wouldn’t rule out Jackie or even Kieran Joyce for CB yet.
BTW – first time in a long time in Limerick for a match. There for ca. 12:45. Still ended up over a mile from the ground! Can’t wait for Thurles on the 4th.

savannahkat · 23-04-2014 3:37am

Extract from the Irish Examiner

(Five-season football record: Kilkenny minors 1-3, The Rest 30-133. What's the point? If anybody can explain the purpose of Kilkenny competing in the Leinster minor football championship, then could they please come forward and make their case.
Kilkenny lost to Offaly by 7-30 to 0-2 last Saturday in a mis-match that did nothing for either group of players.It wasn't a one-off either as Kilkenny's results over the previous four seasons read: 2013: Kildare 2-29 Kilkenny 0-1; 2012: Offaly 8-30 Kilkenny 1-0; 2011: Wexford 7-17 Kilkenny 0-0; 2010: Meath 6-27 Kilkenny 0-0.That's a total score of 30-133 to 1-3 against Kilkenny. The system allows for first-round losers to get a second chance but Kilkenny didn't avail of the 'privilege' in recent seasons.After five years when Kilkenny's average defeat is 43.4 points per game, isn't it time to end the sham?Competing for the sake of it is one thing but this is ritual humiliation.)

I could not agree more with these sentiments. It is time for us to end the sham of pretending we give one iota about the game. We don't and we never will.

savannahkat · 23-04-2014 3:47am

Oops! that was an extract from the Independent. Apologies to them.

droppingball · 23-04-2014 11:37am

I thought we looked a bit lethargic at times but all in all I would be happy enough with how things went. We wouldn't have frightened anyone and it is nice to have plenty to work on. Barnstorming performances at this stage probably wouldn't help and we need everyone chomping at the bit

Eoin Murphy, Solid as always
Paul Murphy, his usual tigerish self and is now picking out passes nicely as well
JJ, Will be caught for scores here and there but he is still class act and he will foul if required to stop a goal chance, such an intelligent player
Brian Kennedy, after the first ball he tangled with Canning and he laid down a marker that he was not intimidated by him and gave big Joe as good as he got in the exchange. His stickwork on Sunday was top class, like to see him stay corner back for the year
P Walsh, like Tommy of old, wherever the ball went he was there, once he gets another year of gym/inter county training into him he will be get even better
Hogan, Ok got blocked and bottled up a few times, but held the centre, stopped man and ball coming through the channel and grew into the match. Teams will look to exploit his pace but I would start him again in the final
Cillian Buckley, had a cracking game, has really suprised me in the league, can jump into tackles to quickly which takes him out of the game but his man marking job on sutcliffe in parnell park is what stands out for me in the league
Mick Fennelly, struggled to get involved in the game but improved as the game went on, just needs plenty of matches and no injuries
R Hogan, thought he was constantly trying to do too much instead of just delivering the ball, I would move him into full forward for the final
Walter, really struggled against a man of similar size to him, definitley worth his place but will need to up it again
Colin Fennelly, Again worked hard, shows the year he has had when you think he was quiet and he still scored 3/4 from play
TJ, so so from TJ, he is incredible in the air, half forward spot should be his
John Power, should develop and will get sharper with training and following more recovery from his hamstring problems but just looks sluggish and slow at the minute, one for the future, his brother will probably take his place if he recovers
M Kelly, struggled a little, he is a handful, can see him getting a start against Offaly and its whether he takes his chance then or not
Henry, best performance from him so far, he is making early runs to allow for the legs which look bad when his man can be left to clear handy ball, but when on the ball or out first the man oozes class, so creative for those around him as well, he is still worth his place. I fear there will be days where he will struggle to win primary possession but there will be one or two big games in him this year

All in all when you consider that Jackie, Larkin, Richie and Rice are waiting in the wings we are in decent shape. Lets hope injuries stay away.

Omn another note I was terribly disappointed with Clare, I do believe however that Davy was boxing clever as I think Kilkenny want a crack at Clare more than they want one at us for the simple reason his that Davy knows that the more Kilkenny play Clare the more Cody will learn how to beat there system. So Davy will probably happy enough that Tipp and KK are in the spotlight and will knock lumos out of each other.

Also looks like someone has finally got under Seamus Callanan skin and his getting performances out of him, seems to be a serious threat so far this year. Interesting to see how the year will develop. None of the teams stuck there heads above the parapet on Sunday anyway so its all to play for.

Toblerone1978 · 23-04-2014 1:26pm

Good post dropping ball, I agree with a lot if what you said. I think Richie maybe too selfish with the ball. It's not a bad sign a hurler is selfish with the ball, it shows he is willing to take the game on, I think he is probably too selfish for midfield - as you said, he's not distributing good enough. Probably more suited 'up the field'.

IrishAlice · 23-04-2014 1:50pm

Totally agree about Davy boxing clever. Can't see him being too disappointed about not getting to the league final as his eyes are firmly on September. With such a young team there's no way they're not thinking a double is within their grasp.

Would have loved for us to get another crack at them now that the newer players have gotten more game time under their belts. We'll have to settle for Tipp though

Woodlock and Callinan have really been the stand out players for me on the Tipp team this league.

Maybe Lar will be back and we'll have a repeat of the goings on last year!

premierstone · 23-04-2014 2:00pm

Grats wrote: »

Absolutely on the money and that's precisely why I drew him out. This is the very same poster who couldn't stay off this forum in the run up to our league game with Tipp and then disappeared until his county won a game or two!

He ought to concern himself with the many issues that O'Shea is trying to address with the Tipp panel.

If you are going to make false accusation I suggest you actually check your facts! The game you refer to took place on February 23rd, my only post here in the preceeding 6 weeks was in relation to the storm damage to Nowlan Park, and I was on here posting the day after KK beat Tipp, so please please refrain from talking rubbish like a good little lad

Junior D wrote: »

In fairness to Premierstone, I can see his point of view. Tommy's performances have been in decline in the last 2 years, I don't think theres any denying. He has had some poor games and has made some mistakes the pre-2012 Tommy would never have made. I think come championship games though, he has the ability and the temperament to step up and still be a top class wing-back as proven by last years championship games IMO.

The pre-2012 Tommy was pretty much untouchable, probably the best all-round wing-back the game has ever seen.

As for the 2012 league, to say he was well-beaten by those mentioned I think is bit of an exaggeration, apart from Sutcliffe in Nowlan Park. But after all the hurling Tommy has done over the years and his advancing age, I wouldn't put to much weight into these performances. After all, the big one is in September, not April!

Well beaten is probably over stating it fair enough but in comparison to what we had become accustomed to anyone even achieving parity against Tommy was a major shock!.

droppingball · 23-04-2014 2:24pm

I really wanted a crack of clare to see how we would handle there movement, we know how to play tipperary. Risky ploy from davy seeing as he won't have a game for a while.

He wasn't willing to give away anything by playing 12 defenders and three forwards, there were times where collins and ryan were outnumbered 6 to 2, I thought they were going to open the shoulders with the wind but davy kept it tight. I think he may do the same until he gets out of Munster although that is far from a certainty by any stretch. He might be trying to box to clever.

I prefer Codys mantra of having a go and trying to win everything whilst experimenting.

savannahkat · 23-04-2014 2:27pm

If Davy was boxing clever and by that I suppose it is meant that he Davy designed some kind of plan where it did not matter if Clare won or lost against Tiperary then Davy is not doing any favors to Clare. Since 1999 Brian Cody who has ruled over more All Ireland winning teams than any one in history has always maintained that winning your next match was always the most important. No, I would not buy into the idea that you can turn it off and on at will. Clare beat a poor Cork in last years A.I and even then it took a replay to do it. Since then the national scribes are pouring good ink after bad filling column inches about Clare's riches. This particular Clare King wears no clothes and I believe that will be found out come Munster championship time and the qualifiers will further prove it..

IrishAlice · 23-04-2014 2:49pm

savannahkat wrote: »

If Davy was boxing clever and by that I suppose it is meant that he Davy designed some kind of plan where it did not matter if Clare won or lost against Tiperary then Davy is not doing any favors to Clare. Since 1999 Brian Cody who has ruled over more All Ireland winning teams than any one in history has always maintained that winning your next match was always the most important. No, I would not buy into the idea that you can turn it off and on at will. Clare beat a poor Cork in last years A.I and even then it took a replay to do it. Since then the national scribes are pouring good ink after bad filling column inches about Clare's riches. This particular Clare King wears no clothes and I believe that will be found out come Munster championship time and the qualifiers will further prove it..

I would think he's boxing clever in that he doesn't want the team to peak too soon and is playing the long game.

I saw them playing Cork in the Munster Semi's in Limerick last year and they were absolutely abysmal but really did go from strength to strength after that. In that sense I think they deserved their win last year.

In saying that I think they're going to get a shock when they come up against this Kilkenny team at championship pace.

With all the new players Cody has been trying out and key players injury free unlike last year all the signs are promising for us.

premierstone · 23-04-2014 2:59pm

savannahkat wrote: »

If Davy was boxing clever and by that I suppose it is meant that he Davy designed some kind of plan where it did not matter if Clare won or lost against Tiperary then Davy is not doing any favors to Clare. Since 1999 Brian Cody who has ruled over more All Ireland winning teams than any one in history has always maintained that winning your next match was always the most important. No, I would not buy into the idea that you can turn it off and on at will. Clare beat a poor Cork in last years A.I and even then it took a replay to do it. Since then the national scribes are pouring good ink after bad filling column inches about Clare's riches. This particular Clare King wears no clothes and I believe that will be found out come Munster championship time and the qualifiers will further prove it..

Agree totally and remember it took them a replay to beat Wexford prior to that, they have wonderfully talented players but are far far from the finished article.

And there is no way in hell they weren't trying to win on Sunday, first of all it is Tipp and any Clare player that says they don't want to beat Tipp at every given opportunity is a liar, secondly they haven't actually won a league for 35 odd years and thirdly just have a look back at the body language of Davy and tell me he wasn't bothered about it!

Clare had a very distinctive style of hurling last year and it became effective as they mastered it, but as Tipp discovered in 2011 you need to evolve and having one very distinctive style of play will not cut it, especially with someone like Cody around, all the other teams have basically had the last 6 months to think about how to counteract what Clare were doing last year, they will need to vary it somewhat, because if they dont then the likes of Tony Kewlly will not get the room he did last year.

droppingball · 23-04-2014 4:27pm

James Owens selected to referee the league final, there is another match ruined with players not knowing which way frees are going and inconsistent decisions.

I thought the referees were good last sunday it has to be said. Owens is very fussy and tends to make bizarre calls.

Grats · 23-04-2014 4:35pm

premierstone wrote: »

Agree totally and remember it took them a replay to beat Wexford prior to that, they have wonderfully talented players but are far far from the finished article.

And there is no way in hell they weren't trying to win on Sunday, first of all it is Tipp and any Clare player that says they don't want to beat Tipp at every given opportunity is a liar, secondly they haven't actually won a league for 35 odd years and thirdly just have a look back at the body language of Davy and tell me he wasn't bothered about it!

Clare had a very distinctive style of hurling last year and it became effective as they mastered it, but as Tipp discovered in 2011 you need to evolve and having one very distinctive style of play will not cut it, especially with someone like Cody around, all the other teams have basically had the last 6 months to think about how to counteract what Clare were doing last year, they will need to vary it somewhat, because if they dont then the likes of Tony Kewlly will not get the room he did last year.[/quote

I agree entirely with the above and the previous post. Davy was behaving like a lunatic last Sun, hardly a sign he didn't care! Indeed the most relaxed manager in Limerick was Cody and we all know his will to win.

I've referred to it before and it was obvious again last Sun, Clare players over carry quite a lot. They need to do this in order to build up the momentum that allows them move at speed. Sooner or later refs will cop on to this.

Tipp had their homework done and dealt with the Clare style admirably. I know summer hurling will be different but from here on every team will test Clare and going will be tougher this year. Interesting times ahead!

citykat · 23-04-2014 5:48pm

Agree with Grats et al. Clare wanted to win on Sun. They picked a full team; warmed up as normal; contested every ball; protested every perceived wrong call from the ref; the little man himself was at the ref from the word go. If they were throwing that game they concealed it magnificently.

To me they looked like a bunch of headless chickens. The FB was taking the puck out, soloing to the halfway line and running straight into a wall of Tipp men. IMO they were very fortunate to defeat a poor Cork team in the AI. They rode the crest of an emotional wave last year. They,re gonna need something more substantial this year to retain the title.

citykat · 23-04-2014 5:53pm

droppingball wrote: »

James Owens selected to referee the league final, there is another match ruined with players not knowing which way frees are going and inconsistent decisions.

I thought the referees were good last sunday it has to be said. Owens is very fussy and tends to make bizarre calls.

Wouldn't concur about refs on Sun. Thought McGrath got some calls wrong for both sides. Then seemed to try make it up by blowing the next ball regardless of merit.

Would concur on Owens though. Not up to IC std at all viz Waterford last year.

Toblerone1978 · 23-04-2014 5:55pm

citykat wrote: »

Agree with Grats et al. Clare wanted to win on Sun. They picked a full team; warmed up as normal; contested every ball; protested every perceived wrong call from the ref; the little man himself was at the ref from the word go. If they were throwing that game they concealed it magnificently.

To me they looked like a bunch of headless chickens. The FB was taking the puck out, soloing to the halfway line and running straight into a wall of Tipp men. IMO they were very fortunate to defeat a poor Cork team in the AI. They rode the crest of an emotional wave last year. They,re gonna need something more substantial this year to retain the title.

I don't think posters are suggesting Clare threw the match. Rather they didn't taper down in training for the days leading to the match; basically trained as normal and didn't give any real allowance to the match. The Clare lads has pace to burn which wasn't there on Sunday - that is probably due to the legs being tired rather than Clare having a bad day or Tipp hurled them out of it (which they did ).

citykat · 23-04-2014 9:02pm

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

I don't think posters are suggesting Clare threw the match. Rather they didn't taper down in training for the days leading to the match; basically trained as normal and didn't give any real allowance to the match. The Clare lads has pace to burn which wasn't there on Sunday - that is probably due to the legs being tired rather than Clare having a bad day or Tipp hurled them out of it (which they did ).

This 'running the legs' off players is often cited in mitigation of a losing performance. I don't buy it. I can't imagine any physical trainer advocating such an approach. Running the legs off lads leads to one thing, injury. Clare for whatever reason, possibly psychological, were beaten by a better team on Sun.
In addition to some incredible individual performances, they got the rub of the green last year. They're unlikely to be as fortunate this year. Worthy champions at least aspire to retain their title otherwise they're just one offs. Look at Tipp.

droppingball · 23-04-2014 10:03pm

I believe that the clare players wanted to win and that davy believed they could win by sitting back deep with a sweeper and still win.

I also believe that clare are all systems and it is very regimented and slow in their build up with kelly and podge collins and o donnell left to play the off the cuff stuff. I think he decided to leave donnellan sweeping and not to play the system they developed late on in the year last year that actually won them the all ireland purely not to show his hand.

So what I think happened was they went at it as normal trying to win and davy held them back unbeknowns to the players obviously with a restrictive game plan.

I think its foolish as you cant turn it on and off and a game plan needs fine tuning. But that is Davy for ya.

A high workrate which we have with physicality to stop them breaking tackles, a sprinkling of pace at the back which we are working on and taking your chances which we are well capable of and this clare team will be beaten. I think we are well equipped even if we have dropped from our high standards.

savannahkat · 24-04-2014 1:39pm

HoganStand
Hoban expecting "big, big challenge"
24 April 2014
Pat Hoban expects Dublin to put it up to his Kilkenny minor hurling team this weekend.The Cats open the defence of their Leinster MHC crown against the Dubs in Nowlan Park on Saturday afternoon and Hoban knows it'll be a tricky tie: "We were lucky enough to see Dublin play Wexford in the championship this year," he told The Kilkenny People. "They have a big, strong, physical team, with many of last year's side still eligible. They'll be up there at the top challenging for honours."The reality of hurling in Dublin means that they are going to have a very good minor side every year from now on, which is good for the game.
"It'll be a big, big challenge for us, but if we can get things right on the field it'll take a good team to beat us.

That tells us a lot about our minor team. It must be a state secret who the panel are but I suppose we will be told tonight.

TheBomber14 · 24-04-2014 5:14pm

tipp will be shown up for what they really are come the league final. Seamus callinan, john o dwyer, mcgrath etc. Lovely loose ball wristy hurlers, dont want to mix it if u put it up to them. I can see the kilkenny backs atin them alive as usual. Clare wanted to lose that semi final sure, the dog on the street knows that. davy didnt give a **** whether he lost or won that game, he has said since that loss that his preperations will be better this way anyway.

premierstone · 24-04-2014 5:34pm

TheBomber14 wrote: »

tipp will be shown up for what they really are come the league final. Seamus callinan, john o dwyer, mcgrath etc. Lovely loose ball wristy hurlers, dont want to mix it if u put it up to them. I can see the kilkenny backs atin them alive as usual. Clare wanted to lose that semi final sure, the dog on the street knows that. davy didnt give a **** whether he lost or won that game, he has said since that loss that his preperations will be better this way anyway.

Your analysis is as always spot on to be fair Bomber, agree 100% infact if KK don't win by at least a point a man I will be shocked.

savannahkat · 24-04-2014 6:04pm

That league final last year the atmosphere surrounding it and again the whole razamataz with the qualifier game between us drained both teams. I am not so sure it is even a good thing for either team to be contesting this final against each other. The innate rivalry has become some-what unhealthy. For that simple reason I would much prefer to face Clare than Tipp in this final. I would rate Tipp as the biggest challengers to Kilkenny this year with Galway ahead of both Clare, Dublin and Cork and would if we had to meet Tipp prefer if it were in September. As I said I think the whole Kilkenny/Tipp thing is becoming unhealthy with too high a percentage of both teams supporters losing sight of the axiom of respecting your opponent.

premierstone · 24-04-2014 6:09pm

savannahkat wrote: »

That league final last year the atmosphere surrounding it and again the whole razamataz with the qualifier game between us drained both teams. I am not so sure it is even a good thing for either team to be contesting this final against each other. The innate rivalry has become some-what unhealthy. For that simple reason I would much prefer to face Clare than Tipp in this final. I would rate Tipp as the biggest challengers to Kilkenny this year with Galway ahead of both Clare, Dublin and Cork and would if we had to meet Tipp prefer if it were in September. As I said I think the whole Kilkenny/Tipp thing is becoming unhealthy with too high a percentage of both teams supporters losing sight of the axiom of respecting your opponent.

Very true, my hope would be though that last years relative failure for both teams has brought a little perspective to both camps and also they both realise now that they can't simply worry about each other exclusively, there is realistically 7 or 8 teams all capable of beating each other, another factor aswell is that there are even more of the old faces that will be missing, alot of the players involved weren't really part of that rivarly that built up and as you allude to spilt over at times, both on and off the pitch.

TheBomber14 · 24-04-2014 7:02pm

premierstone wrote: »

Your analysis is as always spot on to be fair Bomber, agree 100% infact if KK don't win by at least a point a man I will be shocked.

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

premierstone · 24-04-2014 7:10pm

TheBomber14 wrote: »

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

I agreed with your verdict Im not sure what the issue is or how you are going to show me up when/if what we both predict comes through

What words exactly are you going to make me eat?

Grats · 24-04-2014 7:15pm

TheBomber14 wrote: »

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

And how will Waterford handle the "windy" Tipp forwards when ye meet in Munster?

Grats · 24-04-2014 7:23pm

savannahkat wrote: »

That league final last year the atmosphere surrounding it and again the whole razamataz with the qualifier game between us drained both teams. I am not so sure it is even a good thing for either team to be contesting this final against each other. The innate rivalry has become some-what unhealthy. For that simple reason I would much prefer to face Clare than Tipp in this final. I would rate Tipp as the biggest challengers to Kilkenny this year with Galway ahead of both Clare, Dublin and Cork and would if we had to meet Tipp prefer if it were in September. As I said I think the whole Kilkenny/Tipp thing is becoming unhealthy with too high a percentage of both teams supporters losing sight of the axiom of respecting your opponent.[/quote

Certain truth in what you say. Kilkenny were coming off a double All Ireland the previous year which extended the inter county year into October and then they had a bunch of club games to get through. Under the circumstances they did exceptionally well in winning the league. However that and the long hurling year previously took its toll, mainly through injuries. Can't explain Tipps failure last year though.

savannahkat · 24-04-2014 7:41pm

I wonder what the make up of the team for the final will be. I would expect at least 7 changes from the starting 15 we put out in the league series which was,
David Herity,
Willie Phelan, Kieran Joyce, Brian Kennedy,
Joey Holden, Brian Hogan, Tommy Walsh
Lester Ryan, Padraig Walsh,
Walter Walsh,Colin Fennelly, Henry Shefflin
Jonjo Farrell, Mark Kelly, TJ Reid.

Grats · 24-04-2014 9:39pm

savannahkat wrote: »

I wonder what the make up of the team for the final will be. I would expect at least 7 changes from the starting 15 we put out in the league series which was,
David Herity,
Willie Phelan, Kieran Joyce, Brian Kennedy,
Joey Holden, Brian Hogan, Tommy Walsh
Lester Ryan, Padraig Walsh,
Walter Walsh,Colin Fennelly, Henry Shefflin
Jonjo Farrell, Mark Kelly, TJ Reid.

When I started reading your post I wondered about SEVEN changes! But looking down through the team I could see while we had five of the forwards that started last Sun we only had three from 1 to 9. The jigsaw is almost complete, you can see the steady progress over the last few months. Great credit due to all concerned for reaching a league final while carrying out serious experimenting. Every player played their part by challenging for a starting position and putting pressure on each other.

I expect Tipp to win the final as our experimenting may not be finished just yet. That's not to suggest that the team won't try their best to retain the title.

pmy.murphy · 25-04-2014 2:30am

savannahkat wrote: »

HoganStand
Hoban expecting "big, big challenge"
24 April 2014
Pat Hoban expects Dublin to put it up to his Kilkenny minor hurling team this weekend.The Cats open the defence of their Leinster MHC crown against the Dubs in Nowlan Park on Saturday afternoon and Hoban knows it'll be a tricky tie: "We were lucky enough to see Dublin play Wexford in the championship this year," he told The Kilkenny People. "They have a big, strong, physical team, with many of last year's side still eligible. They'll be up there at the top challenging for honours."The reality of hurling in Dublin means that they are going to have a very good minor side every year from now on, which is good for the game.
"It'll be a big, big challenge for us, but if we can get things right on the field it'll take a good team to beat us.

That tells us a lot about our minor team. It must be a state secret who the panel are but I suppose we will be told tonight.

I dont think anyone on here gives a **** about our Minor team even though these lads are the future of our senior team as evidenced by the lack of response to your posts and my own previous posts but yes I agree with you there that Hoban has kept his cards close to his chest regarding who the panel are but there are a few still there from last year so hopefully they can give it a right good go this year and bring home a Minor All Ireland I think we are due. Dublin will be a good test for the young lads

realdanbreen · 25-04-2014 8:37am

TheBomber14 wrote: »

trying ur best to undermine me here now in front of the other posters. We will see who is laughing after the league final, after u have to eat ur words, right after the kk backs eat the windy tipp forwards.

Don't you worry too much about being undermined bomber, I don't believe it's possible to have a lower opinion of your knowledge of hurling than I already have.

Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

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