!! HL Maths 2015 - predictions, guesses, Q & A, discussion ...

Peg14 · 31-05-2015 6:23pm

Ag_science2015 wrote: »

What chapters can come up in Paper1 and what would be the most important chapters. is their any theroms that i could learn off

functions
differentiation
integration
algebra 1,2,3
sequences
financial maths
complex numbers
not sure - is area and volume paper 1?

Magnate · 31-05-2015 6:37pm

Peg14 wrote: »

not sure - is area and volume paper 1?

Yep it is,

Are trigonometric proofs? I can't remember.

Peregrine · 31-05-2015 6:55pm

Area and volume has been asked on both papers. As a rule of thumb, Strands 3, 4 and 5 are on Paper 1 and Strands 1 and 2 are on Paper 2 but AFAIK, it doesn't have to be like that. I remember last year when Financial Mathematics didn't come up on Paper 1, some students were told by teachers that it could still come up on Paper 2(it didn't come up at all). I could be wrong though.

Nc123 · 31-05-2015 10:26pm

Would anybody happen to have the marking scheme or answers for the 2015 DEB pre paper one? Thanks a million

BlueWolf16 · 31-05-2015 11:08pm

Is there anywhere I could find extra papers for Paper 1 to do? I have EDCO exam papers and have all of them done, and I think it would be more challenging to attempt a new one, rather than repeating something. ty

dalta5billion · 31-05-2015 11:11pm

From the 2015 Project Maths Syllabus

13 Syllabus for LCHL
13.1 Constructions
A knowledge of the constructions prescribed for JC-HL will be assumed,
and may be examined. In addition, students will study the constructions
prescribed for LC-OL, and construction 22.
13.2 Theorems and Proofs
Students will be expected to understand the meaning of the following terms
related to logic and deductive reasoning: Theorem, proof, axiom, corollary,
converse, implies, is equivalent to, if and only if, proof by
contradiction.
A knowledge of the Axioms, concepts, Theorems and Corollaries prescribed
for JC-HL will be assumed.
Students will study all the theorems and corollaries prescribed for LC-OL,
but will not, in general, be asked to reproduce their proofs in examination.
However, they may be asked to give proofs of the Theorems 11, 12, 13,
concerning ratios, which lay the proper foundation for the proof of Pythagoras
studied at JC, and for trigonometry.
They will be asked to solve geometrical problems (so-called “cuts”) and
write reasoned accounts of the solutions. These problems will be such that
they can be attacked using the given theory. The study of the propositions
may be a useful way to prepare for such examination questions.

"Maybe, if we're feeling particularly evil". :P

oktplz · 01-06-2015 11:11am

Are the mocks.ie papers any good? In terms of relevant to exams, or would I be better off with past papers.ie?

RoRo979 · 01-06-2015 11:23am

oktplz wrote: »

Are the mocks.ie papers any good? In terms of relevant to exams, or would I be better off with past papers.ie?

educate have free papes on their website

lc2015x · 01-06-2015 11:55am

Could someone please tell me exactly what proofs and theroms are coming up only on paper 1? Going to spend the day just revising them, thought I'd just get them out of the way fast!
Thanks a million!

RoRo979 · 01-06-2015 12:10pm

lc2015x wrote: »

Could someone please tell me exactly what proofs and theroms are coming up only on paper 1? Going to spend the day just revising them, thought I'd just get them out of the way fast!
Thanks a million!

amortisation, induction, sequences and series ones( to infinity i think), de moivres proof. root 2 + 3. Think thats it

Kremin · 01-06-2015 12:53pm

dalta5billion wrote: »

From the 2015 Project Maths Syllabus

"Maybe, if we're feeling particularly evil". :P

Is that just for OL or what?

So, we need to be able to physically write the proof for 11,12,13 but only need to know how to use the other theorems? Can anyone clarify this before I only learn these three

!.

Magnate · 01-06-2015 12:54pm

Maths geniuses, I stumbled across this and it's been annoying me as I can't figure out how you calculate it, even though I'm sure it's really simple.

Tweej wrote: »

If you study 1 poet you have a 50% chance, 2 poets 79%, 3 poets 91%, 4 poets 98.4%, 5 poets 100%.

I know one poet would be 1/8 x 4 chances = 50%, but I can't figure out the rest, unless those percentages are wrong in the first place.

sdio · 01-06-2015 1:14pm

Think about it this way:

For 2 poets, either at least of the two poets will come up, or all of the six poets you didn't do will come up.

chance for 2 poets = 1 - chance that six poets you didn't do come up = 1 - (6/8)(5/7)(4/6)(3/5) = 79

Magnate · 01-06-2015 1:15pm

sdio wrote: »

Think about it this way:

For 2 poets, either at least of the two poets will come up, or all of the six poets you didn't do will come up.

chance for 2 poets = 1 - chance that six poets you didn't do come up = 1 - (6/8)(5/7)(4/6)(3/5) = 79

Thanks a million, I had a pretty bad mental block there. :P

Peregrine · 01-06-2015 1:16pm

You can also do them as combinations. Total possible combinations minus combinations where your poet doesn't come up.

And of course, in reality, your chances will be wildly different.

Magnate · 01-06-2015 1:21pm

Nim wrote: »

You can also do them as comibations. Total possible combinations minus combinations where your poet doesn't come up.

And of course, in reality, your chances will be wildly different.

Murphy's law :P

pa limerick · 01-06-2015 4:04pm

Hey, I'm really starting to worry and was wondering what I should spend my remaining time studying for both papers?

BlueWolf16 · 01-06-2015 4:09pm

pa limerick wrote: »

Hey, I'm really starting to worry and was wondering what I should spend my remaining time studying for both papers?

In my opinion, only do paper 1 from now on. Forget about paper 2 until Friday when you're back from P1 exam. You'll have the whole weekend to study for it, no point in doing P2 now, it will only confuse you.

As for doing what - Exam papers. Go do all the questions with the book open/closed, try to focus on how certain questions are asked and what you need to do. Don't look at solutions unless you're stuck for more than 5 min. Sounds cheesy, but stay confident, that's really important. There's still quite a bit of time, you'll get there.

DarraghF197 · 01-06-2015 4:40pm

Anyone else find the Educate sample papers really hard? I briskly went through all the Sec ones, but now I'm just getting disheartened by these sample papers! Feel like going back to the book lol

lostatsea · 01-06-2015 5:47pm

DarraghF197 wrote: »

Anyone else find the Educate sample papers really hard? I briskly went through all the Sec ones, but now I'm just getting disheartened by these sample papers! Feel like going back to the book lol

Why are you only starting on the sample papers now? Were you not doing them all year?

Kremin · 01-06-2015 5:52pm

lostatsea wrote: »

Why are you only starting on the sample papers now? Were you not doing them all year?

Maybe he did the sec past exam papers and then only bought the educate ones recently?
Most people in my higher level class don't even know the educate exam papers exist and solely use the past exam papers...
Also, he referenced the fact that he might just go back to the book, maybe that was his primary source of study, not everyone uses exam papers.

DarraghF197 · 01-06-2015 6:04pm

Kremin wrote: »

Maybe he did the sec past exam papers and then only bought the educate ones recently?
Most people in my higher level class don't even know the educate exam papers exist and solely use the past exam papers...
Also, he referenced the fact that he might just go back to the book, maybe that was his primary source of study, not everyone uses exam papers.

Lol thank you Kremin!

I had them for a long while, did all the Sec ones. As I said before, I got really complacent with maths for all of the sixth year and haven't put much time into it. Every now and then one of these sample questions throws up a random question and I don't know how to approach it. Like one of them was:

Prove that if three numbers are consecutive terms of a geometric sequence, then their logs are consecutive terms of an arithmetic sequence.

I might try that one again later in today before looking at the marking schemes, and maybe my mind would be less blank. But I've never came across the likes in the SEC's.

BlueWolf16 · 01-06-2015 6:49pm

Guys, in the "infinite geometric series" question, eg. 2012, write 5.2121212121... as a geometric series.. I got everything right, (ie. 7/33) but at the end -

will I be faulted for writing down 5 + (7/33) instead of 5(7/33) ? The marking scheme first says 5 + (a/1-r), but then the final answer has no plus sign.. or is that just a formatting mistake?

Kremin · 01-06-2015 6:51pm

DarraghF197 wrote: »

Lol thank you Kremin!

I had them for a long while, did all the Sec ones. As I said before, I got really complacent with maths for all of the sixth year and haven't put much time into it. Every now and then one of these sample questions throws up a random question and I don't know how to approach it. Like one of them was:

Prove that if three numbers are consecutive terms of a geometric sequence, then their logs are consecutive terms of an arithmetic sequence.

I might try that one again later in today before looking at the marking schemes, and maybe my mind would be less blank. But I've never came across the likes in the SEC's.

Just thinking about that question

Say we have three consecutive terms, T1, T2, T3..
The fact they are geometric means they can be written as..
T1r^0, T1r, T1r^2

Taking a log of each term:
LogT1r^0 is = LogT1x1=
LogT1r^1= LogT1xLogr
Logt1r^2= LogT1rxLogr^2= LogT1x2Logr

common difference is Logr?

pa limerick · 01-06-2015 6:53pm

BlueWolf16 wrote: »

In my opinion, only do paper 1 from now on. Forget about paper 2 until Friday when you're back from P1 exam. You'll have the whole weekend to study for it, no point in doing P2 now, it will only confuse you.

As for doing what - Exam papers. Go do all the questions with the book open/closed, try to focus on how certain questions are asked and what you need to do. Don't look at solutions unless you're stuck for more than 5 min. Sounds cheesy, but stay confident, that's really important. There's still quite a bit of time, you'll get there.

What topics should I cover? For paper 1 integration and differentiation (including average value formula), logs and indices, algebra, complex numbers, financial maths, functions, sequences and series is. That all for paper 1?

BlueWolf16 · 01-06-2015 7:08pm

pa limerick wrote: »

What topics should I cover? For paper 1 integration and differentiation (including average value formula), logs and indices, algebra, complex numbers, financial maths, functions, sequences and series is. That all for paper 1?

Pretty much.. also inequalities, binomial theorem and proofs. There was a list I think in Page 6 of the most likely proofs.

DarraghF197 · 01-06-2015 7:40pm

Kremin wrote: »

Just thinking about that question

Say we have three consecutive terms, T1, T2, T3..
The fact they are geometric means they can be written as..
T1r^0, T1r, T1r^2

Taking a log of each term:
LogT1r^0 is = LogT1x1=
LogT1r^1= LogT1xLogr
Logt1r^2= LogT1rxLogr^2= LogT1x2Logr

common difference is Logr?

I think that's the answer yes!

The next part asks for the sum of the arithmetic sequence and the back of the book has log(r) as 'd'.

I see where I went wrong in it!

I tried prove it was arithmetic by letting the difference between the second and first equal the difference between the third and second. Problem was that I did it the wrong way around, like

Log[T1]-log[T1r] = log[T1r]-log[T1r*2]

Whereas it should have been, well, multiply everything by (-1) for the proper answer (too little patience to write all that down again!)

Kremin · 01-06-2015 8:49pm

DarraghF197 wrote: »

I think that's the answer yes! The next part asks for the sum of the arithmetic sequence and the back of the book has log(r) as 'd'.

I see where I went wrong in it!

I tried prove it was arithmetic by letting the difference between the second and first equal the difference between the third and second. Problem was that I did it the wrong way around, like

Log[T1]-log[T1r] = log[T1r]-log[T1r*2]

Whereas it should have been, well, multiply everything by (-1) for the proper answer (too little patience to write all that down again!)

Some sequence questions are crazy hard.. just thinking about it.. anyone got a solution to this one:
From the sum to infinity of a geometric series, find the least number of terms from the sequence, 108,36,12 that must be added so that the sum differs from the sum to infinity by less than .05

I thought I was doing it right up until i got a negative n.,..

sdio · 01-06-2015 8:58pm

Kremin wrote: »

Some sequence questions are crazy hard.. just thinking about it.. anyone got a solution to this one:
From the sum to infinity of a geometric series, find the least number of terms from the sequence, 108,36,12 that must be added so that the sum differs from the sum to infinity by less than .05

I thought I was doing it right up until i got a negative n.,..

I think you just work out sum to infinity S = a/(1-r), then minus 0.05, then put that equal to a(1-r^n)/(1-r) and round the answer to nearest whole number.

Peg14 · 01-06-2015 9:09pm

i know I'm just really lazy but do we have to know proof by induction by inequalities

DarraghF197 · 01-06-2015 9:20pm

Kremin wrote: »

Some sequence questions are crazy hard.. just thinking about it.. anyone got a solution to this one:
From the sum to infinity of a geometric series, find the least number of terms from the sequence, 108,36,12 that must be added so that the sum differs from the sum to infinity by less than .05

I thought I was doing it right up until i got a negative n.,..

Yeah there's two in my book that are really hard. I think one of them I still haven't figured out. I might look over them just for old time's sake!

I think I actually did that question a few days ago, sdio has the right answer above, beat me to it!!

Magnate · 01-06-2015 9:33pm

What are we all aiming for in maths overall may I ask?

Kremin · 01-06-2015 9:43pm

Magnate wrote: »

What are we all aiming for in maths overall may I ask?

Personally, an A1 or A2.. got 70% in debs mock (I think, can't really remember) and 89% in the second mock we did which was one of the educate exam papers... hopefully can just push it to an A1 on the day!

Troxck · 01-06-2015 11:56pm

Magnate wrote: »

What are we all aiming for in maths overall may I ask?

A D3... At the start of the year I felt I could have aimed for a high C, even a B3 but I have lost all confidence. I am so close to dropping to pass on the day now.

I told my teacher about two weeks ago that I was considering dropping down and he didn't really fill me with confidence that I could even pass HL. I am decent at Maths, could always do the class work and get the homework out but once I do a Maths test, I do terribly.

Not sure what to do now

lc2015x · 02-06-2015 12:04am

You're the exact same as me!! I'm aiming for a D3 too..I'll be over the moon if I get D2.. In my mocks I was a percent off D3

The only way I hung in was the fact that half of the class failed their exam too, it reassured me for a while.. But now I'm actually scared if I fail in the real.. I've practiced so many questions but when it comes to a mock exam or a test Idk what happens! I always have my work done too, but in a test or exam, I always think I'd get a high grade & the opposite happens

I'm having second chances on HLM too..my teacher told me to stick to HL & just practice over and over again.. But he said that to a girl who got worse than me.. He said it to nearly everyone really

I'm in a state of confusion myself..

Btw does anyone know is it true if you fail maths you fail the whole leaving cert??

Troxck wrote: »

A D3... At the start of the year I felt I could have aimed for a high C, even a B3 but I have lost all confidence. I am so close to dropping to pass on the day now.

I told my teacher about two weeks ago that I was considering dropping down and he didn't really fill me with confidence that I could even pass HL. I am decent at Maths, could always do the class work and get the homework out but once I do a Maths test, I do terribly.

Not sure what to do now

RingoIRL · 02-06-2015 12:27am

Well now I'm panicking.

I got a C3 last year (Im a repeat) and pretty much the same in my mock.

My teacher is pretty abysmal so i spent a long time studying the Less Stress books, and have practiced probably 5 or so exam papers in Paper 1.

I will be able to cover Probability, Statistics, the Line and the Circle over the weekend. But I only vaguely know the theorems and constructions. What do you guys suggest i revise?

Hoping for a C3 or C2 again.

lc2015x wrote: »

You're the exact same as me!! I'm aiming for a D3 too..I'll be over the moon if I get D2.. In my mocks I was a percent off D3 The only way I hung in was the fact that half of the class failed their exam too, it reassured me for a while.. But now I'm actually scared if I fail in the real.. I've practiced so many questions but when it comes to a mock exam or a test Idk what happens! I always have my work done too, but in a test or exam, I always think I'd get a high grade & the opposite happens I'm having second chances on HLM too..my teacher told me to stick to HL & just practice over and over again.. But he said that to a girl who got worse than me.. He said it to nearly everyone really I'm in a state of confusion myself..

Btw does anyone know is it true if you fail maths you fail the whole leaving cert??

Yes thats true.

Magnate · 02-06-2015 1:10am

RingoIRL wrote: »

Yes thats true.

No. There's no such thing as failing the leaving cert. You either get the college place you want or you don't.

If a pass in maths is a matriculation requirement for your course and you fail then you may need to check if your college offers a maths entrance exam. For some courses this is an option. If you sit this and pass you can still get into your course.

However if a pass in maths is not matriculation requirement for your course and you get enough points then you get a place, simple.

Kremin · 02-06-2015 1:52am

Troxck wrote: »

A D3... At the start of the year I felt I could have aimed for a high C, even a B3 but I have lost all confidence. I am so close to dropping to pass on the day now.

I told my teacher about two weeks ago that I was considering dropping down and he didn't really fill me with confidence that I could even pass HL. I am decent at Maths, could always do the class work and get the homework out but once I do a Maths test, I do terribly.

Not sure what to do now

All of my teachers have said never drop any subject on the day of the exam, you won't have practiced any questions and will likely do a lot worse than you deserve/

Troxck · 02-06-2015 9:06am

Kremin wrote: »

All of my teachers have said never drop any subject on the day of the exam, you won't have practiced any questions and will likely do a lot worse than you deserve/

I know, but the fear of failing HL is much greater than doing badly at OL...

Bah_Humbug · 02-06-2015 10:05am

I just realised that in our mock we were asked to prove that an angle from the centre of a circle on an arc is twice the size of another angle on a point of the circle standing on the same arc. Does this mean we have to know theorems other than 11, 12, 13? *freaks out*

Kremin · 02-06-2015 10:12am

Bah_Humbug wrote: »

I just realised that in our mock we were asked to prove that an angle from the centre of a circle on an arc is twice the size of another angle on a point of the circle standing on the same arc. Does this mean we have to know theorems other than 11, 12, 13? *freaks out*

You have to be able to use/apply them, yes.

OMGeary · 02-06-2015 11:27am

What happens if you ask for a booklet and answer the whole paper on A4 sheets and not the paper

DarraghF197 · 02-06-2015 11:45am

OMGeary wrote: »

What happens if you ask for a booklet and answer the whole paper on A4 sheets and not the paper

I'd much prefer that! The small boxes drive me insane at times lol. I'd say you would be able to. Considering you can probably ask for more paper and write on extra sheets, I'd imagine it would be possible to do all work on sheets.

Peregrine · 02-06-2015 11:49am

Just a word of advice, it's not that important but still, don't forget to write down your calculator's make and model on the booklet.

lc2015x · 02-06-2015 12:35pm

Just want to be sure ..is the statistics definitions & area, volume asked in paper 1 or paper 2??

RoRo979 · 02-06-2015 12:38pm

lc2015x wrote: »

Just want to be sure ..is the statistics definitions & area, volume asked in paper 1 or paper 2??

2, leave i tiil weekend

Troxck · 02-06-2015 12:46pm

OMGeary wrote: »

What happens if you ask for a booklet and answer the whole paper on A4 sheets and not the paper

Our teacher advised to do all work into the booklets and then out your "final" version in to the actual exam booklet. Obviously make sure to label every question clearly for the examiner

skippy1977 · 02-06-2015 12:52pm

lc2015x wrote: »

Just want to be sure ..is the statistics definitions & area, volume asked in paper 1 or paper 2??

Area and Volume can be asked on either Paper...if anything it is more likely to appear as a part of a question on Paper 1.
Check out the:
2012 Paper 1 Q7 - all about cylinders
2012 Paper 1 Q8 - nets and cones
2013 Paper 1 Q6 - trapezoidal rule to find area
2014 Sample Paper 1 Q7 - volume of cuboid

also...a statistics definition has been asked before on Paper 1 (definition of discrete and continuous), in general though Statistics is a Paper 2 topic.

RoRo979 · 02-06-2015 3:21pm

skippy1977 wrote: »

Area and Volume can be asked on either Paper...if anything it is more likely to appear as a part of a question on Paper 1.
Check out the:
2012 Paper 1 Q7 - all about cylinders
2012 Paper 1 Q8 - nets and cones
2013 Paper 1 Q6 - trapezoidal rule to find area
2014 Sample Paper 1 Q7 - volume of cuboid

also...a statistics definition has been asked before on Paper 1 (definition of discrete and continuous), in general though Statistics is a Paper 2 topic.

technically any topic can appear on any part that is true. However i believe that area and volume would only possible appear on differentiation(rates of change) or integration(comparing finding the area under a curve to trapezodial rule). Much higher chance of seeing it on trig/geometry

skippy1977 · 02-06-2015 3:53pm

RoRo979 wrote: »

technically any topic can appear on any part that is true. However i believe that area and volume would only possible appear on differentiation(rates of change) or integration(comparing finding the area under a curve to trapezodial rule). Much higher chance of seeing it on trig/geometry

I have to say I disagree. I obviously have no idea where anything will be but I'm not sure what you are basing the 'much higher' chance on, I've done an analysis on all the past papers and I'm not sure 'volume' has been asked in any Project Maths Paper 2, it has been mentioned once in a sample paper. Area has been asked on Paper 2 in Trigonometry but specific to the Trigonometry formulas of areas of triangles and sectors and not really what would be covered in a revision of the area and volume topics.

What if it does come up as part of an integration/ differentiation question. It will be too late. I would strongly advise anyone who is studying for Paper 1 to look at Area and Volume.

Evidence for:
2014 Sample Paper 1 - Dimensions of a box given 2D shape, volume of a box
2014 Sample Paper 1 - volume of a sphere, surface area of a sphere
2013 Paper 1 - Trapezoidal Rule to find area (area and volume topic)
2013 Paper 1 - volume of a sphere
2012 - volume of a cylinder, area of a circle
2012 - net of a cone, volume of a cone, area of a sector

Of course the above is linked to other sections such as calculus but I cannot see the rational in leaving it until Saturday to look over this stuff.
Both DEB and Examcraft had significant area and volume sections to their Paper 1's.

!! HL Maths 2015 - predictions, guesses, Q & A, discussion ...

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