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2014 Cups & Shields
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SaveOurLyric wrote: »I do think it harsh also, and thats why it bugs me. And there are far more honest, players, teams, and clubs that do not field bandit teams, than ones that do. But the honest ones bomb out in the qualifiers or first rounds.
I am tarring all the semi-finalist with the same brush though. You simply cannot get their with legitimate handicaps. And I am speaking from direct knowledge of golfers I know and play with, and the reprehensible behaviour of my own club in this regard. The pennants over the bar embarrass me.
Definitely agree this is the case, and I don't doubt that events like PP are almost always won by teams with plenty of handicap "rogues". Down through the years, there's often been remarks about certain winning teams, not all mind you, but every few years a team gets mentioned. I think there was a Barton winning team about 10/12 years ago that was regarded as being iffy and I can think of another from about 5 years prior to that one.
Interclub has always attracted the best players in their respective categories. Why do managers pick player X over player Y when they're both the same handicap (PP team building aside
) ? I know this is in theory against the system, but in reality you can have two players off the same handicap and one is clearly a better player than the other, doesn't necessarily make him a bandit. Perhaps player X can be depended upon to play to his handicap under pressure in a match, whereas player Y usually caves in, it doesn't make X a bandit IMHO.
We haven't won a worthwhile pennant in years, its a constant discussion whether other teams are all rogues or our guys are handicapped too tightly. To be honest I've mostly had the view that we're picking lads who can't play to their handicaps in a million years, or can't play to it away from home. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.0 -
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Playing well is the 2 words im sure yoir thinkingThat's why I gave a little
Onto the next item....
You do know that those stats (from 2 months ago) would suggest that you are playing off a higher handicap than you should be
Assuming a standard layout
4 Par 3's @ 3.3 = 1.2 over
10 Par 4's @ 4.5 = 5 over
4 Par 5's @ 5.1 = 0.4 over
You're averaging 6.6 over there...playing off a HC off 10
There's only one word for that in my book.0 -
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SaveOurLyric wrote: »If you can play to your handicap and winning most matches, you are a bandit.
So the fact that I can play to 9 makes me a bandit, would like to know how you came to that conclusion
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FixdePitchmark wrote: »Don't know mafc.
I genuinely don't know how this works.
A lad comes on defending it. We ask a few questions . Ciarana accepts he is a six or less (yes?)
Then he says he is going again next year.
If ("I") was running things a lad would have to play 10 + qualifying comps in last .
so I'm breaking me balls off 7. You want me to be happy facing a player with a lag of 4 in his handicap ?
Have played enough golf with him and he's no 6 0 -
Have played enough golf with him and he's no 6
Depends how or what you (or the team selector) views a 6 HC'er to be I suppose.
I'll leave ye off now lads, good luck defending your crown next year IF the cuts don't come now for ye.
Great Shooting mafc, you had me fooled.
Your teammate was never as subtle though!
Bit of an IN joke was this?Head was a little sore today after a few too many pints last night so decided to head out for a game to clear it. Absolute beautiful Spring day & perfect for golf.
Started off a bit ropey & had 3 bogey's on the first 4 holes, rallied a bit after that or sobered up and finished +4 for front 9.
Got my game going and finished -2 for back 9.
Gross 73 (+2)
10 pars
3 birdies
5 bogey's
25 puttsMafc what u playing off looks like your a bit of a bandit
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=893951970 -
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So the fact that I can play to 9 makes me a bandit, would like to know how you came to that conclusion
I didnt come to that conclusion. I said "If you can play to your handicap and winning most matches, you are a bandit."
If you include yourself in the group who can play to your handicap and win most matches, then however, I would. But you didnt say that you do. So I dont.0 -
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From the what ??:)
Well then (slightly tongue in cheek) everyone is a bandit, because pretty much everyone plays better in a casual or practice game than they do in competition. So if everyone is a bandit all we're arguing about is degrees of banditry......
Must despatch a missive to the lexicographers ! Definiton not clear enough !
Nothing to do with playing performance in casual versus competitive rounds.
And I think the definition is pretty close to good:
Handicaps are determined by performance in competitive rounds so casual games do not enter the issue.
What puts you into the bandit category is any attempt to manipulate your handicap whether done by
- deciding to enter or not a competition because of your form, the weather, the type of event itself, or concern that you might be cut for a minor competition with loot or glory not worth being cut for, not returning cards on a frequent enough basis for your handicap to represent your playing form, or not entering comps 'in case' you are cut and would be outside a team comp qualification the following year
- not letting your scores represent without interference your playing level on the day : i.e. 'pulling' on the last couple of holes being the most extreme example
- not returning your card if it will trigger an even minor cut, because you reckon its not good enough to win or will only be an also run0 -
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SaveOurLyric wrote: »
Must despatch a missive to the lexicographers ! Definiton not clear enough !
Nothing to do with playing performance in casual versus competitive rounds.
And I think the definition is pretty close to good:
Handicaps are determined by performance in competitive rounds so casual games do not enter the issue.
What puts you into the bandit category is any attempt to manipulate your handicap whether done by
- deciding to enter or not a competition because of your form, the weather, the type of event itself, or concern that you might be cut for a minor competition with loot or glory not worth being cut for, not returning cards on a frequent enough basis for your handicap to represent your playing form, or not entering comps 'in case' you are cut and would be outside a team comp qualification the following year
- not letting your scores represent without interference your playing level on the day : i.e. 'pulling' on the last couple of holes being the most extreme example
- not returning your card if it will trigger an even minor cut, because you reckon its not good enough to win or will only be an also run
Totally agree with all that expect the bolded part. Can't see how not playing, say for the club, because I'm playing rubbish makes me a bandit. Same for deciding not to play because it's pi$$ing rain and blowing a hooley.
The "pulling" argument I'm slightly wary of. It comes down to intent obviously, so only the player will know for sure but passing judgement on someone for pulling is iffy. The best player in the world took 4 putts on a green last night, if he can do that, surely a 15 handicapper can too, at the most inopportune time.
I think a simpler definition of a bandit is someone who is carrying a few shots and can produce the good scores when required. I suspect a lot fewer people would be classed as bandits using this criteria, as people rarely play to others' expectations.0 -
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