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Lack of new routes at Cork airport

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭beer enigma


    Frostybrew wrote: »
    IIRC the old terminal is too close to the runway to be used as a passenger terminal, under current international aviation rules. It's part of the reason that the new terminal was constructed in the first place. That and the fact that it was inadequate to cater for the level of passenger numbers.

    I remember the regulation being flagged by an article in the Examiner several years ago.


    Good memory !

    I remember when it came out but believe it was never fully enacted. Personally I think Cork will be a completely different animal in a few years time as there are lots of plans. Subsidising Ryanair would be a mistake as once you go low there's no coming back and as good as ryanair are at bringing in passengers, they are equally as good switching airports for a better deal.

    I don't see the government ever writing off the debt, but I do see investment in a new building where the old terminal sits, potential for low cost routes to the states (this will happen in DUB this year with non CBP so makes great sense for Cork) and within 5 years a Ryanair hub where cargo sits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Personally, any talk of T/A is non-sensicle. Getting a few euro routes are far more valuble to any airport. Try get GermanWings and TAP Portugal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭beer enigma


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Personally, any talk of T/A is non-sensicle. Getting a few euro routes are far more valuble to any airport. Try get GermanWings and TAP Portugal.


    By T/A I presume you mean transatlantic - if so, why are Dub putting so much credence behind Norweigan low cost (non pre cleared) to New York this summer.......even some of the Lingus flights to Washington for 2015 don't qualify for CBP.

    if a carrier offered low cost non cleared flights to New York or Boston via 737 or 757, both of which Cork can handle, do you not think there would be interest

    Germanwings and TAP would be great, but they are demanding the same terms as Ryanair and that would leave the airport vulnerable should they decide to pull out at any stage. If you saw what one of the above mentioned are trying to squeeze out of Shannon at the moment, you'd be glad Cork hasn't capitulated to the pricing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Andip wrote: »
    By T/A I presume you mean transatlantic - if so, why are Dub putting so much credence behind Norweigan low cost (non pre cleared) to New York this summer.......even some of the Lingus flights to Washington for 2015 don't qualify for CBP.
    Im unsure of what you meant there.
    if a carrier offered low cost non cleared flights to New York or Boston via 737 or 757, both of which Cork can handle, do you not think there would be interest

    There would. The problem being that there isn't true Low-cost T/A (Transatlantic) flights yet. Norwegians lowest fare from London Gatwick is €150. That doesnt include inflight meals. Last year I found SNN-JFK-SNN on the Aer Lingus website for €374, or €187 each way. This includes inflight meals and preclearence.

    If anyone started low cost T/A flights from cork, it would be met with Fierce competition from Dublin and Aer Lingus.


    My point is though, it is worth all the trouble of finding a Transatlantic operator for Cork, when you could be looking for more European routes.

    Also- another point. Belfast has 1 flight to New York with United and thats not even year-round. It has no other Transatlantic routes besides the odd Orlando or Las Vegas holiday route. If Belfast can't get a year round transatlantic route, would things be similar if not worse for Cork?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Andip wrote: »
    By T/A I presume you mean transatlantic - if so, why are Dub putting so much credence behind Norweigan low cost (non pre cleared) to New York this summer.......even some of the Lingus flights to Washington for 2015 don't qualify for CBP.

    .

    Don't think Norwegian are flying to JFK ex DUB- do you mean the WowAir flights via Iceland?

    I could certainly see ORK-JFK happening seasonally at least. Also think Westjet would be a serious contender....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    You can fly JFK with Norwegian,,, via Oslo, you'd nearly walk there quicker.:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    Andip wrote: »
    By T/A I presume you mean transatlantic - if so, why are Dub putting so much credence behind Norweigan low cost (non pre cleared) to New York this summer.......even some of the Lingus flights to Washington for 2015 don't qualify for CBP.

    if a carrier offered low cost non cleared flights to New York or Boston via 737 or 757, both of which Cork can handle, do you not think there would be interest

    Germanwings and TAP would be great, but they are demanding the same terms as Ryanair and that would leave the airport vulnerable should they decide to pull out at any stage. If you saw what one of the above mentioned are trying to squeeze out of Shannon at the moment, you'd be glad Cork hasn't capitulated to the pricing.

    By that do you mean the SNN gets nothing from Ryanair?

    Day in day out at Cork airport there are significant gaps throughout the day where absolutely nothing is happening there. Its like a graveyard,surely charging Ryanair Germanwings, Air Berlin etc. etc. small fees will increase routes and consumer satisfaction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭beer enigma


    Nemanrio wrote: »
    By that do you mean the SNN gets nothing from Ryanair?

    Day in day out at Cork airport there are significant gaps throughout the day where absolutely nothing is happening there. Its like a graveyard,surely charging Ryanair Germanwings, Air Berlin etc. etc. small fees will increase routes and consumer satisfaction.

    Shannon agreed a deal with Ryanair which brought traffic but not huge income, ok shannon do get passengers and revenue through shopping and food/beveridge sales, but not a vast amount from the airline. Shannon could afford do do it as they didn't have to service debt, but now Ryanair are in a position where Shannon are so dependent on them that Ryanair are calling the shots. If Shannon don't agree with the new pricing, they know Ryanair could pull routes, could be great news for Cork, but no airport can afford such a loss. If Cork slash fees just to get an airline in, they too will be at similar risk except they have a vast debt to service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    Andip wrote: »
    Shannon agreed a deal with Ryanair which brought traffic but not huge income, ok shannon do get passengers and revenue through shopping and food/beveridge sales, but not a vast amount from the airline. Shannon could afford do do it as they didn't have to service debt, but now Ryanair are in a position where Shannon are so dependent on them that Ryanair are calling the shots. If Shannon don't agree with the new pricing, they know Ryanair could pull routes, could be great news for Cork, but no airport can afford such a loss. If Cork slash fees just to get an airline in, they too will be at similar risk except they have a vast debt to service.

    So Cork are receving nothing no, but if there was another airline to come in with new routes at least they would get something.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Nemanrio wrote: »
    So Cork are receving nothing no, but if there was another airline to come in with new routes at least they would get something.
    Lads there are only a limited ammount of people that actually fly, no point of having airlines with routes and no one to fly on them. I can only fly once this year and I'm flying from Cork. I consider myself one of the lucky ones in that I can do it. As for SNN there are even longer periods with nothing happening as well. Cork is still doing more passengers than SNN, you'd swear Cork was about to close the way people are going on about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Pitcairn


    roundymac wrote: »
    My big problem is with these TDs going on about giving FR the use of the old terminal. MOL won't deny it's a non runner, he'll milk it for all it's worth while those eejets fall all over him.

    Exactly. People have been talking for far too long about the old terminal. On one occasion Michael O'Leary said he'd take the old terminal but this was during his regular rants against the money paid for the new terminal when he was dressing up as a bishop and driving a tank for free publicity. It was just another stunt.
    If a fully refurbished and kitted out old terminal building was offered to Ryanair they would never take it over. They are an airline, they don't operate terminals.

    Talk of Ryanair and the old terminal needs to be put permanently to bed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭Masala


    Pitcairn wrote: »
    Exactly. People have been talking for far too long about the old terminal. On one occasion Michael O'Leary said he'd take the old terminal but this was during his regular rants against the money paid for the new terminal when he was dressing up as a bishop and driving a tank for free publicity. It was just another stunt.
    If a fully refurbished and kitted out old terminal building was offered to Ryanair they would never take it over. They are an airline, they don't operate terminals.

    Talk of Ryanair and the old terminal needs to be put permanently to bed.

    Well said... The only interest Ryanair have in Cork at the moment is to break up the DAA charges via the back door. It is a means to an end...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    IN THE MATTER OF
    THE COMPANIES ACTS 1963-2013
    AND IN THE MATTER OF
    CORK AIRPORT AUTHORITY PLC
    (In Voluntary Liquidation)
    At an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Members of the
    above named Company duly convened and held on 12 January
    2015 the following Special Resolution was duly passed:
    ‘‘That the Company be wound up Voluntarily as a
    Members’ Voluntary Winding-Up and that Mr. Jim
    Hamilton of BDO, be and is hereby appointed Liquidator
    of the Company for the purpose of such winding up and
    that the Liquidator be and is hereby authorised, in
    accordance with the Memorandum and Articles of
    Association of the Company, to distribute the whole or part
    of the assets of the Company amongst the Members in
    specie’’.
    Dated: 20/01/2015.
    JIM HAMILTON,
    Liquidator

    Looks like the DAA will have a hold on the airport for the forseeable future anyways!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭beer enigma


    Looks like the DAA will have a hold on the airport for the forseeable future anyways!

    Wouldn't worry too much about that as the CAA was an odd body anyway with board members having conflict of interest all over the shop. DAA set up the CADC Cork Airport Development Council which is responsible for some of the new routes. There is provision in the bill to re incorporate the CAA in the event that it's separated from DAA at a later date.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    May I ask does anybody know why Rome-Fiumicino has appeared in Ryanairs search engine for Cork?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    Not there for me


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Not there for me

    Okay just pick a flight to Stansted on a random day, and then click the yellow edit on the top of the page and look in that menu.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    ah yeah I see it now. Interesting, probably a glitch?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Probably. Could it mean something though?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    This has happened before with other routes, could be a glitch or it could be FR using cookies to see how many people click on it to get an idea of ammont of interest. maybe I'm watching too many spy films.:rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    roundymac wrote: »
    Lads there are only a limited ammount of people that actually fly, no point of having airlines with routes and no one to fly on them. I can only fly once this year and I'm flying from Cork. I consider myself one of the lucky ones in that I can do it. As for SNN there are even longer periods with nothing happening as well. Cork is still doing more passengers than SNN, you'd swear Cork was about to close the way people are going on about it.

    Probably due to that fact that there are a lack of destinations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Nemanrio wrote: »
    Probably due to that fact that there are a lack of destinations.

    Thats not any bit contradictory to his/hee next remark.

    Theres a lack of routes, I agree, but there's not an amazing untapped market at cork either.

    In a few years, I can see Cork having a sustainable 3ish million passengers with small growth if the airport has a good strategy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Thats not any bit contradictory to his/hee next remark.

    Theres a lack of routes, I agree, but there's not an amazing untapped market at cork either.

    In a few years, I can see Cork having a sustainable 3ish million passengers with small growth if the airport has a good strategy.

    Never stated that there is an amazing untapped market but jesus the ways things are its shambolic. The airport is a ghost town. Theres no getting away from it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Pitcairn


    Not sure if there is anything interesting in the latest IAA statistics. Cork still losing flights compared to 12 months ago.
    However we have retaken Shannon in overall flight number.
    Shannon overtook us last April but they seem to have suffered a significant fall in February compared to February 2014.

    lF6YIhY.jpg

    https://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=117&n=255


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Read over on pprune that the FR SNN to eastern europe routes are doing ok but the Munich route and I think it's Lanzarote are doing very poorly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    roundymac wrote: »
    Read over on pprune that the FR SNN to eastern europe routes are doing ok but the Munich route and I think it's Lanzarote are doing very poorly.

    Its Paris Beavais thats the main concern, thats going down to 2xPW next winter. Loads are 50% and less. Munich is probably doing bad as well. Kaunas and the polish routes are doing very well, so is Berlin.

    AFAIK lanzarote is doing well too, thats being increased to 2xPW this summer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Pitcairn wrote: »
    Not sure if there is anything interesting in the latest IAA statistics. Cork still losing flights compared to 12 months ago.
    However we have retaken Shannon in overall flight number.
    Shannon overtook us last April but they seem to have suffered a significant fall in February compared to February 2014.

    lF6YIhY.jpg

    https://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=117&n=255

    Shannon's fall is due to the withdrawal of Aer Lingus Regional.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    Does the Shannon figures include the American troop carriers on stop over and also the BA London City to JFK service?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    kub wrote: »
    Does the Shannon figures include the American troop carriers on stop over and also the BA London City to JFK service?

    Of course. Every airport counts all passengers that go through there. Keep in mind though these figures are relatively small. There is rarely more than 1 troop service a week. The BA London City-JFK service has 32 seats, of which are often not even half full.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Rumors of 2 new routes. Ryanair - Paris Beauvais and a UK route.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Hope it stays a rumour, last thing we now need is two airlines compeating on similer routes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    I'd say Ryanair would love to kick EIR in the shins at cork. Although flying to Beauvais is not worth competition, it would get a few numbers with the low fares considering few know where Beauvais really is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    roundymac wrote: »
    Read over on pprune that the FR SNN to eastern europe routes are doing ok but the Munich route and I think it's Lanzarote are doing very poorly.

    Indeed Memmingen/Munich West only did well for July/August last year, very seasonal tourism traffic. Interesting to see this summer's performance

    No problems with Lanzarote though, that's an Irish favourite after all!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭.red.


    Air Contractors flying as a Fed Ex feeder flight from CDG to SNN with a stop off in Cork 4 mornings and 4 evenings a week is being pulled from June. It will now fly from CDG to SNN direct. Another blow to Cork Airport albeit a small blow.
    No major headlines about this tho as there are no passenger numbers so the papers or radio stations dont care. Its still lost revenue tho.
    Cork used to be a huge cargo hub. There was bluebird, tnt and dhl flights 4/5 days a week about 5 years ago. That went to 2 airlines, then 1 and then 0 till fed ex came in but its now back to zero again. Again nobody cares as there wasnt passenger numbers but there was huge revenue lost when they all pulled out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    A lot of the old cargo facilities were demolished for the new terminal though as far as I remember, which was a shame.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭.red.


    A lot of the old cargo facilities were demolished for the new terminal though as far as I remember, which was a shame.

    The 3 cargo buildings are still there. The DHL building is being used by WSF tho. The weight bridge is still there and working. The trolleys for the cargo cans are all parked up still rusting away. All thats needed are the flights.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    I'd say Ryanair would love to kick EIR in the shins at cork. Although flying to Beauvais is not worth competition, it would get a few numbers with the low fares considering few know where Beauvais really is.

    Why would this be the case?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Rumors of 2 new routes. Ryanair - Paris Beauvais and a UK route.

    Hopefully Ryanair can challenge Stobart Air to Birmingham.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Nemanrio wrote: »
    Hopefully Ryanair can challenge Stobart Air to Birmingham.
    And collaspe the route. A 737 on a "lite" route will always fare badly as against a prop job, however the down side is that the prop will always be more expensive against a jet to operate passenger fare wise due to small numbers that can be carried.People should really look at the bigger picture rather that than the bottom line, ie; their pockets when they wish for something.
    Also FR's record in Cork is not great for coming on routes forcing the other operater off and then pulling the route saying it's not economicly viable.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    roundymac wrote: »
    And collaspe the route. A 737 on a "lite" route will always fare badly as against a prop job, however the down side is that the prop will always be more expensive against a jet to operate passenger fare wise due to small numbers that can be carried.People should really look at the bigger picture rather that than the bottom line, ie; their pockets when they wish for something.
    Also FR's record in Cork is not great for coming on routes forcing the other operater off and then pulling the route saying it's not economicly viable.

    Why would it be termed a lite route, for a 737 aircraft wouldn't there be enough demand daily to BHX to fill it?

    FR's record isn't great due to the airports charges.

    I do agree however that it is frustrating when a new route by someone other than FR starts, FR then flood it with cheap fares and then once that competitor has pulled the route,FR shags off.

    i.e. Wizz


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Nemanrio wrote: »
    Why would it be termed a lite route, for a 737 aircraft wouldn't there be enough demand daily to BHX to fill it?

    FR's record isn't great due to the airports charges.

    I do agree however that it is frustrating when a new route by someone other than FR starts, FR then flood it with cheap fares and then once that competitor has pulled the route,FR shags off.

    i.e. Wizz
    Easy Jet would be another name to add to the list. Don't know if there is enough demand, if there was I suspect EI would have kept it going with an A320. Look at the Manchester route, at one stage we BA, EI, and BMI Baby flying at the same time, now it's down to EI Reg.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    roundymac wrote: »
    Easy Jet would be another name to add to the list. Don't know if there is enough demand, if there was I suspect EI would have kept it going with an A320. Look at the Manchester route, at one stage we BA, EI, and BMI Baby flying at the same time, now it's down to EI Reg.

    I was actually on the second last or last flight to go from Cork-Mcr with Bmibaby. There was about 15 passengers on it. I think it was A319.

    I think Bmibaby flew to BHX too.

    I thought there would be a fair bit of demand from business people/Uni/tourism & visiting relatives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭lostinsuperfunk


    In 2014 Ryanair tried to compete with Stobart to Birmingham with their flights to East Midlands. They couldn't make it work and gave up pretty quickly. Any time I travelled the plane was less than half full. So I don't think they'll give it another go any time soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/minister-paschal-donohoe-meets-agencies-in-drive-to-grow-cork-airport-320679.html
    Paschal Donohoe has suddenly realized there is an election in the offing. I do like the routes the Airport are hoping to attract.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Nemanrio


    roundymac wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/minister-paschal-donohoe-meets-agencies-in-drive-to-grow-cork-airport-320679.html
    Paschal Donohoe has suddenly realized there is an election in the offing. I do like the routes the Airport are hoping to attract.

    I won't be voting for his party anyway. :p


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    The supposed routes that were planned were not announced. Cork is as well off, a Beauvais route or some Ryanair UK route (which would definitely target Aer Lingus) would not be good for the airport.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭beer enigma


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    The supposed routes that were planned were not announced. Cork is as well off, a Beauvais route or some Ryanair UK route (which would definitely target Aer Lingus) would not be good for the airport.

    Agreed - its new routes that we need not competition on existing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Is there a general Cork Airport thread or is this it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,476 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Thanks to this thread for bringing the attention of the Cardiff route. Have the fiancées family coming over now, 3 of them, for £113 return. Hope this route does well now, Cardiff is a great city.

    Flights are only a Saturday though, not the Tuesday and Friday as the press release thing said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Went to Munich last sat, used the airbridge, god help the passengers that were going to AMS and LHR they must have got soaked getting on board. They really need to get something sorted out regarding the airbridges.
    Also in last saturdays examiner there was a article in the travel section about Munich, poorly written, said EI only fly to MUC on saturdays, seem to have forgotten about Wednesdays.
    Have to complement the cabin crew on last nights flight home. One passenger who was a nervous flyer deceided at the last minute that she wanted off, the cc dealt with her in a very understanding manner and have her compleatly calmed and reassured before she was taken off. Later on the cc came back to her parents to check that they were ok and to reassure them. Take a bow cc.


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