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Tractors at rush hour

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  • 03-04-2015 9:02pm
    #1
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭


    I've been driving to and from work in Mahon and in the last few weeks/ months I seem to be permanently encountering tractors in the morning and evenings on the dual carriageways around the city.

    Anyone else experiencing an increase in this? I've seen some pretty serious traffic shocks going on in the N25 and even the south ring as well as the chaos of tractor drivers who insist on driving in the traffic at rush hour.


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    #2
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    You would see a lot of them on the N25 and the fact that its 120kph speed limit for a stretch,effectively motorway,its a wonder how they are allowed.How there is not a major crash yet,I dont know.
    They should be made use the old road from the tunnel to Midleton and be kept off the dual carriageway.


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    #3
    Lambofdave
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭Lambofdave


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    You would see a lot of them on the N25 and the fact that its 120kph speed limit for a stretch,effectively motorway,its a wonder how they are allowed.How there is not a major crash yet,I dont know.
    They should be made use the old road from the tunnel to Midleton and be kept off the dual carriageway.

    as its a dual carriage way there is no problem with them being on them, if people can't cope with other traffic on the roads maybe they shouldn't be driving?

    As for rush hour traffic what speed is that doing?


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    #4
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    I hit the rush between Little Island and Carrigtwohill every day. Rarely is there a tractor on the road.
    If they were on the old road, with little overtaking opportunity, there'd be others complaining about them using that road.


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    #5
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    Lambofdave wrote: »
    as its a dual carriage way there is no problem with them being on them,

    Thank goodness it's not illegal for them to be there.
    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    I hit the rush between Little Island and Carrigtwohill every day. Rarely is there a tractor on the road.

    I can assure you I've encountered between 1 to a few a week between the mornings and evenings for the last few months. Of course it may be the same handful of tractors repeating the same journeys.
    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    If they were on the old road, with little overtaking opportunity, there'd be others complaining about them using that road.

    It's not their presence. It's their timing. You would expect to see them on B-roads but not rumbling along in the middle of the dual carriageway driving lane in rainy Monday morning rush hour traffic.
    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    its a wonder how they are allowed.How there is not a major crash yet,I dont know.

    My question is that there are major smashes on that road. Several a year. Aside from the consternation of the snow, particularly when the dark mornings start kicking in, you will get backed up behind tailbacks caused by pile-ups and in the case of the N25 they appear to happen on the straight stretches such as up near Harper's Island where there are no junctions and no obvious explanations.

    In or around january twice in a fortnight I've seen the traffic shocked to a stop at Carrigtwohill and eventually overtaken the tractor that caused it at Little Island. The first time I was nearly rear-ended myself. It was a this point their ill-timed presence began to really irk me. If a tractor causes a shock which causes a pile-up since it's not illegal for the tractors to be there and consequently not illegal for them to cause a traffic shock, why would the guards investigate the reason for a pile up or take any action against the root cause? There would be no motivation to.


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    #6
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    While I agree that there are too many tractors using the n40 and n25 ( I see them nearly every day on the n40) are they really the root cause of any potential accident? Or is it the car driver going way too fast for the situation and in his determination to get past quickly ends up in or causes an accident?


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    #7
    solargain
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭solargain


    Any vehicle doing 50km per hour is a danger on a road where the speed limit is 120km . You need to drive with the flow of traffic and not cause a major hold up for 10 miles.
    Traffic on the N25 is bumper to bumper from Midleton to the tunnell in the mornings. 1 slow moving vehicle can really block it up, then the jumping lanes that starts trying to get out past them causes the trouble


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    #8
    soundsham
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭soundsham


    I know that in Germany or some of its cities certain types of vehicles are not allowed on some roads near the city between 6am and 7 or 8 in the evening
    Also I remember in London seeing Jcbs with the teeth of the buckets covered as they drive in urban areas ....


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    #9
    mik_da_man
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,929 ✭✭✭mik_da_man


    I've come across a few tractors on the N40 at rush hour. It's not the worst time for them tbh as generally the traffic is quite slow.

    As far as I have seen the issue is with drivers not recognising what's in front of them until they are on top of it and have to slam on which causes the concertina effect back up the road.

    Maybe it's the fact that I used to drive tractors on the road, or maybe I drive with my eyes open and observing what's on the road ahead of me but I've never been caught out by a tractor.


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    #10
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    mik_da_man wrote: »
    I've come across a few tractors on the N40 at rush hour. It's not the worst time for them tbh as generally the traffic is quite slow.

    As far as I have seen the issue is with drivers not recognising what's in front of them until they are on top of it and have to slam on which causes the concertina effect back up the road.

    Maybe it's the fact that I used to drive tractors on the road, or maybe I drive with my eyes open and observing what's on the road ahead of me but I've never been caught out by a tractor.

    In an ideal world tractors shouldn't affect rush hour traffic but it's just a fact- they do affect traffic each and every time they do it, at least in very heavy dual carriageway traffic. Especially when they're in the driving lane creating a mobile bottleneck. I know that no vehicle should drive in the hard shoulder but every time these people drive in the driving lane they cause chaos. If they didn't have to deal with on-ramps and off-ramps, I'd wager they'd be probably happy enough to stay off in the hard shoulder.

    We've probably all seen the guy on the yellow scooter that joins the dual carriageway at Carrigtwohill. He's probably not legally allowed to drive in the hard shoulder either but he does and (and I'm assuming here) because he probably knows that taking his rightful place in the driving lane would cause chaos.

    There's also the fact that a lot of the time these guys are carting diggers or other non-agricultural plant or equipment. Isn't this what trucks with low-loaders are for?


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    #11
    mik_da_man
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,929 ✭✭✭mik_da_man


    I'm not saying that they don't effect the traffic, of course they do.
    But if people are aware of what's on the road ahead of them it shouldn't cause any shocks, or any more than the usual ones caused by people not driving according to the conditions / traffic levels.

    and btw a digger can be an agricultural vehicle also!


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    #12
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    solargain wrote: »
    Any vehicle doing 50km per hour is a danger on a road where the speed limit is 120km . You need to drive with the flow of traffic and not cause a major hold up for 10 miles.
    Traffic on the N25 is bumper to bumper from Midleton to the tunnell in the mornings. 1 slow moving vehicle can really block it up, then the jumping lanes that starts trying to get out past them causes the trouble

    The speed limit is a limit, not a target.


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    #13
    CHealy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    The speed limit is a limit, not a target.

    The speed limit is set as a maximum average that a vehicle should maintain on that particular road. The Guards can, and have given tickets to people for driving too slowly on these roads, it falls under the dangerous driving category. Tractors should not be aloud on these roads during certain times, its as simple as that.


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    #14
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    CHealy wrote: »
    The speed limit is set as a maximum average that a vehicle should maintain on that particular road. The Guards can, and have given tickets to people for driving too slowly on these roads, it falls under the dangerous driving category. Tractors should not be aloud on these roads during certain times, its as simple as that.

    Can you point me in the direction of this piece of road traffic legislation?


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    #15
    CHealy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Can you point me in the direction of this piece of road traffic legislation?


    What don't you understand about the word 'should'. I never stated this was law.


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    #16
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    CHealy wrote: »
    The speed limit is set as a maximum average that a vehicle should maintain on that particular road.

    I don't really understand what you mean by a "maximum average" ?
    Can you explain that term a bit more please Not trying to be smart or anything here...I genuinely don't know what a maximum average is.


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    #17
    CHealy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    Ludo wrote: »
    I don't really understand what you mean by a "maximum average" ?
    Can you explain that term a bit more please Not trying to be smart or anything here...I genuinely don't know what a maximum average is.

    If the speed limit is 100 km/h, then ideally you should be driving between the range of 80 through to 100 km/h. That is the designated average range that was deemed acceptable for that particular road.

    The South Ring is 100 km/h, if a car is driving at 65 km/h it is going to cause a back log behind him, which in turn will force cars to overtake at a much higher rate than normal, increasing the likeliness of a crash. Its dangerous driving. I'm not sure what max speed tractors get to but from what I've seen its not much higher than 50 km/h, on a road where you should be driving between 80 and 100 km/h, its dangerous, selfish, and should be cracked down on.


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    #18
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Thanks for explaining.
    I am assuming you just made that all up yourself and it is your opinion rather it being in any way factual?


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    #19
    CHealy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    No problem. Its information from my brother-in-law who is a Guard but I don't think its factual as its not really enforced, as we can see with the tractors on the South Ring. It makes sense though and I'm sure there is information somewhere to back it up.


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    #20
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The onus is on the car driver to be in control at all times and to overtake safely, expect the unexpected and not go bombing around everywhere as if it's your own personal Mondello.


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    #21
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    CHealy wrote: »
    No problem. Its information from my brother-in-law who is a Guard but I don't think its factual as its not really enforced, as we can see with the tractors on the South Ring. It makes sense though and I'm sure there is information somewhere to back it up.

    I doubt that somehow. Motorways have a limit of 120kmph but have a minimum of 50kmph. Therefore can't possibly see how 65kmph on a 100kmph limit road can in any way be classed as dangerous. And no way would a guard pull someone for it or be able to prosecute them in any way much an all as they might want to.


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    #22
    CHealy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    But its still dangerous driving wheter its in the law or not. Its about avoiding crashes and people getting hurt, and having tractors on a major ring road is an unnecessary risk.


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    #23
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    The onus is on the car driver to be in control at all times and to overtake safely, expect the unexpected and not go bombing around everywhere as if it's your own personal Mondello.

    In that case, what is the point of having an upper limit of 100kph or 120 kph at all?
    Make it 60 across the country and be done with it.


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    #24
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    Ludo wrote: »
    I doubt that somehow. Motorways have a limit of 120kmph but have a minimum of 50kmph. Therefore can't possibly see how 65kmph on a 100kmph limit road can in any way be classed as dangerous. And no way would a guard pull someone for it or be able to prosecute them in any way much an all as they might want to.

    Why would they want to?


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    #25
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    cantdecide wrote: »
    Why would they want to?

    Coz they are annoying :-)
    The thing is I find them very annoying yet I am defending them. They aren't dangerous in and of themselves but they make other people at like idiots.


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    #26
    Lambofdave
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭Lambofdave


    CHealy wrote: »
    But its still dangerous driving wheter its in the law or not. Its about avoiding crashes and people getting hurt, and having tractors on a major ring road is an unnecessary risk.

    how many accident have been cause by tractors on that road? And where do you propose they go?


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    #27
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    CHealy wrote: »
    But its still dangerous driving wheter its in the law or not.
    If it's dangerous driving, then it'd be against the law. So in this case, it's not dangerous driving.


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    #28
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    I would love to know where they are all coming from and where the hell are they going? I usually travel from Bandon Road roundabout to Bloomfield every day between 3 and 4 .. Most days I see one travelling in one direction or the other. Some days a couple of them. Is there really that much of a need for them to be on the road so much?


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    #29
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    A tractor isn't small, you should be able to see it from a good distance giving you plenty of time to plan your move.
    There's tractors regularly on MOTORWAYs the length of the country so should a dual carriageway(a lower class road) have them banned(even for a time)

    With the truck ban in dublin they had to build the port tunnel to accommodate them, every stretch of toll road& motorway has to have an alternative route for L drivers etc. so what route would those tractors have to use then? Would it be any better?


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    #30
    HIB
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭HIB


    Ludo wrote: »
    I would love to know where they are all coming from and where the hell are they going? I usually travel from Bandon Road roundabout to Bloomfield every day between 3 and 4 .. Most days I see one travelling in one direction or the other. Some days a couple of them. Is there really that much of a need for them to be on the road so much?

    Betcha they're just driving around aimlessly to annoy you.


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    #31
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,832 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Ludo wrote: »
    I would love to know where they are all coming from and where the hell are they going? I usually travel from Bandon Road roundabout to Bloomfield every day between 3 and 4 .. Most days I see one travelling in one direction or the other. Some days a couple of them. Is there really that much of a need for them to be on the road so much?

    Not rush hour then so what's the problem? If they stuck to the small bye roads people will be p*ssing and moaning about them as well. What are they supposed to do? Fly? Levitate? Imagine a lot of these guys are agricultural contractors, rather than farmers.


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