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How should Israel defend itself?

1356789

Comments

  • #102
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    seanaway wrote: »
    No. That's a poor analogy and you know it.

    If your neighbours started shooting at you form their upper window and then ran and stayed away for years because you kicked tehir ass - then yes.

    Let's not forgot how aware the founders of Israel were of exactly what the creation of Israel meant. David Ben-Gurion, first Prime Minister of Israel, was a leading Zionist campaigner said, referring to the Palestinians,
    a people which fights against the usurpation of its land will not tire so easily.

    In the book The Jewish Paradox, he is quoted as saying:
    "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there.

    However much I think the creation of Israel was the wrong thing to do, at least Ben-Gurion showed some appreciation of why the Palestinians were angry, and would stay angry for a long time.

    In contrast, today we have seen the Israeli ambassador to the US say that Israel deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for its "unimaginable restraint" regarding Hamas: http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0722/632450-israel-deserves-nobel-prize-for-restraint-dermer/


    Oh and when you kill 26 members of one family to assasinate one Hamas militant, don't tell me that you're making "remarkable" efforts to avoid civilian casualties.


  • #103
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    seanaway wrote: »
    Of course it matters.

    They wouldn't be there if it hadn't been for Arab aggression. Now the Arabs want them to hand it back without so much as a 'sorry for trying to exterminate you' so they can shell and target from a vantage point?

    Get real.

    Who are these "Arabs" you refer to?


  • #104
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    seanaway wrote: »
    It's a good one especially when you read this:

    The report added that IDF soldiers being treated in Israeli hospitals for injuries sustained when fighting in Gaza said they encountered 13- and 14-year-old Palestinian children running at them wearing explosives-laden suicide-bomber belts.



    Yes, because the IDF never ever make stuff up.......


  • #105
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    Much has been written in the past few weeks on the deaths of Palestinians by Israeli forces. I find it extremely distressing to see the footage of children being treated after Israeli strikes.

    Nevertheless, I consider myself pro-Israel in that I am pro the continued existence of Israel as a democratic state in the Middle East, with much better treatment of LGBT people and woman than they would have in the Palestinian territories.

    I do think the response of Israel has been excessive and calamitous for their international reputation.

    However, how best is Israel to defend itself against huge numbers of rockets that have been fired at it from Gaza (13,000 since 2001, which amounts to about $10.4 million US)?

    I ask this sincerely. How best is Israel to deal with the rockets that are fired at it, for the sake of peace?


    ...by buying and launching even bigger rockets to fire back but as long as the LBGT crowd are protected that's the main thing..LMAO

    What are you thoughts on the origins of Israel and its emergence as a democratic state in 1947?


  • #106
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    partyguinness wrote: »
    ...by buying and launching even bigger rockets to fire back but as long as the LBGT crowd are protected that's the main thing..LMAO

    What are you thoughts on the origins of Israel and its emergence as a democratic state in 1947?

    I have written this here before, I do not see Israel reaching 100 years.


  • #107
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    It's not defence it's a slow annexation/genocide. How should Israel best wipe out an indigenous people?


  • #108
    stuar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    Much has been written in the past few weeks on the deaths of Palestinians by Israeli forces. I find it extremely distressing to see the footage of children being treated after Israeli strikes.

    Nevertheless, I consider myself pro-Israel in that I am pro the continued existence of Israel as a democratic state in the Middle East, with much better treatment of LGBT people and woman than they would have in the Palestinian territories.

    I do think the response of Israel has been excessive and calamitous for their international reputation.

    However, how best is Israel to defend itself against huge numbers of rockets that have been fired at it from Gaza (13,000 since 2001, which amounts to about $10.4 million US)?

    I ask this sincerely. How best is Israel to deal with the rockets that are fired at it, for the sake of peace?

    Maybe follow the blessing of Dov Lior, "religious" leader and chief municipal rabbi of Kiryat Arba and Hebron and destroy and kill everybody in Gaza?

    How about that?, that's the thinking of these filthy zionist pigs, shouldn't the question be how should the inmates of Gaza defend themselves against ongoing zionist aggression.
    An Israeli Rabbi by the name of Dov Lior has recently issued an outrageous ruling which allows the indiscriminate killing of innocent Palestinian civilians including children by the Israeli forces.
    http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/23/israeli-rabbi-approves-killing-palestinian-civilians

    Extremist Israeli Rabbi Dov Lior's Controversial Calls for Destruction of Gaza
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/extremist-israeli-rabbi-dov-lior-calls-destruction-gaza-1457942

    http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2014/07/idf-can-indiscriminately-carpet-bomb-gaza-to-exterminate-the-enemy-senior-zionist-orthodox-rabbi-rules-456.html

    [MOD]We don't really need the debate dragged down to "filthy ... pigs" this and "filthy ... pigs" that, thanks.[/MOD]


  • #109
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Prevention is the best cure. Respect the rights of the Palestinians to live on the land and respect legal boundaries. Stop treating the Palestinians as 2nd class citizens and you will stop giving people a reason to support Hamas.


  • #110
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    seanaway wrote: »
    I think you need to remember that Israel has these lands because they captured them from an enemy greatly superior in number. An enemy which had the destruction of Israel as its goal.
    That the enemy couldn't actually put their fight where their mouth was is as responsible for Israeli 'occupation' as anything else.

    A slight aside but has anyone ever wondered why the UN doesn't ask the Russians to give Finland back the territory it invaded and stole from the Finnsish people?

    Oh! Maybe it's because Russia is too big and Israel so small?

    That's the central issue for me to be honest, and that's why this conflict matters to me a huge amount - I don't believe in punishing civilians for the actions of politicians, so to make civilians homeless because their politicians started a war and lost is, in my opinion, evil of the worst kind imaginable.


  • #111
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    To most simply answer the ops original question.. Iron dome!


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  • #112
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Prevention is the best cure. Respect the rights of the Palestinians to live on the land and respect legal boundaries. Stop treating the Palestinians as 2nd class citizens and you will stop giving people a reason to support Hamas.


    Simples


  • #113
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    seanaway wrote: »
    Simples

    You might get back to me on this.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91392889&postcount=103


  • #114
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    How should Israel defend itself?

    Joining the civilised world would certainly be a good start. Respecting Human Rights and adhering to the Geneva Convention would also be a huge plus. Meaningful negotiation and dialogue is their best form of long term defense. Their actions do nothing but create more death, destruction, fear and hate. And Another generation of Hamas recruits wait in the wings. Yes Israel will say they're fighting terrorists, yet ironically they behave worse than terrorists themselves. In Gaza, Hamas are seen as more than a resistance movement. Surely Israeli war hawks realise they will never defeat them? Hasn't history shown all of us that meaningful negotiations is the only path to long term peace and security?

    Israel is the little school yard bully, that throws his weight around because his much bigger and stronger brother is standing in the corner. And as long as America tacitly backs Israels inhuman treatment of the Palestinian people. Then the cycle will continue. America needs to stop supporting the bully. Maybe then Israel will realise it needs to grow up, sit down and engage in serious negotiations to achieve long term security. But sadly right now, Israel doesn't seem to have a politician with the courage or political will to resolve an age old conflict. The only way it can be resolved is through serious and meaningful dialogue.


  • #115
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    stuar wrote: »

    How about that?, that's the thinking of these filthy zionist pigs, .

    How is this type of language/hate allowed stay posted?


  • #116
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    walshb wrote: »
    How is this type of language/hate allowed stay posted?

    A just and good question. That is nothing more than a racist statement. I've had warnings for far less than that.

    Disgraceful.


  • #117
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    Anyway, back to the op's question.


    Here's an interesting view of the problem. What would you do?

    http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2014/07/09/what-if-terrorists-could-shoot-this-rocket-at-your-country/


  • #118
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    Nodin wrote: »
    You might get back to me on this.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91392889&postcount=103
    Maybe you could get back to me as to your point?

    What a strange habit you have of asking people to get back to you. Do you have a problem understanding the original point made or what is it?


  • #119
    sheesh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    Much has been written in the past few weeks on the deaths of Palestinians by Israeli forces. I find it extremely distressing to see the footage of children being treated after Israeli strikes.

    Nevertheless, I consider myself pro-Israel in that I am pro the continued existence of Israel as a democratic state in the Middle East, with much better treatment of LGBT people and woman than they would have in the Palestinian territories.

    I do think the response of Israel has been excessive and calamitous for their international reputation.

    However, how best is Israel to defend itself against huge numbers of rockets that have been fired at it from Gaza (13,000 since 2001, which amounts to about $10.4 million US)?

    I ask this sincerely. How best is Israel to deal with the rockets that are fired at it, for the sake of peace?

    they could start by helping to create a second state. removing settlers from the occupied territories and returning lands to their original owners Israels best defense would be a prosperous Muslim neighbour that they have peaceful relations with they have Jordan a second one would be even better.

    We in ireland are familiar with a similar conflict even after total domination by the british (by which I mean a british led government running the country with police and public servants running other services) for hundreds of years people were still meeting and planning military actions against them. so the injustice of the taking of peoples lands and properties will not be forgotten.

    at some stage an israeli government will have to issue some sort of reparations. It is strange but neither side seems want to deal with the inconvenient truth that they are stuck with each other.


  • #120
    sheesh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    seanaway wrote: »
    I think you need to remember that Israel has these lands because they captured them from an enemy greatly superior in number. An enemy which had the destruction of Israel as its goal.
    That the enemy couldn't actually put their fight where their mouth was is as responsible for Israeli 'occupation' as anything else.

    A slight aside but has anyone ever wondered why the UN doesn't ask the Russians to give Finland back the territory it invaded and stole from the Finnsish people?

    Oh! Maybe it's because Russia is too big and Israel so small?

    Russia is required under international law to treat the original people living on the land thye have taken in a fair manner, something that the israeli government does not seem to be doing.

    you are right that the size of a country determines which laws have to be obeyed. Israel is doing quiet well in that regard. South Africa was boycotted for apartheid. Zimbabwe is under boycott. Israel not so.


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  • #121
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    seanaway wrote: »
    Maybe you could get back to me as to your point?


    Who are these "Arabs" you refer to?


  • #122
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    walshb wrote: »
    How is this type of language/hate allowed stay posted?

    Because Zionism is a political credo, and is treated here as a political credo. Anti-Semitism is not accepted - and neither are attempts to shut debate down by calling one thing another.

    Neither you nor seanaway reported the post in question - you went for grandstanding on the thread instead, which is pretty gross hypocrisy.

    Don't keep trying it on.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


  • #123
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,459 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I think someone who can fight back just might fight back on behalf of the people of Gaza .
    Right now it's a one sided fight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKd4Yfyh5F0


  • #124
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,459 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    We're innocently standing by
    Watching people lose their lives
    It seems as if we have no voice
    It's time for us to make a choice

    Only God could decide
    Who will live and who will die
    There's nothing that can't be done
    If we raise our voice as one

    They've gotta hear it from me!!!!
    They've gotta hear it from you!!!
    They've gotta hear it from us!
    We can't take it
    We've already had enough!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkmCCTbU7U


  • #125
    steveblack
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭steveblack


    About 14 million jews in the world. Give them the holy land and let them be happy. Every other country on earth is forced to send the children of their leader to israel as a hostage. If a country attacks israel the hostage dies. Thats it, no one attacks israel.
    Nothing else seem to work, might as well try what worked in the middle ages.


  • #126
    sheesh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    steveblack wrote: »
    About 14 million jews in the world. Give them the holy land and let them be happy. Every other country on earth is forced to send the children of their leader to israel as a hostage. If a country attacks israel the hostage dies. Thats it, no one attacks israel.
    Nothing else seem to work, might as well try what worked in the middle ages.

    what do we do with all the other people that live there?


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  • #127
    pO1Neil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 354 ✭✭pO1Neil


    they all ready are defending themselves with a giant dome that repeals any rocket attacks.


  • #128
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    pO1Neil wrote: »
    they all ready are defending themselves with a giant dome that repeals any rocket attacks.

    You know its not literally a Simpsons-movie-like dome don't you?


  • #129
    kikidelvin
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭kikidelvin


    wrote:
    best way for israel to defend against hammas rockets ,plenty of water to put on the blue touch paper.


  • #130
    fran17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭fran17


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    Much has been written in the past few weeks on the deaths of Palestinians by Israeli forces. I find it extremely distressing to see the footage of children being treated after Israeli strikes.

    Nevertheless, I consider myself pro-Israel in that I am pro the continued existence of Israel as a democratic state in the Middle East, with much better treatment of LGBT people and woman than they would have in the Palestinian territories.

    I do think the response of Israel has been excessive and calamitous for their international reputation.

    However, how best is Israel to defend itself against huge numbers of rockets that have been fired at it from Gaza (13,000 since 2001, which amounts to about $10.4 million US)?

    I ask this sincerely. How best is Israel to deal with the rockets that are fired at it, for the sake of peace?

    they have dealt with the rocket attacks,the multi billion dollar u.s dome defence system.i just cannot understand how we are still getting threads trying to justify and defend this country.just again today another U.N school shelled with more children literally blown to pieces,there arms and legs blown off,by what is now clearly a nation that is without respect for any life,any international laws or without morality of the basic kind.


  • #131
    delop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭delop


    In my humble opinion, Israel should reach out to Palestinian moderates thru back channels , then
    1) Make a cease fire work
    2) that cash they get every year from the Us from the 67 peace deal with Egypt , instead of buying arms back off the US with it (which might be a precondition, granted), funnel it into a restructuring/peace fund.

    The Conflict has become so intractable and spun , they should clean the slate , and then throw money at the problems , prosperity would go a great distance , to starting a new process, it would take forever , but I don't expect it to every really end..

    Naive, probably ... but I firmly believe , that Israel will never have security( and not to mention the palestians right to security) while so many people are dying. Tactically they also seem out of options , what more can you do to Gaza , short of things that would be beyond the pale for moderates.


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  • #132
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    fran17 wrote: »
    to be honest now considering the actions of israel in the last three weeks,the genocide and there crimes against humanity I don't think anyone would be offended by those remarks.they reap what they sow?

    Something tells me that the poster of said remarks didn't post it because of the current "genocide."


  • #133
    fran17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭fran17


    walshb wrote: »
    Something tells me that the poster of said remarks didn't post it because of the current "genocide."

    yes I did say GENOCIDE,because that's what has been happening in the Gaza strip for many years now.the systematic and ongoing attempt by the jews to destroy,and that is the final goal of the jews,the entire Palestinian people there.through the murder of there women and children,through there control of the medical,electrical and water supply and there constant erosion of there basic human rights,which are now zero.


  • #134
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    fran17 wrote: »
    yes I did say GENOCIDE,because that's what has been happening in the Gaza strip for many years now.the systematic and ongoing attempt by the jews to destroy,and that is the final goal of the jews,the entire Palestinian people there.through the murder of there women and children,through there control of the medical,electrical and water supply and there constant erosion of there basic human rights,which are now zero.


    There is no state called "The Jews". It's Israel.

    The goal is not genocide but control, the same as sought by any colonial power over a subject people.


  • #135
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Nodin wrote: »
    There is no state called "The Jews". It's Israel.

    The goal is not genocide but control, the same as sought by any colonial power over a subject people.

    I'm not even sure what the goal is anymore, and I doubt they even know themselves.


  • #136
    fran17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭fran17


    Nodin wrote: »
    There is no state called "The Jews". It's Israel.

    The goal is not genocide but control, the same as sought by any colonial power over a subject people.

    Well considering it's the Jewish nation then i think calling them Jews is appropriate,but if you want to split hairs...and if you think that a people that will kill children,asleep in there beds, in a UN school will not continue with there final goal of total Palestine destruction they good luck with that


  • #137
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    fran17 wrote: »
    Well considering it's the Jewish nation then i think calling them Jews is appropriate,but if you want to split hairs...and if you think that a people that will kill children,asleep in there beds, in a UN school will not continue with there final goal of total Palestine destruction they good luck with that

    Mod:

    You may think it is appropriate but it isn't on this forum.
    yes I did say GENOCIDE,because that's what has been happening in the Gaza strip for many years now.the systematic and ongoing attempt by the jews to destroy,and that is the final goal of the jews,the entire Palestinian people there

    The above is racist language and ignores the distinction between Jewish people and Israel as a state. There is a difference, one that is important on this forum. If you ignore this and keep posting similar stuff it will result in a ban. PM me with any questions.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #138
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    The best way Israel can defend themselves is to talk to Hamas, like the British talked with the IRA/Sinn Fein. If you don't engage with these people there will be no peace.


  • #139
    Devostator
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 45 ✭Devostator


    Did you know, that in the the past 26 days of theIsraeli operation "protective edge" on Gaza theIsraeli military :
    1- Killed 1680 Palestinians, over 1100 of them are civilians
    2- Killed 330 Palestinian children


  • #140
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Yep, talking is the only way to end this.

    The iron dome adequately defends Israel from poorly aimed and low-tech rocket attacks. Returning fire is throwing a grenade at a man who threw a rock at your house.

    If Israel actually wanted to stop, the first thing they would do is extend the olive branch. Use Israeli money provide relief and refuge for Palestinians. Show the Palestinians that Israel wants peace by undermining Hamas's support. Treat the Palestinians as human beings and not prisoners and the extremism will begin to fade. Send the IDF in to rebuild roads and homes and infrastructure.

    By all means maintain a blockade, seize and search every ship coming into port, but allow relief workers and relief supplies, filter out the weapons.

    This is how the North was won - while Catholics were an oppressed minority, IRA support was never higher. Once laws actually came in to protect Catholics and treat them as equals, IRA support began to fade. The end result is that most NI Catholics now hate the IRA because they represent a threat to their freedom, they're no longer someone who can win them their freedom.

    The same needs to happen in Gaza. Free the Palestinians and Hamas's reason for existing dies.


  • #141
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    ''If Israel actually wanted to stop, the first thing they would do is extend the olive branch.''

    It did. Hamas broke it and launched rockets as a follow up.

    How come none of the Israel bashers are shouting about this?

    Peace will come when Israel is not attacked by lunatics who want its total destruction - period.

    Egypt has control over the largest crossing into Gaza. Why isn't Hamas launching rockets at Egypt????

    The answers are there for all without blinkers to see.


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  • #142
    conorh91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    seanaway wrote: »
    Egypt has control over the largest crossing into Gaza. Why isn't Hamas launching rockets at Egypt????
    Because Egypt isn't an occupying power.

    Insurgents generally don't use missiles against targets who dare to have an adjacent border. The occupation is sort of the problem.

    I do think Hamas—Palestine, even— shares about half the blame for the conflict. But really, some of the pro-Israeli posters come out with the most outlandish statements.


  • #143
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    conorh91 wrote: »
    Because Egypt isn't an occupying power.

    Insurgents generally don't use missiles against targets who dare to have an adjacent border. The occupation is sort of the problem.

    I do think Hamas—Palestine, even— shares about half the blame for the conflict. But really, some of the pro-Israeli posters come out with the most outlandish statements.

    Have you asked yourself why a 'brother arab state' like Egypt is so concerned that it too blockades Gaza and its tunnels?


  • #144
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    seanaway wrote: »
    Have you asked yourself why a 'brother arab state' like Egypt is so concerned that it too blockades Gaza and its tunnels?

    Maybe because its leaders is in the pockets of The Americans??


  • #145
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    seanaway wrote: »
    ''If Israel actually wanted to stop, the first thing they would do is extend the olive branch.''

    It did. Hamas broke it and launched rockets as a follow up.
    It didn't really. "Stop firing rockets and we'll stop retaliating" isn't really anything except an offer of a ceasefire.
    If you read the rest of my post, I'm referring to an actual offer worth something to the Palestinian people, which would be the first steps towards a peaceful solution. Like lifting the blockade, or otherwise allowing for proper aid relief to get through.

    An offer of a ceasefire is not even the first step towards peace. It's an offer to put the fighting on hold for the time being and nothing more.
    seanaway wrote: »
    Have you asked yourself why a 'brother arab state' like Egypt is so concerned that it too blockades Gaza and its tunnels?
    Because Egypt would be the most peaceful and western friendly nation in the region, not to mention that it wants to keep the peace with Israel due to the fact that Israel has an enormous army and most likely a few nukes too.

    If Egypt were to lift blockades on its borders, it knows that it would be flooded with refugees from Palestine going one way, and Hamas sympathisers going the other way. Israel would not be shy about invading the region to shut it down, and would probably not be quick to leave any regions they occupy.


  • #146
    conorh91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    seanaway wrote: »
    Have you asked yourself why a 'brother arab state' like Egypt is so concerned that it too blockades Gaza and its tunnels?
    Yes, but why are you moving the goalposts?

    For what it's worth, the Arab world has been unhelpful to the Palestinians.

    But they are all entitled to secure their borders and maintain their international relations and there is no inherent reason why Hamas should attack them for so doing.

    You do understand the difference between doing the above and actually occupying a territory… don't you?


  • #147
    satguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭satguy


    Israel should just keep doing what it has been doing for the last 20 years or so... , keep killing women and children..

    They just seem so good at it, or maybe they have special training camps somewhere...


  • #148
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    Devostator wrote: »
    Did you know, that in the the past 26 days of theIsraeli operation "protective edge" on Gaza theIsraeli military :
    1- Killed 1680 Palestinians, over 1100 of them are civilians
    2- Killed 330 Palestinian children


    5500 dead under the the last 6 months of the developing ISlamic State/ISIS/The Levant

    Does not seem to cause the same level of outrage, but perhaps the spotlight is on Israel, not radical Islam sects, as it kills thousands of Christians, burns the Mosques of disbelievers, etc, etc., .

    ISIS threatens also Jordan. So far there is no attack on Israel. It is entirely more complex than simply accusing Israel of being the bad guy. No one condones violence, yet the finger is being pointing in a direction exclusively at Israel, when multiples of numbers are dead under the hand of the growing radical Islamic forces.


  • #149
    conorh91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    dissed doc wrote: »
    5500 dead under the the last 6 months of the developing ISlamic State/ISIS/The Levant

    Does not seem to cause the same level of outrage

    This is a problem for Israeli supporters.

    The occasion of hypocritical criticism A has no bearing on the truth or falsehood of the substance of that criticism. It stands alone.

    It may be legitimate to 'prefer' one cause over another where uniquely pressing circumstances exist. In Gaza's case, this might include the effective confinement of civilians to one small, shrinking territory, and the cumulative rate of killing, over many years. Gaza didn't start this year.

    Nevertheless, the salient point is that hypocrisy is not a legitimate defense to the criticism that has been made. This is logically unassailable.


  • #150
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Maybe because its leaders is in the pockets of The Americans??

    the whole planet is under the thumb of the americans/israelis


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  • #151
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    seamus wrote: »

    Because Egypt would be the most peaceful and western friendly nation in the region, not to mention that it wants to keep the peace with Israel due to the fact that Israel has an enormous army and most likely a few nukes too.

    If Egypt were to lift blockades on its borders, it knows that it would be flooded with refugees from Palestine going one way, and Hamas sympathisers going the other way. Israel would not be shy about invading the region to shut it down, and would probably not be quick to leave any regions they occupy.

    Sorry. This is just ill informed nonsense.

    Why hasn't this happened with the west bank then?
    Why didn't this happen before the blockade?
    Israel has nukes? Yep. Do you SERIOUSLY in the real world we live in think this has ANYTHING to do with it??????

    PLEASE! Get real and stop spouting rubbish.

    If a REAL and LASTING peace is to be reached then Hamas and those FEW who support them must accept the real meanig of PEACE.

    It is NOT a pick and choose option.

    Stop firing rockets at Israel.
    Sit and talk.
    Stop with the 'No Surrender' bull (aka NOrthern Ireland bull)
    Accept their OWN people do not want to be bombed as a result of their selfish two faced actions.
    Then and ONLY then will their be a TRUE hope of peace.


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