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Browns trade Trent Richardson to Colts

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    #32
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Cleveland may use their 2nd rounder on a new right guard

    Oneil Cousins is the worst starting guard in the league!


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    #33
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Syferus wrote: »

    Irsay for all his bloviating has allowed the Colts to run a very tight ship for years now. A Jerry Jones that actually wins games.

    Don't even... :pac:

    Irsay, to his credit, is a far better owner than his eccentricity would suggest. The guy bleeds blue, knows how to properly defer to a GM, but is smart enough to get the right front office in place every time. He's one of the leagues best owners IMO.


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    #34
    taidghbaby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭taidghbaby


    davyjose wrote: »
    Don't even... :pac:

    Irsay, to his credit, is a far better owner than his eccentricity would suggest. The guy bleeds blue, knows how to properly defer to a GM, but is smart enough to get the right front office in place every time. He's one of the leagues best owners IMO.

    Yeah Irsay may talk a lot in the media and on twitter, and may be a little eccentric, but from what I've seen he doesn't interfere with the team itself at all!


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    #35
    Paully D
    Registered Users Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    I've mostly seen people say this is a good move for the Colts and a bad move for the Browns, or say it's a good move for the Browns and bad move for the Colts.

    I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

    Richardson will be far more effective in Indy than he was in Cleveland and I think we will eventually get to see just what everyone thought he was going to produce when he plays with a team who has to plan to stop the quarterback too.

    On the other side of things, the Browns could really do with the extra first rounder to rebuild and unless you're once in a decade talent like an Adrian Peterson or Barry Sanders, running backs are generally always dispensable and replaceable and not someone you can build your franchise around. Look at where some of the really talented running backs have gone in the draft in recent years and it's clear there's always value in the lower rounds.

    That said, it's all well and good having a plan on paper but if there's one team who can make a complete bollocks out of this, it would be the Browns :pac:


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    #36
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000247171/article/trent-richardson-to-cleveland-browns-fans-have-faith

    Richardson's comments to Browns fans are pretty classy


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    #37
    spiralism
    Registered Users Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    I just can't get my head around the fact that they traded up to #3 to get him and then traded him for a probable mid round pick the following year. Indy now has the #1 and #3 pick from that draft. I kinda get the logic in terms of just blowing it up and starting from the bottom up next year (this happens every two years at most with the Browns) but this is Cleveland so id say it's about 5 times as likely that he ends up the next AP than this panning out well for them.


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    #38
    TheBrewMeister
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭TheBrewMeister


    spiralism wrote: »
    I just can't get my head around the fact that they traded up to #3 to get him and then traded him for a probable mid round pick the following year. Indy now has the #1 and #3 pick from that draft. I kinda get the logic in terms of just blowing it up and starting from the bottom up next year (this happens every two years at most with the Browns) but this is Cleveland so id say it's about 5 times as likely that he ends up the next AP than this panning out well for them.

    "They" are gone. The people who traded up to #3 to get him are long gone. This is a whole new Front Office.... New owner, new gm, new president, new everyone.

    The people who made this trade were not the people who traded up last year to get him.


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    #39
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,129 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Ist round pick >> RB

    Running Back isn't that important a position relatively speaking. Stuff like Fantasy Football skews the average fan's perception in that regard. The thing the Browns should be ridiculed for is drafting Richardson where they did. They've actually unwound their mistake.


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    #40
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Ist round pick >> RB

    Running Back isn't that important a position relatively speaking.
    Stuff like Fantasy Football skews the average fan's perception in that regard.
    :rolleyes:

    Ever hear of Adrian Peterson? Ray Rice?
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    The thing the Browns should be ridiculed for is drafting Richardson where they did. They've actually unwound their mistake.
    Richardson in the eyes of the majority was the next great RB. To be fair he looked pretty awesome on all fronts in college. He was going in the top five in that draft no matter what. He was the best looking back since Run DMC and AP before that. Those guys also went top five, that level of RB is always going at the top of the draft. Its got nothing to do with fantasy football.


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    #41
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,129 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    eagle eye wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Ever hear of Adrian Peterson? Ray Rice?

    Richardson in the eyes of the majority was the next great RB. To be fair he looked pretty awesome on all fronts in college. He was going in the top five in that draft no matter what. He was the best looking back since Run DMC and AP before that. Those guys also went top five, that level of RB is always going at the top of the draft. Its got nothing to do with fantasy football.

    Cedric Benson
    Carnell Williams
    Darren McFadden

    How many great Running Backs have the Patriots had during the BB era? When Green Bay won the championship, who did the work?

    The issues that you wouldn't be able to process are:

    - Opportunity cost: a great RB is awesome, but that high pick could get you a stud Lineman; a lockdown corner; etc;
    - If your line and QB suck, your RB is automatically limited in what they can achieve;
    - ADP, all conquering no.1 RB last season drafted 7th overall;
    - Alfred Morris, no.2 in rushing yardage last season drafted 173rd overall;

    Basically, a blanket draft rule of 'no running backs to be drafted in the first three rounds' would serve a franchise just fine.


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    #42
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Ist round pick >> RB

    Running Back isn't that important a position relatively speaking. Stuff like Fantasy Football skews the average fan's perception in that regard. The thing the Browns should be ridiculed for is drafting Richardson where they did. They've actually unwound their mistake.
    If we were stacked on D and our O-line was complete then for the type of power running game we want to employ it would be worth a first rounder. Maybe.
    But I agree we needed that pock for an elite lineman.


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    #43
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    Browns have signed Willis McGahee as his replacement.


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    #44
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    eagle eye wrote: »

    Richardson in the eyes of the majority was the next great RB. To be fair he looked pretty awesome on all fronts in college. He was going in the top five in that draft no matter what. He was the best looking back since Run DMC and AP before that. Those guys also went top five, that level of RB is always going at the top of the draft. Its got nothing to do with fantasy football.


    Only one of those guy have been worth a top 5 pick, hell only on has been worth a first round pick. I think teams will stick pick running backs high, but that's mainly down to the fact that their will still be teams who have terrible GM's.


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    #45
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    How many great Running Backs have the Patriots had during the BB era? When Green Bay won the championship, who did the work?
    Corey Dillon. Antwaine Smith did alright for us too.
    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    The issues that you wouldn't be able to process are:
    Cedric Benson
    Carnell Williams
    Darren McFadden

    - Opportunity cost: a great RB is awesome, but that high pick could get you a stud Lineman; a lockdown corner; etc;
    - If your line and QB suck, your RB is automatically limited in what they can achieve;
    - ADP, all conquering no.1 RB last season drafted 7th overall;
    - Alfred Morris, no.2 in rushing yardage last season drafted 173rd overall;

    Basically, a blanket draft rule of 'no running backs to be drafted in the first three rounds' would serve a franchise just fine.
    I just stuck in all this together because its so stupid. Its the same thing no matter what position you draft.

    Remeber Jason Smith? Andre Smith? Mike Williams? All supposed franchise OTs.

    The undrafted Tyson Clabo and Jason Peters who are among the top tackles in the league. Sebastien Vollmer and David Stewart were two late round picks.

    Rolando McClain is another bust while Wesley Woodyard went undrafted.

    Basically your argument is based around a couple of busts but we all know that happens no matter what the position. If you find a guy who you think is going to be Barry Sanders 2.0 you are going to draft him as early as you can just the same as if you think the player is going to be Lawrence Taylor 2.0 or Dion Sanders or whoever.


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    #46
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    For me he key is that he's so young it's that same as them drafting a new player anyway and I think there getting value provided hes past his injures he will get some space in the colts team so well see he was in a hopeless situation in Cleveland

    Personally I think the colts make the playoffs so with a draft pick that late they probably won't get a player with that kind of potential


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    #47
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,129 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Corey Dillon. Antwaine Smith did alright for us too.

    I just stuck in all this together because its so stupid. Its the same thing no matter what position you draft.

    Remeber Jason Smith? Andre Smith? Mike Williams? All supposed franchise OTs.

    The undrafted Tyson Clabo and Jason Peters who are among the top tackles in the league. Sebastien Vollmer and David Stewart were two late round picks.

    Rolando McClain is another bust while Wesley Woodyard went undrafted.

    Basically your argument is based around a couple of busts but we all know that happens no matter what the position. If you find a guy who you think is going to be Barry Sanders 2.0 you are going to draft him as early as you can just the same as if you think the player is going to be Lawrence Taylor 2.0 or Dion Sanders or whoever.

    No my argument is based around relative value and talent scarcity in the position. I accept that it's hard for you to understand, but spending money on a highly drafted running back or signing a running back with ~3 years experience to a huge deal is a really inefficient use of limited player acquirement resources. Get the other stuff right and it really isn't hard to find a couple of lads who can run into holes for 4ypc+ and ~1200 yards which is all you need to balance things out.


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    #48
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    No my argument is based around relative value and talent scarcity in the position. I accept that it's hard for you to understand, but spending money on a highly drafted running back or signing a running back with ~3 years experience to a huge deal is a really inefficient use of limited player acquirement resources. Get the other stuff right and it really isn't hard to find a couple of lads who can run into holes for 4ypc+ and ~1200 yards which is all you need to balance things out.

    i agree generally but they have the qb thats the biggest need put a rb with Richardson's potential in there and you never know whats going to happen this could end up as a bad decision for the colts but if it works out you could have a qb-rb combo to rival peyton manning- edgerin james or troy aikman- emmet smith or terry bradshaw franko harris


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    #49
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,129 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    nerd69 wrote: »
    i agree generally but they have the qb thats the biggest need put a rb with Richardson's potential in there and you never know whats going to happen this could end up as a bad decision for the colts but if it works out you could have a qb-rb combo to rival peyton manning- edgerin james or troy aikman- emmet smith or terry bradshaw franko harris

    That's fine, but after 298 NFL carries for 1,055 yards is he still worth a first round pick? Is he still this huge talent? Certainly hasn't looked like it thus far.

    People underestimate the value of low first round draft picks tbh.


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    #50
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,632 ✭✭✭nerd69


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    That's fine, but after 298 NFL carries for 1,055 yards is he still worth a first round pick? Is he still this huge talent? Certainly hasn't looked like it thus far.

    People underestimate the value of low first round draft picks tbh.

    i wouldnt worry about his production so far to much my biggest issue is the volume of carries he has in the nfl on top of the huge amount he had in alabama


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    #51
    taidghbaby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭taidghbaby


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    That's fine, but after 298 NFL carries for 1,055 yards is he still worth a first round pick? Is he still this huge talent? Certainly hasn't looked like it thus far.

    People underestimate the value of low first round draft picks tbh.

    Easy thing is to look at the players who drafted after the Colts picked this year (if you assume the Colts pick around the same place)! Out of those I'd maybe take Hopkins over Richardson!

    IMO 1st round picks aren't as important when your QB is on his rookie deal! Next year and the year after the Colts will have plenty of cap space to bring in veterans I'm areas of need!


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    #52
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Wonder what changed for Lombardi.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82885edd/article/nfl-draft-forecast-chandler-jones-up-courtney-upshaw-down


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    #53
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    That's fine, but after 298 NFL carries for 1,055 yards is he still worth a first round pick? Is he still this huge talent? Certainly hasn't looked like it thus far.

    People underestimate the value of low first round draft picks tbh.

    Add in 12 td's (breaking Jim Brown's franchise rookie record) & 460 receiving yards


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    #54
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    Add in 12 td's (breaking Jim Brown's franchise rookie record) & 460 receiving yards

    And mostly within broken ribs and on against teams that were stacking the box. Richardson is for real.


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    #55
    Emperor1989
    Registered Users Posts: 924 ✭✭✭Emperor1989


    Syferus wrote: »
    And mostly within broken ribs and on against teams that were stacking the box. Richardson is for real.


    2 Broken ribs and expected to rush with little help from the offensive line and a stacked box.

    Richardson is going to be a star with the Colts....Great move for him he can finally fulfill his potential at the highest level.


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    #56
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,129 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    35 yards on 13 carries last night.


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    #57
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Syferus wrote: »
    And mostly within broken ribs and on against teams that were stacking the box. Richardson is for real.



    That's not very accurate. Richardson only faced 8 in the box 17% of the time, league average was 23%.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/09/20/3tfo-jaguars-seahawks-week-3/


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    #58
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    35 yards on 13 carries last night.

    First game on a new team. Hardly a fair judgement.

    Anyway, ill take it if Bradshaw plays like that.


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    #59
    raven136
    Registered Users Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭raven136


    Emperor1989 wrote: »
    2 Broken ribs and expected to rush with little help from the offensive line and a stacked box.

    Richardson is going to be a star with the Colts....Great move for him he can finally fulfill his potential at the highest level.

    Isnt the Line actually good,especially Joe Thomas?


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    #60
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    raven136 wrote: »
    Isnt the Line actually good,especially Joe Thomas?

    Alex Mack the center will be a probowler for years to come, beast.

    Oneil Cousins the right guard is a liability and should never see the field ever again. Not even worthy of a backup roster spot.

    The left guard Greco and right tackle Schwartz are decent.

    Yes it's a decent line, certainly top 15 imo


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    #61
    TO.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    35 yards on 13 carries last night.

    Not forgetting his touchdown. Sure Richardson has a lot to prove and sure he could fail in Indy but has he become your new Tebow? First game with the Colts and only in for selected plays. Yet to full grasp the playbook and sharing carries with Bradshaw who was a beast yesterday. But hey not surprised you are writing Richardson off already. Colts may have overpaid for him in many eyes but writing him because of that is just nonsense at this point especially after 1 game with the Colts.


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