Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Options
1…4344464849…164

Comments

  • Options
    #1352
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Just wondering when BXD is finished will it be physically possible for a tram from Tallaght to join onto the green line where they cross over ? If so are there any plans to run this type of service or is it seen as unnecessary, with commuters changing trams at Abbey St being the preferred option ?


  • Options
    #1353
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Just wondering when BXD is finished will it be physically possible for a tram from Tallaght to join onto the green line where they cross over ? If so are there any plans to run this type of service or is it seen as unnecessary, with commuters changing trams at Abbey St being the preferred option ?

    No the links are not suitable for service, only transfer of trams. The one from Tallaght to the Point has to reverse to go towards SSG. SSG to Tallaght is possible.


  • Options
    #1354
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    No the links are not suitable for service, only transfer of trams. The one from Tallaght to the Point has to reverse to go towards SSG. SSG to Tallaght is possible.

    Though it is possible for a northbound tram to do a loop of the city centre and return south to Sandyford. Might be an option on the time table.

    A Sandyford tram could go towards Heuston but there is no practical return path so it will only be run as separate lines.


  • Options
    #1355
    Cinephille1888
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Cinephille1888


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Though it is possible for a northbound tram to do a loop of the city centre and return south to Sandyford. Might be an option on the time table.

    A Sandyford tram could go towards Heuston but there is no practical return path so it will only be run as separate lines.

    Trams from The Point may also head south before abbey street onto Marlborough.

    This may be useful for events.

    However it is a tight turn, and although it is in the plans, it may not be as necessary for stock transfer.


  • Options
    #1356
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Cinephille1888 wrote: »
    Trams from The Point may also head south before abbey street onto Marlborough.

    This may be useful for events.

    However it is a tight turn, and although it is in the plans, it may not be as necessary for stock transfer.

    Sure? http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/08_BXD_ST_29_B-C2.pdf

    Looks like the spur joins the east bound track (to The Point/Connolly) and not the eastbound one i.e from The Point. Unless it can make use of the crossover further east? RPA describe the connection as only being used for stock transfer.

    It would cause confusion for Point users. Far simpler for the operators to get people to change and the usual interchanges.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1357
    Cinephille1888
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Cinephille1888


    I see that now actually.

    But the arrow and the letters are "Southbound" coming from the point.

    LRT I'm guessing means left running traffic?

    But it does connect to the Eastbound track, which confuses matters.

    Such a manoeuvre would be too complicated for an event tram with other waiting behind. Better to switch trams or take shuttle buses to the green line loop.


  • Options
    #1358
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    LRT = Light Rail Transit


  • Options
    #1359
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Do people see the inability of the new line design to not make tram transfers from green to red and vice versa as potentially limiting, either now or in the future? I guess the RPA have done their research and found that demand for a (for example) Tallaght to Broombridge service just isn't there. Fair enough. But could it not be a mistake to at least install tracks to make it possible, even if the tracks were rarely used?

    I'm just thinking too for further down the line when we might see a third line installed and as the network grows so too does the combinations of starting and finishing points for trams. If for example a Blanch to Rathfarmham line were built and it has the tracks for the tram to switch line then that opens up the possibility of Blanch to IFSC or onto the Green line out to Sandyford. Does anyone know do the operators tend to make a decision on preferring customers to transfer at line interchanges or if the above is ever a possibility in the future?


  • Options
    #1360
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    It's better to have fewer lines and for people to transfer than to have multiple routes sharing the same tracks.


  • Options
    #1361
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Aard wrote: »
    It's better to have fewer lines and for people to transfer than to have multiple routes sharing the same tracks.

    I think every Metro/LRT/Underground map I have every seen would disagree with this.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1362
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Do people see the inability of the new line design to not make tram transfers from green to red and vice versa as potentially limiting, either now or in the future? I guess the RPA have done their research and found that demand for a (for example) Tallaght to Broombridge service just isn't there. Fair enough. But could it not be a mistake to at least install tracks to make it possible, even if the tracks were rarely used?

    I'm just thinking too for further down the line when we might see a third line installed and as the network grows so too does the combinations of starting and finishing points for trams. If for example a Blanch to Rathfarmham line were built and it has the tracks for the tram to switch line then that opens up the possibility of Blanch to IFSC or onto the Green line out to Sandyford. Does anyone know do the operators tend to make a decision on preferring customers to transfer at line interchanges or if the above is ever a possibility in the future?

    There is physically not enough space to have any other connection at Marlborough Street / Abbey Street other than that proposed. That's the reality of the situation.

    I don't think it is beyond the ability of people to switch from one line to another - the stops are around the corner from one another.

    There has been an entire consultation process for the BXD Green Line extension which was heavily publicised - you had an opportunity to review the plans then and make a submission on it, which clearly your didn't.

    The planned weekday service patterns on the Green Line are (I understand) going to be: Parnell to Brides Glen and Sandyford to Broombridge.


  • Options
    #1363
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,313 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Do people see the inability of the new line design to not make tram transfers from green to red and vice versa as potentially limiting, either now or in the future? I guess the RPA have done their research and found that demand for a (for example) Tallaght to Broombridge service just isn't there. Fair enough. But could it not be a mistake to at least install tracks to make it possible, even if the tracks were rarely used?

    I'm just thinking too for further down the line when we might see a third line installed and as the network grows so too does the combinations of starting and finishing points for trams. If for example a Blanch to Rathfarmham line were built and it has the tracks for the tram to switch line then that opens up the possibility of Blanch to IFSC or onto the Green line out to Sandyford. Does anyone know do the operators tend to make a decision on preferring customers to transfer at line interchanges or if the above is ever a possibility in the future?

    I think having to 'make a change' is perfectly reasonable (and standard enough worldwide) so long as the distance isn't extreme. The current planned walk from say Abbey St station to O'Connell St station is probably less than that if you were swapping from Bakerloo to District in a London Tube station and had to walk a long corridor, up two escalators, and down a small stairwell to get to your second platform.


  • Options
    #1364
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Do people see the inability of the new line design to not make tram transfers from green to red and vice versa as potentially limiting, either now or in the future? I guess the RPA have done their research and found that demand for a (for example) Tallaght to Broombridge service just isn't there. Fair enough. But could it not be a mistake to at least install tracks to make it possible, even if the tracks were rarely used?

    I'm just thinking too for further down the line when we might see a third line installed and as the network grows so too does the combinations of starting and finishing points for trams. If for example a Blanch to Rathfarmham line were built and it has the tracks for the tram to switch line then that opens up the possibility of Blanch to IFSC or onto the Green line out to Sandyford. Does anyone know do the operators tend to make a decision on preferring customers to transfer at line interchanges or if the above is ever a possibility in the future?

    It would be a waste of space and additional maintenance and construction. At present bothe the red and green line will exceed their capacities anyway so there will be no peak hour available paths on either line anyway. The only way we could have a sandyford tallaght or tallaght broombridge service is by reducing the normal services which would be completely unacceptable, it would mean some tallaght trams missing out on the abbey st stop and rail connections at Connolly, also some sandyfor trams would miss rail connections at broombridge and wouldn't connect well into the northside.

    Also the link between the two routes is only really usefull for people changing between central sections, e.g. Ranelagh-Heuston, Dominick st to the point etc. people aren't going to use it for Tallaght-Sandyford journeys which can be made quicker by bus


  • Options
    #1365
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Do people see the inability of the new line design to not make tram transfers from green to red and vice versa as potentially limiting, either now or in the future? I guess the RPA have done their research and found that demand for a (for example) Tallaght to Broombridge service just isn't there. Fair enough. But could it not be a mistake to at least install tracks to make it possible, even if the tracks were rarely used?

    I'm just thinking too for further down the line when we might see a third line installed and as the network grows so too does the combinations of starting and finishing points for trams. If for example a Blanch to Rathfarmham line were built and it has the tracks for the tram to switch line then that opens up the possibility of Blanch to IFSC or onto the Green line out to Sandyford. Does anyone know do the operators tend to make a decision on preferring customers to transfer at line interchanges or if the above is ever a possibility in the future?

    Not at all. This is how most services are designed - as lines A to B with connecting tracks for engineering purposes.

    Future lines will be designed in the same way - A to B and change to other lines at various stops.


  • Options
    #1366
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    A sensible link would be to for the red line to go down HighSt and onto College Green and link with the Green line allowing Tallaght to Parnell Sq. and out the BXD.


  • Options
    #1367
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Not at all. This is how most services are designed - as lines A to B with connecting tracks for engineering purposes.

    Future lines will be designed in the same way - A to B and change to other lines at various stops.

    Seems a bit DAFT, and the total opposite to how all other Rail/LRT/Tram/Bus networks operate.


  • Options
    #1368
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Seems a bit DAFT, and the total opposite to how all other Rail/LRT/Tram/Bus networks operate.

    I think LRTs that run every combination of every route is the exception as oppose to the norm. I don't know of any, in fact.


  • Options
    #1369
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    You can have a simple "X" arrangement of lines, like the Red and Green lines will be. Alternatively you can have up to 6 lines taking advantage of each branch. The problem with that is that it complicates the service pattern, the centrepoint of the system sees more conflict with all the turning patterns, and customers will still have to transfer or else wait for the next tram to their destined branch which could be 20 minutes away off peak.


  • Options
    #1370
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I think LRTs that run every combination of every route is the exception as oppose to the norm. I don't know of any, in fact.

    Of course not every possible combination, not enough crayons in the pack for that, but the comment I replied to said there would be no overlapping routes.


  • Options
    #1371
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Of course not every possible combination, not enough crayons in the pack for that, but the comment I replied to said there would be no overlapping routes.

    They already exist, Heuston to Connolly overlaps with Tallaght/Saggart to the Point. Stephen's Green to Sandyford overlaps with Stephen's Green to wherever it is beyond that.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1372
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    I had originally thought the green loop should go down abbey street so people could change on the same platform but I now think the current setup is preferable. As already stated walking around a corner is no different to London Underground for example. Running services on existing lines just complicates and restricts capacity. In a way the northern line is a good example, if the train is a few minutes late it can get stuck behind a DART and crawl to Malahide. The Luas wouldn't be as extreme but it adds unnecessary bottlenecks into the system.

    The Lucan line sharing with Red in parts could have similar issues?

    Thinking about it again, this may be rubbish, other cities have multiple routes running on central lines in the city.


  • Options
    #1373
    The Dark Knight
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭The Dark Knight


    Just wondering does anybody know the Travel Time for the BXD line.
    For example, what will the time be from Broombridge to Stephens Green?


  • Options
    #1374
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,560 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The Dark Knight wrote: »
    Just wondering does anybody know the Travel Time for the BXD line.
    For example, what will the time be from Broombridge to Stephens Green?



    21 minutes to travel the 5.6Km from St. Stephen’s Green to Broombridge
    24 minutes to travel the 5.9km from Broombridge to St. Stephen’s Green


  • Options
    #1375
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    I had originally thought the green loop should go down abbey street so people could change on the same platform but I now think the current setup is preferable. As already stated walking around a corner is no different to London Underground for example. Running services on existing lines just complicates and restricts capacity. In a way the northern line is a good example, if the train is a few minutes late it can get stuck behind a DART and crawl to Malahide. The Luas wouldn't be as extreme but it adds unnecessary bottlenecks into the system.

    The Lucan line sharing with Red in parts could have similar issues?

    Thinking about it again, this may be rubbish, other cities have multiple routes running on central lines in the city.

    The solution is to have the Red line from Tallaght/CityWest continue down to College Green rather than turning down to Heuston.

    The Lucan line could use the Red line to Heuston from the Point and out the N4.


  • Options
    #1376
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Godge wrote: »
    The solution is to have the Red line from Tallaght/CityWest continue down to College Green rather than turning down to Heuston.

    The Lucan line could use the Red line to Heuston from the Point and out the N4.

    If it was my pack of crayons, the City West Junction would be a tri-angular junction, as it was in the origional plans, as would where the Lucan line joins Tallaght line, and then where it splits away again, and also at College Green.

    They would allow Tallaght/Sagart/Lucan trams to go to the city either via the Liberties, or the existing north city Line and a circular service College Green - Liberties - Huestion - Smithfield - College Green.

    Service pattern can be change quickly with a Bus, but Rails are less flexible, so needs to be built in.


  • Options
    #1377
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Quick question, will the roads and footpaths be redone again once the line is more less in place. The place looks a bit messy with patches or tar thrown everywhere. Around College Green area. They done the works on O'Connell st area much better not all the patchy work like on College Green. I know the works needed at College Green are much bigger etc.


  • Options
    #1378
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Short answer - yes. Such projects generally are designed from one building line across to the other, footpaths included.


  • Options
    #1379
    Cinephille1888
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Cinephille1888


    Has anyone seen the current site at the Parnell Monument at the entrance to O'Connel Street?

    The sharp curve forces Buses and long streams of taxi's and bikes to spit out at higher speeds right into a pedestrian crossing.


    It's a crossing pedestrians rarely wait for as it is, and it's just become more dangerous.

    Even several meters down at Cathal Brugagh Street the traffic is somewhat notably faster as a result.

    The blind-ish turn is just shooting vehicles out as they accelerate on their way out of the turn.

    It will take an accident for someone to notice.

    Which reminds me, there was an accident today.

    But on Bolton Street.

    I saw Garda and an Ambulance attend to someone put onto a back board at the hole in the ground at the traffic lights at Dominick Street.

    Other people heard a clatter of metal, another a scream. Someone was hurt, either in the hole, or crossing the road.

    They were taken away rather quickly as I could see from the top floor of Bolton street, but still rather serious.


  • Options
    #1380
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,864 ✭✭✭trellheim


    I have had a good look and cant find any updates on the Maxol/BXD/Broadstone issue , anyone know whats going on , its a bit "Comical Ali" at this stage , if they were going eminent domain on it you'd have seen the CPO by now I would have thought ?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1381
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I would keep an eye on the DIT Grangegorman thread where that is a big concern as well and i havent seen a thing about it.

    Last i heard they were going to continue the development of the entrance plaza 'around' the Maxol garage. Madness!!

    I think work was to start on that in early 2015 if memory serves me right


Advertisement