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Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

13567…16

Comments

  • #102
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    They are mostly economic migrants, but sure, dont mention the war.

    anyone understand this? seriously it makes no sense to me

    do you mean that people who want a job would apply for asylum in one of two EU countries where asylum seekers are not allowed to work


  • #103
    zom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    They are mostly economic migrants, but sure, dont mention the war.

    Economic migrant for €19 week? Where from? Not many countries in the world pay as low.

    From the other side - immigrants usually spend their welfare some useless way like paying their families back in their countries, buying cars or overseas holidays. Not like lot of Irish welfare class who spend most on alcohol or gambling and we all knows it benefits state a lot.


  • #104
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    They are mostly economic migrants, but sure, dont mention the war.

    The vast majority of people accept that the majority of Asylum seekers are economic migrants. As I pointed out earlier due to a number of reasons the numbers seeking asylum have dropped from 12,500 a year peak to less than a 1000 a year and dropping. The total in direct provision is about 7,000 so as a problem is disappearing.


  • #105
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    anyone understand this? seriously it makes no sense to me

    do you mean that people who want a job would apply for asylum in one of two EU countries where asylum seekers are not allowed to work

    The vast, vast majority of people who claimed asylum in the Irish state failed to gain refugee status as their applications were 'cock and bull' stories - they were bogus claimants.

    Facilitated by misguided folk such as yourself and the legal profession.


  • #106
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,185 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Ranicand wrote: »
    The usual suspects will be on before long screaming racism.

    The truth can not be told and the usual suspects will bait users who dare speak the truth and get them banned.

    Because we all know it is very hateful to disagree with throwing money away to people who have never or will never contribute a cent to this state.
    stop talking crap, going on about "screaming/crying racism" or not being able to "speak the truth" when it just isn't true would make it look as if you are just that, a racist, for what its worth i wouldn't have a problem with such reforms however allow these people to work instead, in saying that David Cameron won't go ahead with these reforms, its just a ploy to get re-elected.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #107
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    The vast, vast majority of people who claimed asylum in the Irish state failed to gain refugee status as their applications were 'cock and bull' stories - they were bogus claimants.

    Facilitated by misguided folk such as yourself and the legal profession.


    No such finding is made. An application is either successful or it fails. Theres no finding made as to whether its bogus or not.


  • #108
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    The vast majority of people accept that the majority of Asylum seekers are economic migrants. As I pointed out earlier due to a number of reasons the numbers seeking asylum have dropped from 12,500 a year peak to less than a 1000 a year and dropping. The total in direct provision is about 7,000 so as a problem is disappearing.

    And if we repatriated the vast majority of them, like we should have, and not allowed them play the system - 70 different nationalities wouldnt be on fingal county councils housing list.


  • #109
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    Ranicand wrote: »
    I have Aspergers so it is a FACT my mind does not work that way.

    .

    How many times are you going to make excuses for your arsėhole posts, using Aspergers?


  • #110
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Never before have i seen a thread more contrived to raise anti immigration and pure racist hostility.
    OP reminds me me of someone...


  • #111
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    Nodin wrote: »
    They get 19 Euro a week. They don't get the benefits yer man was referring to.
    As i asked already how much is this costing the Irish state every year? People are sick of freeloaders coming into the country getting free bed and board three meals a day and allowances for their kids to go to school while you have families struggling to make ends meet.


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  • #112
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    And if we repatriated the vast majority of them, like we should have, and not allowed them play the system - 70 different nationalities wouldnt be on fingal county councils housing list.


    They're entitled to be here, otherwise they wouldn't be on the list.
    Grandmofftarkin wrote:
    People are sick of freeloaders coming into the country getting free bed and board three meals a day and allowances for their kids to go to school while you have families struggling to make ends meet.

    Why are they "freeloaders"?


  • #113
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    And if we repatriated the vast majority of them, like we should have, and not allowed them play the system - 70 different nationalities wouldnt be on fingal county councils housing list.

    You don't get it do you, only persons with legal status can apply to be on the housing list. It's simple failed Asylum Seeker can't apply to be on housing list.


  • #114
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    People living here regardless of their nationality should all be treated the same... going forward now that is another question.


  • #115
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    As i asked already how much is this costing the Irish state every year? People are sick of freeloaders coming into the country getting free bed and board three meals a day and allowances for their kids to go to school while you have families struggling to make ends meet.
    A lot of money, but while many may be found to not meet the criteria required to remain here , you can hardly blame asylum seekers for a system that keeps them in refugee camps for up to seven years. The government needs to get its act together , the current system is unfair to both genuine asylum/refugee applicants and to the taxpayer.


  • #116
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    You don't get it do you, only persons with legal status can apply to be on the housing list. It's simple failed Asylum Seeker can't apply to be on housing list.

    How many failed asylum seekers get repatriated? Not many. They get leave to remain after exhausting the system and then they are entitled to the same benefits and social housing as an Irish citizen.


  • #117
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    How many failed asylum seekers get repatriated? Not many. They get leave to remain after exhausting the system and then they are entitled to the same benefits and social housing as an Irish citizen.


    You'll be able to provide figures to back that up, I trust?


  • #118
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    And if we repatriated the vast majority of them, like we should have, and not allowed them play the system - 70 different nationalities wouldnt be on fingal county councils housing list.

    70? You sure about that considering there are only 195 countries in the world.


  • #119
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    How many failed asylum seekers get repatriated? Not many. They get leave to remain after exhausting the system and then they are entitled to the same benefits and social housing as an Irish citizen.
    Utter and unadulterated bullshít, sounds like a press release for the BNP


  • #120
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    Equality is a fundamental part of society. Racism and ignorance, such as that which can be seen in this thread, are holding the human race. As soon as the self righteous superiority stops, we'll start making progress.

    In relation to the social welfare, it is too attractive to low lifes and freeloaders. It is absolutely irrational to say that all of these freeloaders are foreign. There are many, many Irish people taking advantage of the system. David Cameron, and the Irish government, should focus on social welfare fraud.


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  • #121
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    T-K-O wrote: »
    People living here regardless of their nationality should all be treated the same... going forward now that is another question.

    For a state to have any meaning, its citizens must come first. They must have rights over non citizens and immigration must be measured as by how it can benefit the citizen - not how it can benefit the non citizen.


  • #122
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    RasTa wrote: »
    70? You sure about that considering there are only 195 countries in the world.

    I linked to it and mentioned it in my opening piece.

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

    There you go.


  • #123
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    For a state to have any meaning, its citizens must come first. They must have rights over non citizens and immigration must be measured as by how it can benefit the citizen - not how it can benefit the non citizen.

    Your ideology reminds me of several dictators. How about some compassion and respect for all humans? Asylum seekers do not come for the craic, they are generally fleeing war torn or famine stricken countries.


  • #124
    teatreeshamble
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭teatreeshamble


    Benefits should be cut for all long term unemployed who don't have a valid, citizen voted reason. Get rid of the entitlement culture. Waiting lists for housing, medical and anything else should be dished out to those who have paid the most tax in the preceding years, regardless of nationality.

    Sick of freeloaders who just don't want to work.

    UK unemployed survive on £71 (over 25 y.o.) a week yet Ireland sees fit to pay €188 (over 25 y.o.)


  • #125
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    I linked to it and mentioned it in my opening piece.

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

    There you go.

    Oh the independent, lol.

    Anyway if you read the article it states we pay 520m per year on RSA. That should be scrapped tomorrow.

    We would save at max 5m with what you are suggesting


  • #126
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    I linked to it and mentioned it in my opening piece.

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

    There you go.

    And Fingal is the richer culturally for their presence.:)


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  • #127
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    For a state to have any meaning, its citizens must come first. They must have rights over non citizens and immigration must be measured as by how it can benefit the citizen - not how it can benefit the non citizen.

    I'm more concerned with the future. What's done is done and we cannot now removed rights or benefits of those in the country. We need to crack down on fraud and limit immigration going forward.


  • #128
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    As i asked already how much is this costing the Irish state every year? People are sick of freeloaders coming into the country getting free bed and board three meals a day and allowances for their kids to go to school while you have families struggling to make ends meet.
    refugee= displaced person, not free loader they didn't chose to leave they had to
    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    And if we repatriated the vast majority of them, like we should have, and not allowed them play the system - 70 different nationalities wouldnt be on fingal county councils housing list.
    its not asylum seekers on the housing list


  • #129
    fozz10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    make all there social welfare payment rates relevant to their native country. cant be fairer then that.


  • #130
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Prodigious wrote: »
    Your ideology reminds me of several dictators. How about some compassion and respect for all humans? Asylum seekers do not come for the craic, they are generally fleeing war torn or famine stricken countries.

    The facts prove that to be a lie. A previous secretary general of the minstry for justice, a Mr. Sean Aylward, claimed that the vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland were economic migrants lying through their teeth. He claimed we got 70, 000 asylum seekers during his tenure, yet, only 2, 600 were repatriated.


  • #131
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    fozz10 wrote: »
    make all there social welfare payment rates relevant to their native country. cant be fairer then that.

    How is that fair in any way? Pay a polish man the minimum wage that he would receive in Poland and he wouldn't be able to afford basic necessities over here.


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  • #132
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    fozz10 wrote: »
    make all there social welfare payment rates relevant to their native country. cant be unfairer then that.
    FYP


  • #133
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,185 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Not if you are the poor sap getting up at the crack of dawn every morning to pay your own mortgage and their welfare to boot.
    even if their were no foreign nationals in ireland you would still be getting up at the crack of dawn to pay your mortgage and pay someone elses welfare

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #134
    fozz10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    Prodigious wrote: »
    How is that fair in any way? Pay a polish man the minimum wage that he would receive in Poland and he wouldn't be able to afford basic necessities over here.

    not there wages. wages are EARNED


  • #135
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    And Fingal is the richer culturally for their presence.:)

    Poorer fiscally.


  • #136
    teatreeshamble
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭teatreeshamble


    fozz10 wrote: »
    make all there social welfare payment rates relevant to their native country. cant be fairer then that.

    That's just dumb. These people aren't freeloaders. If they've paid tax here/are still paying tax, then they should get the same perks of residence as "native" Irish.
    Being on the housing list could also mean they are in low paid jobs i.e. still paying tax. Plenty of other people(Irish or not) should get their benefits/entitlements cut first.


  • #137
    fozz10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    and when there stamp runs out after 12 months? who pays it then


  • #138
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    fozz10 wrote: »
    and when there stamp runs out after 12 months? who pays it then
    Stamps haven't existed since the late 70's when they were replaced with PRSI and it runs out after 9 months, not that you actually get anything for it anymore.


  • #139
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    teatreeshamble wrote: »
    That's just dumb. These people aren't freeloaders. If they've paid tax here/are still paying tax, then they should get the same perks of residence as "native" Irish.
    Being on the housing list could also mean they are in low paid jobs i.e. still paying tax. Plenty of other people(Irish or not) should get their benefits/entitlements cut first.

    If you migrate to another country, pay your way and respect the law of the land. I dont really care about integration and your religous beliefs.

    Cant pay your way - slan leat.

    Other than in the UK, where would an Irish lad be able to move to another country, work a minimum wage job and got hooked up with a nice free abode?

    We are broke. We cant house anyone and everyone who rocks on up here.


  • #140
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    fozz10 wrote: »
    not there wages. wages are EARNED

    I'm pointing out that any payments relative to their home countries are low in comparison.


  • #141
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    SEVENTEEN BILLION EURO (half our tax take) is what this country spends on welfare. I dont know how much we spend on migrants out of that but I would suggest that while we have to keep cutting the pay of our Gardai, nurses and other essential services whilst raising taxes on the general population, we should be placing restrictions on welfare entitlements for non nationals. Its not racism its just common sense.


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  • #142
    fozz10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    you know what i mean the post was saying there entitled to it as they paid taxes. which they are of course.i was just stating that after that their 'stamp' as i still call it runs out


  • #143
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Poorer fiscally.
    You obviously have no understanding of the word fiscal . And as I live in Fingal know what a positive and siverse place it is.


  • #144
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    deccurley wrote: »
    SEVENTEEN BILLION EURO (half our tax take) is what this country spends on welfare. I dont know how much we spend on migrants out of that but I would suggest that while we have to keep cutting the pay of our Gardai, nurses and other essential services whilst raising taxes on the general population, we should be placing restrictions on welfare entitlements for non nationals. Its not racism its just common sense.

    It's not racism to pay one man less because he's foreign? Sort yourself out.


  • #145
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Prodigious wrote: »
    I'm pointing out that any payments relative to their home countries are low in comparison.

    Not in all cases. Anyway, it is irrelevant. Their wages are earned. Freebies are not.


  • #146
    fozz10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    Prodigious wrote: »
    I'm pointing out that any payments relative to their home countries are low in comparison.

    i know that would save a lot of money wouldnt it? no one would hang around to claim it then


  • #147
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    The facts prove that to be a lie. A previous secretary general of the minstry for justice, a Mr. Sean Aylward, claimed that the vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland were economic migrants lying through their teeth. He claimed we got 70, 000 asylum seekers during his tenure, yet, only 2, 600 were repatriated.

    ahh yes the man who said most women entered Magdalen laundries voluntarily which meant the state didn't owe them compensation
    clearly a compassionate man

    http://www.thejournal.ie/un-committee-hears-vast-majority-of-women-entered-magdalene-laundries-voluntarily-or-with-consent-143108-May2011/


  • #148
    Prodigious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Prodigious


    Hardly irrelevant. If you give a polish man SOCIAL welfare relative to the amount he would get in his own country, he would not survive.


  • #149
    fozz10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭fozz10


    Prodigious wrote: »
    Hardly irrelevant. If you give a polish man SOCIAL welfare relative to the amount he would get in his own country, he would not survive.

    he would at home thou.


  • #150
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    You obviously have no understanding of the word fiscal . And as I live in Fingal know what a positive and siverse place it is.

    The same way west Dublin became diverse. A truckload of investors started throwing up property everywhere they could and rented them back to the social.

    But hey, f*ck the cost to the taxpayer, right? The "diversity" is worth it!


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  • #151
    SWL
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭SWL


    Prodigious wrote: »
    Your ideology reminds me of several dictators. How about some compassion and respect for all humans? Asylum seekers do not come for the craic, they are generally fleeing war torn or famine stricken countries.

    Asylum seekers should come from war torn countries but in Ireland they do not, in fact I guarantee you that 100% of Irish people irrespective of their views have no problem supporting (with housing welfare, education opportunities) genuine asylum seekers in controlled numbers. That is not the case in Ireland; the fourth highest minority group in Ireland are Nigerians, higher than the combinedtotal number of some EU countries that have had access to Ireland since 1973 and 1992, and it is beyond comical.

    Ireland will do anything to be loved its my biggest pet hate about the Country, if that means providing social housing to every citizen from every country in the world then so be it, given the restrictions on non-EU visa I am surprised so many qualify for social housing, no Irish politician has the balls to even debate the issue of mass immigration, too late for Cameron and the UK their Country has changed.


    My partner who works aboard (and lived here for 8 years with me) refuses to visit me in Ireland, she has been adamant that we move home to Sweden especially if we are starting a family and I finally agreed, over the last six weeks I have finally realised she was right all along, Ireland is going nowhere it simply going around in circles, its not a Country run for its citizens, same faces, same policies, same outcome, same emigration, same fools left running the show making the same mistakes over and over.

    25% of the new borns are foreign born and people still cannot discuss the negatives associated with mass immigration, only the positive can be discussed of which there are many.

    Anyway it’s not longer my problem I won’t be paying for it or paying for the mistakes to support bondholder etc. Possibly my last post on boards as I fly home on Monday so Slan.


This discussion has been closed.
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