Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

KeithAFC · 18-09-2011 4:15pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

says the poster who is constantly rambling on about 'the protestant people of uilster', such hypocrisy

Wanted to get the thread back on topic.

Coillte_Bhoy · 18-09-2011 4:17pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Wanted to get the thread back on topic.

Should you not be off celebrating instead of hanging around here? I've an excuse, i'm pissed off at the result and looking for some aggro.

KeithAFC · 18-09-2011 4:22pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Should you not be off celebrating instead of hanging around here? I've an excuse, i'm pissed off at the result and looking for some aggro.

Watching the Utd Chelsea game. It's been a great day though.

So what is up with the wage news with Mcguinness?

Coillte_Bhoy · 18-09-2011 4:29pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Watching the Utd Chelsea game. It's been a great day though.

So what is up with the wage news with Mcguinness?

Ye totally deserved it, could have been 6 or 7. MMG going tot take just the average industrial wage in the unlikely event of him being elected.

crucamim · 18-09-2011 7:07pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Surely the recent troubles in NI were between Irish Republican paramilitaries, Loyalist paramilitaries, and the security forces (Police & Army), Yes! most combatants would have professed to be of one variety of Christianity or another, but I don't think that Protestants generally hated Catholics, or that all Catholics hated Protestants.

No. The bulk of the people murdered by Protestant paramilitaries were uninvolved Catholics.

You are entitled to your view that Protestants generally did not hate Catholics - but it is not an opinion which I share.

crucamim · 18-09-2011 7:21pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think the sectarianism on display is vile

That is rather like the man who jumped into the pond and complained about getting wet. If you do not want to hear or read sectarianism, do not get involved in a discussion about the history of Northern Ireland.

I must add that I am not sure what is the topic of this thread. I thought that it was about Martin McGuinness being a candidate in the presidential election of Eire. If it had remained that, I would not have posted on this thread because I think that the politics of the Eire Republic should be left to the people of the Eire Republic. But certain posters used the thread to attack the Ulster Catholic struggle against tyranny. And that is no business of any Eireperson.

Sermons against sectarianism are highly provocative when preached by someone who can have had little opportunity to practise what he preaches. Please leave us poor oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland to do our own thing in our own province. And I apologise for Martin McGuinness interfering in the political life of your country. But I have no control over him. Honestly, I have no control over him.

sparkling sea · 18-09-2011 7:36pm

crucamim wrote: »

That is rather like the man who jumped into the pond and complained about getting wet. If you do not want to hear or read sectarianism, do not get involved in a discussion about the history of Northern Ireland.

I must add that I am not sure what is the topic of this thread. I thought that it was about Martin McGuinness being a candidate in the presidential election of Eire. If it had remained that, I would not have posted on this thread because I think that the politics of the Eire Republic should be left to the people of the Eire Republic. But certain posters used the thread to attack the Ulster Catholic struggle against tyranny. And that is no business of any Eireperson.

Sermons against sectarianism are highly provocative when preached by someone who can have had little opportunity to practise what he preaches. Please leave us poor oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland to do our own thing in our own province. And I apologise for Martin McGuinness interfering in the political life of your country. But I have no control over him. Honestly, I have no control over him.

The Eire thing is comical

- thanks for the apologies though - the man has acted in an extremely disloyal way to the voters in his own country - unfortunately our record on voting for chancers shows enough people in the Republic might be just desparate enough or stupid enough to fall for another chancer like McGuiness.
The defintion of stupid: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result - come on people less not be fooled again

Liam Byrne · 18-09-2011 7:51pm

crucamim wrote: »

No. The bulk of the people murdered by Protestant paramilitaries were uninvolved Catholics.

You are entitled to your view that Protestants generally did not hate Catholics - but it is not an opinion which I share.

And what do you think in relation to the many, many uninvolved Catholics that were murdered by the IRA ?

Does that make you hate the IRA in the same way as you hate Protestant paramilitaries, since it is - or at least, should be, the exact same reasoning ?

crucamim · 18-09-2011 8:14pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"And what do you think in relation to the many, many uninvolved Catholics that were murdered by the IRA?"

Can you give me the name of an uninvolved Catholic of Northern Ireland who was murdered by the IRA?

"Does that make you hate the IRA in the same way as you hate Protestant paramilitaries, since it is - or at least, should be, the exact same reasoning?"

No, it would not. The IRA never hurt me. The Protestants did.

Liam Byrne · 18-09-2011 8:34pm

crucamim wrote: »

Can you give me the name of an uninvolved Catholic of Northern Ireland who was murdered by the IRA?

I'd have to check the guest list of a few hotels in Warrington, and probably check to see who the IRA arbitrarily decided to execute in their kangaroo courts, since - as many people have stated in relation to McGuinness - those people weren't tried or convicted in a real court of justice either.

But to be honest given your other line in your post, there's no point; you have stated yourself that you are perfectly happy to support murder as long as it doesn't hurt you, which means that I have no inclination or point in discussing anything with you further.

It's the equivalent of stating that you're OK with rape as long as it isn't you getting raped, which is so sickening that it's beyond comprehension.

On the basis of that last line, ignore has been clicked, so don't bother replying.

crucamim · 18-09-2011 9:24pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'd have to check the guest list of a few hotels in Warrington, and probably check to see who the IRA arbitrarily decided to execute in their kangaroo courts, since - as many people have stated in relation to McGuinness - those people weren't tried or convicted in a real court of justice either.

But to be honest given your other line in your post, there's no point; you have stated yourself that you are perfectly happy to support murder as long as it doesn't hurt you, which means that I have no inclination or point in discussing anything with you further.

It's the equivalent of stating that you're OK with rape as long as it isn't you getting raped, which is so sickening that it's beyond comprehension.

On the basis of that last line, ignore has been clicked, so don't bother replying.

Another ill-mannered Eireperson who does not like an Ulster Catholic answering back.

tombliboo83 · 18-09-2011 10:57pm

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad that we have a representative of a people from a different state seeking election for the presidency of the Republic of Ireland..McGuinness is such a loyal representative!!To think that a provo could be the commander in chief of our "cold free state" army and Gardai (whom the IRA have killed) is sickening. How stupid do Sinn Fein think we are - a bunch of murderers!!!!

crucamim · 18-09-2011 11:58pm

tombliboo83 wrote: »

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad that we have a representative of a people from a different state seeking election for the presidency of the Republic of Ireland..McGuinness is such a loyal representative!!To think that a provo could be the commander in chief of our "cold free state" army and Gardai (whom the IRA have killed) is sickening. How stupid do Sinn Fein think we are - a bunch of murderers!!!!

Please refrain from passing judgement on the oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland and on the Catholic freedom fighters of Northern Ireland. Thank you.

P.S. I share your reservations about Sinn Fein contesting elections in Eire

Zubeneschamali · 19-09-2011 8:53am

crucamim wrote: »

Please refrain from passing judgement on the oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland and on the Catholic freedom fighters of Northern Ireland.

No.

KeithAFC · 19-09-2011 8:57am

crucamim wrote: »

Please refrain from passing judgement on the oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland and on the Catholic freedom fighters of Northern Ireland. Thank you.

P.S. I share your reservations about Sinn Fein contesting elections in Eire

You have very partitionist views.

jonniebgood1 · 19-09-2011 9:04am

crucamim wrote: »

Please refrain from passing judgement on the oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland and on the Catholic freedom fighters of Northern Ireland. Thank you.

You are not living in the 1960's.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 19-09-2011 9:06am

crucamim wrote: »

Please refrain from passing judgement on the oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland and on the Catholic freedom fighters of Northern Ireland. Thank you.

P.S. I share your reservations about Sinn Fein contesting elections in Eire

So you would say that pira was a sectarian organisation you also ask in an earlier post about innocent RC's killed by your so called freedom fighter I am pretty sure bombs cannot discriminate between RC and Protestant

Raskolnikov · 19-09-2011 9:09am

I don't see the point of McGuinness running - he simply just cannot win.

Zubeneschamali · 19-09-2011 9:23am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I don't see the point of McGuinness running - he simply just cannot win.

It's not about winning, it's about taking over as the Opposition from the dying Fianna Fáil.

cardwizzard · 19-09-2011 9:27am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I don't see the point of McGuinness running - he simply just cannot win.

Thats why it is called a vote.

ardmacha · 19-09-2011 9:36am

P.S. I share your reservations about Sinn Fein contesting elections in Eire

Where do you think they should contest elections, France?

Raskolnikov · 19-09-2011 9:36am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It's not about winning, it's about taking over as the Opposition from the dying Fianna Fáil.

Ireland doesn't have an opposition. Fine Gael and Labour have taken power and continued on exactly the same course as Fianna Fáil did. It's as if the ghost of Brian Lenihan still has his hands on the levers even after death.

There is just no way Sinn Féin are going to take over from Fianna Fáil as the main opposition. Trust me, by the time we're into 2013 and unemployment is still at 15% with the government trying to put a levy on medicine for sick orphans, people will flock back to Fianna Fáil. Elections, opinion polls, just about every barometer shows that Sinn Féin support in Ireland has a high water mark of about ~10%.

Zubeneschamali · 19-09-2011 9:46am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Elections, opinion polls, just about every barometer shows that Sinn Féin support in Ireland has a high water mark of about ~10%.

Marty will do a lot better than that, which is the whole point: to set a new high water mark.

walrusgumble · 19-09-2011 10:04am

dulpit wrote: »

Taking aside everything about McGuinness, and just looking solely at his role of Deputy First Minister. What does it say to all members of the Assembly (Unionists in particular) when he decides he wants to run for president of a different jurisdiction.

I don't think he will win, so will he simply step aside from the role for 6 weeks then come straight back into the job?

Aim is to ensure to its supporters, that Sinn Féin is serious about a United Ireland, something everyone is aware of. I fail to see how its any different than a Dáiler running for Presidency. Dev went straight from the Dáil to the Áras. Mary McAleese, though worked in Trinity Dublin (and Previously RTE) was also a Northern yet no one had issues with this (well a small section of partionist idiots tried to do an Austin Currie - but there you go) THe Presidency is a symbolic head of the Nation, and not just the State (of 26) She / He represents Irish people where ever they are in the world, Sure Mary Robinson got that one right.

How many would whinge if say Niall O'Dowd (someone who actually did alot of work to help Irish in America, and helped in the Northern Ireland Peace Process) wanted to run for Presidency? McGuinness is an Irish citizen, no more or less than any Southerners, Residency issues are irrelevant. If Sinn Féin had a more credible, experienced candidate from the South, the Southern contingent would definitely have nominated them and not a Northern. But that is not the case. People would make no comments whatsoever about Jurisdiction is Seamus Heaney or John Hume ran. (two very credible candidates)

As for a current office holder running:

It is no different than say Pat the Cope Gallagher deciding to run for the Dáil, and give up his European Parliament seat, only to be asked again to later run for EP because FF don't have a credible candidate. Imagine, he has caused to by elections (the Dáil and EP - Well, EP I do not think went to the public)

Again, Sean T O'Kelly and Dev went straight from Dail to Aras. Paddy Hillery went straight from the Commission to the Aras (at time when he acted as Commissioner for a very important area at the time - SOcial Welfare)

Gay Mitchell is currently holding an EP seat, does that not say much for the his attitude towards his roles.(in fairness there is questions of whether he wanted it or not) Mitchell too will be going back to Bruseels (more than happy to do so) after this election.

walrusgumble · 19-09-2011 10:09am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Ireland doesn't have an opposition. Fine Gael and Labour have taken power and continued on exactly the same course as Fianna Fáil did. It's as if the ghost of Brian Lenihan still has his hands on the levers even after death.

There is just no way Sinn Féin are going to take over from Fianna Fáil as the main opposition. Trust me, by the time we're into 2013 and unemployment is still at 15% with the government trying to put a levy on medicine for sick orphans, people will flock back to Fianna Fáil. Elections, opinion polls, just about every barometer shows that Sinn Féin support in Ireland has a high water mark of about ~10%.

I fully agree and accept that Fianna Fáil are not dead yet, in the sense that they could not do any worse than they did and that the government parties WILL loose votes at the next Election. Michael Martin may take a more left wing attituded, trying to go back to Fianna Fáil Roots.

But, who is to say that Sinn Féin are that left wing? Its arguable that they might be no different to Fianna Fáil.

Again, as someone says, never say never in politics. One big reason for hosility towards Sinn Féin is its past that some people just can't bear to let go. Its now irrelevant. In time, its politics and economic policies might change and become more credible in the eyes of middle Ireland. Alternatively , it may provide a real left wing alternative. Who knows? I would imagine that Gerry Adams would wished that he was 10 years younger, because provided they don't go into "split" country, they have a formidable machine.

dulpit · 19-09-2011 10:17am

Am I right in saying that Martin McGuinness will not be able to vote in this election?

fryup · 19-09-2011 10:53am

if david norris has to pull out over a letter than was written years ago...........than how the hell can a man with a checkered past like martin mcguiness be in the race to begin with

i just can't get my head around it

walrusgumble · 19-09-2011 10:55am

dulpit wrote: »

Am I right in saying that Martin McGuinness will not be able to vote in this election?

He does not reside in the SOuth, so yes. I think Mary McAleese could not vote either - assuming for themselves. Ridiculous. Even the North Unionists should have a vote on the Presidency

What is the point?

dulpit · 19-09-2011 11:49am

walrusgumble wrote: »

He does not reside in the SOuth, so yes. I think Mary McAleese could not vote either - assuming for themselves. Ridiculous. Even the North Unionists should have a vote on the Presidency

What is the point?

All I am saying is that isn't it weird that he isn't eligible to vote, but is able to run? I think that if you're going in front of an electorate you should be part of it, no?

If they change the rules (i'm not in favour of it, but that's just me) then that's fairy nuf, but as of right now it is strange...

HellsAngel · 19-09-2011 12:10pm

crucamim wrote: »

That is rather like the man who jumped into the pond and complained about getting wet. If you do not want to hear or read sectarianism, do not get involved in a discussion about the history of Northern Ireland.

I must add that I am not sure what is the topic of this thread. I thought that it was about Martin McGuinness being a candidate in the presidential election of Eire. If it had remained that, I would not have posted on this thread because I think that the politics of the Eire Republic should be left to the people of the Eire Republic. But certain posters used the thread to attack the Ulster Catholic struggle against tyranny. And that is no business of any Eireperson.

Sermons against sectarianism are highly provocative when preached by someone who can have had little opportunity to practise what he preaches. Please leave us poor oppressed Catholic people of Northern Ireland to do our own thing in our own province. And I apologise for Martin McGuinness interfering in the political life of your country. But I have no control over him. Honestly, I have no control over him.

One of the things that makes me laugh about unionists is that they tell us in the south we should mind our own business - and this on .ie forums such as boards, politics.ie and :eek:

- 3 of Ulster's county's are in the ROI if you hadn't noticed.
- 100,000's of nationalists in the six counties hold Irish passports.
- Our present president is from Belfast.
- Sinn Fein are elected on both sides of the border.

HellsAngel · 19-09-2011 12:14pm

sparkling sea wrote: »

The Eire thing is comical - thanks for the apologies though - the man has acted in an extremely disloyal way to the voters in his own country - unfortunately our record on voting for chancers shows enough people in the Republic might be just desparate enough or stupid enough to fall for another chancer like McGuiness.
The defintion of stupid: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result - come on people less not be fooled again

With the exception of Mary Robinson, all President's so far have been FF, how is electing a SFer "doing the same thing over and over "

Zubeneschamali · 19-09-2011 12:26pm

HellsAngel wrote: »

With the exception of Mary Robinson, all President's so far have been FF, how is electing a SFer "doing the same thing over and over "

Eh, Douglas Hyde, the very first President?

HellsAngel · 19-09-2011 12:44pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Eh, Douglas Hyde, the very first President?

According to wiki -

Hyde was chosen after inter-party negotiations as the first President of Ireland, to which he was elected unopposed. He was selected for a number of reasons:

Both the Taoiseach, Éamon de Valera, and the Leader of the Opposition, W. T. Cosgrave, admired him;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Hyde#Nomination

KeithAFC · 19-09-2011 12:50pm

HellsAngel wrote: »

One of the things that makes me laugh about unionists is that they tell us in the south we should mind our own business - and this on .ie forums such as boards, politics.ie and :eek:

- 3 of Ulster's county's are in the ROI if you hadn't noticed.
- 100,000's of nationalists in the six counties hold Irish passports.
- Our present president is from Belfast.
- Sinn Fein are elected on both sides of the border.

Which is a shame. Would be better with a United 9 county independent Ulster but what can you do. 6 is fine in the UK. Martin running for president is a sign that he has most likely done all he can in Northern Ireland.

HellsAngel · 19-09-2011 12:52pm

Interesting perspective from the Belfast Telegraph (main unionist inclined paper) -

" Sinn Fein handled the nomination process professionally and in marked contrast to other contenders. .....McGuinness is the best possible candidate the party could have run.......His past as an IRA leader cannot be ignored and will be a turn-off for some. But he will also draw support from those looking for a protest vote. A sizeable amount of the population is opposed to the Republic's IMF-EU bailout. "

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/irish-presidential-race-dont-write-off-martin-mcguinness-skys-the-limit-for-this-outsider-16051454.html#ixzz1YOmS42VF

Zubeneschamali · 19-09-2011 12:54pm

Both the Taoiseach, Éamon de Valera, and the Leader of the Opposition, W. T. Cosgrave, admired him;

Not a FFer, so?

Starokan · 19-09-2011 1:02pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I don't see the point of McGuinness running - he simply just cannot win.

He is not totally out of it, couple the sf vote with a lot of the ff vote which i think he will get and you have a genuine candidate. I dont think he will win but he will not do badly overall.

I would imagine the whole point is to take Sinn Fein even further into mainstream politics. There is no doubt he will be the focal point of all discussions in the coming weeks, he is the most interesting character from a media point of view (assuming norris does not re enter he race).

McGuinness's past is already well documented, no one will be surprised by anything new that emerges. His role in the peace process has made him extremely popular . Sinn Fein and Martin McGuinness have nothing to lose by running in this election.

Liam Byrne · 19-09-2011 1:19pm

dulpit wrote: »

walrusgumble wrote: »

He does not reside in the SOuth, so yes. I think Mary McAleese could not vote either - assuming for themselves. Ridiculous. Even the North Unionists should have a vote on the Presidency

What is the point?

All I am saying is that isn't it weird that he isn't eligible to vote, but is able to run? I think that if you're going in front of an electorate you should be part of it, no?

If they change the rules (i'm not in favour of it, but that's just me) then that's fairy nuf, but as of right now it is strange...

I'm hoping he doesn't win, but in fairness to him the above applies to not just him, and wasn't raised as an issue re McAleese.

So let's at least try to stick to actual issues related to him, rather than create ones that people were perfectly happy to ignore before - and in fact praised as a sign of a mature Ireland at the time.

crucamim · 19-09-2011 1:20pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

You have very partitionist views.

Indeed, I have. I would like Sinn Fein (or the SDLP) to change its name to "The Catholic Freedom Party" and seek a devolved government within the UK for the Catholic areas of Northern Ireland.

There are 2 nations in Ireland and the minority nation, the Prod 20%, has a right to self-determination.

There are 2 nations in Northern Ireland and the minority nation, the Catholic 40%, has a right to self-determination and an even greater right to self-administration.

The enemy of the Catholic people of Northern Ireland is not the British army, the British people or the British government. Our enemies are the Protestants of Northern Ireland, especially the Presbyterians.

crucamim · 19-09-2011 1:22pm

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

You are not living in the 1960's.

The evil that men do lives after them.

vellocet · 19-09-2011 1:25pm

crucamim wrote: »

Indeed, I have. I would like Sinn Fein (or the SDLP) to change its name to "The Catholic Freedom Party" and seek a devolved government within the UK for the Catholic areas of Northern Ireland.

There are 2 nations in Ireland and the minority nation, the Prod 20%, has a right to self-determination.

There are 2 nations in Northern Ireland and the minority nation, the Catholic 40%, has a right to self-determination and an even greater right to self-administration.

The enemy of the Catholic people of Northern Ireland is not the British army, the British people or the British government. Our enemies are the Protestants of Northern Ireland, especially the Presbyterians.

Brilliant. This is the best fishing trip I have seen in ages.

KeithAFC · 19-09-2011 1:30pm

vellocet wrote: »

Brilliant. This is the best fishing trip I have seen in ages.

Why? He is entitled to such views.

dulpit · 19-09-2011 1:30pm

crucamim wrote: »

Indeed, I have. I would like Sinn Fein (or the SDLP) to change its name to "The Catholic Freedom Party" and seek a devolved government within the UK for the Catholic areas of Northern Ireland.

There are 2 nations in Ireland and the minority nation, the Prod 20%, has a right to self-determination.

There are 2 nations in Northern Ireland and the minority nation, the Catholic 40%, has a right to self-determination and an even greater right to self-administration.

The enemy of the Catholic people of Northern Ireland is not the British army, the British people or the British government. Our enemies are the Protestants of Northern Ireland, especially the Presbyterians.

Oh dear...

crucamim · 19-09-2011 1:35pm

vellocet wrote: »

Brilliant.

Thank you. I am glad that, at long last, my brilliance has been recognised. You are my first disciple.

Bullseye1 · 19-09-2011 1:38pm

If we are going to chose another politican from the north I'd prefer John Hume.

Liam Byrne · 19-09-2011 1:40pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

vellocet wrote: »

Brilliant. This is the best fishing trip I have seen in ages.

Why? He is entitled to such views.

Er, yeah, and the KKK are entitled to theirs too.

Most decent people judge others by their actions, not by stuff they had no control over like where they were born, their colour or their religion.

And the catholic church is hardly a bastion of decency either......the enemy of a catholic boy isn't a protestant, it's the priest raping him with the blessing of the bishop and the pope.

* might be slightly stereotypical but at least it doesn't write off an entire group of people for no reason

vellocet · 19-09-2011 1:40pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

If we are going to chose another politican from the north I'd prefer John Hume.

Alas, JH is losing his battle with the booze.

vellocet · 19-09-2011 1:42pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why? He is entitled to such views.

I think that went over your head.

I strongly doubt they are in fact his views, more likely an attempt at a wind up.

KeithAFC · 19-09-2011 1:48pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Er, yeah, and the KKK are entitled to theirs too.

Most decent people judge others by their actions, not by stuff they had no control over like where they were born, their colour or their religion.

And the catholic church is hardly a bastion of decency either......the enemy of a catholic boy isn't a protestant, it's the priest raping him with the blessing of the bishop and the pope.

* might be slightly stereotypical but at least it doesn't write off an entire group of people for no reason

I agree with you but IF that is his genuine view, then he is entitled to it. I agree with you on the Pope though.

vellocet · 19-09-2011 1:50pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

I agree with you but IF that is his genuine view, then he is entitled to it. I agree with you on the Pope though.

But conversely, IF it is his view, we are entitled to rip him to shreds.

Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

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