Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

11-04-2011 10:26pm

Christ.

Even though you're presenting some ridiculous reasoning.

Jones has played 6 games for Munster this season. Yes he has done well. Hopefully he can continue to do so, if he can keep the form up, he has an excellent chance at the 15 jersey given how stretched we are with injuries.

But the Form Fullback in Ireland is Adam D'Arcy, not Felix Jones.

The fact of the matter is that anyone who can put together a good run of performances will be able to challenge for the 15 jersey.

Writing off anyone at this stage is tantamount to blindness.

Also @Sin a Bhfuil, the differences between Earls' and Fitzgerald's injuries, and respective layoffs are incredible. Fitzgerald's injury affects mobility, speed and worst of all confidence. Earls' wasn't reportedly serious. They are not comparable.

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 10:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Christ.

Even though you're presenting some ridiculous reasoning.

Jones has played 6 games for Munster this season. Yes he has done well. Hopefully he can continue to do so, if he can keep the form up, he has an excellent chance at the 15 jersey given how stretched we are with injuries.

But the Form Fullback in Ireland is Adam D'Arcy, not Felix Jones.

The fact of the matter is that anyone who can put together a good run of performances will be able to challenge for the 15 jersey.

Writing off anyone at this stage is tantamount to blindness.

Jones (who lets not forget is coming back from 2 career threatening injuries) has played 6 games for Munster this season and looks way better at fullback than Luke Fitz. who has played double the number of games.

Lets wait and see if D'Arcy recovers from costing his team dearly against Northampton and/or if he intends staying in Ireland next season. D'Arcy has a better chance than Luke as at least he will be the starting fullback for Ulster.

I don't think Fitz, Kearney (because of Nacewa/injury) or Murphy because of his injury have much chance of getting a decent run at fullback before the end of the season.

Hoping that Luke, Kearney & Murphy will somehow come good before the end of the season wouldn't be the brightest thing to do either.

11-04-2011 10:44pm

Why is it "Let's Wait" for other players but
"Plump" for Jones?

This is bizarre.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 11-04-2011 10:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Christ.

Even though you're presenting some ridiculous reasoning.

Jones has played 6 games for Munster this season. Yes he has done well. Hopefully he can continue to do so, if he can keep the form up, he has an excellent chance at the 15 jersey given how stretched we are with injuries.

But the Form Fullback in Ireland is Adam D'Arcy, not Felix Jones.

The fact of the matter is that anyone who can put together a good run of performances will be able to challenge for the 15 jersey.

Writing off anyone at this stage is tantamount to blindness.

Also @Sin a Bhfuil, the differences between Earls' and Fitzgerald's injuries, and respective layoffs are incredible. Fitzgerald's injury affects mobility, speed and worst of all confidence. Earls' wasn't reportedly serious. They are not comparable.

Jones has missed the last 2 years with much more serious injuries than Fitz had, yet he has hit the ground running. POC was back at his best after ~5 games after being out for a year. Flannery has played little to no rugby in the last 2 years, yet his 25mins vs. Ulster were still the best by any Irish hooker this season. (I know that they are all Munster players, but they are the best examples)

Fitz. has been making very basic errors that are nothing down to the injury itself; he is overrunning passes, knocking on the ball etc. He is very low on confidence and shouldn't be playing at this level at present.

He should have been sent down to AIL level for a few games to gain confidence then reintroduced to Leinster through the A team. He wasn't ready for international rugby, but he was the one that was confident/cocky enough to fancy himself as a 15.

I can fully understand you defending him though, I would do the same for Earls/Murray or any of the youngsters coming through in Munster.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 11-04-2011 11:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it "Let's Wait" for other players but
"Plump" for Jones?

This is bizarre.

Much of the hype surrounding him is from the performances at Ireland A level.

The hype is there, as it is well known that he is a talent and we are extremely weak at 15 unless Schmidt can work his magic on Kearney. He also has a great chance (provided he takes his chance) of not only making the squad but, making the starting 15 for the big matches.

11-04-2011 11:08pm

I'm actually not defending Luke. I think he was thrown in at the deep end when he was nowhere near ready, as did half if not more of the forum!

I'm saying that with 6 months to go, that 15 jersey is one of the most if not the most "up for grabs" jersey going in the Ireland squad.

I'm also saying that judging players on 5/6 games with 6 months to go until the squad plays is fairly premature.

I'm including in this prematurity the OTT reaction to Jones' decent return. The OTT reaction to Fitz not falling straight back into World Beating form, and this seemingly insane blindspot that some posters have for the two FBs whom both have had more gametime than the other two suggestions put together this season which are Duffy (who's been fantastic by all accounts) and D'Arcy (who I'd assume's only encounter with many of you was the vision of his failing at the weekend).

In essence, tone it down on the Jones for the World Cup banners, don't order the Jones 15 jerseys just yet. There's a long long way to go yet, and there are plenty of players willing to compete for that 15 slot.

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 11:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it "Let's Wait" for other players but
"Plump" for Jones?

This is bizarre.

I haven't just 'plumped' for Jones. Right now he has a better chance of getting time at fullback because he (along with D'Arcy) are the only two who are actually playing fullback at the moment.

Its a 'wait & see' for the rest to see if they actually recover from their injuries, recover form, get gametime in the fullback position in the next 6 weeks or so before the end of the season.

11-04-2011 11:16pm

I'm out. It is pointless trying to have rational debate on here.

To Clarify

I find it utterly bizarre that we are saying that Jones, with 6 performances under his belt, is trusted to remain on an upward schedule until the WC.

While

We must wait and see if D'Arcy will "regain form" after one costly mistake in a HEC. (though he has been excellent all season)
We see if Duffy can remain steady as a rock after his short layoff

We're not having a debate on an equal footing here. For some people it's unfortunately "My Players" vs "The Rest".

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 11:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm out. It is pointless trying to have rational debate on here.

Fair enough - sorry if you don't get my rational.

PhatPiggins · 11-04-2011 11:45pm

My brain hurts. What's this thread about?

profitius · 12-04-2011 12:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm actually not defending Luke. I think he was thrown in at the deep end when he was nowhere near ready, as did half if not more of the forum!

Agreed.

emmert02 wrote:

I'm saying that with 6 months to go, that 15 jersey is one of the most if not the most "up for grabs" jersey going in the Ireland squad.

Agreed.

Kate Harsh Lightning wrote:

I'm also saying that judging players on 5/6 games with 6 months to go until the squad plays is fairly premature.

I believe this is your main point here but I don't think people are judging him on 5/6 (or less) games. He has already proved that he has the talent at fullback and he hasn't put a foot wrong since coming back from injury.

PhatPiggins · 12-04-2011 12:07am

I don't know when he has Prof because he played little or no decent rugby last season and was an academy player the season before that. Lets be honest 75% of the posters singing his praises are judging him on the past 5 games.

There's no doubting he's got talent but as emmet pointed out he's done nothing against a really good team,yet. Problem for him is that at most he's going to face to two notch teams in games that matter this season.

Is this enough to earn a WC spot?

12-04-2011 12:27am

It seems that some fans are expecting the best of the players that represent their teams, while are expecting the worst of players that play for not their teams.

That's all that it is.

I don't think there's much point trying to debate with the posters that are guilty of this. Its fine to voice a totally biased belief if that's what you think in your Team Thread, but if you can't remain impartial I don't think people should bother posting in this thread.

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 12:32am

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I don't know when he has Prof because he played little or no decent rugby last season and was an academy player the season before that. Lets be honest 75% of the posters singing his praises are judging him on the past 5 games.

There's no doubting he's got talent but as emmet pointed out he's done nothing against a really good team,yet. Problem for him is that at most he's going to face to two notch teams in games that matter this season.

Is this enough to earn a WC spot?

I don't think he would be under consideration except the other fullback options are very limited at the moment through injury and form. Kidney mentioned during the 6Ns that it was a pity he was injured (so he obviously rates him). Compare his come back from serious injury to Luke's comeback.

Jones will get to play as fullback in at least two more top notch games than Kearney, Luke or Murphy at fullback this season.

Jones got picked for Ireland A in the Churchill Winning Cup team pretty much straight out of the Leinster Academy (one Magners game).

He also won an U20 Grand Slam.

Anthony Foley singled him out for having a chance to make the world cup squad even though he had just played a Munster "A" game. He didn't suggest Denis Hurley or Johne Murphy, two more senior players would make it who can play fullback.

*by the way, he has missed 2 seasons through injury, one of them career threatening. Fairplay to him for coming back from those playing as well as he is playing.

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 12:45am

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems that some fans are expecting the best of the players that represent their teams, while are expecting the worst of players that play for not their teams.

That's all that it is.

I don't think there's much point trying to debate with the posters that are guilty of this. Its fine to voice a totally biased belief if that's what you think in your Team Thread, but if you can't remain impartial I don't think people should bother posting in this thread.

Speak for yourself here about what you expect for the various players. I certainly don't expect the worst, but where injured, you have to be realistic about their chances of being fit in time to get a few games before the end of the season in the fullback position.

How can you expect any of them to perform if they are injured or not getting to play in the fullback position?

Luke got a load of chances at fullback and it just isn't working out for him. I've said I think he will go to the world cup as a wing or a centre (even though his form is not good at the moment). How is that not expecting the best for him?).

Kearney has a knee injury with not a word about when he will be back playing. He could be out for a year. I hope he isn't.

Murphy is hoping that he will get one game by the end of the season.

Why all the expectation that Jones is going to fail. Why so dismissive of his chance of playing himself into the world cup squad. Why not give him as many chances as Luke has had up to now. Its not as if Luke is being dropped to play him.

12-04-2011 12:47am

Find me ONE post where I said Jones was set to fail.
Find me ONE post where I said Jones doesn't have a chance to get to the World Cup.
Find me ONE post where I said Luke Fitz is a better choice than Jones.

You're being utterly ridiculous at this stage. You need to see through the red goggles if you want anyone to listen to you on here.

All I've posted is asking for some sense of realism, and impartiality. If you are unable to do that, I don't think you should be allowed post in here.

PhatPiggins · 12-04-2011 12:59am

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

I don't think he would be under consideration except the other fullback options are very limited at the moment through injury and form. Kidney mentioned during the 6Ns that it was a pity he was injured (so he obviously rates him). Compare his come back from serious injury to Luke's comeback.

Jones will get to play as fullback in at least two more top notch games than Kearney, Luke or Murphy at fullback this season.

Jones got picked for Ireland A in the Churchill Winning Cup team pretty much straight out of the Leinster Academy (one Magners game).

He also won an U20 Grand Slam.

Anthony Foley singled him out for having a chance to make the world cup squad even though he had just played a Munster "A" game. He didn't suggest Denis Hurley or Johne Murphy, two more senior players would make it who can play fullback.

*by the way, he has missed 2 seasons through injury, one of them career threatening. Fairplay to him for coming back from those playing as well as he is playing.

Kearney is a shoe in no matter how little rugby he plays so I don't see any point in including him in your post.

Foley was asked about Jones, he didn't volunteer the opinion and wasn't asked about Murphy or Hurley. The first didn't play in the game in mention and the second is injured. Above all he's hardly going to say negative things about a young player coming back from injury.

Kidney rates him and he doesn't rate Fitzgerald!!! Yeah right.

Fair play to him indeed but by simply repeating the same points over an over again doesn't make them any closer to being relevant.

I'm bored of this circular reasoning.

Leamy or McLaughlin?

I'd go with McLaughlin

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 1:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

Find me ONE post where I said Jones was set to fail.
Find me ONE post where I said Jones doesn't have a chance to get to the World Cup.
Find me ONE post where I said Luke Fitz is a better choice than Jones.

You're being utterly ridiculous at this stage. You need to see through the red goggles if you want anyone to listen to you on here.

All I've posted is asking for some sense of realism, and impartiality. If you are unable to do that, I don't think you should be allowed post in here.

You are the one assigning motives (provincial bias) as to why we think that Felix Jones has A CHANCE (not we are not putting him on the plane yet) of making the rugby world cup squad mainly because of injuries to Kearney who would be first choice fullback but has a knee injury and Murphy, who has a broken leg.

The fact that Jones is exceptionally good at counteracting which is in vogue at the moment, also helps his case and is an aspect of Kearney game that he needs to improve on.

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 1:24am

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Kearney is a shoe in no matter how little rugby he plays so I don't see any point in including him in your post.

First of all he has a knee injury and there are there is no mention when he will be back. Second, he is great under a highball, but he isn't good at counteracting.

Foley was asked about Jones, he didn't volunteer the opinion and wasn't asked about Murphy or Hurley. The first didn't play in the game in mention and the second is injured. Above all he's hardly going to say negative things about a young player coming back from injury.

Foley didn't have to mention the world cup. He could have said lets see how he gets on in this game.

Kidney rates him and he doesn't rate Fitzgerald!!! Yeah right.

I think Kidney rates both of them (though he did drop Fitz for Earls in the 6Ns).

Leamy or McLaughlin?

I'd go with McLaughlin

Surely the question will be McLaughlin or O'Brien starting for Leinster (when Jennings comes back).

12-04-2011 1:26am

Sin a Bhfuil, by aaaaany chance are you related to / know of / are thehighground?

Anyway, I've said loads on all the matters above, and wont be rehashing my opinion repeatedly as if I've changed tack.

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 1:37am

Deleted User wrote: »

Sin a Bhfuil, by aaaaany chance are you related to / know of / are thehighground?

Anyway, I've said loads on all the matters above, and wont be rehashing my opinion repeatedly as if I've changed tack.

I know of thehighground - posted a lot on the free to air discussion but doesn't seem to post here anymore.

I don't understand what you mean when you say 'rehashing my opinion repeatedly as if I've changed tack.'

12-04-2011 1:40am

I wont be posting anything further on this as I've said everything I feel is worthwhile saying.

AngeGal · 12-04-2011 1:51am

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

First of all he has a knee injury and there are there is no mention when he will be back. Second, he is great under a highball, but he isn't good at counteracting.

Foley didn't have to mention the world cup. He could have said lets see how he gets on in this game.

I think Kidney rates both of them (though he did drop Fitz for Earls in the 6Ns).

Surely the question will be McLaughlin or O'Brien starting for Leinster (when Jennings comes back).

Kearney on form is our best full back unquestionably and I'm not from Munster or Leinster so no bias here! He is prone to the odd mistake through overconfidence more than anything else I think. He is a strong counter attacker, he just needs to be encouraged to do it more often. Bowe is obviously a certainty I would think, that leaves a difficult choice between Fitz and Earls, it would be Fitz for me personally but either way it's a brilliant dilema to have.

I think O'Brien offers more ball carrying ability than Mclaughlin.

totallegend · 12-04-2011 8:19am

Maybe we'll move on from the FB issue...

For reasons best known to himself, Hugh Farrelly would bring Willie Falloon
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/as-it-stands-2616089.html

Other than that his selection looks ok...

thomond2006 · 12-04-2011 8:35am

There's no way it will be a 17-13 split, that's far too few backs.

Also Donnacha Ryan ahead of MOD/Tuohy? Is he having a laugh?

bamboozle · 12-04-2011 9:04am

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

I don't think he would be under consideration except the other fullback options are very limited at the moment through injury and form. Kidney mentioned during the 6Ns that it was a pity he was injured (so he obviously rates him). Compare his come back from serious injury to Luke's comeback.

Jones will get to play as fullback in at least two more top notch games than Kearney, Luke or Murphy at fullback this season.

Jones got picked for Ireland A in the Churchill Winning Cup team pretty much straight out of the Leinster Academy (one Magners game).

He also won an U20 Grand Slam.

Anthony Foley singled him out for having a chance to make the world cup squad even though he had just played a Munster "A" game. He didn't suggest Denis Hurley or Johne Murphy, two more senior players would make it who can play fullback.

*by the way, he has missed 2 seasons through injury, one of them career threatening. Fairplay to him for coming back from those playing as well as he is playing.

in 2009 most fit professional rugby players who werent selected for the Lions or the Irish tour ended up on the Churchill cup tour.

Lets just take a step back, Jones has yet to start a HC game, he's yet to make an Irish squad, lets just give him a bit of time to establish himself as a starter for Munster.
Jones didnt miss two seasons through injury, he played for Munster last season and also played in the AIL with Shannon in the first part of the season.
i certainly think he's got great ability, however i wonder if his body is capable of a sustained run of games in professional rugby, hopefully if he stays fit he'll have a long career ahead of him.
In saying all this i'm looking forward to seeing the likes of irish lads such as Jones, Murray, Keatley, Earls, Zebo in the Munster backline next season.

bamboozle · 12-04-2011 9:15am

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Kearney is a shoe in no matter how little rugby he plays so I don't see any point in including him in your post.

Foley was asked about Jones, he didn't volunteer the opinion and wasn't asked about Murphy or Hurley. The first didn't play in the game in mention and the second is injured. Above all he's hardly going to say negative things about a young player coming back from injury.

Kidney rates him and he doesn't rate Fitzgerald!!! Yeah right.

Fair play to him indeed but by simply repeating the same points over an over again doesn't make them any closer to being relevant.

I'm bored of this circular reasoning.

Leamy or McLaughlin?

I'd go with McLaughlin

I've been a huge fan of Leamy but this season he's been consistently average, i wonder if all his injuries have caught up on him.
As Munster seem to be playing Leamy at 6 he'd be up against Ferris, SOB & Locky for 6 in the world cup squad, i dont think he can be considered for 8 ahead of Heaslip of SOB so to be honest i cant see logic in bringing Leamy (based on this season's form, maybe a good rest over summer and he'll be back to his old self)

i'd be selecting Heaslip, SOB, Ferris, Wallace, Jennings, McLaughlin and if any of these are injured i'd look at Ruddock or Muldoon ahead of Leamy.

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 11:25am

bamboozle wrote: »

in 2009 most fit professional rugby players who werent selected for the Lions or the Irish tour ended up on the Churchill cup tour.

Lets just take a step back, Jones has yet to start a HC game, he's yet to make an Irish squad, lets just give him a bit of time to establish himself as a starter for Munster.
Jones didnt miss two seasons through injury, he played for Munster last season and also played in the AIL with Shannon in the first part of the season.
i certainly think he's got great ability, however i wonder if his body is capable of a sustained run of games in professional rugby, hopefully if he stays fit he'll have a long career ahead of him.
In saying all this i'm looking forward to seeing the likes of irish lads such as Jones, Murray, Keatley, Earls, Zebo in the Munster backline next season.

The Churchill Cup was a development squad with mainly uncapped players involved. Capped players that missed the Lions tour played against Canada and the US.

Jones was picked at fullback ahead of Denis Hurley who is a Heineken Cup winning fullback.

His first injury was a freak accident and I suppose he had little chance of surviving a clash with Johnny O'Connor in his second injury.

You are correct when you say he didn't miss two seasons, he missed most of two seasons through injury. To be exact, he has played 12 games for Munster in his two seasons there - three of them in the last three weeks. All most people here are suggesting is that if he does well at this end of the season (6 more games and a possiblity of 2 more after that), he should be well in with a CHANCE to make the squad for the world cup warm-up games considering the injuries and competition to start at fullback that the existing Ireland starting fullbacks have.

CouchSmart · 12-04-2011 11:43am

Have to say all this talk of Jones is so premature. He has a 'chance', as someone mentioned above, but I'd rate that chance of making the WC as being similar to D. Kearney, Conway and Morris - terribly unlikely.

bamboozle · 12-04-2011 12:04pm

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

The Churchill Cup was a development squad with mainly uncapped players involved. Capped players that missed the Lions tour played against Canada and the US.

Jones was picked at fullback ahead of Denis Hurley who is a Heineken Cup winning fullback.

His first injury was a freak accident and I suppose he had little chance of surviving a clash with Johnny O'Connor in his second injury.

You are correct when you say he didn't miss two seasons, he missed most of two seasons through injury. To be exact, he has played 12 games for Munster in his two seasons there - three of them in the last three weeks. All most people here are suggesting is that if he does well at this end of the season (6 more games and a possiblity of 2 more after that), he should be well in with a CHANCE to make the squad for the world cup warm-up games considering the injuries and competition to start at fullback that the existing Ireland starting fullbacks have.

that's my point re the Churchill Cup, you were saying Jones got selected from the Leinster Academy into the squad like it was a major achievement which it wasnt really. in the summer of 2009 irish caps were being handed out like confetti, Ian Whitten (straight from Ulster's academy), Darren Cave, Keatley, Caldwell etc all received caps.

On the plus side if Jones cements the Munster full back position it will mean Earls will get much more time on the wing where he will continue to improve, he was being shunted around far too much for his own good.

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 12:42pm

bamboozle wrote: »

that's my point re the Churchill Cup, you were saying Jones got selected from the Leinster Academy into the squad like it was a major achievement which it wasnt really. in the summer of 2009 irish caps were being handed out like confetti, Ian Whitten (straight from Ulster's academy), Darren Cave, Keatley, Caldwell etc all received caps.

On the plus side if Jones cements the Munster full back position it will mean Earls will get much more time on the wing where he will continue to improve, he was being shunted around far too much for his own good.

The team that started in the Final against the English Saxons had none of the players you mention on the team. Starting ahead of Denis Hurley & Johne Murphy (both Heineken Cup players) was an achievement for someone who had only played 40 mins of Magners rugby and played for a small club like Seapoint.

IRELAND 'A': Felix Jones (Seapoint/Leinster); Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster), Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster), Keith Matthews (Buccaneers/Connacht), Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers); Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster); Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Neil Best (Northampton Saints) (capt), Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster).

Replacements used: Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) for Henry (44 mins), John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht) for O'Connor (52), Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution/Munster) for Cronin (63), Bryan Young (Ballymena/Ulster) for Healy, Trevor Hogan (Blackrock College/Leinster) for Toner, Simon Keogh (Old Belvedere/Leinster) for Boss, James Downey (Northampton Saints) for Matthews (all 75).

Mr.Applepie · 12-04-2011 1:01pm

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

The team that started in the Final against the English Saxons had none of the players you mention on the team. Starting ahead of Denis Hurley & Johne Murphy (both Heineken Cup players) was an achievement for someone who had only played 40 mins of Magners rugby and played for a small club like Seapoint.

IRELAND 'A': Felix Jones (Seapoint/Leinster); Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster), Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster), Keith Matthews (Buccaneers/Connacht), Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers);

How is a FB playing at FB ahead of two wingers an achievement. Both Hurley & Murphy started that game so the question at who's expense did he start?

He's a good player but still very inexperienced. I think if he had the full season he might have stood a chance of making the squad but the WC will come too soon for him.

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 1:25pm

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

How is a FB playing at FB ahead of two wingers an achievement. Both Hurley & Murphy started that game so the question at who's expense did he start?

He's a good player but still very inexperienced. I think if he had the full season he might have stood a chance of making the squad but the WC will come too soon for him.

Denis Hurley won a Heineken Cup medal at fullback for Munster (defeating Toulouse in the final).

Felix Jones was one of the most inexperienced players to make that team (and it wasn't made up of provincial academy players as suggested by bambozzle).

bamboozle · 12-04-2011 1:30pm

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

The team that started in the Final against the English Saxons had none of the players you mention on the team. Starting ahead of Denis Hurley & Johne Murphy (both Heineken Cup players) was an achievement for someone who had only played 40 mins of Magners rugby and played for a small club like Seapoint.

IRELAND 'A': Felix Jones (Seapoint/Leinster); Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster), Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster), Keith Matthews (Buccaneers/Connacht), Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers); Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster); Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht), Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Neil Best (Northampton Saints) (capt), Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster).

Replacements used: Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) for Henry (44 mins), John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht) for O'Connor (52), Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution/Munster) for Cronin (63), Bryan Young (Ballymena/Ulster) for Healy, Trevor Hogan (Blackrock College/Leinster) for Toner, Simon Keogh (Old Belvedere/Leinster) for Boss, James Downey (Northampton Saints) for Matthews (all 75).

in my post i said 'Irish caps' those lads i mentioned Whitten, Cave, Keatley and Caldwell all received full Irish caps that summer and were on the full national squad tour of north america.

Mr.Applepie · 12-04-2011 1:45pm

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

Denis Hurley won a Heineken Cup medal at fullback for Munster (defeating Toulouse in the final).

Felix Jones was one of the most inexperienced players to make that team (and it wasn't made up of provincial academy players as suggested by bambozzle).

I think it's well established at this stage that Hurley is a winger and not a FB. By the looks of things Hurley was being played in his best position in that game so it's not as if Jones beat him to the jersey.

Say there are 9 spots for the centre's/backs. This is who I think will go:

1. BOD
2. D'Arcy
3. McFadden
4. P. Wallace
5. Bowe
6. Earls
7. Trimble
8. Kearney/Murphy
9. Fitzgerald

Who do you think will go?

LuckyGent88 · 12-04-2011 2:01pm

bamboozle wrote: »

I've been a huge fan of Leamy but this season he's been consistently average, i wonder if all his injuries have caught up on him.
As Munster seem to be playing Leamy at 6 he'd be up against Ferris, SOB & Locky for 6 in the world cup squad, i dont think he can be considered for 8 ahead of Heaslip of SOB so to be honest i cant see logic in bringing Leamy (based on this season's form, maybe a good rest over summer and he'll be back to his old self)

i'd be selecting Heaslip, SOB, Ferris, Wallace, Jennings, McLaughlin and if any of these are injured i'd look at Ruddock or Muldoon ahead of Leamy.

Totally agree with you there on the Leamy selection. Has had a poor season for us in Munster, hasnt carried that great and has given away a lot of penalties too. I would put James Coughlin ahead of him at the moment in terms of Munster players anyway. He has no chance of getting 8 on the Irish team with the players suggested and if McLoughlin keeps fit and progressing for rest of season i would bring him. He is a much different player to Leamy which is what we need in the WC especially in the lineout.

PhatPiggins · 12-04-2011 2:07pm

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Totally agree with you there on the Leamy selection. Has had a poor season for us in Munster, hasnt carried that great and has given away a lot of penalties too. I would put James Coughlin ahead of him at the moment in terms of Munster players anyway. He has no chance of getting 8 on the Irish team with the players suggested and if McLoughlin keeps fit and progressing for rest of season i would bring him. He is a much different player to Leamy which is what we need in the WC especially in the lineout.

I think we can safely in pencil SOB/Wallace/Heaslip/Ferris(surely be fit by then). How many backrowers will travel, 5 at most. For the sake of something different I'd go with Jennings.

Coughlin has been terrific again this season, glad they left him at 8 where he belongs.

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 2:08pm

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

I think it's well established at this stage that Hurley is a winger and not a FB. By the looks of things Hurley was being played in his best position in that game so it's not as if Jones beat him to the jersey.

It wasn't back then though. Last game of the season that Hurley started was at fullback for Munster.

Say there are 9 spots for the centre's/backs. This is who I think will go:

1. BOD
2. D'Arcy
3. McFadden
4. P. Wallace
5. Bowe
6. Earls
7. Trimble
8. Kearney/Murphy
9. Fitzgerald

Who do you think will go?

Centres: BOD, D'Arcy (backup - Wallace, Earls, McFaddan?)
Wings: Earls, Bowe & Trimble (backup - Fitzgerald?)
fullback: Kearney, Murphy (backup Duffy? & Jones?).

I think it will be a choice between Fitzgerald and McFadden. If either of Kearney or Murphy don't make it (and there is a possibility that neither will be fit) Jones will make it along with Duffy.

I think Fitzgerald has a lot of work to do in the next couple of weeks to earn his spot over McFadden.

totallegend · 12-04-2011 2:11pm

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

Say there are 9 spots for the centre's/backs. This is who I think will go:

1. BOD
2. D'Arcy
3. McFadden
4. P. Wallace
5. Bowe
6. Earls
7. Trimble
8. Kearney/Murphy
9. Fitzgerald

Who do you think will go?

Agree; on the basis of a 16-14 forwards-backs split, and assuming three scrum-halves, ROG and JS will go, that leaves us nine places.

Firstly, we'll assume that everyone is fit:
BOD/D'Arcy/Bowe/Earls/Trimble are all locked in. I think Fitzgerald is a cert, as is Kearney.
So that leaves us two from Wallace, Murphy and McFadden; I reckon Wallace will go as emergency cover for out-half and Murphy to take the last spot. McFadden's probable lack of game time in the next few weeks will scupper him, but Murphy is definitely vulnerable, especially if Earls gets a bit more game time at FB during the warm-up games.

Shane Horgan will be overlooked completely :mad:

Mr.Applepie · 12-04-2011 2:26pm

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

It wasn't back then though. Last game of the season that Hurley started was at fullback for Munster.

That doesn't mean he was any use at FB or our you saying he forgot how to play FB?

Centres: BOD, D'Arcy (backup - Wallace, Earls, McFaddan?)
Wings: Earls, Bowe & Trimble (backup - Fitzgerald?)
fullback: Kearney, Murphy (backup Duffy? & Jones?).

I think it will be a choice between Fitzgerald and McFadden. If either of Kearney or Murphy don't make it (and there is a possibility that neither will be fit) Jones will make it along with Duffy.

I think Fitzgerald has a lot of work to do in the next couple of weeks to earn his spot over McFadden.

So you're only bringing 7 backs?

To put this into context let's compare Niall Morris & Felix Jones

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/profiles/index.php?player=33307&includeref=dynamic

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/squadprofiles.php?player=33240&includeref=dynamic

Both are full back/wingers
Both have played 6 games this season.
Morris has scored 3 tries to Jones's 1.

On this season's form I'd have Morris in the WC squad!

Sin a bhfuil · 12-04-2011 3:12pm

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

That doesn't mean he was any use at FB or our you saying he forgot how to play FB?

Back then, he was considered a fullback (when Kidney was coach). McGahan has moved him to the wing and put Paul Warwick to fullback.

So you're only bringing 7 backs?

I thought you wanted only first 7 outside backs. You've got my pecking order though if more are brought.

To put this into context let's compare Niall Morris & Felix Jones

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/profiles/index.php?player=33307&includeref=dynamic

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/squadprofiles.php?player=33240&includeref=dynamic

Both are full back/wingers
Both have played 6 games this season.
Morris has scored 3 tries to Jones's 1.

On this season's form I'd have Morris in the WC squad!

All but 15 minutes of his gametime was on the wing, not fullback and nearly all (bar Scarlet) against bottom of the Magners teams. Leinster lost two of those games as well! Unfortunately for Niall, he won't get much more gametime this season at fullback with Nacewa, Kearney & Luke ahead of him in the pecking order. Only reason I think Jones could be in the picture (along with Gavin Duffy) is because he is a specialist full back who can actually get gametime in the position.

12-04-2011 3:19pm

Adam D'Arcy. Starting FB in a team that's above Leinster in the ML and made the KO stages of the HEC. Irish qualified. Started there for most if not all games this season.

Criminally ignored by many a poster.

Niall Morris wont be going to the WC. Felix Jones may, but he has an awful long way to go before I'd even rank him as an outsider.

Mr.Applepie · 12-04-2011 3:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Adam D'Arcy. Starting FB in a team that's above Leinster in the ML and made the KO stages of the HEC. Irish qualified. Started there for most if not all games this season.

Criminally ignored by many a poster.

Niall Morris wont be going to the WC. Felix Jones may, but he has an awful long way to go before I'd even rank him as an outsider.

Niall Morris was joke/example of Jones' lack of experience. I would agree that if a FB spot comes up it should be either Duffy or D'Arcy. My preference would be for Duffy.

Firstly, we'll assume that everyone is fit:
BOD/D'Arcy/Bowe/Earls/Trimble are all locked in. I think Fitzgerald is a cert, as is Kearney.
So that leaves us two from Wallace, Murphy and McFadden; I reckon Wallace will go as emergency cover for out-half and Murphy to take the last spot. McFadden's probable lack of game time in the next few weeks will scupper him, but Murphy is definitely vulnerable, especially if Earls gets a bit more game time at FB during the warm-up games.

Shane Horgan will be overlooked completely

I think Murphy might not make it as we already have a lot of players that can cover FB quite well.

My personal back 9 would be:

1. BOD
2. D'Arcy
3. McFadden
4. Bowe
5. Earls
6. Trimble
7. Kearney
8. Fitzgerald
9. Murphy/Shaggy

val_jester · 12-04-2011 3:56pm

Adam D'arcy is not good enough for the Irish team at the moment he might get better in the next few years but he makes too many mistakes at magners league/heineken cup level to play international rugby. Ulster have spent the last year looking for a full back in the super 15 and they signed jared payne recently and he is likely to start their next season. People are overlooking him for a reason.

If Kearney is fit he will be given gametime in the warm ups to get back to match fitnesss. Despite what everyone is saying on here he was playing really well before he got injured and is Kidney's first choice.

I think its unlikely that Kidney will bring two specialist full backs, when Earls, Bowe, and Fitzgerald can cover there and Kidney can only bring a limited number of backs.

But if he does bring two full backs I would prefer he brings Jones as I'd have the most confidence in him defensively and he is the youngest and I'd like to think we'd have confidence in youth. Murphy is past and was playing poorly before injury and Duffy has been injured and is prone to defensive errors.

12-04-2011 4:04pm

It's like trying to explain to the Sun that the Moon lights up the world at night, but the Sun refuses to believe as it's only around during the day.

Writing off D'Arcy (Consistently good over the course of the seaon) while persisting with the "Jones is going to be great" is beyond redgogglism imo.
Writing of Duffy (Who has been consistently solid and defensively sound over the course of an entire career!) while persisting with the "Jones is going to be great" is beyond redgogglism too.

Get out of the Jones camp and into the Ireland camp please and thank you.

totallegend · 12-04-2011 4:17pm

val_jester wrote: »

Adam D'arcy is not good enough for the Irish team at the moment he might get better in the next few years but he makes too many mistakes at magners league/heineken cup level to play international rugby. Ulster have spent the last year looking for a full back in the super 15 and they signed jared payne recently and he is likely to start their next season. People are overlooking him for a reason.

If Kearney is fit he will be given gametime in the warm ups to get back to match fitnesss. Despite what everyone is saying on here he was playing really well before he got injured and is Kidney's first choice.

I think its unlikely that Kidney will bring two specialist full backs, when Earls, Bowe, and Fitzgerald can cover there and Kidney can only bring a limited number of backs.

But if he does bring two full backs I would prefer he brings Jones as I'd have the most confidence in him defensively and he is the youngest and I'd like to think we'd have confidence in youth. Murphy is past and was playing poorly before injury and Duffy has been injured and is prone to defensive errors.

We do have confidence in youth, we'll be bringing Earls and Fitzgerald, both of whom are actually younger by a few months than Jones and have a hell of a lot more experience.

Listen lads, I hope Felix Jones turns out to be a great player but to suggest he is remotely ready for the RWC is bananas. I really think it's worth repeating that he has never played in the Heineken Cup, let alone test level. Am I the only who sees how bizarre this idea is?

val_jester · 12-04-2011 4:20pm

I'm writing off D'arcy on the basis of having watched him a lot this season. He can be excellent at running the ball back but unfortunately he often gets isolated and loses possession due to taking the wrong decision. I'm not writing him off because I think Jones is better, I'm writing him off because at this stage of his development he is not good enough to play international rugby. The Ulster branch have also taken the view that he is not good enough to be first choice at a team hoping to win the Heineken Cup.

I may have been a bit harsh on Duffy, who was playing very well this season and last before he got injured, but whenever I think of him I can't forget the defensive howlers he makes in pressure games such as against Ulster last season when instead of tackling Cave he just let him run past him to score an easy try.

IMO if Jones continues to play as well as he has done in the last three games then he should be in with a chance of making the squad, but as I said earlier he is unlikely to make it as I believe Kidney will only bring one full back (Kearney).

12-04-2011 4:23pm

How can you possibly have seen enough of Adam D'Arcy to say this

I'm writing him off because at this stage of his development he is not good enough to play international rugby.

yet be able to think the opposite of Felix Jones?

Felix Jones has played 12 times in two seasons. RELAX

val_jester · 12-04-2011 4:24pm

totallegend wrote: »

We do have confidence in youth, we'll be bringing Earls and Fitzgerald, both of whom are actually younger by a few months than Jones and have a hell of a lot more experience.

Listen lads, I hope Felix Jones turns out to be a great player but to suggest he is remotely ready for the RWC is bananas. I really think it's worth repeating that he has never played in the Heineken Cup, let alone test level. Am I the only who sees how bizarre this idea is?

Wilkinson never played Heineken Cup Rugby before winning the world cup. If they are good enough they should go. And once again I'm not saying that Jones should go, but he should get a chance in the warms up to prove his worth IF is form stays good until the end of the season.

And if playing Heineken Cup is going to be a requirement before a player can be capped no young Irish player is going to go to Connacht, and Croinin wouldn't be going to the world cup despite being our second best hooker with Flannery injured.

Risteard · 12-04-2011 4:24pm

totallegend wrote: »

We do have confidence in youth, we'll be bringing Earls and Fitzgerald, both of whom are actually younger by a few months than Jones and have a hell of a lot more experience.

Listen lads, I hope Felix Jones turns out to be a great player but to suggest he is remotely ready for the RWC is bananas. I really think it's worth repeating that he has never played in the Heineken Cup, let alone test level. Am I the only who sees how bizarre this idea is?

Cronin has never played in the Heineken Cup either. Before this season Jonny Wilkinson had played 6 games in the HC.

It's good experience to have, sure, but it's shouldn't be a prerequisite for playing in the Irish team.

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