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Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful

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12357…14

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    #122
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The report has quite categorically stated that the British army was 100% responsible, and that there was no justification whatsoever for the deaths.

    So could you by any chance, stick on topic and acknowledge the elephant in the room.

    Perhaps you might have missed where I said "the report says the death of the marchers was entirely the fault of the soldiers. The report is damning in that regard. "

    Perhaps you also ignored where the report said
    "# Members of the official IRA fired a number of shots, though it was concluded it was the paratroopers who shot first.
    # Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, second in command of the provisional IRA in Derry in 1972, was 'probably armed with a Thompson submachine gun', and though it is possible he fired the weapon, this cannot be proved.

    The report concluded: 'He did not engage in any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire.'"

    It wasn't a justification for the soldiers opening fire but the IRA should still not have been there.


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    #123
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Perhaps you might have missed where I said "the report says the death of the marchers was entirely the fault of the soldiers. The report is damning in that regard. "


    I didn't ignore it, and it would have been fine in it's own, before you attempted to drag the IRA into the thread in yet another case of whataboutery. This is a discussion about Bloody Sunday. It is not a discussion about the IRA. If you wish to discuss the IRA, create a thread for it.


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    #124
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Perhaps you might have missed where I said "the report says the death of the marchers was entirely the fault of the soldiers. The report is damning in that regard. "

    Perhaps you also ignored where the report said



    It wasn't a justification for the soldiers opening fire but the IRA should still not have been there.

    And again, trying to drag the focus off the guilty. Why do you feel compelled to do this?


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    #125
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    That **** Maginnis on BBC now.


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    #126
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    It wasn't a justification for the soldiers opening fire but the IRA should still not have been there.

    But you are trying to make it into one or else you wouldn't have brought it up.


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    #127
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Mr "two birds with the one stone". No point in watching him at this stage - he's nothing new to say and he's retired. Yesterdays man, in many ways.


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    #128
    Byron85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭Byron85


    For those of you intent on bringing McGuinness into it:

    Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, second in command of the provisional IRA in Derry in 1972, was 'probably armed with a Thompson submachine gun', and though it is possible he fired the weapon, this cannot be proved.

    The report concluded: 'He did not engage in any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire.'


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    #129
    celticbest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭celticbest


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Yes I do. And SF/IRA were there on that day with guns and bombs although as the report says the death of the marchers was entirely the fault of the soldiers. The report is damning in that regard.

    The Truth comes out but at the end of the day it was still the IRA's fault even though they took no active part according to some on here :confused:
    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    The IRA did capitalise on the killings though and that cannot surely be doubted. They used it in a cynical recruiting drive which ended up in the murders of many more people. None of which justifies the actions of the soldiers but it is a point that has to be made. The killings on Bloody Sunday were not a justification for the IRA to go out and murder people.

    What was cynical about the IRA defending the people of the six counties against a foreign force in there home country?

    If it had not been for the IRA over the course of the troubles we would not be were we are now? If British soldiers were capable of murder in such a blanant way what else would they have done if the IRA did not stand up and fight back.

    In the long term we now have equality for all which is the very thing those innocent marchers were looking for in a peaceful way before the British Army decided to murdered them.

    Sadly something's need to happen in order for others to follow.

    It could have been all so different if it had not been for that day, if only the British government gave the marchers there simple demands, then maybe the darkest days of the troubles could have been avoided.......


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    #130
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    celticbest wrote: »
    What was cynical about the IRA defending the people of the six counties against a foreign force in there home country?
    Don't start that, the IRA was strengthened around that time for civil rights, not nationalism. Later that's the road it took but around the time of Bloody Sunday it was to defend themselves from, as far as they were concerned, the state, not a foreign state.


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    #131
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/northern_ireland/10320609.stm

    Army fired first shot

    Mr Cameron said:

    * No warning had been given to any civilians before the soldiers opened fire
    * None of the soldiers fired in response to attacks by petrol bombers or stone throwers
    * Some of those killed or injured were clearly fleeing or going to help those injured or dying
    * None of the casualties was posing a threat or doing anything that would justify their shooting
    * There was no point in trying to soften or equivocate - the events of Bloody Sunday were not justified
    * Many of the soldiers lied about their actions
    * What happened should never, ever have happened
    * Some members of the British armed forces acted wrongly
    * On behalf of the government and the country, he said he was "deeply sorry"
    * The events of Bloody Sunday were not premeditated
    * Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, Sinn Fein, was present at the time of the violence and "probably armed with a submachine gun" but did not engage in "any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire"


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    #132
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Good to see the facts out in the open now, everyone can now see what Bloody Sunday was: a massacre of innocent civilians, with zero justification.


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    #133
    gsxr1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭gsxr1


    The people that where killed where NOT in the IRA. They where the children and residents of the Bogside or where out marching for their basic civil rights.


    SIMPLE AS THAT.


    Today is NOT about the IRA.

    Its about justice for the INNOCENT victims.


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    #134
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Yes I do. And SF/IRA were there on that day with guns and bombs

    Eh, they lived/live there. You wanted them to take a day trip to Coleraine?


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    #135
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Now some people can get back to name calling, finger pointing and spitting. Awesome. We've come a long way.


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    #136
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    prinz wrote: »
    Now some people can get back to name calling, finger pointing and spitting. Awesome. We've come a long way.

    Great contribution thanks.

    I happen to be from Derry. I am not related to anyone who died or knew them but what I do know is that the hurt of the people of Derry goes very deep over this issue. To have your kin and neighbours killed was bad enough, worse was then to have them labelled as armed terrorists.

    The people of Derry did not ask for teh massive figure to be spent of telling everyone what they already knew. Widgery could have told the truth the first time around and none of this would have been necessary.

    Basically the people of Derry and the victims deserved this result, it is almost 40 years too late, but better than to not have it.


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    #137
    citytillidie
    Registered Users Posts: 22,017 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    holy crap the truth is out and some people still cant take the facts

    ******



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    #138
    nessie911
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭nessie911


    karma_ wrote: »
    Great contribution thanks.

    I happen to be from Derry. I am not related to anyone who died or knew them but what I do know is that the hurt of the people of Derry goes very deep over this issue. To have your kin and neighbours killed was bad enough, worse was then to have them labelled as armed terrorists.

    The people of Derry did not ask for teh massive figure to be spent of telling everyone what they already knew. Widgery could have told the truth the first time around and none of this would have been necessary.

    Basically the people of Derry and the victims deserved this result, it is almost 40 years too late, but better than to not have it.


    Well said. They did not ask for this and they deserve for the whole truth to come out. I can't imagine how hard it was for the families to be dealing with the death of a family member who was being called a terrorist, even tho they knew they were not. The truth could have been out 28 years ago if the lies were not told.


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    #139
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    "My primary thoughts today are with the thousands of innocent victims of the IRA who have never had justice, nor benefitted from any inquiry into why their loved ones died.
    "Thus today's jamboree over the Saville report throws into very sharp relief the unacceptable and perverse hierarchy of victims which the preferential treatment of 'Bloody Sunday' has created."
    - Jim Allister

    way to be a dick Jim

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/10322708.stm


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    #140
    who the fug
    Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    citytillidie wrote: »
    holy crap the truth is out and some people still cant take the facts


    Hang on I am still trying to recover from the fact , that they let the truth out


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    #141
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    karma_ wrote: »
    Basically the people of Derry and the victims deserved this result, it is almost 40 years too late, but better than to not have it.

    Indeedy. Don't dispute that for a second, I am glad the report is out, I am happy with the findings etc.

    What I am not suprised about are some posters who have posted here the same after the report as they would have before. So has any minute sense of closure occurred at all, apparently not for some, and that's sad.


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    #142
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    prinz wrote: »
    What I am not suprised about are some posters who have posted here the same after the report as they would have before. So has any minute sense of closure occurred at all, apparently not for some, and that's sad.

    Who cares?? This report isn't for a few lads on an internet forum, it's for the families of those murdered.


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    #143
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Personally I am very pleased with the report and in Particular Cameron's apology. Was pretty agog at that, was expecting a "regretful" type thing. Fair play, a huge step in the right direction. Huge.


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    #144
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    prinz wrote: »
    What I am not suprised about are some posters who have posted here the same after the report as they would have before. So has any minute sense of closure occurred at all, apparently not for some, and that's sad.

    So people who were genuinely angry and disappointed over the events on Bloody Sunday, who have now been proven right, should no longer feel just as angry or disappointed?


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    #145
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    sensibleken wrote: »
    "My primary thoughts today are with the thousands of innocent victims of the IRA who have never had justice, nor benefitted from any inquiry into why their loved ones died.
    "Thus today's jamboree over the Saville report throws into very sharp relief the unacceptable and perverse hierarchy of victims which the preferential treatment of 'Bloody Sunday' has created."
    - Jim Allister

    way to be a dick Jim

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/10322708.stm

    Way to hold the British military to the values and morality of the IRA, Jim. :(


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    #146
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Otacon wrote: »
    So people who were genuinely angry and disappointed over the events on Bloody Sunday, who have now been proven right, should no longer feel just as angry or disappointed?

    Essentially yes. They have been vindicated. Their loved ones have been vindicated. No amount of anger and disappointment is going to bring them back or change what happened.


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    #147
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Stephen Pollard, a solicitor representing the soldiers' who appeared before the Saville Inquiry tells BBC defence correspondent Jonathan Beale that Lord Saville does not have justification for his findings and accuses him of cherry-picking the evidence. He says that Lord Saville's conclusions are not sustained by proper analysis of the evidence. "There is just as much evidence for the opposite conclusion," he says.
    Thats from the BBC.

    Pure ****e.


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    #148
    Sofa King Great
    Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Sofa King Great


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Thats from the BBC.

    Pure ****e.

    What did you expect the Solicitor for the soldiers to say exactly?


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    #149
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Hope that ****er Widgery rots in hell

    Well done to the people of Derry for the long fight


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    #150
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    prinz wrote: »
    Essentially yes. They have been vindicated. Their loved ones have been vindicated. No amount of anger and disappointment is going to bring them back or change what happened.

    All we have today is the truth, not justice. Once the people responsible for this tragedy are behind bars, then there will be vindication.


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    #151
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Otacon wrote: »
    All we have today is the truth, not justice. Once the people responsible for this tragedy are behind bars, then there will be vindication.

    exactly!


    and the truth was known from the start anyway, well with anyone with an ounce of sense


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