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When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

KeRbDoG · 2014-01-31 19:08:22

Just starting a thread to see when we might actually see vectoring being enabled by Eircom on their eFibre/VDSL service. I've heard February but has anyone seen/heard anything more solid than that?

Comments

#102 28-02-2014 11:09am

crawler

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Vectoring went live this week in a few 10s of cabinets - this will continue to happen in phases over the coming weeks & months and ramp up quickly.

AFAIK all modems will get the required firmware before their cab goes live.

Not all lines will benefit from vectoring

Speeds uplifts wil be in the 20% - 40% on average where loops are short (300m or less)

I am sure ISPs will advise of what cabs go live to customers as they roll out

Should be 500 odd cabs done by mid march

0
#103 28-02-2014 11:51am

AmilcarAlho

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This has probably been asked, but can't seem to find it. Will vectoring allow for a few extra mbps to lines between 1000 and 1500 meters, or even extend that reach up to 2km?

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#104 28-02-2014 11:57am

Vico1612

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domeld wrote: »

See below

checked my software rev and am still on C172B211 - no sp08
Will keep an open eye ...

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#105 28-02-2014 12:09pm

crawler

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AmilcarAlho wrote: »

This has probably been asked, but can't seem to find it. Will vectoring allow for a few extra mbps to lines between 1000 and 1500 meters, or even extend that reach up to 2km?

Vectoring doenst really extend reach.

Unlikely to work at 1000 metres

Sorry to bring no smiles!

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#106 28-02-2014 1:05pm

SpaceTime

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Are you sure the modems need software upgrade? They're all specced for vectoring from the get go.

Also the Huawei vectoring technology (at least the version they keep promoting on their website ) can cope with legacy modems. So the cab could go live immediately.

I'm just wondering how it copes with ADSL2+ lines that are sharing the same bundles of cables. Not everyone is on the same DSLAM.

A large % of customers would still be on legacy exchange based products. For example all of Sky's customers!

I'm assuming it must only deal with the extra spectrum used by VDSL2 ?

It seems there are many flavours of vectoring technology though.

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#107 28-02-2014 2:59pm

Cork981

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SpaceTime wrote: »

Are you sure the modems need software upgrade? They're all specced for vectoring from the get go.

Also the Huawei vectoring technology (at least the version they keep promoting on their website ) can cope with legacy modems. So the cab could go live immediately.

I'm just wondering how it copes with ADSL2+ lines that are sharing the same bundles of cables. Not everyone is on the same DSLAM.

A large % of customers would still be on legacy exchange based products. For example all of Sky's customers!

I'm assuming it must only deal with the extra spectrum used by VDSL2 ?

It seems there are many flavours of vectoring technology though.

I assume it's since ADSL2 uses a max of 2.2mhz and the current vdsl2 profile uses 17mhz.

So there should be a minimal of crosstalk between the lines.

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#108 28-02-2014 3:02pm

crawler

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SpaceTime wrote: »

Are you sure the modems need software upgrade? They're all specced for vectoring from the get go.

Also the Huawei vectoring technology (at least the version they keep promoting on their website ) can cope with legacy modems. So the cab could go live immediately.

I'm just wondering how it copes with ADSL2+ lines that are sharing the same bundles of cables. Not everyone is on the same DSLAM.

A large % of customers would still be on legacy exchange based products. For example all of Sky's customers!

I'm assuming it must only deal with the extra spectrum used by VDSL2 ?

It seems there are many flavours of vectoring technology though.

All modems deployed by ISPs must support vectoring. Some need the software applied though (the chipset supports it) hence the update

As above - all modems have the right chipset to support VDSL vector since NGa launched so no issue there

VDSL and ADSL use differnet frequencies therefore not an issue ADSL and VDSL can co-exist using good planning

Sky dont sell VDSL currently. But regardless the answer above applies

There are differnet types of vectoring, system vectoring (current) , node level vectoring, independnat vectoring engines etc...

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#109 28-02-2014 4:40pm

SpaceTime

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Things are more complicated in networks where VDSL from the exchange was rolled out in recent years to older specs.

I know in Germany they migrated people off exchange-based VDSL products and onto cabinetized VDSL2.

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#110 28-02-2014 5:19pm

crawler

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No likey exchange launched VDSL. Bleugh. That said for those served from exchages it may help a little.

It's a mess though and because the loops are usually long is not real NGA...if VDSL is NGA at all.

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#111 28-02-2014 9:19pm

Praetorian

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No upgrade so far for me despite being told our cabinet was being updated. My stats haven't changed at all. Here is hoping it will happen

Line standard VDSL2
Channel type
None
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 71678
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 20479
Downstream SNR (dB) 9.2
Upstream SNR (dB) 10.5
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 5.9
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 1.7
Downstream output power (dBmV) 12.4
Upstream output power (dBmV) -18.2
Downstream CRC 0
Upstream CRC 0
Downstream FEC 0
Upstream FEC 0

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#112 28-02-2014 10:51pm

Cork981

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Praetorian wrote: »

No upgrade so far for me despite being told our cabinet was being updated. My stats haven't changed at all. Here is hoping it will happen

Line standard VDSL2
Channel type
None
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 71678
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 20479
Downstream SNR (dB) 9.2
Upstream SNR (dB) 10.5
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 5.9
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 1.7
Downstream output power (dBmV) 12.4
Upstream output power (dBmV) -18.2
Downstream CRC 0
Upstream CRC 0
Downstream FEC 0
Upstream FEC 0

That's a perfect line.

How close are you to your cabinet ?

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#113 03-03-2014 9:21pm

Praetorian

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Cork981 wrote: »

That's a perfect line.

How close are you to your cabinet ?

I'm not actually sure, as the line goes underneath a green or other houses to get to me, so it's around 100-190 metres depending where the ducting is routed.

It's certainly good though I had feared my line was well over 1km long. Still no sign of any stat changes.

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#114 03-03-2014 10:25pm

bloodyhawk

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I am hoping the vectoring will lower the ping times. That's the only reason i am really looking for an upgrade. Upload/download is plenty as it is.

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#115 04-03-2014 1:38am

fat-tony

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Vectoring is employed to improve the signal to noise ratio (SNR) on the local connection between your house and the local cabinet, thus allowing higher bandwidth. Shouldn't affect ping times.

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#116 04-03-2014 1:46am

SpaceTime

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Praetorian wrote: »

I'm not actually sure, as the line goes underneath a green or other houses to get to me, so it's around 100-190 metres depending where the ducting is routed.

It's certainly good though I had feared my line was well over 1km long. Still no sign of any stat changes.

In a lot (most) cases the lines will basically follow the roads/streets. Unlike ESB, P&T and Telecom Eireann never really had the same legal ability to run ducts or lines over or through private property so they didn't always take the most direct routes.

Crossing greens and stuff like that would be common though as it's most likely common ground / council property.

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#117 04-03-2014 8:38am

bloodyhawk

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Could someone tell me what this is? http://www.siliconrepublic.com/digital-21/item/34216-difsept13/

A key dimension of Eircom’s investment plan involves boosting international connectivity from 400Gbps to 5Tbps.
“That means a very low latency capability in the range of a 10 to 12 millisecond round trip.”

I saw this very long time ago and was always confusing it with vectoring haha noobie me, anyway
will it really deliver such a low ping times to us or whats the deal here?

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#118 04-03-2014 1:31pm

SpaceTime

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That's about more international connectivity and better core networks.

The two have to happen together as faster fibre access products and more multimedia streaming content means more bandwidth requirements.

Eircom also competes with BT, UPC, Vodafone, and various international fibre provoders and others who have their own international fibre routes.

It needs this to compete for wholesale business and 'big data' customers like data centres too.

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#119 05-03-2014 8:50pm

Nonoperational

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My Vodafone modem had a software update today. SNR increased by 0.2 so maybe vectoring, or maybe I am too far from the cabinet (my attenuation is 12.2). I now have an option on the modem status page to download a log of activated NAT sessions, anyone know what that's about?

Strangely, my downstream FEC errors are gone mad, but there are no CRC errors. Before today I got around 200 CRC errors per day with no FEC errors. Strange.

I'm getting around 3 downstream FEC errors per second, never had this before. Even getting some upstream FEC errors.

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#120 05-03-2014 9:09pm

Vico1612

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Nonoperational wrote: »

My Vodafone modem had a software update today. SNR increased by 0.2 so maybe vectoring, or maybe I am too far from the cabinet (my attenuation is 12.2). I now have an option on the modem status page to download a log of activated NAT sessions, anyone know what that's about?

Strangely, my downstream FEC errors are gone mad, but there are no CRC errors. Before today I got around 200 CRC errors per day with no FEC errors. Strange.

I'm getting around 3 downstream FEC errors per second, never had this before. Even getting some upstream FEC errors.

Same here ...
Updated from Software version 211 to 214 and FEC errors are through the roof
I also get the new NAT Session info .
Speeds seem ok.
Have posted on Talk to VF forum asking for change log of 214 firmware

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#121 05-03-2014 9:23pm

wheresmybeaver

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Does this software update go through if you have the modem in bridged mode? I cant access the native modem interface (while bridged) to be able to see the stats and version numbers.

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#122 05-03-2014 9:23pm

Nonoperational

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Vico1612 wrote: »

Same here ...
Updated from Software version 211 to 214 and FEC errors are through the roof
I also get the new NAT Session info .
Speeds seem ok.
Have posted on Talk to VF forum asking for change log of 214 firmware

Interesting. My connection is fine, no packet loss, 2ms jitter, good speeds.

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#123 05-03-2014 9:34pm

dxhound2005

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There were two guys working on an existing cab in the centre of Dundalk this evening. I asked them was it anything to do with Vectoring. They said No but vectoring was coming very soon, some measuring equipment had arrived in the local exchange. Sorry that's all a bit vague but at least they knew what vectoring was. I assume nobody has actually been upgraded yet or we would have seen the Speedtest results here.

I assume this is the newest firmware version for the Eircom F1000 modem?

Firmware Version: 1.00(AAHA.4)D0

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#124 05-03-2014 9:48pm

SpaceTime

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Seems to be what I have too : 1.00(AAHA.4)D0

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#125 05-03-2014 10:08pm

Praetorian

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My vodafone modem is also on the newer firmware and I'm also seeing a lot of fec errors like the others have reported here.

Disappointingly my stats have not improved, and I've noticed maybe related maybe not related, but some streaming issues on sky go (hd) and even some on other sites like gametrailers youtube etc.,

DSL synchronization status Up
DSL up time 19:57:29

Line Status
Help
Line standard VDSL2
Channel type
None
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 71672
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 20479
Downstream SNR (dB) 9.2
Upstream SNR (dB) 9.2
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 5.9
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 1.7
Downstream output power (dBmV) 12.4
Upstream output power (dBmV) -19.3
Downstream CRC 4
Upstream CRC 3
Downstream FEC 168523
Upstream FEC 32295

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#126 05-03-2014 10:20pm

Nonoperational

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That's actually very encouraging for me! You're not too far with an attenuation like that so I'd guess vectoring isn't on yet if you haven't benefited.

The FEC error thing is very strange. Must be just a change in the way the modem is reporting or something.

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#127 05-03-2014 10:27pm

swoofer

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you can access the VF modem just connect lan cable to pc.

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#128 05-03-2014 10:29pm

Nonoperational

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My ping has dropped from 24 to 22 too. My connection is actually performing better than ever.

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#129 05-03-2014 10:45pm

Vico1612

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Did another speedtest from newer laptop and ping is down to 23.

Gateway stats haven't changed in terms of speed

Line standard VDSL2
Channel type
None
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 71672
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 20479
Downstream SNR (dB) 19.5
Upstream SNR (dB) 9.8
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 6.1
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 1.6
Downstream output power (dBmV) 13.8
Upstream output power (dBmV) -18.6
Downstream CRC 0
Upstream CRC 24
Downstream FEC 77266
Upstream FEC 540139

0
#130 06-03-2014 1:43am

fat-tony

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I got the VF update also. Incredible increase in FEC errors also:
149167 downstream
60212 upstream

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#131 06-03-2014 10:11am

crawler

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For anyone with a modem in bridge mode, unlikely that the software will be applied as by definition you have bypassed the modem and terminated the PPP session on a device behind the modem - the modem is simply being used as a VDSL modulator. Why ISPs dont want you to bridge the modem and also shows why copper based VDSL/vectoring is far from perfect.

FEC errors - I would imagine this is simply reporting as Vectoring introduces lots of additional requirements on the modem...one I need to check up on myself

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#132 06-03-2014 12:49pm

tdonegan1990

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Hi folks
Quick question. I have a downstream line attenuation of 13.8dbm.
Eircom are sending 51197kbps down my line.
My attainable net data rate is 91.892.

Will I benefit from vectoring or am I to far from my local cabinet?

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#133 06-03-2014 3:09pm

crawler

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tdonegan1990 wrote: »

Hi folks
Quick question. I have a downstream line attenuation of 13.8dbm.
Eircom are sending 51197kbps down my line.
My attainable net data rate is 91.892.

Will I benefit from vectoring or am I to far from my local cabinet?

You are probably on the 50Mbps product profile. Vectoring will make no difference if you are but max obtainable will increase

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#134 07-03-2014 2:23am

Wils110

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My fibre profile is
102 down
20 up
Get about 80 wired 45-55 wireless.

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#135 07-03-2014 9:36am

crawler

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Looks like the FEC counter is just DSM counts as part of Vectoring and being included as part of the NEXT/FEXT count. Not impacting performance at all as far as I can tell and normal.

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#136 07-03-2014 8:47pm

Praetorian

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crawler wrote: »

Looks like the FEC counter is just DSM counts as part of Vectoring and being included as part of the NEXT/FEXT count. Not impacting performance at all as far as I can tell and normal.

Hopefully that's what it is. Misleading listing it the way they do however.

It's a little worrying for me that my modem has updated but my line isn't showing any better stats. Yet this fec issue.

DSL synchronization status Up
DSL up time 1 Days 21:42:55

Line Status
Help
Line standard VDSL2
Channel type
None
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 71672
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 20479
Downstream SNR (dB) 9.2
Upstream SNR (dB) 9.5
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 5.9
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 1.8
Downstream output power (dBmV) 12.4
Upstream output power (dBmV) -19.4
Downstream CRC 0
Upstream CRC 217
Downstream FEC 284184
Upstream FEC 219777

0

#137 07-03-2014 8:58pm

michaelotoole

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Just posting current stats to compare after vectoring... (told it will happen sometime today)

============================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 2 hours: 21 minutes
============================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.549 Mbps       71.812 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     20.479 Mbps       71.672 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        8.5 dB            9.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          4 ms              7 ms
          Transmit Power:      -16.3 dBm          14.3 dBm
           Receive Power:      -25.9 dBm           3.9 dBm
              Actual INP:        2.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        9.7 dB           10.3 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     28.429 Mbps       97.208 Mbps
============================================================================
      VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  2.3    11.5    16.6     N/A     7.3    15.8    24.7   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  2.3    11.1    15.2     N/A     8.4    15.7    24.6   
        SNR Margin(dB):  8.4     8.6     8.5     N/A     9.1     9.1     9.1   
   Transmit Power(dBm):-27.1   -18.0   -22.1     N/A    12.0     7.9     6.9   
============================================================================

Attainable Net Data Rate peaks at 110MB...

Distance from cabinet: ~30 meters (as the crow flies)...

#138 07-03-2014 9:15pm

fat-tony

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You're more than 30m from the cabinet with an attenuation of 10.3dB;)
I'm 350m from my local cabinet and I have an attenuation of 8.4dB and SNR of 13dB (although it was 14.8dB when first installed four months ago).
My SNR was at 17dB recently for about a day or so and I thought vectoring had been turned on, but no speed increase.

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#139 07-03-2014 10:06pm

michaelotoole

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I'm actually less than 30 meters much closer to 20... however... there's two more cabinets about 150/200 meters away...

I wonder if they connected me to one of the remoter cabinets as it's almost certain they have available slots due to their position?
...

Been doing a little calculations base on statistical analysis and it looks like I am between 160 and 170 meters from a cabinet which tallies with being connected to one of the remote cabinets...

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#140 07-03-2014 11:04pm

bloodyhawk

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Downstream 43.156 and upstream of 16.447? what in the world i am on the 70mb package have i been switched? i am going to ring eircom tomorrow...

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 5 hours: 28 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 16.447 Mbps 43.156 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 16.383 Mbps 43.009 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 14.5 dB 18.7 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: -13.7 dBm 11.2 dBm
Receive Power: -24.7 dBm -2.8 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 10.9 dB 13.9 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.376 Mbps 85.044 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 2.3 13.5 18.5 N/A 8.4 18.1 28.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 2.3 12.8 17.6 N/A 7.2 17.9 28.1
SNR Margin(dB): 14.5 14.4 14.5 N/A 18.7 18.8 18.7
Transmit Power(dBm):-25.1 -16.0 -18.7 N/A 3.4 7.8 6.9
============================================================================

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#141 07-03-2014 11:16pm

OneEightSeven

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bloodyhawk wrote: »

Downstream 43.156 and upstream of 16.447? what in the world i am on the 70mb package have i been switched? i am going to ring eircom tomorrow...

============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 5 hours: 28 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 16.447 Mbps 43.156 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 16.383 Mbps 43.009 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 14.5 dB 18.7 dB
Actual Delay: 4 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: -13.7 dBm 11.2 dBm
Receive Power: -24.7 dBm -2.8 dBm
Actual INP: 2.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 10.9 dB 13.9 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 28.376 Mbps 85.044 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 2.3 13.5 18.5 N/A 8.4 18.1 28.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 2.3 12.8 17.6 N/A 7.2 17.9 28.1
SNR Margin(dB): 14.5 14.4 14.5 N/A 18.7 18.8 18.7
Transmit Power(dBm):-25.1 -16.0 -18.7 N/A 3.4 7.8 6.9
============================================================================

How far away from the cabinet are you?

I seen your post on the stats thread. Huge drop in Attainable Net Data Rate.

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#142 07-03-2014 11:24pm

michaelotoole

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I'd wait till they implement vectoring... If what I've read so far is correct you should certainly get close to 70MB judging by your specs...

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#143 07-03-2014 11:47pm

bloodyhawk

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OneEightSeven wrote: »

How far away from the cabinet are you?

I seen your post on the stats thread. Huge drop in Attainable Net Data Rate.

Around 50 meters man.

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#144 07-03-2014 11:50pm

bloodyhawk

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michaelotoole wrote: »

I'd wait till they implement vectoring... If what I've read so far is correct you should certainly get close to 70MB judging by your specs...

Ill only get 70mb with vectoring? That does not make sence. if just couple of days ago I was getting 70 as it was? I wad hoping to get 100mb

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#145 08-03-2014 12:00am

OneEightSeven

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bloodyhawk wrote: »

Around 50 meters man.

It's quite bizarre. Your line attenuation improved but your speeds and attainable speeds (speeds with vectoring) dropped.

Your line attenuation on the 17-09-2013: 15.3 dB
Your line attenuation today: 13.9 dB

The lower that number, the better. A low number means you're close to the cabinet. A high number means you're far from the cabinet.

Yeah, just ring them and ask them to look at your stats.

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#146 08-03-2014 12:04am

bloodyhawk

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OneEightSeven wrote: »

How far away from the cabinet are you?

I seen your post on the stats thread. Huge drop in Attainable Net Data Rate.

Around 50 meters man.

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#147 08-03-2014 12:05am

michaelotoole

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@bloodyhawk

Ah well then maybe it's just a glitch... they were suppose to be introducing vectoring today/tonight... perhaps they are working in it...
To be honest it's all a bit of a mystery... I'm only 20/30 meters from a cabinet and I don't get 70... now I wonder if they actually connected me to the nearest cabinet...

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#148 08-03-2014 12:20am

Manc Red

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Where and who stated that vectoring would be enabled today?

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#149 08-03-2014 12:28am

domeld

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As far as I know they did not introduce new profiles. Even when vectoring will be turn on this will not change your profile. They may have trial in some places, but to get faster bb they need to change profile.

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#150 08-03-2014 1:25am

michaelotoole

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Posts: 64

One of the technician installing my broadband volunteered the info... he said it was to night, that's Friday 7th...
It's after midnight now and I didn't notice any changes... I guess he was wrong...

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#151 08-03-2014 2:26am

Nonoperational

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The last update to my modem happened at 03:45....

I'd be pretty certain vectoring hasn't happened yet for most. My SNR increased by about 10% in the last 2 days (at about 700M) but it's gone back to the usual now. There is definitely something going on in preparation but give it a while more before we jump to any conclusions.

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