Dublin school cancels workshop on homophobic bullying, saying “both sides should be r

spikeS · 27-01-2015 8:01pm

SW wrote: »

alternatively, a student might think that the school might take any report of bullying more seriously if they're taken a pro-active stance on homophobic bullying.

I am the opinion we don't need to treat lgbt students as lesser and weaker, and a inclusive talk could of talked about the issue without singling them out the fact they thought they needed a separate talk makes it seem like we don't think of lgbt students the same as everyone else

Luke92 · 27-01-2015 8:02pm

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Why do you (and also those that thanked you) feel that John Waters would be a suitable person to represent the 'unrepresented' here and argue in favour of homophobic bullying? John Waters is not a homophobe and nor has he ever expressed homophobic viewpoints, no matter what some idiot has to say on the Saturday Night Show. If you or anyone else has evidence to the contrary, lets hear it. Otherwise though, all you are doing by posting the above sly remark is indulging in the very thing which you appear to suggest you are opposed to: bullying.

Finally got around to registering. Mr Waters?

Donkey Oaty · 27-01-2015 8:03pm

NachoBusiness wrote: »

John Waters is not a homophobe and nor has he ever expressed homophobic viewpoints

While we're at it, Michelle Smith has never taken performance-enhancing drugs.

Lyaiera · 27-01-2015 8:07pm

spikeS wrote: »

I am the opinion we don't need to treat lgbt students as lesser and weaker, and a inclusive talk could of talked about the issue without singling them out the fact they thought they needed a separate talk makes it seem like we don't think of lgbt students the same as everyone else

As someone who falls under the LGBT rainbow I wouldn't feel singled out or separated if they talked about homophobia or transphobia. Just like I didn't feel singled out when they talked about Irish history in history class, and not just European history, or world history.

Irish Guitarist · 27-01-2015 8:08pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Would you get annoyed about using the term "racist bullying"?

Yes. Bullying is bullying. No need to put another word in front of the 'bullying' part. It just sends out the message that one groups feelings matter more than another.

If you stop a certain type of bullying the bullies will just move on to another target.

K4t · 27-01-2015 8:08pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The thing with phrases like 'homophobic bullying' is that it makes it sound like the problem is with the homophobic part and not the bullying.

This. Bullying is Bullying is Bullying.

Homophobic bullying workshops, while I understand have the best of intentions, are not the best way to go about stopping bullying, homophobic motivated or not. Teach students about homophobia and how it is misguided in the classrooms by all means and have anti-bullying workshops, but associating the two under the guise of homophobic bullying is not smart.

hotmail.com wrote: »

Your attitude is part of the problem.

What problem? He's against bullying, in any way shape or form. That is the solution.

Gatling · 27-01-2015 8:10pm

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Why do you (and also those that thanked you) feel that John Waters would be a suitable person to represent the 'unrepresented' here and argue in favour of homophobic bullying? John Waters is not a homophobe and nor has he ever expressed homophobic viewpoints, no matter what some idiot has to say on the Saturday Night Show. If you or anyone else has evidence to the contrary, lets hear it. Otherwise though, all you are doing by posting the above sly remark is indulging in the very thing which you appear to suggest you are opposed to: bullying.

Don't get the pantis in a bunch

hotmail.com · 27-01-2015 8:11pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Yes. Bullying is bullying. No need to put another word in front of the 'bullying' part. It just sends out the message that one groups feelings matter more than another.

If you stop a certain type of bullying the bullies will just move on to another target.

No one is disputing that bullying is bullying. Anti-homophobic bullying people aren't trying to monopolise the term. They are merely bringing attention to the fact of one prevalent form of bullying - homophobic bullying.

I don't understand how anyone could oppose that. Surely this is a good thing and those that have been bullied would support it.

Little CuChulainn · 27-01-2015 8:12pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

But in large schools some parents are going to complain no matter what, since the background is so broad. (leftwing, rightwing, religious, active atheist, gay, straight) No matter what a school does or say someone is going to get offended. Impossible situation.

D*ck move cancelling the group. Maybe the group said something overtly political last time they were in the school? Or the school is running their own workshops on bullying rather than pay fees to 3rd party groups. The whole thing is bizarre though. Or some sort of miscommunication, dropping the ball, etc.

Or maybe the caretaker was sick and there was nobody to set up the venue. The fact is, other than a comment from an unidentified person, there is nothing to justify calling the principal a dick.

spikeS · 27-01-2015 8:15pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

No one is disputing that bullying is bullying. Anti-homophobic bullying people aren't trying to monopolise the term. They are merely bringing attention to the fact of one prevalent form of bullying - homophobic bullying.

But it's not fair for the school to have that workshop then not have an anti racist, anti misogyny, anti traveller workshop.

It would be easier just to have the one workshop to cover all, it would cost a fortune and time to cover them all equally if you separate them out

Donkey Oaty · 27-01-2015 8:15pm

This bullying is actually silencing people and it is preventing any kind of open discussion people are actually afraid to go out now and march on this issue and you are smeared at and ridiculed and particularly at a time of the internet and the way that they use the internet to bully and harass people and demonise people and I think that it is having this effect.

Now: I'm not making that above paragraph up as a parody of homophobes playing the victim card - it's actually from John Water's own mouth, reported on Broadsheet.ie.

So there you have it, internet people: it is YOU that are the bullies with your intimidation, demonization, smears and ridicule, for not recognising John Waters as some kind of Prophet Mohammed character who cannot be questioned.

The_Valeyard · 27-01-2015 8:16pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Or maybe the caretaker was sick and there was nobody to set up the venue. The fact is, other than a comment from an unidentified person, there is nothing to justify calling the principal a dick.

Never called him a dick???

A million reasons it could have been cancelled. Stated some already. Could possibly blame the journal.ie for publishing such a story without much facts and pure speculation.

the nikkei is rising · 27-01-2015 8:16pm

Id be annoyed if I had to sit through a workshop like that, I'm not a bigot and I couldn't care less about anyone's sexual orientation I don't need a workshop to explain to me that bullying is wrong

hotmail.com · 27-01-2015 8:17pm

spikeS wrote: »

But it's not fair for the school to have that workshop then not have an anti racist, anti misogyny, anti traveller workshop.

It would be easier just to have the one workshop to cover all, it would cost a fortune and time to cover them all equally

I would support dozens and dozens of anti-bullying work shops! More the better on all these issues.

The issue of homophobic bullying is just one source of bullying.

hotmail.com · 27-01-2015 8:18pm

the nikkei is rising wrote: »

Id be annoyed if I had to sit through a workshop like that, I'm not a bigot and I couldn't care less about anyone's sexual orientation I don't need a workshop to explain to me that bullying is wrong

A bit closed minded? You might learn something new.

spikeS · 27-01-2015 8:18pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

So there you have it, internet people: it is YOU that are the bullies with your intimidation, demonization, smears and ridicule, for not recognising John Waters as some kind of Prophet Mohammed character who cannot be questioned.

No need for the islamphobia

DuchessduJour · 27-01-2015 8:18pm

I actually can't remember the last time I was this stunned to read something in the news. Honestly thought it was a Waterford Whispers New article at first. What the everloving ****?!

Nodin · 27-01-2015 8:18pm

Waters a homophobe? Sure what gave ye that idea?

"So it is eventually going to happen, and of course the consequences will flow and among the consequences I predict will be the whole, this is really a kind of a satire on marriage, that is being conducted by the gay lobby. It is not that they want to get married it is that they want to destroy the institution of marriage because they are envious of it and they see it as a, really, as an affront to their equality."

"Gay marriage is really a satire on marriage."

"The idea of two men in shiny suits, there, standing on the church steps that’s satire of our civilisation, that’s what it is. And that’s what it’s intended to be.”
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/09/its-not-even-gay-marriage-im-opposed-to-its-the-idea-of-gay-adoption/

"Drunk with liberal hubris, have we reinvented the wheel of life, deciding that two lesbians playing House can trump the claims of the forces that create human life?"
https://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/meanwhile-john-waters-reinventing-the-wheel-of-life-yeah-right/

AndonHandon · 27-01-2015 8:22pm

Typical closed-minded Gaelgoir attitude; too stubborn to change their attitude and snobbery with Irish. This is unsurprising.

One eyed Jack · 27-01-2015 8:27pm

Daith wrote: »

They were going to give the talk and the school had no issue beforehand. If the school decided that they were going to do it themselves then why not say so.

I don't know tbh, and if I had been Mr. Meehan I would have sought a meeting with the Principal and gone through official channels rather than firing off a knee-jerk reaction on twitter in response to an unknown person at the school who had no authority to speak on behalf of the school.

gandalf · 27-01-2015 8:27pm

AndonHandon wrote: »

Typical closed-minded Gaelgoir attitude; too stubborn to change their attitude and snobbery with Irish. This is unsurprising.

I wouldn't say that considering they had the same workshop in the school in 2012 and 2013. On reflection it sounds like a parent or "external body" threatened them. It could be because of the upcoming marriage equality referendum. Some of the No side will be resorting the every dirty trick in the book.

I hope the school do come out and explain fully the reasons for the cancellation because at the moment they are taking the brunt of the criticism and it certainly is damaging their image and reputation.

As for people saying that the workshop is too selective I don't agree. The more we educate our children about the various types of bullying the better. I grew up in the 1980's and alot of what would have been classed as banter or slagging when I was in secondary school would be considered bullying now.

The_Valeyard · 27-01-2015 8:28pm

AndonHandon wrote: »

Typical closed-minded Gaelgoir attitude; too stubborn to change their attitude and snobbery with Irish. This is unsurprising.

Ha!

Because its because the lads didn't do the workshop through Irish.

Although they had been in the school previously.

endacl · 27-01-2015 8:31pm

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Hi John! (waves)

Stop picking on the new boardsie. Blatant noobiphobia. Down with this sorta of thing. For fecks sake.

:mad:

The_Valeyard · 27-01-2015 8:33pm

endacl wrote: »

Stop picking on the new boardsie. Blatant noobiphobia. Down with this sorta of thing. For fecks sake.

:mad:

Ooohhhhh noobiphobia, I like it!

K4t · 27-01-2015 8:34pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

It is all inclusive. Everyone can be a homophobic bully and you sure as **** don't have to be gay to be a victim of it.

Exactly. Gay people can be homophobic bullies and straight homophobic people can not be homophobic bullies. The whole premise of homophobic bullying is misguided.

Bullying is a part of human nature unfortunately and will never be completely eradicated. But we can eradicate homophobia, if we tackle it as a separate issue to bullying, and educate our young people in all things relating to homophobia, from anal to sex to science to aids and so on.

alan partridge aha · 27-01-2015 8:37pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Expect Iona parachuting in to provide the "other side"

Idiotic comment.

Annasopra · 27-01-2015 8:47pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The thing with phrases like 'homophobic bullying' is that it makes it sound like the problem is with the homophobic part and not the bullying.

I would have been a little pissed off when I was in school if a group came in and said homophobic bullying wasn't on but there was no mention of any other bullying, as if the bullying I had to put up with didn't matter because I wasn't gay.

No. Straight people are often victims of homophobic bullying as well.

NachoBusiness · 27-01-2015 8:50pm

Nodin wrote: »

Waters a homophobe? Sure what gave ye that idea?

"So it is eventually going to happen, and of course the consequences will flow and among the consequences I predict will be the whole, this is really a kind of a satire on marriage, that is being conducted by the gay lobby. It is not that they want to get married it is that they want to destroy the institution of marriage because they are envious of it and they see it as a, really, as an affront to their equality."

"Gay marriage is really a satire on marriage."

"The idea of two men in shiny suits, there, standing on the church steps that’s satire of our civilisation, that’s what it is. And that’s what it’s intended to be[/URL]

"Drunk with liberal hubris, have we reinvented the wheel of life, deciding that two lesbians playing House can trump the claims of the forces that create human life?"

None of the above comments are homophobic no matter how out of context you, or anyone else, wishes to take them. Like it or not, and it's quite clear that you don't like it, some people are vehemently opposed to Gay marriage, but, that in and of itself does not make those people homophobic. I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word if you feel that expressing such views justifies such a label such as homophobe .

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Hi John! (waves)

Luke92 wrote: »

Finally got around to registering. Mr Waters?

Yes, you got me. I registered yesterday as just after mass on Sunday, the priest came to me and told me that they had a premonition that someone on this forum was going to make a a a nasty little libelous joke about me on here today. Been searching for my name for the past 24 hours and just when I had almost given up, here we are. And there was me doubting Sinead's ordination.

Gatling wrote: »

Don't get the pantis in a bunch

So you have no real basis for your "joke" then. Thought as much. Bullying it is so.
.

Donkey Oaty · 27-01-2015 8:52pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No. Straight people are often victims of homophobic bullying as well.

And in a way, homophobes are victims of their own prejudices as well - and it will improve their lives immensely to be able to go through life not hating gay people.

Nodin · 27-01-2015 8:53pm

NachoBusiness wrote: »

None of the above comments are homophobic no matter how out of context you, or anyone else, wishes to take them. ..........
.

God no. No-one should think that somebody who accuses a section of society of being out to destroy something has anything against that section at all, at all.

Daith · 27-01-2015 8:53pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don't know tbh, and if I had been Mr. Meehan I would have sought a meeting with the Principal and gone through official channels rather than firing off a knee-jerk reaction on twitter in response to an unknown person at the school who had no authority to speak on behalf of the school.

They had asked the school to give an explanation and none was forthcoming.

Are they not allowed to post stuff on twitter now? You know as little about the issue than the people involved yet it doesn't stop you posting?

Daith · 27-01-2015 8:54pm

Apparently it was "postponed"

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0127/676035-school-homophobic-talk/

Some parents, he said, had not received letters and some had a difficulty with the topic of LGBT issues being raised at the workshop.

jobbridge4life · 27-01-2015 8:54pm

NachoBusiness wrote: »

None of the above comments are homophobic no matter how out of context you, or anyone else, wishes to take them. Like it or not, and it's quite clear that you don't like it, some people are vehemently opposed to Gay marriage, but, that in and of itself does not make those people homophobic. I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word if you feel that expressing such views justifies such a label such as homophobe .

Yes, you got me. I registered yesterday as just after mass on Sunday, the priest came to me and told me that they had a premonition that someone on this forum was going to make a a a nasty little libelous joke about me on here today. Been searching for my name for the past 24 hours and just when I had almost given up, here we are. And there was me doubting Sinead's ordination.

So you have no real basis for your "joke" then. Thought as much. Bullying it is so.
.

Oh lolgasm. John Waters ain't a homophobe he's my brother.

Anita Blow · 27-01-2015 8:58pm

K4t wrote: »

Exactly. Gay people can be homophobic bullies and straight homophobic people can not be homophobic bullies. The whole premise of homophobic bullying is misguided.

Bullying is a part of human nature unfortunately and will never be completely eradicated. But we can eradicate homophobia, if we tackle it as a separate issue to bullying, and educate our young people in all things relating to homophobia, from anal to sex to science to aids and so on.

I completely agree with you that bullying is bullying, regardless of the type.
I can understand though why specific education surrounding homophobic bullying would be justified. Growing up gay is a completely unique experience with the whole remaining closeted til you're an adult aspect of life. People can be bullied for being ginger, nerds etc. but none of them ever have to hide that aspect of their life, or face being disowned by their parents for that.
As such, young people (who understandably may have never thought about that before) would benefit from learning about the mental toll that can have on a person, and how even off the cuff "******" remarks (or worse) can impact on that person. Especially considering school-aged gay people in Ireland today are 7 times more likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual counterparts. It's a very vulnerable group of people that I think warrants special attention, along with other vulnerable groups such as racism etc.

The_Valeyard · 27-01-2015 8:59pm

Daith wrote: »

Apparently it was "postponed"

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0127/676035-school-homophobic-talk/

Suppose that makes sense. Parents usually informed when workshop take place instead of normal classes.

VinLieger · 27-01-2015 8:59pm

Daith wrote: »

Apparently it was "postponed"

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0127/676035-school-homophobic-talk/

Basicially sounds like some bigoted card carrying Iona parent had issues with the LGBT topics and raised a stink

Daith · 27-01-2015 9:04pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Suppose that makes sense. Parents usually informed when workshop take place instead of normal classes.

It was arranged several months ago. Not exactly buying that answer.

Donkey Oaty · 27-01-2015 9:04pm

The statement is interesting.

Speaking this afternoon, its principal Finín Máirtín said the workshop had not been cancelled but had been postponed.

He said that parents had received late notification about the talk, because letters had only gone out yesterday.

Some parents, he said, had not received letters and some had a difficulty with the topic of LGBT issues being raised at the workshop.

But he said that there was also an issue with students over-compensating for perceived homophobia.

"Obviously we want to avoid situations in the past where students have attended such a workshop and ended up smoking some tramp's aul lad on the way home from school," he added.

spikeS · 27-01-2015 9:08pm

Daith wrote: »

It was arranged several months ago. Not exactly buying that answer.

And the school sent out letters yesterday? This is all the schools fault, they messed up

The_Valeyard · 27-01-2015 9:10pm

Daith wrote: »

It was arranged several months ago. Not exactly buying that answer.

Must have missed where it was arranged and confirmed several months ago?

Someone probably dropped the ball. Letters were just forgotten or left to late.

Daith · 27-01-2015 9:11pm

spikeS wrote: »

And the school sent out letters yesterday? This is all the schools fault, they messed up

It doesn't make sense at all. If the letters were only sent out yesterday how come some parents

"some had a difficulty with the topic of LGBT issues being raised at the workshop."

Sorry, they got the letters today and rang the school straight away?

None of it makes any sense.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Must have missed where it was arranged and confirmed several months ago?

A chap from Shout Out said it. Will try and find the link again.

http://www.thejournal.ie/colaiste-eoin-stillorgan-homophobia-workshop-1905500-Jan2015/

Meehan said that workshop had been booked several months ago and the cancellation was “out of the blue”.

spikeS · 27-01-2015 9:12pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Must have missed where it was arranged and confirmed several months ago?

Someone probably dropped the ball. Letters were just forgotten or left to late.

This they had to cancel, they messed up the letters and without permission it could not go ahead

spikeS · 27-01-2015 9:13pm

Daith wrote: »

It doesn't make sense at all. If the letters were only sent out yesterday how come some parents

"some had a difficulty with the topic of LGBT issues being raised at the workshop."

Sorry, they got the letters today and rang the school straight away?

None of it makes any sense.

A chap from Shout Out said it. Will try and find the link again.

Meehan said that workshop had been booked several months ago and the cancellation was “out of the blue”.

So shout out or the school is lying it would seem

Daith · 27-01-2015 9:14pm

K4t wrote: »

It became a debate as soon as the focus of the workshop was homophobic bullying instead of simply bullying.

Schools are supposed to tackle homophobic bullying. Emphasis on homophobic. It's very clear actually.

http://www.thejournal.ie/cyber-bullying-1082034-Sep2013/

Andrewf20 · 27-01-2015 9:17pm

What do they do in a LGBT workshop? I genuinely have no idea.

SaveOurLyric · 27-01-2015 9:17pm

eviltwin wrote: »

How can there be two sides to bullying, homophobic or of any other kind?

Clearly, there are bullies. Who believe its OK to do what they do. So they have a point of view. Yes it conflicts with the great majority who abhor homophobic bullying, but nevertheless, the bullies have their side.

eviltwin wrote: »

What argument could there be? Who would represent the other side?

Bullies, obviously. And its up to them to make their case in favour of it.

Donkey Oaty · 27-01-2015 9:20pm

Andrewf20 wrote: »

What do they do in a LGBT workshop? I genuinely have no idea.

Hour-long discussion. Seems sound enough.

http://shoutout.ie/school-programme/

One eyed Jack · 27-01-2015 9:21pm

Daith wrote: »

They had asked the school to give an explanation and none was forthcoming.

Are they not allowed to post stuff on twitter now? You know as little about the issue than the people involved yet it doesn't stop you posting?

I never said anyone wasn't allowed post anything, I suggested that it was a knee-jerk reaction, and an ill-judged one at that. I'm quite familiar with outside organisations arranging to speak to students and the workings of the school management system. It takes the word 'bureaucracy' to the next level.

Daith wrote: »

It doesn't make sense at all. If the letters were only sent out yesterday how come some parents

"some had a difficulty with the topic of LGBT issues being raised at the workshop."

Sorry, they got the letters today and rang the school straight away?

None of it makes any sense.

A chap from Shout Out said it. Will try and find the link again.

http://www.thejournal.ie/colaiste-eoin-stillorgan-homophobia-workshop-1905500-Jan2015/

Meehan said that workshop had been booked several months ago and the cancellation was “out of the blue”.

They may not have instant access to twitter like Mr. Meehan and the journalists that picked up the story and ran with it, but parents usually have access to mobile phones, and can contact the school in the same way Mr. Meehan did.

Daith · 27-01-2015 9:23pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I never said anyone wasn't allowed post anything, I suggested that it was a knee-jerk reaction, and an ill-judged one at that.

Ill judged for the school who messed up. Hardly knee-jerk after repeated attempts to get an answer from the school.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They may not have instant access to twitter like Mr. Meehan and the journalists that picked up the story and ran with it, but parents usually have access to mobile phones, and can contact the school in the same way Mr. Meehan did.

It's a pity the school didn't give Mr. Meehan an actual response then isn't? After repeated attempts to contact the school as to why they would cancel an event with half hour notice that was arranged months ago?

Now what issues in a LGBT workshop focused on homophobic bullying would some parents object to.

aunt aggie · 27-01-2015 9:25pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Basicially sounds like some bigoted card carrying Iona parent had issues with the LGBT topics and raised a stink

Doesn't make sense... Schools have a legal responsibility to provide relationships education including anti bullying and sex ed. Parents are usually just informed and there's nothing they can do about it. They cant change school policy and the laws of the country because of their own beliefs.

Dublin school cancels workshop on homophobic bullying, saying “both sides should be r

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