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Dublin school cancels workshop on homophobic bullying, saying “both sides should be r

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Comments

  • #52
    Undergod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    K4t wrote: »
    This is what happens when you start inventing titles like "homophobic bullying" instead of simply BULLYING.

    If you want to teach people about homophobia then fair enough but you can see an argument for both sides being represented, which is what I think is happening here.

    The side in favour of homophobic bullying?


    right so


  • #53
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    K4t wrote: »
    Imagine being a ginger student at that school thinking about complaining about ginger bullying. This would make you think twice.

    It's a Gaelscoil - aren't they all ginger?


  • #54
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,267 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Imagine being s gay student at that school thinking about complaining about homophobic bullying. This would make you think twice.

    Or a gay teacher on staff, where saying anything about it could get you sacked - and legally, thanks to our equality legislation.


  • #55
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    So who is it that need to be represented? The bullies or the homophobes?

    TBH it stinks of a certain Institute sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. The sooner we marginalise these bigots further the better. They have far too much input into various spheres of influence in our society.

    The schools management should be absolutely ashamed of themselves in cancelling a talk that has been given on two previous years there at such short notice. It's going to be interesting to find out who is behind this or who they get to represent the "other side" or to even get them to explain what the "other side" is?


  • #56
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    You cannot unfairly target homophobia.
    Tell that to the victims of homophobia bullying.


  • #57
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    spurious wrote: »
    Or a gay teacher on staff, where saying anything about it could get you sacked - and legally, thanks to our equality legislation.

    I had no idea that was the case. It's amazing that being born a certain way makes you a legal target for hate.


  • #58
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    K4t wrote: »
    Tell that to the victims of homophobia bullying.

    No I'd rather not talk to them to be honest.


  • #59
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,267 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I had no idea that was the case. It's amazing that being born a certain way makes you a legal target for hate.

    The glorious Section 37.1 which we've been promised for years will be done away with, but nothing yet.


  • #60
    Generic Dreadhead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    K4t wrote: »
    Tell that to the victims of homophobia bullying.

    Do you even know what Homophobia means? :confused:


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  • #61
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Cormac... wrote: »
    Do you even know what Homophobia means? :confused:
    Yes. And I hate it.


  • #62
    diddley
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭diddley


    There has to be something more to this, it's too ridiculous?!


  • #63
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,229 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    diddley wrote: »
    There has to be something more to this, it's too ridiculous?!

    For what it's worth, I know one of the founders of the group, saw him talking about this on facebook earlier. I would absolutely take his word on it.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #64
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    an unidentified person told them that the Board of Management had decided that “both sides of the argument should be represented”

    Well that settles it, burn the school down. Just thought I'd point out the prematurity of the witch hunt.


  • #65
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Let's hope our journalists don't let this one slide. They need to get a full explanation out of this school as to why they cancelled at the last minute and specifically what they mean when they say they cancelled “because the Board of management had decided that both sides of the argument should be given” to quote the Irish Times.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/dublin-school-cancels-workshops-on-homophobic-bullying-1.2081515


  • #66
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Thought this was a Waterford Whispers story when first heard it..


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  • #67
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    No. 1 One Direction Fan wrote: »
    For what it's worth, I know one of the founders of the group, saw him talking about this on facebook earlier. I would absolutely take his word on it.

    I'm sure he's sincere and telling it like it is, but the point is that there has been some massive communication breakdown here that has lead to what looks like a PR disaster for the school.

    They need to issue a statement.


  • #68
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,336 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Why have a LBGT bullying talk, isn't it the fact that it's not all incluisive of every pupil enough reason to not allow it to go ahead.

    Blessed are the big noses etc..


  • #69
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Why have a LBGT bullying talk, isn't it the fact that it's not all incluisive of every pupil enough reason to not allow it to go ahead.

    Blessed are the big noses etc..

    It is all inclusive. Everyone can be a homophobic bully and you sure as **** don't have to be gay to be a victim of it.


  • #70
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,336 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I doubt there's any mention of the big noses.


  • #71
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    What does an anti-homophobia workshop include that wouldn't naturally fall under an anti-bullying workshop anyway?

    Edit: cancelling at the last minute was a dick move though.


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  • #72
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    This sounds so utterly ridiculous and incredible that I think it should be taken with a pinch of salt. We only have the reported claim from someone claiming "both sides" should be heard. No direct indication that was indeed the case. That said, the school made absolute cock-up PR wise. Tackle the issue head-on don't let the media speculate.

    If the reports on "both sides" are true.
    I don't actually know what to say. Utter stupidity of the highest order.


  • #73
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    K4t wrote: »
    And if a homophobia bullying workshop focusing on discrimination against those who hold homophobic views was scheduled to visit your school, would you not be annoyed at the lack of equal representation?
    What do you mean equal representation?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #74
    diddley
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭diddley


    No. 1 One Direction Fan wrote: »
    For what it's worth, I know one of the founders of the group, saw him talking about this on facebook earlier. I would absolutely take his word on it.

    Fair enough, it just seems very strange and stupid. On the journal.ie there's alleged ex-students saying that the school is fairly liberal and tolerant, and highlights how it was one of the first schools to host this anti-bullying group. All will be made clear soon I'm sure.


  • #75
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Probably best to keep an open mind on what's gone on here, until the school clarifies its position.

    They're not doing themselves any favours at the moment by refusing to comment.


  • #76
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    It's odd a school would ask a group like this to come in only to do a complete 180 while the group are actually at the school ready to go. I wonder did some conservative parent or BOM member threaten them with legal action or something due to supposed bias. Seems like they panicked in asking them to go at the last minute.


  • #77
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Before I jump on the moral outrage high horse, I am bit wary of this so called 'unidentified source' claiming that the BOM cancelled it due to 'balance' I shall wait and see. If it is true, then carry on blasting them, but it doesnt make sense, they have been to all sorts of schools, church run, non-denominational, mixed, etc,


  • #78
    spikeS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭spikeS


    diddley wrote: »
    Fair enough, it just seems very strange and stupid. On the journal.ie there's alleged ex-students saying that the school is fairly liberal and tolerant, and highlights how it was one of the first schools to host this anti-bullying group. All will be made clear soon I'm sure.

    Would the school have thought that maybe it was wrong to single out lgbt students and an all inclusive anti bullying talk would be better to not make it seem like lgbt people are second class citizens


  • #79
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,899 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    diddley wrote: »
    Fair enough, it just seems very strange and stupid. On the journal.ie there's alleged ex-students saying that the school is fairly liberal and tolerant, and highlights how it was one of the first schools to host this anti-bullying group. All will be made clear soon I'm sure.

    The guy due to give the workshop said similar tbf

    We can but hope for some explanation and hope it's just poor communication


  • #80
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Possible the school was running another workshop where homophobic bullying was been categorised under the general topic of bullying (weight, looks, religion, colour, background, gay, etc) and not a separate workshop?


  • #81
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Declan Meehan, the schools co-ordinator for ShoutOut, said that the group was originally not given any explanation, before an unidentified person told them that the Board of Management had decided that “both sides of the argument should be represented”.

    “My colleagues were baffled by this and questioned what he meant, but it wasn’t forthcoming”.

    Meehan said that workshop had been booked several months ago and the cancellation was “out of the blue”.

    “We’ve been out at Colaiste Eoin before back in 2012 and 2013,” he told TheJournal.ie. ”It was actually the first school we ever did a workshop in and they’ve always been very hospitable to us.”

    It is the first time that the group has ever had a school cancel.

    “We’ve been running for about two years and we do between three and four workshops a week. We’ve been in all kinds of schools – Church-run, non-denominational, mixed, same-sex. We’ve never had anything like this before”.

    A person who answered the phone at the school said that the principal “doesn’t want to comment” on what happened.

    She said that the incident will be “going to the Board of Management” but did not elaborate on what exactly this meant.


    So there's actually been no official statement from the Board of Management of the school, nor the Principal, on this issue, and already people are jumping up and down to be outraged on the back of a phone call?

    I also wonder why the group didn't attend the school in 2014, so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the school has decided to give the students the information themselves. Some schools will bring in third parties to talk to the students, it's not unusual that the vast majority of schools talk to the students themselves.


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  • #82
    haveringchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭haveringchick


    It's possible that there were complaints/objections from parents. My daughter's school had a vvisit from the Rose of Tralee and she spoke to morning assembly and mentioned in passing the fact that she is gay, doesn't let it define her etc.
    There were complaints afterwards from some parents.


  • #83
    spikeS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭spikeS


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Possible the school was running another workshop where homophobic bullying was been categorised under the general topic of bullying (weight, looks, religion, colour, background, gay, etc) and not a separate workshop?

    This would make sense as it would be a balanced workshop and not singling out lgbt people


  • #84
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    haveringchick wrote: »
    It's possible that there were complaints/objections from parents. My daughter's school had a vvisit from the Rose of Tralee and she spoke to morning assembly and mentioned in passing the fact that she is gay, doesn't let it define her etc.
    There were complaints afterwards from some parents.

    That's depressing :(


  • #85
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    haveringchick wrote: »
    It's possible that there were complaints/objections from parents. My daughter's school had a vvisit from the Rose of Tralee and she spoke to morning assembly and mentioned in passing the fact that she is gay, doesn't let it define her etc.
    There were complaints afterwards from some parents.


    But in large schools some parents are going to complain no matter what, since the background is so broad. (leftwing, rightwing, religious, active atheist, gay, straight) No matter what a school does or say someone is going to get offended. Impossible situation.


    D*ck move cancelling the group. Maybe the group said something overtly political last time they were in the school? Or the school is running their own workshops on bullying rather than pay fees to 3rd party groups. The whole thing is bizarre though. Or some sort of miscommunication, dropping the ball, etc.


  • #86
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    What do you mean equal representation?
    That if an anti-LGBT group was invited to the school to talk about the bullying of students because of their homophobia, people wouldn't be so quick to criticise the school for cancelling the workshop for the reason given.


  • #87
    Dash Echoing Wharf
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Dash Echoing Wharf


    spurious wrote: »
    Or a gay teacher on staff, where saying anything about it could get you sacked - and legally, thanks to our equality legislation.

    that's being done away with thank fcuk


  • #88
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    haveringchick wrote: »
    It's possible that there were complaints/objections from parents. My daughter's school had a vvisit from the Rose of Tralee and she spoke to morning assembly and mentioned in passing the fact that she is gay, doesn't let it define her etc.
    There were complaints afterwards from some parents.

    People like this must still believe that gayness is contagious. Morons.


  • #89
    Hunchback
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭Hunchback


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What argument could there be? Who would represent the other side?

    Putin


  • #90
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭Daith


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    So there's actually been no official statement from the Board of Management of the school, nor the Principal, on this issue, and already people are jumping up and down to be outraged on the back of a phone call?

    I also wonder why the group didn't attend the school in 2014, so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the school has decided to give the students the information themselves. Some schools will bring in third parties to talk to the students, it's not unusual that the vast majority of schools talk to the students themselves.

    They were going to give the talk and the school had no issue beforehand. If the school decided that they were going to do it themselves then why not say so.


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  • #91
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    The thing with phrases like 'homophobic bullying' is that it makes it sound like the problem is with the homophobic part and not the bullying.

    I would have been a little pissed off when I was in school if a group came in and said homophobic bullying wasn't on but there was no mention of any other bullying, as if the bullying I had to put up with didn't matter because I wasn't gay.


  • #92
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    The thing with phrases like 'homophobic bullying' is that it makes it sound like the problem is with the homophobic part and not the bullying.

    I would have been a little pissed off when I was in school if a group came in and said homophobic bullying wasn't on but there was no mention of any other bullying, as if the bullying I had to put up with didn't matter because I wasn't gay.

    Your attitude is part of the problem.


  • #93
    haveringchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭haveringchick


    eviltwin wrote: »
    That's depressing :(

    There were complaints also after an Irish sports star came to speak about his experience on teenage depression. An in-law of mine complained after her primary school children were given a talk and a slide show about famine victims in Africa.
    Apparently they don't need " to have those images rammeded down their throats. It could have spoilt their Christmas"..


  • #94
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Had a discussion about this today.

    Peoples differentiating opinions on it is pretty odd.


  • #95
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Your attitude is part of the problem.

    What's wrong with his attitude?


  • #96
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,860 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    The thing with phrases like 'homophobic bullying' is that it makes it sound like the problem is with the homophobic part and not the bullying.

    I would have been a little pissed off when I was in school if a group came in and said homophobic bullying wasn't on but there was no mention of any other bullying, as if the bullying I had to put up with didn't matter because I wasn't gay.

    alternatively, a student might think that the school might take any report of bullying more seriously if they're taken a pro-active stance on homophobic bullying.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • #97
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    The thing with phrases like 'homophobic bullying' is that it makes it sound like the problem is with the homophobic part and not the bullying.

    I would have been a little pissed off when I was in school if a group came in and said homophobic bullying wasn't on but there was no mention of any other bullying, as if the bullying I had to put up with didn't matter because I wasn't gay.

    Would you get annoyed about using the term "racist bullying"?


  • #98
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Gatling wrote: »
    John waters

    Why do you (and also those that thanked you) feel that John Waters would be a suitable person to represent the 'unrepresented' here and argue in favour of homophobic bullying? John Waters is not a homophobe and nor has he ever expressed homophobic viewpoints, no matter what some idiot has to say on the Saturday Night Show. If you or anyone else has evidence to the contrary, lets hear it. Otherwise though, all you are doing by posting the above sly remark is indulging in the very thing which you appear to suggest you are opposed to: bullying.


  • #99
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Why do you (and also those that thanked you) feel that John Waters would be a suitable person to represent the 'unrepresented' here and argue in favour of homophobic bullying? John Waters is not a homophobe and nor has he ever expressed homophobic viewpoints, no matter what some idiot has to say on the Saturday Night Show. If you or anyone else has evidence to the contrary, lets hear it. Otherwise though, all you are doing by posting the above sly remark is indulging in the very thing which you appear to suggest you are opposed to: bullying.

    It was a joke.


  • #100
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Why do you (and also those that thanked you) feel that John Waters would be a suitable person to represent the 'unrepresented' here and argue in favour of homophobic bullying? John Waters is not a homophobe and nor has he ever expressed homophobic viewpoints, no matter what some idiot has to say on the Saturday Night Show. If you or anyone else has evidence to the contrary, lets hear it. Otherwise though, all you are doing by posting the above sly remark is indulging in the very thing which you appear to suggest you are opposed to: bullying.

    Hi John! (waves)


  • #101
    haveringchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭haveringchick


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    People like this must still believe that gayness is contagious. Morons.

    I doubt any girl arrived home and announced that she had decided that when she leaves school she wants to be a gay Rose but I suppose you never know.


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