Gardai proposals to ban firearms

Heckler · 28-02-2015 10:12pm

Cass wrote: »

It's utter bullsh*t, to put it bluntly.

It insinuates that the person licensed will intentionally break the conditions of their license (hence the law) by loading more than they are allowed to. It's (however vaguely) akin to saying you cannot have a driving license because you may at some point break the speed limit, have a crash, not wear your seatbelt, etc. It's anticipatory measures to deal with something that may happen.

What makes it all the more insulting is the lads going for their licenses are, for the majority, renewing and hence were deemed suitable to have the gun as it was/is previously. So if they are unsuitable then the Super should never have granted licenses in the first as it's a breach of the firearms act to grant a letter to an unsuitable person.

Its a farce at this stage. Would be comical if it wasn't so serious.

My pistol mags have a modification to restrict them to 5 rounds as per my licence requirements. No problem. However the AGS can come to my club and ask to see competition score cards to show that I'm actively participating in competitions. (god forbid I might just want to shoot for the fun of it). The rub being that any competitions so far I've been in, T & P and multi target, involve a course of fire of 6 shots.

Even range sign in and outs have been questioned. "Ok that proves you were there but it doesn't prove that you were actually shooting". Ffs. how do you argue against that type of nonsense.

Cass · 28-02-2015 10:13pm

bpb101 wrote: »

But a Big question is why. ? Are they really afraid of a mass shooting and are trying to cover their arses.

No. Simple answer is they don't want citizens/civilians with firearms. It's really that simple. I, like many others i'm sure, have actually had a Garda tell me if he had his way i wouldn't have a slingshot. To which i politely told him "thanks for your input, now do your job and send my application upstairs".

If it was time and effort then they would just licenses them as they surly know the time and paper work involved in going to the courts,.........

Previously they did not care. It's not their money they are wasting. Since costs were awarded though you now have the proposals, meetings, etc. IOW when you start taking money out of their pockets/budget they sit up and pay attention.

meathstevie wrote: »

Spot on Cass, the analogy you're drawing up with cars and driving licences is actually incorrect. It's more down the lines of ...

However you want to put it, it's preventative based on the assumption of a future crime. They must have these in the Phoenix Park:

6034073

Cass · 28-02-2015 10:15pm

Heckler wrote: »

However the AGS can come to my club and ask to see competition score cards to show that I'm actively participating in competitions. ........

There is another thing. The FCA1 asks you to show good reason for needing it. Since when does the law allow for them asking for competition entries, and scores to show you are participating.

The next question then becomes what level of competing is deemed sufficient? I cannot remember of the top of my head, but i believe there is no Act, or section to cover this. IOW demanding it AFTER being granted is unlawful.

bpb101 · 28-02-2015 10:25pm

Cass wrote: »

There is another thing. The FCA1 asks you to show good reason for needing it. Since when does the law allow for them asking for competition entries, and scores to show you are participating.

The next question then becomes what level of competing is deemed sufficient? I cannot remember of the top of my head, but i believe there is no Act, or section to cover this. IOW demanding it AFTER being granted is unlawful.

Becuase you cant class what is or isent a competition

You can have a competition between you and yourself.
you and the person beside you

Heckler · 28-02-2015 10:31pm

I have no aspirations (or skill !!) to even be a serious competitor on a national level, never mind this olympic standard the PTB think all pistol shooters should be aiming for. Which a blind man can see is just an excuse to refuse pistol licences.

When I applied for a rifle licence years back I put under good reason for needing one as hoping to compete nationally and internationally. Figured saying "it looks like fun" wouldn't have been acceptable.

Cass · 28-02-2015 10:31pm

bpb101 wrote: »

Becuase you cant class what is or isent a competition

Don't get what this is in response to.

You can have a competition between you and yourself.
you and the person beside you

You can hence my point. You can only get a pistol for use on an authorised range. Not for competitions, but for use on an authorised range. So whether you plink or compete on an international level, since when has it become the norm for people to have to show competition records to renew their licenses. Also since when did this become law?

bpb101 · 28-02-2015 10:41pm

Cass wrote: »

Don't get what this is in response to.

There is not act that sets out what level is needed to compete at.

You can hence my point. You can only get a pistol for use on an authorised range. Not for competitions, but for use on an authorised range. So whether you plink or compete on an international level, since when has it become the norm for people to have to show competition records to renew their licenses. Also since when did this become law?

Who was asked to show a proof of competition ?

Also a point i raised in my submission about only allowing Olympics style pistols . You cant just wake up in the morning and say hey , i want to be an Olympics hopefully.
Also with the proposals. Section 2(4)(D) which allows you to shoot an an authorized range for target or competition without a licenses . They want to exclude pistols from this list.

So a person who has never shot a pistol before will only be allowed to shoot a Olympics pistol, but cant do that without shelling out something that costs 2000+

Heckler · 28-02-2015 10:42pm

Its just another hurdle they can put in your way. You say your need for a particular firearm is for the sake of just shooting. Sorry, nope not good enough..

Its for competition, Ok.

A year later...I see you haven't been in any competitions. Why do you still need this firearm. Renewal refused. Or following spot checks licence revoked.

Heckler · 28-02-2015 10:47pm

bpb101 wrote: »

There is not act that sets out what level is needed to compete at.

Who was asked to show a proof of competition ?

Also a point i raised in my submission about only allowing Olympics style pistols . You cant just wake up in the morning and say hey , i want to be an Olympics hopefully.
Also with the proposals. Section 2(4)(D) which allows you to shoot an an authorized range for target or competition without a licenses . They want to exclude pistols from this list.

So a person who has never shot a pistol before will only be allowed to shoot a Olympics pistol, but cant do that without shelling out something that costs 2000+

Thats the whole point. They want to make it so inaccessible (expensive) to potential pistol shooters that they don't even bother applying.

Throw in some ridiculous mag capacity nonsense etc as a reason to refuse pistol renewals and eventually noone has a pistol anymore. Its so transparent its nearly laughable.

Sparks · 28-02-2015 10:48pm

Cass wrote: »

So whether you plink or compete on an international level, since when has it become the norm for people to have to show competition records to renew their licenses. Also since when did this become law?

Actually, the Minister himself back in '06 stated that being competitive was not a requirement, that someone who just goes down to the range to shoot as a pastime has as valid and as legitimate a "good reason" under section 4 as an Olympic team competitor training every day and spending thousands to represent their country.

Your attendance can get looked at; that's by design -- but the actual competitive level itself was considered unimportant by that design so long as you were sufficiently competent so that you wouldn't be a danger to yourself others through incompetence. That's why section 4 talks about proof of competence instead of proof of proficiency.

bpb101 · 28-02-2015 10:53pm

we say we have more restricted law than the rest of europe but to be fair , our laws are debatable stricter than china

Cass · 28-02-2015 10:56pm

bpb101 wrote: »

There is not act that sets out what level is needed to compete at.

Gothca. Brain has already gone to sleep.

Who was asked to show a proof of competition ?

Other than it being mentioned above, i was asked at one meeting (for a renewal) to show proof of taking part in comps. I replied that it was not a pre-requisite. Got the renewal.

Heckler wrote: »

Its just another hurdle they can put in your way. You say your need for a particular firearm is for the sake of just shooting. Sorry, nope not good enough..

Its for competition, Ok. .

For the purpose of this it only refers to pistols as they can only be gotten if you are a member of a range. Other firearms (shotguns, rifles, etc) can be gotten for other reasons not related to range shooting.

Don't pigeon hole yourself (not you personally, anyone). The law says "Good Reason". It also says only on an authorised range. So a pure beginner cannot say they want it for comps until they have gained the experience and competence that comes from practice and plinking. Then the issue i mentioned above about what constitutes enough.

Cass · 28-02-2015 10:59pm

Sparks wrote: »

Actually, the Minister himself back in '06 stated that being competitive was not a requirement, .

I know, hence my question. I should have used pissed off tags.

Heckler · 01-03-2015 1:07am

Cass wrote: »

Gothca. Brain has already gone to sleep.

Other than it being mentioned above, i was asked at one meeting (for a renewal) to show proof of taking part in comps. I replied that it was not a pre-requisite. Got the renewal.

For the purpose of this it only refers to pistols as they can only be gotten if you are a member of a range. Other firearms (shotguns, rifles, etc) can be gotten for other reasons not related to range shooting.

Don't pigeon hole yourself (not you personally, anyone). The law says "Good Reason". It also says only on an authorised range. So a pure beginner cannot say they want it for comps until they have gained the experience and competence that comes from practice and plinking. Then the issue i mentioned above about what constitutes enough.

I understand that. Obviously long guns can be used for hunting etc. I just meant that I think in some Supers eyes shooting for the fun of it at a range isn't good enough reason to grant a licence. We all know it should be but thats where the individual bias comes in that makes the whole process a lottery.

Cass · 01-03-2015 1:13am

This is where you need to know what's lawful and not.

Asking for comp attendance is not. The law only asks for membership to an authorised range and for it to be used there only. So to refuse it for a personal reason needs you to be able to call bullsh*t on it (not literally) and in the worst case scenario demand a letter of refusal with his/her personal reasons as opposed to legal ones.

This not only applies to pistols, but for every type of firearm. Over the years on the range, and on here, i've spoken to lads who have been refused because they wanted a scope with the rifle, would only be granted the new license if they surrendered a gun they already had, and other such tosh.

Heckler · 01-03-2015 2:27am

Cass wrote: »

This is where you need to know what's lawful and not.

Asking for comp attendance is not. The law only asks for membership to an authorised range and for it to be used there only. So to refuse it for a personal reason needs you to be able to call bullsh*t on it (not literally) and in the worst case scenario demand a letter of refusal with his/her personal reasons as opposed to legal ones.

This not only applies to pistols, but for every type of firearm. Over the years on the range, and on here, i've spoken to lads who have been refused because they wanted a scope with the rifle, would only be granted the new license if they surrendered a gun they already had, and other such tosh.

I get not calling "bull****" i.e. being more diplomatic. When I went for my first license (.22 rifle) I had never had any interaction with the guards. The FO I met in my district was, to put it bluntly, a prick. I felt like I was on trial. "Why do you want it ?", "I don't like your security arrangements" etc etc. Very aggressive. A real ball breaker. I just sat there and nodded along hoping that I'd get the licence assuming if i opened my mouth he'd just write down not approved or whatever. 6 weeks later got it.

When I applied for my pistol licence in a different district I didn't even have to meet a FO. Handed in my paperwork at the front desk (as I was told to do) and 3 weeks later got the licence. And the Guards there were really friendly.

My point is it would be hard for me to challenge a Guard, be it argue a point with an FO or a Super, because I have no history with them and always saw them as not to be questioned least you get on their wrong side.

Grizzly 45 · 01-03-2015 2:52am

Thats a point alright,was just discussing this today at the range.Aot of them cant handle us "questioning my authorithity" [As Eric Cartman said in South Park ].
At one stage their word was accepted as gospel on anything and if no one was the wiser in Ireland in days gone by,who would dare question the preist,politican or Garda??Times they are a changin,and people question "The man",and we are just getting round to do this nowadays here in Ireland,and they just dont like this,especially if you have had it indoctrinated into you from Templemore and reading your Garda guide,that "Handguns are especially dangerous ,and should not be liscensed to civillians as much as possible."Should we be surprised at this attitude to them??

Heckler · 01-03-2015 3:37am

Everything I've seen so far has a Super signing off on licences.

I got my pistol licence about 5 months ago. As far as I can remember on the AGS paperwork it was signed off by an Inspector which (not being an expert on garda ranks) is below a Super.

So is an Inspector allowed to sign off or am I in breach of something ?

hexosan · 01-03-2015 3:47am

Heckler wrote: »

Everything I've seen so far has a Super signing off on licences.

I got my pistol licence about 5 months ago. As far as I can remember on the AGS paperwork it was signed off by an Inspector which (not being an expert on garda ranks) is below a Super.

So is an Inspector allowed to sign off or am I in breach of something ?

When super isn't there inspector becomes acting super

Each rank can act one rank higher.

Heckler · 01-03-2015 4:00am

hexosan wrote: »

When super isn't there inspector becomes acting super

Each rank can act one rank higher.

Nice one. Thanks.

meathstevie · 01-03-2015 10:15am

hexosan wrote: »

When super isn't there inspector becomes acting super

Each rank can act one rank higher.

What happens in reality with the vast majority of applications is simply a matter of trust between you the applicant, the FO and the Super. You talk to the FO and in rural stations often the local skipper and they'll quite quickly figure out if you're sound or not, they pass their bit on to the Super and he/she goes by the advice from below. There's no way in hell a Super can deal with every application or renewal passing through every station in a district and have time to do the other mountain of work on their desk.

knockon · 01-03-2015 10:59am

Given the massive costs award against the state last Oct in the Limerick DC has there been any other DC appeals since then and what way have costs gone?

Am I incorrect in thinking if there is no change and the proposals by AGS and DOJ die a death and are pushed off the Ministers desk and the next time my CS says "I am refusing you"......Can I reply "work away cos I ain't paying for the appeal"?

In other words Grizzly45 case and the €30,000 costs..... Has that caused a sea change in appeals? Anyone in the DC soon on appeal?

Grizzly 45 · 01-03-2015 11:55am

knockon wrote: »

Given the massive costs award against the state last Oct in the Limerick DC has there been any other DC appeals since then and what way have costs gone?

Am I incorrect in thinking if there is no change and the proposals by AGS and DOJ die a death and are pushed off the Ministers desk and the next time my CS says "I am refusing you"......Can I reply "work away cos I ain't paying for the appeal"?

In other words Grizzly45 case and the €30,000 costs..... Has that caused a sea change in appeals? Anyone in the DC soon on appeal?

There was another appeal last Wed in Ennis.Seems to be adjourned due to a legal question of the judge having the authority to grant an extension to an elapsed application. Also , apprently everyone's favourite Detective inspector was there too In some sort of official capacity. But apart from that.......nothing .
But to answer your question,yes you could do that,and this is why they are trying to get a ban on just about every gun that has been involved in these cases.
They still haven't ponied up the 30 grand either yet.Like anything here money matters get everyone's undivided attention.

Gormley85 · 01-03-2015 12:52pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

There was another appeal last Wed in Ennis.Seems to be adjourned due to a legal question of the judge having the authority to grant an extension to an elapsed application. Also , apprently everyone's favourite Detective inspector was there too In some sort of official capacity. But apart from that.......nothing .
But to answer your question,yes you could do that,and this is why they are trying to get a ban on just about every gun that has been involved in these cases.
They still haven't ponied up the 30 grand either yet.Like anything here money matters get everyone's undivided attention.

Grizzly, where/how do you hear about all these cases? Is there a website or something that has all these cases?

Grizzly 45 · 01-03-2015 1:28pm

Gormley85 wrote: »

Grizzly, where/how do you hear about all these cases? Is there a website or something that has all these cases?

My spies are everywhere!!

Cass · 01-03-2015 2:39pm

Heckler wrote: »

......... and always saw them as not to be questioned least you get on their wrong side.

I know. A trait that is too common here. BE polite, but not to the extent you get stood on.

Recently i challenged the local lady that deals with all applications (not the FO the woman that gets them ready for the Super). She told me that waiting 11 weeks for a sub is still okay because she has three months. I told her she had 14 days, and to be polite 14 working days, and she is 8 weeks over the limit. She immediately got snotty, and short in her answers. Now my application has been sent back to my local station twice for "questioning" even though i supplied paperwork to everything that was asked.

IOW i dared push her to stay within the confines of the law and i'm now paying for it. It's annoying and infuriating, but she is in control and any complaint would only serve to delay it further. I'm now on week 16.

Heckler wrote: »

So is an Inspector allowed to sign off or am I in breach of something ?

I've had an inspector sign two of mine when a Super was not available. It was signed by Inspector "X" on behalf of Super "Y"

It was only a sub though. Never had it with a renewal or full application so not sure on the legalities.

meathstevie · 01-03-2015 6:26pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

There was another appeal last Wed .....

.
They still haven't ponied up the 30 grand either yet.Like anything here money matters get everyone's undivided attention.

Is there a time limit set on those cost awarding rulings to be fulfilled ? Would love to see the faces when the powers that be get a little note kindly inviting them to come and explain their contempt to the Court.

Grizzly 45 · 01-03-2015 8:07pm

meathstevie wrote: »

Is there a time limit set on those cost awarding rulings to be fulfilled ? Would love to see the faces when the powers that be get a little note kindly inviting them to come and explain their contempt to the Court.

TO BE CONTINUED...;)

turismo2142 · 01-03-2015 10:21pm

Re costs timeframes. Nothing to do with contempt of court. They'd be dealing wth the state solicitors office who'd drag things out before the matter would ultimately have to be taxed. Most likely by a district court judge. Your lawyers won't be seeing that money anytime soon.

Grizz. Where did the recent power to award costs against the ags come from? I'm not familiar with it.

Grizzly 45 · 02-03-2015 12:14am

Revised District court rules 2014.Sect 50{??} Its about three sentences long that allows the seeking of costs in firearms liscensing appeals.In amongst 56 odd pages of other legal stuff.No I dont suppose they will,as we wont see the appx 4.5 million due from the high courts from the dtate/AGS on their little jaunt four years ago either,as its still in the taxing masters office....

Heckler · 02-03-2015 5:21am

Cass wrote: »

I know. A trait that is too common here. BE polite, but not to the extent you get stood on.

Recently i challenged the local lady that deals with all applications (not the FO the woman that gets them ready for the Super). She told me that waiting 11 weeks for a sub is still okay because she has three months. I told her she had 14 days, and to be polite 14 working days, and she is 8 weeks over the limit. She immediately got snotty, and short in her answers. Now my application has been sent back to my local station twice for "questioning" even though i supplied paperwork to everything that was asked.

IOW i dared push her to stay within the confines of the law and i'm now paying for it. It's annoying and infuriating, but she is in control and any complaint would only serve to delay it further. I'm now on week 16.

I've had an inspector sign two of mine when a Super was not available. It was signed by Inspector "X" on behalf of Super "Y"

It was only a sub though. Never had it with a renewal or full application so not sure on the legalities.

I'm gonna play dumb. I submitted the correct paperwork as I was instructed and was granted the licence. Its not up to me to know who has the authority to sign off.

meathstevie · 02-03-2015 11:11am

Heckler wrote: »

I'm gonna play dumb. I submitted the correct paperwork as I was instructed and was granted the licence. Its not up to me to know who has the authority to sign off.

Don't worry, it's fine. Acting sergeants, inspectors, supers etc happens all the time. Even the Commissioner was acting Commissioner for a while before she was confirmed in the rank. Doesn't make her decissions during temporary promotion any less legit.

Sparks · 02-03-2015 12:39pm

Heckler wrote: »

Its not up to me to know who has the authority to sign off.

Just to nit-pick because it's a monday morning, it can be. That's why the whole "is it restricted or not" question is such a critical one. You, as the applicant, are supposed to know if it's restricted so you apply to the correct person.

In terms of who's signing off on it though, that delegation's covered by law, so you're fine there so long as you applied to the right place. Don't forget, for a restricted firearm, section 3(2) says:

(2) Application for a restricted firearm certificate shall be made to the Commissioner.

But you apply to your chief super - that's a delegation from the Commissioner which is covered by the law.

Limerick Sovereigns · 02-03-2015 2:37pm

In the opinion of posters, is there any point in applying for a licence (not a renewal) for a Hammerli Xesse at the moment?

In the absence of the old "approved pistols list" (I know, I know) can it now be legitimately refused under the clause that bans pistols that look like "law enforcement" pistols. Sorry but I can't find the relevant SI.

Thanks in advance.

Sparks · 02-03-2015 2:59pm

Is there any point? Yes, if you want to take up target shooting.
Can it be legitimately refused? Well, it could be refused on that specific point I suppose, but they'd probably lose in the district court if you challanged it. But that is not a guarantee and absolutely nobody could ever give you such a guarantee about court cases.

Personally, I'd go for it, but your milage may vary.

hexosan · 02-03-2015 3:10pm

Since the old approved list is out the window have they released an amended list

Sparks · 02-03-2015 3:13pm

Not yet. I don't know if they plan to either, given that the reaction to the original list was to treat it as the law instead of treating the law as the law.

BoatMad · 02-03-2015 3:17pm

Limerick Sovereigns wrote: »

In the opinion of posters, is there any point in applying for a licence (not a renewal) for a Hammerli Xesse at the moment?

In the absence of the old "approved pistols list" (I know, I know) can it now be legitimately refused under the clause that bans pistols that look like "law enforcement" pistols. Sorry but I can't find the relevant SI.

Thanks in advance.

My super , saw the removal of the Annex as freedom to allow him to license a wider variety of pistols within the existing legislation . He re-issued my pistol license in one week from application recently

Grizzly 45 · 02-03-2015 4:22pm

Has anyone read this months ISD?Specifically the submission by IFA /countryside??
Talk abou tramping in in your big dirty boots and shoving both into your stupid gob!!!

"There is no need for semi auto rifles as they have no sporting, target, or hunting value ."
Pistols should be on a three year apprenticeship and stored at the ranges until you have shot for three years then you can store at home....
Would someone tell these utter edjits that it is better to keep the gob shut if you dont know the full story and that there are more types of guns used here than farner murphys double barrel.While you are about it.Tell your members to go away and knock themselves out and buy a 60 euro gunsafe and stop giving criminals an opportunity to steal your guns and for AGS to hammer us all the time???
Very annoyed!
Grizzly

BoatMad · 02-03-2015 4:28pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Has anyone read this months ISD?Specifically the submission by IFA /countryside??
Talk abou tramping in in your big dirty boots and shoving both into your stupid gob!!!

"There is no need for semi auto rifles as they have no sporting, target, or hunting value ."
Pistols should be on a three year apprenticeship and stored at the ranges until you have shot for three years then you can store at home....
Would someone tell these utter edjits that it is better to keep the gob shut if you dont know the full story and that there are more typeas of guns used here than farner murphys double barrel.While you are about it.Tell your members to go away and kock themselves out and buy a 60 euro gunsafe and stop giving criminals an opportunity to steal your guns and for AGS to hammer us all the time???
Very annoyed!
Grizzly

The IFA always looks after its own and has never acknowledge the rights of anyone else. The foolish are this that think it would do otherwise

farmers are not our friends in this debate

hexosan · 02-03-2015 4:45pm

Limerick Sovereigns wrote: »

In the opinion of posters, is there any point in applying for a licence (not a renewal) for a Hammerli Xesse at the moment?

In the absence of the old "approved pistols list" (I know, I know) can it now be legitimately refused under the clause that bans pistols that look like "law enforcement" pistols. Sorry but I can't find the relevant SI.

Thanks in advance.

If you satisfy the regulations and have a legitimate reason but are refused at the whim of the super what are your grounds for an appeal.

Sparks · 02-03-2015 4:47pm

hexosan wrote: »

If you satisfy the regulations and have a legitimate reason but are refused at the whim of the super what are your grounds for an appeal.

How do you know it's at the whim of the super? You have to ask for his grounds for refusal in writing and pursue it from there (and seriously, you'll want professional legal advice and it will not be cheap).

BoatMad · 02-03-2015 4:51pm

hexosan wrote: »

If you satisfy the regulations and have a legitimate reason but are refused at the whim of the super what are your grounds for an appeal.

unfortunately , you don't decide the " legitimate reason" the super does and its part of the difficulties of the current legislation

Grizzly 45 · 02-03-2015 5:47pm

For those who would like a word with IFA/Countryside about their comments on pistols and semi rifles

countryside@ifa.ie
Have emailed them telling them I am cancelling my IFA/Countryside insurance membership and am encouraging any individual and club who has it not to renew if this is their attitude to handguns and Semi rifles.Expressed my disgust at their ill informed and written,attempting to save their asses excuse of a submission too.:mad:

Nekarsulm · 02-03-2015 6:12pm

I have also emailed a letter of protest to them, and requested a call from a member of the executive to explain this disgrace full policy.

BattleCorp · 02-03-2015 6:16pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Has anyone read this months ISD?Specifically the submission by IFA /countryside??
Grizzly

I didn't read the ISD article you are talking about as I don't have a copy of ISD to hand.

What submission is it that you are talking about? Did they submit those comments to the Dail Committee or Justice Committee?

Grizzly 45 · 02-03-2015 6:31pm

Apprently yes that was in their submissions to the Dail and or Justice comittee.:mad:
Have also emailed NARGC sports colation about this as well.

wexfordman2 · 02-03-2015 8:35pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Has anyone read this months ISD?Specifically the submission by IFA /countryside??
Talk abou tramping in in your big dirty boots and shoving both into your stupid gob!!!

"There is no need for semi auto rifles as they have no sporting, target, or hunting value ."
Pistols should be on a three year apprenticeship and stored at the ranges until you have shot for three years then you can store at home....
Would someone tell these utter edjits that it is better to keep the gob shut if you dont know the full story and that there are more types of guns used here than farner murphys double barrel.While you are about it.Tell your members to go away and knock themselves out and buy a 60 euro gunsafe and stop giving criminals an opportunity to steal your guns and for AGS to hammer us all the time???
Very annoyed!
Grizzly

I dont get that at all. It is illegal to use a pistol outside of your range, so why after three years are you suddenly trusted not to break the law ?

And if you are not trusted to not break the law, then why would they give you a pistol licence in the first place.

Seems like a mad proposal, or else someone just wanting to put words on paper and nothing else.

TBH, I felt the whole approach overall was a bit disjointed and disorganised.

There was no organised communication campaign by any of the organisations. When you suggest that a letter be sent to very member of a gun club to inform them, the response was that would cost money.

When you raise issues like the item that the gardai wish to be able to refuse a licence based on crime levels, the general response was that that was not the most critical issue, whereas to my mind it was one of the most critical as it affected absolutely everyone.

Wadi14 · 03-03-2015 12:54am

Limerick Sovereigns wrote: »

In the opinion of posters, is there any point in applying for a licence (not a renewal) for a Hammerli Xesse at the moment?

In the absence of the old "approved pistols list" (I know, I know) can it now be legitimately refused under the clause that bans pistols that look like "law enforcement" pistols. Sorry but I can't find the relevant SI.

Thanks in advance.

I got my Hammerli X-esse pistol licence granted just before Christmas, What I did prior to applying was ring the FO and see what the Super's view was, he wanted a non monitored alarm and a secure transit box, and a visit from the CPO and that's what he got.

yubabill1 · 03-03-2015 9:33am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Apprently yes that was in their submissions to the Dail and or Justice comittee.:mad:
Have also emailed NARGC sports colation about this as well.

Well done, Griz.

I won't pretend not to understand the mindset in the submissions, because I know and avoid the type regularly.

Just to say, they are going to understand the philosophy of "united we stand" when Finian, Sean, Padraig and maybe another one or two get their way with gunsafes for shotguns lying in barns and around the yard.

Time to stick together like never before, mostly because it's working for now.

I will have 20.00 with anyone who thinks that these proposals are going anywhere before the election - the danger is after the election and boils down to the attitude of the new MoJE.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Gardai proposals to ban firearms

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County