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M11 - Arklow to Rathnew

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13567…61

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    #62
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,575 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Parochial small minded local politics wins the day again I see.:rolleyes:

    That's one of the things that is so wrong about this little country of ours.:mad:


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    #63
    King Kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭King Kelly


    Perhaps Cllr. Allen is less disposed to the N11 upgrades in Wicklow as, unlike the recent Gorey bypass, none of his family land will benefit from any rezoning opportunities there!




    http://www.ireland.com/focus/commuter/5.html

    Quote from article below

    " Although a significant portion of the town's development has been happening outside its official boundary, the plan says it is the county council's policy to adopt a "clear boundary to development" to ensure that Gorey grows in a planned fashion and lay down a "clear demarcation line" to prevent it merging with Courtown. How then can it explain or justify a decision to rezone a parcel of 47 acres of land at Raheenagurren, on the Courtown road, outside this elastic development boundary, for "commercial and mixed land uses"? Or the decision to extend the boundary northwards to incorporate another parcel of land at Ballyloughan on the N11?

    Some 35 of the 47 acres at Raheenagurren is owned by the elderly mother of Cllr Lorcan Allen, a minister of state during the Haughey era. He chaired the council's four-member Gorey district committee which decided to rezone it, but absented himself when the decision was taken and insisted there was "no stroke-pulling" involved.

    The other members of the committee were Michael D'Arcy TD (FG), Deirdre Bolger (FG) and Joe Murphy (FF). They would have been well aware that the Allen land was close to an interchange on the future Gorey bypass, and it was a specific objective of the area plan that sites along the bypass be reserved for strategic development.

    The decision caused outrage locally as it was made without any public consultation. Neither the lands at Raheenagurren nor Ballyloughan had been proposed for zoning when the draft plan was put on public exhibition in late 2001. They were simply added to the plan and ratified by the full council without going back on public display.

    "It's crazy that something like this, which has such a long-term impact for the town, can take place without people knowing," says Malcolm Byrne, a Fianna Fáil member of Gorey Town Council. What worries the local chamber of commerce is that the Raheenagurren site could now be developed for a major out-of-town shopping centre.


    ...and yes the cllr. D'arcy that provokes such ire in cllr Allen at the moment is the cllr D'arcy who rubberstamped the rezoning.


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    #64
    PoolDude
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭PoolDude


    PoolDude wrote: »
    Traditionally the NRA publish a list of projects that will be ongoing or started during each year at the start of the year. Haven't seen it for this year yet but wonder if the Rathnew to Arklow section will get funded.


    And so they have!

    Arklow - Rathnew will go to Tender in 2008 (I guess that means construction starts next year)

    Enniscorthy Bypass will go to CPO/EIS this year. No mention of whether this is Clogh to Oilgate or the original Enniscorthy bypass plan.


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    #65
    ian_m
    Registered Users Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭ian_m


    PoolDude wrote: »
    And so they have!

    Arklow - Rathnew will go to Tender in 2008 (I guess that means construction starts next year)

    That's good news.


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    #66
    PoolDude
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭PoolDude


    Anyone hear anything about the Arklow - Rathnew Tender yet?

    They must be waiting till the end of the year at this rate!


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    #67
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    PoolDude wrote: »
    They must be waiting till the end of the year at this rate!

    It may be tendered in 2010 with construction to start in 2011 in time for the election ....if you are very very lucky.

    Its been pulled along with the N18 Galway - Ennis road and the Newlands Cross job in the cutbacks.

    From Noel Dempseys announcement in January
    The tender process for the construction of the N11 Arklow/Rathnew scheme will commence in 2008.This project represents the last remaining link in the N11 Dublin to Gorey route.

    Whereas the N18 and Newlands cross jobs were supposed to start construction this year but were pulled recently ....and they are ahead of the N11 on the list .

    It may be complete in 5 years or so but only if they start the tender process in 2010.


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    #68
    PoolDude
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭PoolDude


    Was there confirmation that this years tender process for the N11 has been pulled?


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    #69
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Nope. A lot of this is still speculation and assumptions.


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    #70
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Nope. A lot of this is still speculation and assumptions.

    You follow the money then Chris, always follow the money !

    Simply Go here p 25 and top of p26.

    There are €5bn worth of National roads under construction all of which are to be paid up by 2010

    Of the €5bn worth some €2bn has been spent up to Feb 2008 so a further €3bn is due in 2008 2009 and 2010

    €3bn is cool , the NRA gets €1.5bn a year .

    Add to that the alleged starts in 2008 if not cut from the program

    €400m worth of N18 , €200m worth of 36km of Nenagh - Castletown on the N7 then 2 long N9 projects either side of Carlow for another €400m , so thats another €1bn to take spending to €4bn and due to be finished by end 2010.

    The NRA gets €1.5bn a year so thats still cool, but

    1. Where is the M50 Phase 3? ( It may have finished by February and was small anyway ( N4-N3) )
    2. Where is N11 north of Arklow €100m ish that if it ever happens .
    3. Where are the €200m odd a year bits of planning and archaelology and land purchases and test borings and what nots = €600m over 3 years .
    4. The Galway bypass , €350m , hah hah ha ha ha <cough> sorry .
    5. Where are the annual PPP payments on UNTOLLED sections to come from if there is no toll ??
    6. Where is Road Maintenance and signage in all this ??
    7. Tullamore is to be bypassed , lets not worry about that bit .


    1. 2. and 3. and 4. amount to €1.05bn which when added to the €4bn
    gives €5.05bn along with the unquantifiable but will not go away 5. and 6. and 7.

    The NRA gets €1.5bn a year so thats still cool, but WHOAHHH .

    €5.05Bn divided by 3 is €1.7bn a year more like and we all know the NRA never got €1.7Bn in a year not even when things were good.

    Things are not good now so of course they will get €1.7bn in each of these not so good years, won't they Chris .

    Arklow will be cool , the NRA will be cool with Arklow. Money they seem not to have must be found for Arklow and for Galway too don't forget .

    Follow the money Chris , always follow the money.

    You should also believe in your heart that Dick Roche and the Government Ministers who live in Wicklow and Wexford have the political muscle to see you guys through .

    And if you do magic up some Money then please consider sharing it with Galway , there's a good chap :cool:


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    #71
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    You follow the money...
    TLDR :)

    Thanks for the maths Sponge. A simpler way of putting it is that over the last 3 years, the NRA has had a budget of 1.4-1.7 bill per year.

    This has been enough to have 5-10 interurban motorways on the go each year PLUS another 4 or 5 new motorway starts each year.

    Considering the allocation this year is 1.7 bill, and 2009/2010's allocations will be a little less but still in the 1.5 area, this still allows for the 4 or 5 new starts each year. Nothing stopping M18/M19/N11 remaining schemes going ahead, then.


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    #72
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    PoolDude wrote: »
    Yet despite the dangerous drivers there is still no word on the Rathnew/Arklow section going to tender!

    There is no money for it , like I said weeks ago.

    There will be no money next year either.


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    #73
    NedNew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭NedNew


    Well it's out to tender now...

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JUN103478

    The design and construction of approximately 16.5 km of new dual carriageway standard National Primary Road linking the N11 Arklow Bypass dual carriageway (completed in 1999) with the N11 Ashford Rathnew Bypass (completed in 2004). The contract also consists of the provision of two grade separated Interchanges near the Beehive Junction and the Jack White’s Junction of the existing N11, the realignment and construction of new sections of the existing N11 to form an all purpose single carriageway road parallel to the dual carriageway and the construction of three overbridges, four underbridges and one cattle underpass. The Contract will also consist of the realignment of Regional and Local Roads, the construction of new local roads and the construction of accommodation roads. The standard dual carriageway cross section is comprised of 4 no. travelling lanes, 2 no. hard shoulders, 2 no. verges and a central reserve. The works also include the design and construction of associated drainage, accommodation works, fencing, ducting, signs, ancillary works, diversions of public and private services, lighting, landscaping and environmental works.


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    #74
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    NedNew wrote: »
    Well it's out to tender now...

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JUN103478

    The design and construction of approximately 16.5 km of new dual carriageway standard National Primary Road linking the N11 Arklow Bypass dual carriageway (completed in 1999) with the N11 Ashford Rathnew Bypass (completed in 2004). The contract also consists of the provision of two grade separated Interchanges near the Beehive Junction and the Jack White’s Junction of the existing N11, the realignment and construction of new sections of the existing N11 to form an all purpose single carriageway road parallel to the dual carriageway and the construction of three overbridges, four underbridges and one cattle underpass. The Contract will also consist of the realignment of Regional and Local Roads, the construction of new local roads and the construction of accommodation roads. The standard dual carriageway cross section is comprised of 4 no. travelling lanes, 2 no. hard shoulders, 2 no. verges and a central reserve. The works also include the design and construction of associated drainage, accommodation works, fencing, ducting, signs, ancillary works, diversions of public and private services, lighting, landscaping and environmental works.

    Good God Ned you are right :eek: , but do I detect a booby trap here ????

    II.2.1)

    Total quantity or scope

    The design and construction of approximately 16.5 km of new dual carriageway standard National Primary Road linking the N11 Arklow Bypass dual carriageway (completed in 1999) with the N11 Ashford Rathnew Bypass (completed in 2004). The contract also consists of the provision of two grade separated Interchanges near the Beehive Junction and the Jack White’s Junction of the existing N11, the realignment and construction of new sections of the existing N11 to form an all purpose single carriageway road parallel to the dual carriageway and the construction of three overbridges, four underbridges and one cattle underpass. The Contract will also consist of the realignment of Regional and Local Roads, the construction of new local roads and the construction of accommodation roads. The standard dual carriageway cross section is comprised of 4 no. travelling lanes, 2 no. hard shoulders, 2 no. verges and a central reserve. The works also include the design and construction of associated drainage, accommodation works, fencing, ducting, signs, ancillary works, diversions of public and private services, lighting, landscaping and environmental works. Scope will also include specifications contained in the tender documents.



    Estimated value excluding VAT: 87,000,000
    Currency: EUR

    There is no chance that they will get a bid for €87m for all that . €5m a km for Dual Carriageway


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    #75
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Astounding , the NRA found a few quid somewhere then :eek: .

    I was told by my excellent sources this had been pulled from 2008 along with the N18 projects and not forgetting the redesign that will put the N17 Claregalway and Tuam Bypasses back to 2015, earliest .


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    #76
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    All the land has been bought, fenced off and several houses have been knocked already, this route is more advanced than the N/M17
    that's great news it's gone to tender.
    Hopefully the "good people of Wicklow and Wexford vote yes...." :)

    I guess we'll see after the 3rd Oct
    IV.3.5)
    Date of dispatch of invitations to tender or to participate to selected candidates
    Estimated date 03-10-2008


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    #77
    PoolDude
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭PoolDude


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    All the land has been bought, fenced off and several houses have been knocked already, this route is more advanced than the N/M17
    that's great news it's gone to tender.
    Hopefully the "good people of Wicklow and Wexford vote yes...." :)

    I guess we'll see after the 3rd Oct
    IV.3.5)
    Date of dispatch of invitations to tender or to participate to selected candidates
    Estimated date 03-10-2008


    So, If I'm reading this right by October 3rd they will have a shortlist who they will begin final/detailed negotiations with. I'm guessing this process takes a few months before selection and commencement would likely be Q1 2009 earliest. Add 2 years, minus them coming in ahead of shcedule and optomistically we are looking at pre Christmas 2010.


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    #78
    Quadra
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Quadra


    Great to see this tender finally released. Praise be.

    Aside from the bottleneck that it is, this evil peice of road has claimed so many lives over the years, I'm really glad it's days are finally numbered.

    I'm still trying to get my hands on the full route plan / map. From the text description of the route in the environmental assessment years ago, it seemed to me that it will be a 'Glen of the Downs' type job (minus the folks in the trees I hope): the majority of the works very close to the existing N11.

    No pain, no gain. The full tender notice states 36 months maximum works period, but they'll probably have it done in less than that.


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    #79
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Am well glad that this one is moving forward. It isn't acceptable to have a gap between two duallers like this. The N11 has been making good progress over the years even though its upgrade has never really been a major priority.

    I'll be surprised if it's finished by 2010 though, that's cutting it a bit fine.


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    #80
    PoolDude
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭PoolDude


    Yeah, the fatality rate on that stretch must be one of the highest on any stretch of national route in the country.


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    #81
    Quadra
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Quadra


    I try to be optimistic but the chances that the Arklow/Rathnew scheme gets biffed in the budget next week have to be high.

    They'd be mad to cut it (again) but given the trade-offs of health, education, welfare, don't be surprised.

    Dunno if anyone has any other info on the capital allocation for the scheme (my point is it may be already 'spent' from a budget year perspective), and maybe the procurement process has an affect on the obligation to proceed (unlikely I think).....

    Ho hum. Guess we'll just have to see what next week brings.....g'wan there Brian, get the flippin' thing built.


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    #82
    Quadra
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Quadra


    This from the Wicklow People last week:

    Road upgrades are still sought

    Wednesday October 08 2008

    DELAYS in vital upgrades to the most dangerous stretch of road in the county have been blamed for almost daily road traffic accidents in certain sections.

    At this week's meeting of Wicklow County Council members were informed that a study of the section of road between Arklow and Rathnew must be carried out before long awaited works can commence. The study itself would cost in the region of an estimated €150,000.

    'This is the fourth or fifth year that we have received the very same promises and nothing has happened,' said Cllr. Nicky Kelly.

    'There have been countless serious accidents after which we get crocodile tears from the government and then nothing happens. We must be realistic. Now with massive cuts it won't be done in the short term. We are fooling ourselves as this is only a ploy,' he added.

    Cllr. Jimmy O'Shaugnessy was of a similar opinion and told fellow members not to be fooled.

    'We will see more fatalities there. These studies are only a waste of public funding. I doubt Minister Gormley will be down on his bicycle to see the state of the N11.'

    Director of Services Seamus Walker informed members that a scientific study is required to identify problems and solutions.

    'I am optimistic that we will not be led up the hill to be marched back down again. We will know when the budget is out. We are going ahead on the basis that we will build the road. I will keep going until I am told I cannot go any further,' he said, as he urged members not to lose all hope."


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    #83
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Arklow - Rathnew was cancelled according to Newstalk or RTE Radio news this evening.


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    #84
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    More 'not mentioned specifically in the budget speech' rather than 'cancelled'. It could easily still be cancelled though!


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    #85
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    They read out a list of cancelled projects including Arlow Rathnew and Athenry Gort and Castleisland in Kerry .


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    #86
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    The budget speech was quite vague...

    It highlighted the general idea of what they wanted to do this year, but it gave no concrete details on what has been postponed or cancelled.

    EDIT: Did they Sponge Bob? Where can I find this list?


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    #87
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    .

    EDIT: Did they Sponge Bob? Where can I find this list?

    Sorry man , someone else heard the same news item as me is all I can tell you , see.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57579100&postcount=27

    It was a 'briefing' by the department of Transport that was being covered on the news. I remembered the ones I posted .

    I was busy swerving to hit a cat at the time :p


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    #88
    Quadra
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Quadra


    The N11 Arklow-Rathnew deferral gets coverage in the Indo this morning.

    Basically, work won't start until 2010 at the earliest.

    At least another 4 to 5 years of that savage piece of road. Give me patience.

    Article:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget-2009/the-measures/metro-powers-ahead-but-major-road-projects-suffer-1498939.html


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    #89
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,675 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Quadra wrote: »
    The N11 Arklow-Rathnew deferral gets coverage in the Indo this morning.

    Basically, work won't start until 2010 at the earliest.

    At least another 4 to 5 years of that savage piece of road. Give me patience.
    Given that this is a particularly dangerous stretch of road, I am surprised about this deferment. It flies in the face of a supposed commitment to road safety.


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    #90
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Yeah I can understand Carrigtwohill - Midleton getting the chop (its DC already and I think they're closing the medians anyway), Gort - Athenry isnt **too** bad. Gort - Crusheen is badly needed to bypass Gort and Crusheen.

    But the N11 scheme I am surprised about. I thought Gort - Crusheen would get the chop over that one, or would the west kick up a fuss then?


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    #91
    PoolDude
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭PoolDude


    It would be interesting to see how the fataility stats stack up on the projects above and below the line.


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