M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

BluntGuy · 04-08-2009 12:02pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The PPP is design & build so I guess they have the option, however without requiring more CPOs and possibly another EIS it would be a big delay in designing anything else (except a Cloverleaf, which Irish drivers could never be able to handle).

I doubt it would require significant more CPOs and environmental impacts wouldn't be any more adverse than a huge roundabout if they went for a whirlpool or cloverleaf. There's just no real need for such idiocy when it can be rectified now. It won't really affect the tendering process all that much.

I don't think a "design and build" would allow them to significantly change a junction design. If it did, they'd just go for the lowest cost option and crash all the motorways together at an at-grade mini-roundabout or something.

Tech3 · 04-08-2009 12:05pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The PPP is design & build so I guess they have the option, however without requiring more CPOs and possibly another EIS it would be a big delay in designing anything else (except a Cloverleaf, which Irish drivers could never be able to handle).

Yeah this is going to construction next year and the the last thing we want to see is more delays. I hate this drawn out PPP process. It should have been prioritised ahead of the M3 in the first place.

Anyone want to bet on the M17/M18 scheme not going ahead next year?

BluntGuy · 04-08-2009 12:10pm

tech2 wrote: »

Anyone want to bet on the M17/M18 scheme not going ahead next year?

I'll grimly take that bet.

I reckon they'll find a way to push it back.

Mid 2011 is the earliest I can see it happening.

Chris_533976 · 04-08-2009 2:44pm

Yeah their target date for contract signing is late 2010.

However, I can still see this one being pushed. Its the first of the PPPs that will be ready to go, and since its the end of 2010 and the interurbans are supposadly finished by Dec 31 2010, I cant see the government not having any roads being built at a given time. Castleisland will probably (?) be done by then and Crush - Gort will be done.

I really cant see the roads loving FF government having absolutely nothing under construction in early 2011, and this one is the closest to starting. (Unless a piss easy scheme like Longford or Carrg-Midleton being magically revived to have something quick and cheap ready to go)

Edit: Just checked.

Everything in the "Under construction" list on the NRA website is scheduled to be done by end 2010 except for Castleisland (Q1 2011) and Crusheen - Gort (Q2 2011). The latter will probably be really done by Races 2010 and Castleisland by Q4 2010 at a guess. With the exception of one of the N7s (which may be rushed to make the 'end of 2010 for the interurbans' thing), there will be nothing in construction in early 2011 unless the PPPs get signed on time.

Despite all the financial woes, I cant see the Road Loving FF government allowing that. Something will start, most likely M17/18 PPP or Newlands/N11.

Tech3 · 29-08-2009 3:36pm

Plea for private funds to plug €1bn roads shortfall

It also emerged last night that the private sector will be asked to fund €1bn worth of key motorway projects because the National Roads Authority (NRA) has run out of money to build new roads.

The NRA will be looking for expressions of interest from the private sector to fund key roads on the west and east coasts.

They include the €100m upgrade of Newlands Cross in Dublin which will allow traffic from Cork and Limerick to access the M50 without having to stop at traffic lights.

The four schemes going to the market are:

A 53km motorway from Gort in Co Galway to Tuam. It is planned to eventually extend the road to Letterkenny.
A 16km motorway from Arklow to Rathnew.
Upgrading of the Newlands Cross junction on the N7, estimated to cost €100m.
A 43km motorway linking Gorey to Enniscorthy in Co Wexford, bypassing Enniscorthy and New Ross. An Bord Pleanala will hold a public hearing next month on this scheme.

But a NRA spokesman insisted none of the new roads -- assuming that funding can be sourced -- will be tolled.

"Our strategy is that we have reduced funding and have anticipated difficulty in funding road schemes," he said.

"The reduced funding will present difficulties but we've a very good track record on PPPs (public private partnerships) having already raised €2bn.

"We have no proposals to toll these roads, they won't be tolled. We would look at traffic volumes and the economics of it and you won't have the traffic volumes (for tolling). They will be paid for in instalments.

"The economic climate has changed but we're confident the private sector will recognise the benefit of these schemes and we will honour our commitments. We are optimistic the money will come and obviously there's jobs for the construction industry."

Slashed

The NRA has seen its funding cut from €1.6bn in 2007 to €1.44bn this year. Most of this money is earmarked for completion of the motorway network next year -- which will see motorways linking Dublin with Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway completed -- and next year's budget is expected to be slashed.

Link

Nothing we already know tbh.

Chris_533976 · 29-08-2009 4:06pm

It also emerged last night that the private sector will be asked to fund €1bn worth of key motorway projects because the National Roads Authority (NRA) has run out of money to build new roads.

Oh my god what a relevelation!

Weve known about this for how long? Guess the Independant dont go to the NRA website.

Sponge Bob · 29-08-2009 5:42pm

What class of a complete divvy writes that "The NRA will be looking for expressions of interest from the private sector to fund key roads on the west and east coasts." when they tendered for this ppp money 6 month ago ????

One wonders whether they are about to re tender ???

Chris_533976 · 29-08-2009 8:10pm

Well in a sense yes, I think so. The tender that was out a while back I think was for expressions of interest or pre-tenders. Soon (not sure of the timescale off the top of my head), it'll be tender proper. I think anyway, I could be wrong about all this.

Curious Geroge · 06-09-2009 5:57pm

Wondering if anyone is more up to date on this new road.. Has it started, is iot going ahead ? and will it link into the dublin galway road thats currently been completed from oranmore to doughiska.

N17/ N18 Gort to Tuam
(approx. 53 km of motorway/ dual carriageway).

http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/PublicPrivatePartnership/file,16119,en.pdf

"LENGTH:57 KM Motorway/Dual Carriageway
The development of a high quality dual carriageeway/ motorway link between Letterkenny and Waterford (Atlantic Corridor) is a specific objective of the National Development Plan (NDP) 2007 – 2013 and the proposed N17/N18 PPP Scheme represents a part of the proposed network.
The N17/N18 PPP Scheme replaces the existing N17 and N18 providing bypasses for the towns of Clarinbridge, Claregalway and Tuam where significant delays frequently occur. The project will significantly improve safety, reduce journeytimes, improve connectivity within the western region and significantly assist in the economic development of BMW (Border, Midlands and Western) regions."

more info hear..

http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/RoadProjects/m17/

galwayrush · 06-09-2009 6:07pm

Limerick to Athenry and possibly to Tuam is apparently going to go ahead .
I'd prefer a Limerick to Galway , then onto Tuam Motorway but the powers that be have decided to keep it too far away from Galway to be as effective as it could be.:rolleyes:

dec25532 · 06-09-2009 10:50pm

It is being constructed on a public private partnership basis and the tenders for the project have been shortlisted. The compulsory purchase orders have been approved but it will take a lot of money to purchase the land required for the road to proceed. Can't see it happening within the next five years. It is supposed to intersect the main M6 motorway at Rathmorrissey (near Athenry) but according to roads officials with Galway County Council, it is a long way off.

Curious Geroge · 06-09-2009 11:40pm

Fencing seems to be underway buy have'nt heard of any land been brought up yet.. Would'nt the land be a compulsory purchase thereby allowing the NRA to set a price that best suits them. On this, does everyone get the same value or does each fight there own battle ?

Tech3 · 07-09-2009 10:47am

I was actually going to start a thread on this at some stage. It is planned to start Q4 2010 if everything goes to plan which it probably wont. Funding is the key word nowadays.

BluntGuy · 07-09-2009 10:55am

Good thread, I think it'll be a good idea to keep tabs on this scheme because it's looking like this is the one that'll give us indications as to where the other PPPs will end up.

http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/SecondPPPRoadsProgramme/

Tech3 · 07-09-2009 10:58am

Could the OP rename it to M17/M18 as it was redesignated please? I will be extremely happy if it goes ahead. Here is the map of the scheme:

Tech3 · 07-09-2009 11:21am

Consortia list for the PPP contract

In January 2009 the Authority published the OJEU contract notice for the first of these schemes, the N17/N18 Gort to Tuam PPP Scheme. The Authority received seven expressions of interest for this competition. A detailed evaluation of these submissions was completed and the shortlisted consortia along with their constituent members are as follows:

Name of Consortia Members of Consortia
1 BAM Balfour Beatty BAM PPP
Balfour Beatty Capital Ltd
2 Direct Route Allied Irish Bank
Strabag SE
John Sisk & Sons (Holdings) Ltd
Roadbridge
Lagan Construction Limited
3 Eurolink (N17/N18 Consortium)
Cintra Concesiones De Infrastructuras de Transporte S.A.
SIAC Construction Ltd
4 GASTA Roads Global Via Infraestructuras S. A.
Macquarie Capital Group Limited
P.Elliott & Company Ltd
Wills Bros Ltd

I would like Direct Route to carry out the construction as Roadbridge are on the list.

Sponge Bob · 07-09-2009 11:45am

Tech3 · 07-09-2009 12:58pm

I posted this also on the N18 Ennis-Galway thread:

The overall construction price of the Gort to Tuam PPP scheme (inclusive of design costs and land costs) is in the region of €700 million. In relation to private funding for the new PPP schemes, the current market conditions make the raising of private funding difficult. However, PPP deals are still being concluded around Europe. In the case of the Irish PPP road schemes, these deal will not conclude until about Q3/Q4 of next year at which stage the financial markets may be in a better place.

We should know if this will go ahead by mid next year.

Chris_533976 · 07-09-2009 6:11pm

FWIW Gort to Athenry is CPOed and fenced off. It was CPOed around the same time as Crusheen - Gort.

M17 Athenry to Tuam I dont think has been paid for yet land-wise.

Tuam bypass is still with ABP as it was originally approved as an S2 but the NRA naturally want it as 2+2.

westtip · 08-09-2009 3:26pm

I am getting an error message from the NRA website when I click on the N17 Oranmore - Gort section and on the N18 Tuam bypass section - have the NRA removed any updates to these projects?

Tech3 · 08-09-2009 4:01pm

Why is there a toll in the tags below?

There is going to be no toll on this road.

Sponge Bob wrote:

<santa hat on> Ho! Ho! Ho! <santa hat off>

We can wish for it anyway!

. Something tells me that Dempsey probably wont be on next years christmas card list.

BluntGuy · 08-09-2009 4:28pm

M17 Athenry to Tuam I dont think has been paid for yet land-wise.

Who's going to be paying for that? I don't think the PPP contractor is obliged to cough up the cash to purchase land.

If the NRA can't find the cash to aquire the land, the scheme stalls regardless of whether PPP investment is finalised.

tech2 wrote: »

We can wish for it anyway! . Something tells me that Dempsey probably wont be on next years christmas card list.

Who knows, maybe he'll still get a card from me.

It won't say "Merry Christmas" though.

The Word Is Bor · 08-09-2009 5:14pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

Who's going to be paying for that? I don't think the PPP contractor is obliged to cough up the cash to purchase land.

If the NRA can't find the cash to aquire the land, the scheme stalls regardless of whether PPP investment is finalised.

The local authority/NRA/exchequer has to fund the purchase of the lands so that they can be handed over to the concessionaire to build the road.

Chris_533976 · 08-09-2009 5:48pm

Yeah basically the government pays for the land, and the concessionaire builds the road.

Tech3 · 09-09-2009 12:09pm

Just thought I would mention the following:

This route when complete will benefit traffic from Limerick to the Sligo/Donegal areas the most. This scheme would reduce journey times dramatically along with the Shannon Tunnel and Gort-Crusheen improvements.

Current it takes:
Limerick-Sligo 3hr 7 mins

When all schemes are complete:
Limerick-Sligo 2hr 20mins

I reckon this road will attract a lot more traffic when complete. It provides the people of the North west of Ireland easier access to the midwest and south.

Curious Geroge · 09-09-2009 10:27pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Yeah basically the government pays for the land, and the concessionaire builds the road.

Any idea of the compulsary price per arce ?

spacetweek · 10-09-2009 7:05pm

The project will get underway in Jan 2011 (from PPP updates - adding 3 months to contract award). It will open in July 2013 assuming a 2.5 year build time.

Chris_533976 · 10-09-2009 8:30pm

IF the government can pay the CPOs for the Rathmorrisey to Tuam sections and IF the PPP bidder can get funding from a bank, a big if with Ireland collapsing credit ratings.

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Any idea of the compulsary price per arce ?

Fraid not

Its dropped but I have no idea. The M17 shouldnt be TOO much though as it goes through the middle of nowhere basically, but that still might be too much for the government

Curious Geroge · 10-09-2009 9:32pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Fraid not Its dropped but I have no idea. The M17 shouldnt be TOO much though as it goes through the middle of nowhere basically, but that still might be too much for the government

Local rumours seem to be between 12 and 20K per arce which seems very high. Is this not public knowledge that should be available from NRA / County Council or alike ? Seems strange if its not since its tax euro thats paying it..

L1011 · 10-09-2009 11:04pm

tech2 wrote: »

Could the OP rename it to M17/M18 as it was redesignated please? I will be extremely happy if it goes ahead. Here is the map of the scheme:

Why does that map show a bit of the Galway City Outer Bypass as being part of the M6 (the M6 is shown terminating on the N17, not the existing N6...)

Chris_533976 · 11-09-2009 5:24pm

Idiocy I'd imagine

The Word Is Bor · 11-09-2009 8:55pm

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Local rumours seem to be between 12 and 20K per arce which seems very high. Is this not public knowledge that should be available from NRA / County Council or alike ? Seems strange if its not since its tax euro thats paying it..

Each individual agreement between the landowner and local authority is confidential. Just becuase one landowner get's X/acre that doesn't mean that someone else will get X/acre. Each individual's circumstance is different- total acres to be CPO'd, current usage, degree of severance, injurious affection etc.

Curious Geroge · 12-09-2009 10:49pm

http://www.galwaynews.ie/8699-connolly-calls-bypass-039money-down-drain039

Maybe we wont be seeing the new road after all..

BluntGuy · 12-09-2009 10:55pm

Curious Geroge wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/8699-connolly-calls-bypass-039money-down-drain039

Maybe we wont be seeing the new road after all..

An interesting piece. This is more specifically about the Galway Bypass than the M17/M18 scheme. Although her rationale:

The country is stone broke anyway

Applies to every road scheme.

murphaph · 12-09-2009 11:11pm

She's right that building roads doesn't solve urban congestion problems but it's a BYPASS not an urban road scheme. Galway should of course be bypassed at some stage, regardless of the provision of public transport. I would build it as a 2+2 bypass however, not as a motorway as there is absolutely no justification for motorway beyond Galway City so no point in the bypass being motorway standard either. Something similar to the Waterford Southern Ring Road would be grand for Galway, maybe with GSJs on the busier junctions and provision for GSJs elsewhere.

KevR · 13-09-2009 10:43pm

tech2 wrote: »

I reckon this road will attract a lot more traffic when complete. It provides the people of the North west of Ireland easier access to the midwest and south.

Not to mention people travelling to the likes of Tuam or Gort from Dublin or the Eastern region will use the M6 to Rathmorrissey and M17/18 to Tuam/Gort. Whereas before people would turn off in Athlone for Tuam or Loughrea (Ithink) for Gort.

Tuam and Gort are just examples, the same thinking applies to many places in North and South County Galway and beyond.

Zoney · 14-09-2009 9:46am

I'd have thought M17/M18 is less important than the M20. Yes the existing M18 was essential and the under construction part bypasses road worse than any part of the N20, but as far as I recall, the N18 north of Gort while poor should be adequate for the time being.

LFC Murphy · 14-09-2009 10:09am

Why have some sections of the tuam bypass route been fenced off?

serfboard · 14-09-2009 1:27pm

Zoney wrote: »

I'd have thought M17/M18 is less important than the M20. Yes the existing M18 was essential and the under construction part bypasses road worse than any part of the N20, but as far as I recall, the N18 north of Gort while poor should be adequate for the time being.

Yes, the M20 should be ahead of the M18/17 for the following reasons:

1. Volume: Links two major centres of population (Vs M17 which doesn't).

2. Safety: The existing road, particularly between Croom and Mallow is shocking and dangerous for a "National Primary Route".

3. As you say, the N18 north of Gort is mostly a good road.

However,

1. Traffic volumes do support (in particular) the M17 part. (AADT:22K before N63, 14.5K after N63), with Claregalway being a particularly notorious bottleneck (which the M17 may or may not address, depending on your opinion).

2. From Cork->Mallow is a good stretch of road, (particularly northbound) with a lot of 2+1s.

3. We're particularly good at whinging in this part of the country if "Dublin" doesn't throw some money our way (cf. West-On-Track)

4. I want it!!!

(Surely a clincher).

Chris_533976 · 14-09-2009 5:30pm

The M20 should definately be before the M17/18.

Unfortunately the M20 doesnt passify the West. M17/18 will be prioritisied simply because its 'something happening in the west'.

Sponge Bob · 14-09-2009 6:22pm

I want it too and anyway it is 'ready' to build tomorrow unlike the M20 which cannot start to be built before 2012 /2013 .

Chris_533976 · 14-09-2009 6:28pm

Almost

Gort to Athenry is literally ready to go.
M17 to Tuam hasnt been CPOed AFAIK.
Tuam bypass is with AbPleanala. It was approved as an S2, they're looking to put it in as 2+2.

Tech3 · 14-09-2009 7:06pm

Both schemes are badly needed but this is going to be completed probably before the M20 hits construction.

I might take a few photos from Gort to Tuam on the current N18/N17 to keep this thread lively!

Tech3 · 18-09-2009 6:34pm

I was travelling the N17/N18 a few days ago and thought I would throw up a few photos of this awful road. As I passed through Clareglaway I encountered an average speed of 50km/hr all the way to Tuam.

Cammore Cross (N18)

Approaching T junction for the N17 in Claregalway

Stupid bus lane north of Claregalway (N17)

Stuck in traffic going a steady 20km/hr as a severe crash had taken place ahead

Bad traffic in Tuam for southbound traffic, I got lucky for once

I'll take a few better ones heading back down south

serfboard · 21-09-2009 6:49pm

Good photos, can't agree with ...

tech2 wrote: »

Stupid bus lane north of Claregalway (N17)

though.

ki · 22-09-2009 3:27pm

The original idea was to put in a central lane that would change direction at certain times of the day. :eek:

:eek:

Tech3 · 22-09-2009 3:47pm

serfboard wrote: »

Good photos, can't agree with ...

though.

It stretches too far out IMO and a slow lane would have been more adequate.

Chris_533976 · 22-09-2009 6:00pm

ki wrote: »

The original idea was to put in a central lane that would change direction at certain times of the day. :eek::eek:

Tidal flow works well in other countries, but I wouldnt trust it with Irish drivers.

serfboard · 22-09-2009 6:09pm

tech2 wrote: »

It stretches too far out IMO

I don't think so.

tech2 wrote: »

a slow lane would have been more adequate.

I don't agree. The lane gives priority to public transport as it should. It encourages public transport and discourages private transport. A slow lane would do the opposite and make no difference to the traffic situation in Claregalway.

One bad aspect of it is that the 50K limit is (IMO) too low, is not observed and is not enforced. And I don't think it's not enforced because the Guards can't be bothered, but I reckon it's because they don't agree with it. Who would? Even 60K might have been a bit better.

LFC Murphy · 25-09-2009 3:05pm

Sorry for repeating, but it may have been missed, but there are certain sections of the Tuam bypass which have, what looks like the 'official' fencing erected.

Does anyone know why? I thought that no CPO's had gone thru yet etc??

Thanks,

M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

Comments