M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

Middle Man · 21-11-2014 7:08pm

That said interchange proposal is not great but I seriously doubt it will be any major issue for at least a couple of decades. We just need the motorway like now. Then there's the m20...

KevR · 21-11-2014 7:13pm

Goofy wrote: »

I think adding 60 seconds to an average hour long journey to save millions of euro is more than acceptable. In fact I would strongly encourage it.

It's not just putting an on ramp and off ramp on four corners. It's buying a lot more land. It's cost and time of designing a much more complicated road layout. It's the cost and time in building a more complex design. It's more bridges. It's more complicated sweeping bridge design............. It's a lot more expensive.

Where is the evidence to suggest that full free-flow is more expensive than a 3-level stack? Many people in this thread are of the opinion that there is very little in cost difference. Some even think that the 3-level stack might be more expensive!

My belief is that the 3-level stacked roundabout was chosen because the NRA wanted to attach a Service Area onto the roundabout (easy to serve both the M17/18 and M6 with a single service area via a roundabout. Unrealistic to serve both routes with a single service area via a full free-flow).

Planning permission for the Service Area has been denied. Unfortunately, we are appear to be stuck with this out-dated junction design.

L1011 · 21-11-2014 7:20pm

Goofy wrote: »

It's not just putting an on ramp and off ramp on four corners. It's buying a lot more land. It's cost and time of designing a much more complicated road layout. It's the cost and time in building a more complex design. It's more bridges. It's more complicated sweeping bridge design............. It's a lot more expensive.

In most cases, a triple level stack uses - and wastes, as its unusable islands - more land than most modern equivalent interchanges.

The construction costs wouldn't be much higher as a new build either

The ONLY reason this was picked was to allow them to put the service station on it, which isn't happening.

csd · 21-11-2014 8:11pm

L1011 wrote: »

The ONLY reason this was picked was to allow them to put the service station on it, which isn't happening.

I've heard the NRA will be re-submitting planning permission for an MSA at this location.

/csd

Chris_5339762 · 21-11-2014 8:42pm

Feed Up wrote: »

Hi KevR,

The plans were there to build the M18 when the M6 was being built so I wonder was the M6 future proofed for linking to the M18 so as to avoid months upon months of cones/bollards, speed restrictions, lane closures, etc etc when they are being joined up. Someone please tell me they have.

Yes. M6 is wider at the junction location... but I guess there will be a few closures as they drop bridges in.

The nerds among you will also notice that all the bridges and median are wide enough between the M6/17/18 junction and Galway to take D3.

busyatwork · 23-11-2014 3:29pm

Only time will tell how the junction will work, if they get the rest of the road constructed,it will only be a minor issue out of a great road network .

AugustusMinimus · 23-11-2014 6:21pm

Goofy wrote: »

It's not the best design, but it's definitely much cheaper. I think it's safe to say that this junction won't see red cow levels of traffic in my lifetime. Why waste money on a free flow junction when its never going to be required?

Could you please back up your assertion that a 3 level stack is cheaper than a partially unrolled cloverleaf or the like.

Comparing both the designs (M20-M40 junction for instance) it looks to me that the current M6/M17/M18 is much more complex, will require a lot more earth works and in the end, will be much less efficient.

This is what is wrong in this country. Nothing can be done right originally. Every single car going from Tuam to Galway will have to access the roundabout. This is absolute madness and I will not back down in this assertion as I have done so already numerous times in this thread.

M6/M17/M18 junction

M20/M40 junction

You might let me know why the 3 level stack will be cheaper.

AugustusMinimus · 23-11-2014 6:25pm

Goofy wrote: »

There is no H&S issue. The merge and demerge lanes will be plenty long enough to allow safe acceleration and deceleration. The same as as any other junction. I think adding 60 seconds to an average hour long journey to save millions of euro is more than acceptable. In fact I would strongly encourage it.

It's not just putting an on ramp and off ramp on four corners. It's buying a lot more land. It's cost and time of designing a much more complicated road layout. It's the cost and time in building a more complex design. It's more bridges. It's more complicated sweeping bridge design............. It's a lot more expensive.

The hard shoulders on the M6 at the junction location are extremely wide in anticipation of the tie in with the new road. There will be some disruption but that's inevitable.

Please back up your assertions that

1. You would have to buy a lot more land
2. It is a much more complicated design
3. Its more bridges (in fact, my design shown above would involve less bridges)
4. It would be a lot more expensive.

It appears to me that the assertions you are making in this thread are nothing more than guess work, or worse.

Feed Up · 24-11-2014 12:07pm

Ok, my reference to H & S was probably a bit OTT.

My view is that I can't see the logic in putting a stop/go system on what should be effectively be a continuous 120kpm road. Transferring from one motorway to another should be seamless.

I do accept that putting in a MSA requires access from the motorways and the other roads. But there must be similar junctions/interchanges in the UK and on the continent that solve this problem without resorting to roundabouts and traffic lights.

spacetweek · 24-11-2014 1:49pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Comparing both the designs (M20-M40 junction for instance) it looks to me that the current M6/M17/M18 is much more complex, will require a lot more earth works and in the end, will be much less efficient.

Every single car going from Tuam to Galway will have to access the roundabout.

The proposed M20/M40 junction will be right next to an urban area and will need to handle far more traffic.
Tuam is a town of 3,000 people. The busiest movement in the 6/17/18 junction will probably be M6 Galway->M18 and vice versa. This would only require one freeflow slip to be built, should we ever need it.

serfboard · 24-11-2014 2:10pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Tuam is a town of 3,000 people. The busiest movement in the 6/17/18 junction will probably be M6 Galway->M18 and vice versa. This would only require one freeflow slip to be built, should we ever need it.

The first counter on the N17 (north of Claregalway) has a 2014 AADT of 21K - and this does not count all the cars that are rat-running around Claregalway ...

The first counter on the N18 (between Clarinbridge and Kilcolgan) has a 2014 AADT of 18K.

Feed Up · 24-11-2014 3:28pm

To eliminate the need for a three stack junction, roundabouts, traffic lights just simply build a cloverleaf junction. Then build two separate bridges with junctions, one from each motorway to access the MSA in one of the four corners. It would work with one bridge/junction but would be cumbersome and circuitous.

I would argue that this would not be as expensive as building the three stack junction.

busyatwork · 24-11-2014 6:27pm

Is the design finalised I thought the companies could change junctions and other parts when the scheme is a ,PPP design and build

spacetweek · 24-11-2014 6:35pm

Feed Up wrote: »

To eliminate the need for a three stack junction, roundabouts, traffic lights just simply build a cloverleaf junction. Then build two separate bridges with junctions, one from each motorway to access the MSA in one of the four corners. It would work with one bridge/junction but would be cumbersome and circuitous.

I would argue that this would not be as expensive as building the three stack junction.

Sound like a lot of bridges. A cloverleaf *and* two junctions?

Of course you could always just have an MSA somewhere in the middle of the M18, like at Ennis, and other on the M6 such as at Loughrea, and another on the M17 south of Tuam but there probably wouldn't be enough business for all that.

Feed Up · 24-11-2014 7:22pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Sound like a lot of bridges. A cloverleaf *and* two junctions?

Of course you could always just have an MSA somewhere in the middle of the M18, like at Ennis, and other on the M6 such as at Loughrea, and another on the M17 south of Tuam but there probably wouldn't be enough business for all that.

Not really:
The cloverleaf keeps the traffic moving.
Two junctions - one on each motorway dedicated to the MSA. One dedicated junction would also do it, but would necessitate exiting one motorway to get onto the other to get to the dedicated junction. A bit circuitous.

Of course if people want to go back to the state of the art planning that went into the M50 and the northern end of the JL Tunnel, to mention just two outstanding examples of road design, so be it.

Roll on motorway on-ramps with stop signs, the M1S joined to M50S with three sets of traffic lights, the old Red Cow junction and the old Liffey Valley junctions choked with traffic so let's build the M50/N2, the M50/N81, etc. junctions to the same design, three days after the M50/N7 junction opened the lads were back digging up the roads to put in traffic lights after being told by the consulting engineers (the wife's cousin worked on it) that the junction, as designed, would not be able to handle the traffic. There's a book in this I'm sure.

Somehow, I don't think three MSAs, or even two, would be viable.

veryangryman · 24-11-2014 10:09pm

I think the junction needs to be freeflow for 1 main reason. Claregalway traffic may be discouraged to do the longer route if it means possibly having to stop or slow during journey. As other poster mentions it seems we have learned little. Shades of Enfield bypass.

Zubeneschamali · 25-11-2014 10:03am

veryangryman wrote: »

Claregalway traffic may be discouraged to do the longer route if it means possibly having to stop or slow during journey.

No-one from Claregalway is going to drive to the new junction: it's as far from Galway as Claregalway is, and when you add the Tuam traffic and the Gort traffic to the motorway, it's going to be stop-start queues every rush hour all the way from the new junction to Briarhill anyhow.

It's all going to be a mess at least until they build the bypass.

spacetweek · 25-11-2014 1:30pm

The decision was made to create an M17 that was mainly about north-south traffic flows instead of bypassing CG. As such, a separate CG bypass is probably needed as Galway-CG traffic will indeed continue to use the old road.

busyatwork · 25-11-2014 2:23pm

spacetweek wrote: »

The decision was made to create an M17 that was mainly about north-south traffic flows instead of bypassing CG. As such, a separate CG bypass is probably needed as Galway-CG traffic will indeed continue to use the old road.

Didnt they always say a bypass of Claire galway was needed before the m17m18 moterway

veryangryman · 25-11-2014 3:23pm

While I do agree with your responses, there have been a lot of mentioning that this will somehow alleviate CG congestion. I guess that if Tuam and beyond commuters avoid CG, it will (a little). Being able to stick the boot down is a bit incentive over shorter distance but more time. A good example is the Motorway route that most sane Galweigans use to get to Belfast.

Chris_5339762 · 25-11-2014 6:54pm

Claregalway Inner Relief Road is what its called... buried somewhere back within the last 155 pages. Don't expect any movement on it until this is open.

busyatwork · 04-12-2014 5:24pm

any signs of work or any fencing or anything to beginne to show this road is at construction stage

D Trent · 04-12-2014 11:47pm

At the location where the 3 tier Junction/motorway crossover at Rathmorissey there are a few electricity pylons that are quite high.
Does anyone know how they are gonna work with them will the be moved ??

red bull · 05-12-2014 12:39am

Prelimary work going ahead in Tuam, paths being laid as far as junction of M17 & Tuam bypass

08-12-2014 6:33pm

Works have started where this will cross the R339.

I'll try grab some pics tomorrow and provide more details on the exact location. Didn't have time to stop today

LFC Murphy · 10-12-2014 12:03am

red bull wrote:

Prelimary work going ahead in Tuam, paths being laid as far as junction of M17 & Tuam bypass

was wondering about this. are you sure?

serfboard · 10-12-2014 2:17pm

red bull wrote: »

Prelimary work going ahead in Tuam, paths being laid as far as junction of M17 & Tuam bypass

LFC Murphy wrote: »

was wondering about this. are you sure?

This is almost complete now. I'd say it's going ahead because the bypass is going to start, but I doubt the money is coming from the main contract so I don't know if it would be technically correct to say it's prelimary work.

busyatwork · 10-12-2014 5:56pm

red bull wrote: »

Prelimary work going ahead in Tuam, paths being laid as far as junction of M17 & Tuam bypass

Is that all thats going on or is there any major work taken place yet

JCX BXC · 10-12-2014 6:51pm

So 7 months later, and people are sitting on their asses and not building the motorway. Ridiculous.

busyatwork · 10-12-2014 9:21pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

So 7 months later, and people are sitting on their asses and not building the motorway. Ridiculous.

Yes it appears that way , every time I have spoken to the main contractor it has being a different start date

15-12-2014 10:02pm

Apologies for the delay, was trying to get better pics. Below is the best I could manage safely as I came on the lights as the only car so could stop for a min across from the works. Unfortunately there's no hard shoulder along this stretch so there's nowhere handy to pull in (with the time I had available)

The works have started at this location - http://osm.org/go/esfb59d4-?m=

Its just after Dolmen Farm as you head towards Galway

When I drove through there today there was easily 20+ vehicles there of all shapes and sizes (dumpers, diggers, vans & worker 4x4's) but couldnt safely get any snaps. In the images below, where you see the white sign and the digger, it was along here that there was a long line of vehicles today

There's been a good bit of ground works done since I took these last week. Time & safety permitting, I'll post updates as soon as possible

red bull · 15-12-2014 10:08pm

Work to start on Tuam bypass 4th January 2015

JCX BXC · 15-12-2014 10:21pm

red bull wrote: »

Work to start on Tuam bypass 4th January 2015

Pity they are starting the tuam side.

con71 · 15-12-2014 10:31pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Pity they are starting the tuam side.

Let me guess, you don't live in or near Tuam

glineli · 15-12-2014 10:32pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Pity they are starting the tuam side.

I had heard they were going to start at 3 different locations so maybe they will make a start at the Gort end also

red bull · 15-12-2014 10:36pm

Seems work has already started near Athenry

JCX BXC · 15-12-2014 10:36pm

Hopefully. I though the point of the M18 was to connect limerick and Galway, I don't see the point in delaying that road any further

f2 · 15-12-2014 11:18pm

work is starting in 3 differant sections of motorway Roadbgidge doing the Tuam end, other sections belong to the other 2 firms forming Direct Route, was talking to a guy who seen a planning notice dated 5/12/14 looking for planning for the permanent storage of peat and subsoil 50,000 tonnes!, will it take 3 months to get plamning permissin, if it does will it be next March before any big dig starts at Tuam

flazio · 16-12-2014 10:33am

red bull wrote: »

Seems work has already started near Athenry

If you're talking about near the graveyard, that's a different project.
They are realigning the junction to remove the crossroads.

busyatwork · 16-12-2014 11:43am

Its great to see some progress on the construction of this moterway ,id say it will be well into march before the large earthworks takes place with weather and planning and all that work having to be taking into consideration before you will see any shape taking place

antoobrien · 16-12-2014 11:48am

busyatwork wrote: »

Its great to see some progress on the construction of this moterway ,id say it will be well into march before the large earthworks takes place with weather and planning and all that work having to be taking into consideration before you will see any shape taking place

Yeah, the works taking place now will be creating the site offices and compounds for machinery etc.

annfield1978 · 16-12-2014 11:03pm

Its most likely March before the construction works start in earnest

antoobrien · 17-12-2014 2:05pm

Survey work ongoing at the southern end of the tuam bypass.

Leonard Hofstadter · 18-12-2014 1:26am

Great to see that something's finally happening at last! At times it seemed as though it was never going to happen. Galway to Cork on a Friday evening is an absolute nightmare until you get to Cork. Many's the time I've done less than 10 mph between Oranmore and Gort. Even when you wouldn't expect the roads to be terribly busy you'd get stuck behind some jackass doing maybe 30-40 mph and it's quite hard to get by because there's always such a good flow of traffic on this road (and the overtaking opportunities are so limited).

Although it's not a proper solution for the village, bypassing Claregalway will make some difference there also, certainly for anyone doing say Sligo/Tuam-Oranmore/Gort they will get to avoid the place now. On the rare occasions I do venture up to Sligo, I certainly won't miss being stuck in that village either!

JCX BXC · 18-12-2014 10:07pm

If you ever get caught in a traffic jam on the Galway side of Clarinbridge god help ya! Took me 2 hours one bad day to get from Clarinbridge to Eyre Square. Coming out that night it took 20 minutes.

busyatwork · 21-12-2014 11:59am

This is one of the longest from signing the contract to starting construction projects i have ever seen ,work is definitely starting and it will be next year before progress is made on the construction but i for one am glad it is going ahead and it will be know time before the road will be opened and make journeys alot easyer

gally74 · 27-12-2014 6:19pm

A site office and yard has been set up on the monivea road, seems to be a sisk yard,

Finally

annfield1978 · 27-12-2014 11:23pm

Site staff for the designers are being lined up for about March so thats when you will see a serious push

JCX BXC · 27-12-2014 11:46pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

Site staff for the designers are being lined up for about March so thats when you will see a serious push

March? 10months after the contract was signed!

glineli · 28-12-2014 1:00am

Carnacalla wrote: »

March? 10months after the contract was signed!

I have heard of an engineer returning from Australia in February to start work in March on the project, so that lines up with the above

M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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