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Season 4 Episode 1 "Two Swords" : HAVE read the books

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    #182
    lynski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    I know this is a book readers thread but in case anyone has not finished the books i'm spoilering
    Love seeing Brianne this season as I was surprised to be so upset when she and Pod got hung. Just the most harmless characters and so unnecessary. It was a relief to see them again.


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    #183
    Dave_The_Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    I really need to re-read the books, because I don't remember Sandor Clegane dying at all ... given from what most of you have been saying... he has. Weird.


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    #184
    Shazbot
    Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭Shazbot


    Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »
    I really need to re-read the books, because I don't remember Sandor Clegane dying at all ... given from what most of you have been saying... he has. Weird.

    Well we don't know he's dead. All we know is that he was left to die by Arya after the fight in the inn and she refused him a quick death. When Brienne is on the Quiet Isle, the Elder Brother there tells Brienne that the Hound is dead and he buried him. People think that this just means The Hound aspect of his personality is dead and that he is Sandor now. It's speculated that the new gravedigger is Sandor and he's found peace since he can't kill his brother.


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    #185
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Daith wrote: »
    Yeah "Purple" Wedding is being thrown around so I've had friends connecting Red Wedding to be Robb's death to Purple being Joffreys.

    But red = Dexter style blood bath.
    Purple = ???
    Purple Wedding could mean anything. I don't know how people could relate PW to Joff gettin what's comin.

    Plus loads of show fans expect bad people to live long and prosper while the goodies continue to get slaughtered.

    One thing's for certain, episode 2 will shock a lot of people....


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    #186
    kksaints
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭kksaints


    GerB40 wrote: »
    But red = Dexter style blood bath.
    Purple = ???
    Purple Wedding could mean anything. I don't know how people could relate PW to Joff gettin what's comin.

    Plus loads of show fans expect bad people to live long and prosper while the goodies continue to get slaughtered.

    One thing's for certain, episode 2 will shock a lot of people....

    Purple would be generally regarded as the colour of royalty so it would be easy enough to see why people would think it would affect Joffery in some way.


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    #187
    omicron
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭omicron


    kksaints wrote: »
    Purple would be generally regarded as the colour of royalty so it would be easy enough to see why people would think it would affect Joffery in some way.

    Well obviously it affects him, it's his wedding, doesn't really signify what happens though?!


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    #188
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    GerB40 wrote: »
    Well unless there's some drastic deviations from the books Danys story will be dragged out too much so they won't be wrong by complaining..

    They'll probably put a 15 minute scene of her getting it on with one of her maids - that should keep everybody happy for awhile.


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    #189
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    They'll probably put a 15 minute scene of her getting it on with one of her maids - that should keep everybody happy for awhile.
    If they did that with her story people would go mental but I for one wouldn't mind one bit :-). I love me some Daenerys....


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    #190
    Washington Irving
    Registered Users Posts: 7,066 ✭✭✭Washington Irving


    GerB40 wrote: »
    If they did that with her story people would go mental but I for one wouldn't mind one bit :-). I love me some Daenerys....

    Why? It is staying true to the books after all. Just a shame they killed off Doreah.


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    #191
    Barna77
    Registered Users Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭Barna77


    Well, Daenerys' storyline is quite frustrating for book readers, I suppose non readers will go crazy about her staying in Mereen for ages sitting on her backside learning the art of ruling.

    If the producers make some changes to speed things up in order to please viewers, and there would be uproar on the readers side.

    I hope GRR Martin has something good for her after all that.

    And I see lots of hate for the new Daario.




    PS: the housemate is about to watch the RW, around 20 minutes to meltdown :D


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    #192
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Barna77 wrote: »
    Well, Daenerys' storyline is quite frustrating for book readers, I suppose non readers will go crazy about her staying in Mereen for ages sitting on her backside learning the art of ruling.

    A sitcom episode about the mishaps that occur while Barriston tries to find her a cushion to sit on :D


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    #193
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Barna77 wrote: »
    Well, Daenerys' storyline is quite frustrating for book readers, I suppose non readers will go crazy about her staying in Mereen for ages sitting on her backside learning the art of ruling.

    If the producers make some changes to speed things up in order to please viewers, and there would be uproar on the readers side.

    I hope GRR Martin has something good for her after all that.

    And I see lots of hate for the new Daario.




    PS: the housemate is about to watch the RW, around 20 minutes to meltdown :D

    Record the RW reaction, some of them were gas...


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    #194
    Barna77
    Registered Users Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭Barna77


    GerB40 wrote: »
    Record the RW reaction, some of them were gas...

    So the butchering begins, he's like wtf! ....

    ... And flash player crashes....

    Ffs


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    #195
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,842 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    The flash player knows what's up. :pac:


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    #196
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Liam O wrote: »
    Ellaria being shunted for a conversation with Tyrion completely goes against his book character too where if I remember correctly he made a point of saying that she was to hear everything he did.

    More surprisingly, they talk about rhaegar and Ellia, how he "left her for another woman". As clear a sign from GRRM that voluntary eloping, rather than kidnap of Lyanna is the way they're going. Not a surprise to most, but I thought the books were sufficiently subtle that it was always uncertain.


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    #197
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    More surprisingly, they talk about rhaegar and Ellia, how he "left her for another woman". As clear a sign from GRRM that voluntary eloping, rather than kidnap of Lyanna is the way they're going. Not a surprise to most, but I thought the books were sufficiently subtle that it was always uncertain.

    Was it not just that the "public" gossip had to maintain her innocence as a high born maid in order to protect her honour so it had to be pretended that she had been kidnapped, but that those in the know (Ned Stark for example) always knew she had loved Rhaegar?


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    #198
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    username123 wrote: »
    Was it not just that the "public" gossip had to maintain her innocence as a high born maid in order to protect her honour so it had to be pretended that she had been kidnapped, but that those in the know (Ned Stark for example) always knew she had loved Rhaegar?

    Yeah I think you're right. The only person who talks shít about Rhaegar in the books is Robert and seeing as he's a king surrounded mostly by yes men nobody was gonna openly disagree with him.. Nobody else even mentions kidnapping so it seems R+L=J is basically confirmed in the first book.


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    #199
    Kunkka
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    If that was the case in the books why did Ned's father & brother march to Kingslanding to demand her back which lead to their gruesome death? If they knew she went willingly they wouldn't have gone about it that way?


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    #200
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Kunkka wrote: »
    If that was the case in the books why did Ned's father & brother march to Kingslanding to demand her back which lead to their gruesome death? If they knew she went willingly they wouldn't have gone about it that way?

    Because Rhaegar was married and she was bethrothed. Women are property in this story, they don't get to make decisions like that.

    Maybe if your father was a petty lord you could marry for love but when he's a Lord Paramount, marriages are political.


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    #201
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Kunkka wrote: »
    If that was the case in the books why did Ned's father & brother march to Kingslanding to demand her back which lead to their gruesome death? If they knew she went willingly they wouldn't have gone about it that way?

    Maybe they went to KL to demand her to come home.. If she did run away with Rhaegar it would have been fairly shameful to the Starks so they would have tried to hush it up.


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    #202
    lynski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    Kunkka wrote: »
    If that was the case in the books why did Ned's father & brother march to Kingslanding to demand her back which lead to their gruesome death? If they knew she went willingly they wouldn't have gone about it that way?

    I always read it that she went not entirely willingly but stayed willingly, perhaps she just ran off to get away from the arranged marriage, and robert convinced himself that he loved her over time and then the rest of the myth. Kidnapping her makes no sense at all.
    She was young, Sensa's age, younger then Ned/Robert anyway, and Rhaegar and Ellia were probably not the love match the Martells want to believe either, just like Margorie 'loves' Jeoffery or Sensa convinced herself she did before he turned on her.
    Robert was a handsome warrior, but a known philanderer even as a young man with at least one bastard before the wedding was to happen, a beautiful targaryen prince turns her head and away she went, like Sensa, half a fool to the romantic tales of knights rescuing maidens from horrible fates.
    High-born bastards happen and are acknowledged, again Robert has one Stannis is raising, so maybe the father and brother went to prevent that.
    Over time the stories take on a life of their own, particularly as they legitimise a crown. Ned never had any truck with the Robert 'love' of his sister, and he never speaks against Rhaegar.
    I am in the R+L=J camp though.


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    #203
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,150 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    lynski wrote: »
    Robert was a handsome warrior, but a known philanderer even as a young man with at least one bastard before the wedding was to happen, a beautiful targaren prince turns her head and away she went, like Sensa, half a fool to the romantic tales of knights rescuing maidens from horrible fates.
    Everything we've heard about Rhaegar would suggest he was something of the virtuous, noble Knight too... Once you get past the bigamy aspect (which has plenty of precedence in the Targaryen family), he was pretty much love's young dream of a knight from everything we've heard about him to-date.


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    #204
    Liam O
    Registered Users Posts: 19,074 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    lynski wrote: »
    I always read it that she went not entirely willingly but stayed willingly, perhaps she just ran off to get away from the arranged marriage, and robert convinced himself that he loved her over time and then the rest of the myth. Kidnapping her makes no sense at all.
    She was young, Sensa's age, younger then Ned/Robert anyway, and Rhaegar and Ellia were probably not the love match the Martells want to believe either, just like Margorie 'loves' Jeoffery or Sensa convinced herself she did before he turned on her.
    Robert was a handsome warrior, but a known philanderer even as a young man with at least one bastard before the wedding was to happen, a beautiful targaren prince turns her head and away she went, like Sensa, half a fool to the romantic tales of knights rescuing maidens from horrible fates.
    High-born bastards happen and are acknowledged, again Robert has one Stannis is raising, so maybe the father and brother went to prevent that.
    Over time the stories take on a life of their own, particularly as they legitimise a crown. Ned never had any truck with the Robert 'love' of his sister, and he never speaks against Rhaegar.
    I am in the R+L=J camp though.

    Is it auto correct making you misspell loads of characters names? Hard to take what you are saying seriously in a book readers thread doing that tbh...


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    #205
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Everything we've heard about Rhaegar would suggest he was something of the virtuous, noble Knight too... Once you get past the bigamy aspect (which has plenty of precedence in the Targaryen family), he was pretty much love's young dream of a knight from everything we've heard about him to-date.

    And not only that but his marriage to Elia was arranged too so perhaps he was just a victim of duty as well.


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    #206
    lynski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    Liam O wrote: »
    Is it auto correct making you misspell loads of characters names? Hard to take what you are saying seriously in a book readers thread doing that tbh...

    ah sorry, Sansa and Elia then. HTH


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    #207
    poundapunnet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭poundapunnet


    Sophie Turner is amazing this season so far. I've given up on the TV show as being faithful to ASOIAF but she is really doing a lot of work that the reader had to do in the books to relate to a character.

    Not to take away from the characters of Tyrion, Arya, Jaime and the Hound but they were always good roles, the actors have brought a lot too make them extra good but they had a good foundation. Sansa was a difficult character from the books, even in her POV chapters, but I feel like you really get her better from the show. She's the anti-Kit Harington. Have to see how things go once she leaves KL but I love her right now


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