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Boating chit chat thread.

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    #632
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Lol yeah. Some eejit jumped off a cliff yesterday into Balscadden Bay and had to be airlifted away. Stupidity aplenty in this country.

    If the state really wants to prevent drowning there should be mandatory minimum swimming standards in primary schools and require all secondary school kids and parents of primary school kids to take a basic water safety (drowning recognition & limited assistance) course. So many people think drowning is noisy. It's not. It's anything but.


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    #633
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 28,829 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    miss no stars wrote: »
    Lol yeah. Some eejit jumped off a cliff yesterday into Balscadden Bay and had to be airlifted away. Stupidity aplenty in this country.

    If the state really wants to prevent drowning there should be mandatory minimum swimming standards in primary schools and require all secondary school kids and parents of primary school kids to take a basic water safety (drowning recognition & limited assistance) course. So many people think drowning is noisy. It's not. It's anything but.

    Personally I think swimming skills is the least of it. Ignorance of weather/water/tides - and how rapidly and lethally they can change - is far more dangerous. Knowing how to swim leads to a false sense of security a lot of the time - "sure I'll be grand swimming out, I can always swim back, I'm a good swimmer". Not against a tide or a choppy swell you wont!


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    #634
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    Personally I think swimming skills is the least of it. Ignorance of weather/water/tides - and how rapidly and lethally they can change - is far more dangerous. Knowing how to swim leads to a false sense of security a lot of the time - "sure I'll be grand swimming out, I can always swim back, I'm a good swimmer". Not against a tide or a choppy swell you wont!

    Yeah, but even some of the kids I grew up with (beside the sea ffs) didn't learn how to swim. Then as teenagers and adults they hop happily into the water. Teach the kids to swim when they're little and will be supervised. Also survival floating. Then teach them more involved water safety when they can absorb the information properly. And yeah, tides and weather has to come into it... Just like rips at the beach and how to spot them and what it means if you can't see any! :eek: But at least being able to swim and float competently by the time kids hit their teens would help. It may lead to a false sense of security, but if there's a proper learn-to-swim and water safety process in place, you can also teach them about their own limitations. I just think the lack of structured education about water safety in this country is a disgrace. We're an island dotted with lakes and criss-crossed with rivers ffs, teach water safety!


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    #635
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 28,829 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    miss no stars wrote: »
    Yeah, but even some of the kids I grew up with (beside the sea ffs) didn't learn how to swim. Then as teenagers and adults they hop happily into the water. Teach the kids to swim when they're little and will be supervised. Also survival floating. Then teach them more involved water safety when they can absorb the information properly. And yeah, tides and weather has to come into it... Just like rips at the beach and how to spot them and what it means if you can't see any! :eek: But at least being able to swim and float competently by the time kids hit their teens would help. It may lead to a false sense of security, but if there's a proper learn-to-swim and water safety process in place, you can also teach them about their own limitations. I just think the lack of structured education about water safety in this country is a disgrace. We're an island dotted with lakes and criss-crossed with rivers ffs, teach water safety!

    We can't seem to manage to teach a lot of kids to read or write - I can't see water safety being high up the list I'm afraid.

    But I agree with you 100% FWIW.


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    #636
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Between Cork week, and me starting a new job, Thursday will be my first day out in DL for a month.

    Weirdly I am looking forward to sailing in an area I know somewhat, with marks I recognise.

    now if I get delayed in work.................................


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    #637
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Losing by one second on elapsed time is not fun.


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    #638
    Eoghan S
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭Eoghan S


    Can I just ask, where do all of you learn about engines?
    I've been quite interested in ribs lately, and want to learn more about how they work, and how I can fix them myself should something fail.
    I understand they can be quite tricky, but if something small fails, I wouldn't be the sort of person to simply pay some geezer to overcharge me on some simple fix.
    Are there sites, or books, or do I actually have to disassemble an engine to learn :P ?


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    #639
    fergal.b
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    Hi Eoghan we don't have much here in Ireland unless you get a job in a boat yard/repair shop or volunteer for the RNLI, most of the outboard nowadays are computer controlled and each company will only release the software to their own mechanics you can still get away with doing your own servicing like oil change,impeller change and so on or go back to the old two stroke's like the evinrude in my link below. This is how I learned about engines just stripping them down and putting them back together a bit cleaner:D




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    #640
    Conchir
    Registered Users Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Conchir


    The ISA have introduced an engine maintenance and care course. I haven't done it and I don't know anyone who has, so I can't tell you if it's any good, but it might be worth a look at least.


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    #641
    Eoghan S
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭Eoghan S


    fergal.b wrote: »
    Hi Eoghan we don't have much here in Ireland unless you get a job in a boat yard/repair shop or volunteer for the RNLI, most of the outboard nowadays are computer controlled and each company will only release the software to their own mechanics you can still get away with doing your own servicing like oil change,impeller change and so on or go back to the old two stroke's like the evinrude in my link below. This is how I learned about engines just stripping them down and putting them back together a bit cleaner:D




    .

    That's a pity, I thought it seemed odd when I looked it up on Google and nothing but manuals showed up.
    I'll see if I can get myself some small, cheap engine off adverts that I can use a bit...
    Thanks for the help :)
    Conchir wrote: »
    The ISA have introduced an engine maintenance and care course. I haven't done it and I don't know anyone who has, so I can't tell you if it's any good, but it might be worth a look at least.

    Sounds a bit dodgy to me to be honest, while I've done plenty of ISA courses, I reckon this will most likely be common sense (ish) stuff, such as cleaning the salt water out of an engine, but I'll give it a look nonetheless.
    Thanks!


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    #642
    fergal.b
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    If you want to know the very basics the seagull engines are a good place to start they are cheep and easy to get parts for, here is one I just finished http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=90589511 every engine works the same way you just have to get the spark to spark at the right time to ignite the right amount of fuel and air mix and then find a way of cooling it down :)




    .


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    #643
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,040 ✭✭✭✭neris


    I hate outboards but am stuck with having to use one to get in and out of the marina. Heading off this afternoon to pick up a brand new one coz the piece of crap I have has packed up for the 3rd time in less then a year. I have no understanding of simple mechanics and find between the parts and the operation of an outboard confusing as hell


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    #644
    cricalix
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭cricalix


    ++ on finding an old seagull. I actually sold a ton of spare parts to JW of SoS a few years ago when my grandfather died. Grandpa ran a chandlery in Saltash for years, and then ran one mail-order from the shed in his garden. Taught me to rebuild seagulls when I was much, much younger; built one from three, and then went up-river with it purring (as much as a seagull can purr) away. They're very simple devices, and they'll set the groundwork for more modern engines (though the modern ones are all computer controlled these days).

    I think I saw a Halberg-Rassy with a Seagull on the rail the other day...


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    #645
    cricalix
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭cricalix


    Other random thought about Seagulls - if you accidentally drop one in the sea, get it back out, empty the fuel, and drop the whole thing in a 50 gallon drum of fresh water. Cycle the water once or twice. Dry the engine out, grease what needs greasing and then start it again :) (Well, vaguely in that order; it's one of the things Grandpa showed me once, and about 20 years ago.) Dare you to try that with a modern 4-stroke :D


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    #646
    fergal.b
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    During WW2 it's said that loads of 102 seagull engines and inflatables were buried in the dunes of the D-Day beaches incase they were ever needed for another Dunkirk type evacuation, some of these have been found and are now used for more peaceful means :)



    .


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    #647
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    fergal.b wrote: »
    During WW2 it's said that loads of 102 seagull engines and inflatables were buried in the dunes of the D-Day beaches incase they were ever needed for another Dunkirk type evacuation, some of these have been found and are now used for more peaceful means :).

    Ha! Sorry to rain on your parade Fergal, but that’s an urban myth.

    The real story is that several of the smaller craft were powered by Seagulls despite their known tendency to splutter and then flood when hit by any bit of damp. These craft had to be lowered ever so gently in case the engines were splashed, a cause of much mirth and ribaldry to the watching RN personnel. The engines had to be protected as much as possible from spray, the helm often leaning out over the transom to shelter them, head in the fumes of the 10:1 mix thereby coming ashore dizzy, sick and reeking. All of us know that the D-Day ‘Landings’ window was weather dependent – that was in case the Seagulls got wet in the rain!

    If the engines stalled (which they usually did) it took forever to restart them when hot, and when they flooded (which they usually did, a bitch to re-start one when hot) it meant pulling the plug, drying it with a match, blowing on the gap and threading it back in. All of this running repair had to happen while under intense machinegun fire from enfiladed positions, with the added bonus of dispersed-pattern mortar fire.

    So, the truth of what actually happened when the craft (eventually) got ashore :- the designated skipper/helm took a service-issue Webley 45, aimed it at the ‘guts’ of the engine, pulled the trigger several times and then buried the evidential remains in a dune because he never, ever, wanted to see the d@mn thing again. Later, he reported it (deadpan) to his CO as ‘Destroyed in action, Sir, hit by a round or two I believe.)

    That is why ‘SNAFU’ has a totally different meaning in the American forces, (Situation Normal, All F…d Up) whereas in Crown Forces it means ‘Seagull Not Available, Flooded, Unrepairable.’:p:D:D


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    #648
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Ha! Sorry to rain on your parade Fergal, but that’s an urban myth.

    The real story is that several of the smaller craft were powered by Seagulls despite their known tendency to splutter and then flood when hit by any bit of damp. These craft had to be lowered ever so gently in case the engines were splashed, a cause of much mirth and ribaldry to the watching RN personnel. The engines had to be protected as much as possible from spray, the helm often leaning out over the transom to shelter them, head in the fumes of the 10:1 mix thereby coming ashore dizzy, sick and reeking. All of us know that the D-Day ‘Landings’ window was weather dependent – that was in case the Seagulls got wet in the rain!

    If the engines stalled (which they usually did) it took forever to restart them when hot, and when they flooded (which they usually did, a bitch to re-start one when hot) it meant pulling the plug, drying it with a match, blowing on the gap and threading it back in. All of this running repair had to happen while under intense machinegun fire from enfiladed positions, with the added bonus of dispersed-pattern mortar fire.

    So, the truth of what actually happened when the craft (eventually) got ashore :- the designated skipper/helm took a service-issue Webley 45, aimed it at the ‘guts’ of the engine, pulled the trigger several times and then buried the evidential remains in a dune because he never, ever, wanted to see the d@mn thing again. Later, he reported it (deadpan) to his CO as ‘Destroyed in action, Sir, hit by a round or two I believe.)

    That is why ‘SNAFU’ has a totally different meaning in the American forces, (Situation Normal, All F…d Up) whereas in Crown Forces it means ‘Seagull Not Available, Flooded, Unrepairable.’:p:D:D

    Seems bizarre that an engine intended for use in water would suffer so badly from water...


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    #649
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Any recommendations as to where to buy gear - buoyancy aids, booties, gloves and the like?

    I looked at The Great Outdoors, but everyone says they are quite expensive. There's also Marine Parts in Santry that I stumbled across.


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    #650
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    I find Sutton Dinghy supplies quite good, service is good too from them.

    Online is probably cheapest however :)


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    #651
    fergal.b
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    You could also try Union Chandlery in Malahide Marina while your on your rounds of North Co Dublin :)





    .


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    #652
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Western Marine at Bullock Harbour (also online) and Viking Marine in Dun Laoghaire.


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    #653
    Vexorg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,897 ✭✭✭Vexorg


    MarineParts in Swords (between the Airport and Airside Retail Park) and CH Marine in Malahide are the least expensive in my experience, Viking Marine are expensive, but they are in a very expensive location also. Best bet is to shop around there can be surprisingly large price differences on some gear.

    If you know your size, amazon can be good value so worth a price comparison if you can wait for delivery.

    CH Marine have my next set of gloves for €40, most uk chandlers have them priced at £35 plus delivery


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    #654
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Up to ninety dinghies have capsized on Strangford Lough during the GP14 world championships

    They are a right bugger to get back into if you go over


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    #655
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    I reckon if you are good enough to be in the Worlds you are proficient in righting one, no matter how difficult. Probably an idiot news editor who knows nothing about sailing, like the one on Newstalk a couple of years ago when there were a few Oppies capsized in DL (and Moncrieff had to ask what is a regatta!:rolleyes: ) That said, it's been blowing 20kts with regular gusts of 30-40 kts here in the SW, so Pedro is shorebound.:(


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    #656
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Yeahm heard someone on newstalk from a hospital interviewed and ****eing on about "there were 97 casualties in the water". Really? Sounds more like 97 people in the water, including about 8 who needed to go to hospital - some perhaps as a precautionary measure. The poor club organizing.

    I love how there's talk of a huge emergency response to treat people for hypothermia. I'm gonna call wtf on that. I'm sure some people did come in mildly hypothermic, but how many more than normal? Probably a few, but the way this is being reported makes it seem like the most horrific incident. Jesus.

    Big wind - sailor decides. Hope the club don't cop flack for this.


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    #657
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    miss no stars wrote: »
    Yeahm heard someone on newstalk from a hospital interviewed and ****eing on about "there were 97 casualties in the water". Really? Sounds more like 97 people in the water, including about 8 who needed to go to hospital - some perhaps as a precautionary measure. The poor club organizing.

    I love how there's talk of a huge emergency response to treat people for hypothermia. I'm gonna call wtf on that. I'm sure some people did come in mildly hypothermic, but how many more than normal? Probably a few, but the way this is being reported makes it seem like the most horrific incident. Jesus.

    Big wind - sailor decides. Hope the club don't cop flack for this.

    Sky have changed it now to 20 people in the water, and 8-10 in hospital.

    Apparently they had cancelled the second race and the fleet was heading in when they got hit by an almighty squall


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    #658
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,040 ✭✭✭✭neris


    i was at a kids dinghy regatta few weekends ago. at the briefing the ood gave the kids 2 piece of safety advice- 1) If the fog rolls in go the neaerst mark and raft up 2) if theres lightning - capsize go turtle and sit on your boat. Wonder if thered been a lightning strike and 30 purposely capsized dinghies would the media make a drama out of what was a safety issue carried out correctly. Sometimes during squalls it easier to sit on an upturned hull then trying to right it and hope that you can get back in without capsizing then sail off in control


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    #659
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 28,829 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Why do people get their knickers in such a twist about an emergency plan being activated when something like this happens?

    That's precisely why the plan is there, and what people/the emergency services have trained for, and I can tell you that if 20 (or even 97) sailors went in the water and some wound up seriously hypothermic or dead there'd be hell to pay.

    In all the confusion of what happened (apparently an unmerciful squall and a rogue wave), is it not better than you set off the nuclear option just in case of a worst-case scenario - and then half an hour later when you realise that actually it's not as bad as first thought, you reel them back in and deal with what you actually have.

    I thought the incident at the George a few years ago, and today, were great examples of a plan kicking in and working exactly as it should - ok, the media blew it a bit out of proportion - but I don't get the "a shure it was grand, what was all the fuss about" when that's being said only with the (huge) benefit of hindsight.


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    #660
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    Why do people get their knickers in such a twist about an emergency plan being activated when something like this happens?

    That's precisely why the plan is there, and what people/the emergency services have trained for, and I can tell you that if 20 (or even 97) sailors went in the water and some wound up seriously hypothermic or dead there'd be hell to pay.

    In all the confusion of what happened (apparently an unmerciful squall and a rogue wave), is it not better than you set off the nuclear option just in case of a worst-case scenario - and then half an hour later when you realise that actually it's not as bad as first thought, you reel them back in and deal with what you actually have.

    I thought the incident at the George a few years ago, and today, were great examples of a plan kicking in and working exactly as it should - ok, the media blew it a bit out of proportion - but I don't get the "a shure it was grand, what was all the fuss about" when that's being said only with the (huge) benefit of hindsight.

    I'm not sure that you have got the issue HeidiH, it's more the issue of uninformed unintelligent comment (read BS) from the media. Capsizes happen. That is what a safety action plan and a fleet of ribs, etc. is for. The Oppie thing I mentioned earlier had the most stupid running commentaries from the radio stations and a horde of silly 'mummies' driving down for their darlings. Most kids (junior juniors) found it totally cringeworthy (but were pleased when they were carted off en masse to Teddies and the only words of sense I heard later were from the LO on the RNLI station (who is a member of the George).


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    #661
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Yeah HH, to clarify what I was saying, I think it's rubbish the way it's being reported. 80 boats capsize - holy ****e, yeah, react. However, for someone in the hospital to be publisized saying "97 casualties in the water" is absurd. There aren't 97 casualties. There are 97 people in the water. There's never a comment of "these boats can capsize and be righted safely", or "all sailors are wearing wetsuits and bouyancy aids and are well used to capsizing and recovery" or anything.

    It's a reaction of "OMFG JFC OMG OMG OMG 97!!!!!!!!!!! THERE MUST BE A FATALITY!!" that comes out of the media that's horse****.

    Nobody did anything wrong here, yet there's a real "HOW COULD THIS HAVE HAPPENED? SO SCANDALOUS!!!" response. They're dinghies. Catch them with a bad gust or wave and they capsize. It happens. Catch a fleet and a fleet will capsize. Club and responders did nothing wrong, yet it makes them look like ****e. And after all, whether you sail comes down to skipper. Not the club, even though I'm sure there'll be people harping on about "why would they go ahead?".


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