Fair play to Pearse Doherty

bobbysands81 · 17-04-2014 4:06pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

They never promised to welch on our debts, so not welching was certainly not breaking any promises. The only related promise is one to renegotiate the deal with the troika, and they did indeed do that, even if the only outcome (so far) was the Anglo promissory note deal.

The unsecured debt was never our debt. Their gamble failed yet we pay them back.

Paddy Power doesn't return my stake if I put money on a horse that doesn't win.

Zubeneschamali · 17-04-2014 4:09pm

tayto lover wrote: »

About 7 years ago my bank manager tried to get me to take out a second mortgage and buy another investment property.

About 7 years go, SF ran on this manifesto, which would have required a massive increase in Government spending, and made our situation after the crash significantly worse.

Zubeneschamali · 17-04-2014 4:12pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The unsecured debt was never our debt.

I'm talking here about Banjostring's claim that FG broke all their promises. They never promised to default, it's a separate issue.

Godge · 17-04-2014 5:10pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Under which of those headlines does paying back the failed gamblers (the unsecured bond holders) at the expense of every man woman and child of this State fall?

More of this rubbish again.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2014/04/just-what-was-guaranteed-and-who-was.html

Have a read of this.

Once FF and the Silly Greens guaranteed the depositors, there was no way back. We brought this crisis on ourselves and it is just idiotic that so many are still in denial.

tayto lover · 17-04-2014 5:48pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

About 7 years go, SF ran on this manifesto, which would have required a massive increase in Government spending, and made our situation after the crash significantly worse.

I have nothing to do with SF.
I started this thread because nobody except Pearse Doherty called out the ESRI for their predictions. Predictions that failed numerous times before. Its good to see someone, anyone, challenging these people regardless of them being right or wrong.

Mardy Bum · 17-04-2014 6:17pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I have nothing to do with SF.
I started this thread because nobody except Pearse Doherty called out the ESRI for their predictions. Predictions that failed numerous times before. Its good to see someone, anyone, challenging these people regardless of them being right or wrong.

It would be good to see him come up with viable economic policies rather than trying to score cheap populist points against an independent research body which at least attempts to conduct economic research (in a country full of financial institutions which up until recently lied through their teeth and gave erroneous data) and doesn't pull it out of its arse like SF.

tayto lover · 17-04-2014 6:19pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It would be good to see him come up with viable economic policies rather than trying to score cheap populist points against an independent research body which at least attempts to conduct economic research (in a country full of financial institutions which up until recently lied through their teeth and gave erroneous data) and doesn't pull it out of its arse like SF.

That is the operative word alright :pac:

alastair · 17-04-2014 6:35pm

tayto lover wrote: »

That is the operative word alright :pac:

Why don't you admit that you've no idea on the actual success rate for the ERSI's record on economic predictions? Because Doherty's assertion that they've never been right is simply incorrect. As McWilliams says - they all get it wrong some of the time.

tayto lover · 17-04-2014 7:44pm

alastair wrote: »

Why don't you admit that you've no idea on the actual success rate for the ERSI's record on economic predictions? Because Doherty's assertion that they've never been right is simply incorrect. As McWilliams says - they all get it wrong some of the time.

“he who knows not and knows he knows not is a wise man,
he who knows not and knows not he knows not - he is a fool”

alastair · 17-04-2014 8:05pm

tayto lover wrote: »

“he who knows not and knows he knows not is a wise man,
he who knows not and knows not he knows not - he is a fool”

"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor

I'll take that as an indication you have no idea what you're dealing with in relation to their record then.

tayto lover · 17-04-2014 8:22pm

They have been wrong on many things and have been called on it before.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/esris-bleak-and-erratic-forecasts-may-be-way-out-26327868.html

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/can-those-esri-boffins-really-predict-the-future-26650642.html

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/31503-esris-pathetic-record-forecasting-migration.html

sarumite · 17-04-2014 9:45pm

I remembering reading a glib comment from one economic commentator that economists have successfully predicted 6 of the last 3 recessions. That said, predicting the weather should in theory be easier than predicting economic output and yet meteorologists get it wrong too. All an economist can do is to base their reasoning on sound economic fundamentals. Expecting them to predict the future seems a little extreme.

bobbysands81 · 18-04-2014 9:16am

Godge wrote: »

More of this rubbish again.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2014/04/just-what-was-guaranteed-and-who-was.html

Have a read of this.

Once FF and the Silly Greens guaranteed the depositors, there was no way back. We brought this crisis on ourselves and it is just idiotic that so many are still in denial.

That article says that we gave €9bn to unsecured bondholders, they should not have gotten a cent.

alastair · 18-04-2014 11:14am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

That article says that we gave €9bn to unsecured bondholders, they should not have gotten a cent.

Perhaps not, but the reality is that the Troika - who were the only means of keeping the country funded, insisted that we do so. It's not like there was much in the way of alternative options open to us.

Zubeneschamali · 18-04-2014 11:23am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

That article says that we gave €9bn to unsecured bondholders, they should not have gotten a cent.

Then people should have voted for a party which promised to cut them off.

bobbysands81 · 18-04-2014 5:37pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Then people should have voted for a party which promised to cut them off.

Or our politicians should have put Irish citizens first.

Zubeneschamali · 18-04-2014 8:06pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Or our politicians should have put Irish citizens first.

You should have voted for politicians who would do what you want them to do.

Perhaps you did, but most of us did not. So it goes in a democracy.

Godge · 18-04-2014 8:25pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

That article says that we gave €9bn to unsecured bondholders, they should not have gotten a cent.

Read it again, and read more widely. We had to give the money to the bondholders before we could give it to the depositers. So unless you wanted ordinary people to lose their savings.....

tayto lover · 18-04-2014 9:11pm

Godge wrote: »

Read it again, and read more widely. We had to give the money to the bondholders before we could give it to the depositers. So unless you wanted ordinary people to lose their savings.....

We should have only paid a percentage though.
Why should the Irish people take a 100% hit when they didn't gamble yet the gamblers took no hit at all.
We took no risk and lost yet they took a risk and lost and then recouped their loses from us.

alastair · 18-04-2014 9:40pm

tayto lover wrote: »

We should have only paid a percentage though.
Why should the Irish people take a 100% hit when they didn't gamble yet the gamblers took no hit at all.
We took no risk and lost yet they took a risk and lost and then recouped their loses from us.

Again: The Troika - who were the only means of keeping the country funded, insisted that we do so. It's not like there was much in the way of alternative options open to us.

tayto lover · 18-04-2014 9:43pm

alastair wrote: »

Again: The Troika - who were the only means of keeping the country funded, insisted that we do so. It's not like there was much in the way of alternative options open to us.

Have you a link to that exact scenario please?

alastair · 18-04-2014 10:12pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Have you a link to that exact scenario please?

Your pal McWilliams is clear on it, as is Brian Lucey, asides from clear statements to that effect by the Govt.
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2012/05/29/its-not-a-fiscal-union-its-a-fiscal-straightjacket
http://brianmlucey.wordpress.com/2011/11/05/why-the-ecb-are-being-unreasonable-on-bonds/
http://www.thejournal.ie/troika-aib-bond-quinn-620483-Oct2012/

Banjo String · 19-04-2014 6:57am

alastair wrote: »

Perhaps not, but the reality is that the Troika - who were the only means of keeping the country funded, insisted that we do so. It's not like there was much in the way of alternative options open to us.

alastair wrote: »

Again: The Troika - who were the only means of keeping the country funded, insisted that we do so. It's not like there was much in the way of alternative options open to us.

So FG were only doing as the troika instructed them?

Or to be more precise, they aren't responsible for any improvement in the economy.

FG and Lab are very blinkered when it comes to financial decisions and introducing new taxes and charges.

Negative, like property tax and water charges "FF signed the country up to these charges, don't forget that" or, "the troika insists we introduce this, or won't accept that"

Yet when it comes to claiming glory, they are quick to claim full credit and responsibility as "the Govt parties who are improving things"

If they were re only following the troikas orders, then any party in Govt, FF/SF/PDs or INDs would be making the same claims.

JRant · 19-04-2014 11:00am

Doherty may not be everyones cup of tea but casting aspertions on him because he didn't finish out a degree course is childish.

I'm not a Sinn Feiner but I like the cut of his cloth a lot more than the current minister of finance. Noonan should have been chased out office for good after the Brigid McCole scandal.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/noonans-image-tarnished-by-the-hepatitis-c-scandal-26095408.html

alastair · 19-04-2014 11:44am

Banjo String wrote: »

If they were re only following the troikas orders, then any party in Govt, FF/SF/PDs or INDs would be making the same claims.

Correct.

Son Of A Vidic · 21-04-2014 9:01pm

Banjo String wrote: »

Michael Noonan is a former teacher. (primary school)

It seems having economic training isn't a necessity in a financial role of Govt.

Indeed and wasn't it great to have a suitably qualified Barrister positioned to bail out the banks. Quite hilarious to read the sniping at O'Doherty. Especially in a little country that has quite a penchant for appointment unqualified people into key roles.

Permabear · 23-04-2014 8:27am

This post has been deleted.

Zubeneschamali · 23-04-2014 8:58am

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It's hard to tell if he succeeded, but he certainly did his best to undermine international confidence in Ireland's credit-worthiness.

handlemaster · 23-04-2014 9:06am

The problem with the shinners they love the sound bites and the attacks ( without the guns) but can't seem to back it up with solid facts and figures their policies have more holes than Swiss cheese !

Banjo String · 23-04-2014 9:55am

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Care to clarify what this means?

I was unaware he was a "traveller"

Fair play to Pearse Doherty

Comments