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Fair play to Pearse Doherty

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    #92
    Radiosonde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Radiosonde


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Interestingly, Nobel's will didn't establish the Economics prize; it was established and endowed by Sweden's Riksbanken.


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    #93
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The attacks on economics were in response to you attacking Doherty for merely having an engineering degree. That's going to raise hackles on a geeky place like boards. In any case do you fully accept the beliefs of Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman?. No you don't. Based on ideological principles. But there are no idealogical steady state theorists - there were but the evidence proved them wrong.


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    #94
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    The attacks on economics were in response to you attacking Doherty for merely having an engineering degree. That's going to raise hackles on a geeky place like boards. In any case do you fully accept the beliefs of Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman?. No you don't. Based on ideological principles. But there are no idealogical steady state theorists - there were but the evidence proved them wrong.

    Getting solid economic data is a phenomenally hard to thing to do especially, macro data. It is this difficulty which then makes many of models unreliable.


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    #95
    sarumite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭sarumite


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Alfred Nobel never designated a prize for economics (or maths). The economics prize was added by the Swedish central bank in the late 60's and although it is commonly referred to as the 'Nobel prize in Econmics', its official name is (at this point I am heading to wiki) ...Nobel Memorial Prize.


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    #96
    sarumite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭sarumite


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    The attacks on economics were in response to you attacking Doherty for merely having an engineering degree. That's going to raise hackles on a geeky place like boards. In any case do you fully accept the beliefs of Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman?. No you don't. Based on ideological principles. But there are no idealogical steady state theorists - there were but the evidence proved them wrong.

    There are plenty of disagreements in physics. The comparison of economics to the physical sciences is not really just. In the physical sciences, you are usually dealing with closed systems. In biology for example, people use cloned mice to limit variability. In chemistry they use pure chemicals to limit variability. In physics they can use specific instruments designed to limit variability. In economics you don't have that luxery as you are trying to work within a completely open system. Furthermore when you consider that the political and social factors will impact any economic model (both rational and irrational factors), it makes it an infinitely more difficult system to work with than in most scientific disciplines.


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    #97
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,853 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    So spending cuts and/or wage cuts. It all boils down to the same thing. Citizens will either have their services cut or take home pay cut.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #98
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #99
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #100
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    And what makes him judge and jury on it? He has absolutely no proven experience or knowledge in the area.
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    He dropped out of his degree level studies at Letterkenny Institute of Technology, which he pursued after completing that certificate level course. Couldn't hack a course in LIT and yet the people of Donegal deem him suitable to represent them in office; mind-boggling stuff. A hard neck goes a long way in this country. Up there with Bertie and his claims that he studied at University College Dublin and the London School of Economics.


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    #101
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #102
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    It takes some gall to slag off the ESRI when you couldn't finish a basic (probably level 7) three year degree in DIT. :rolleyes:


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    #103
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #104
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    As I understand it, Doherty is only pointing out the obvious, that the ESRI have been wrong so many times before. Why does someone need to be economically qualified to point out earlier flaws? They've gotten it wrong in the past, this is fact, on record in black and white. He also stated very clearly that:
    he hopes the ESRI forecasts materialise in terms of growth and unemployment.

    However, if they do materialise, it will be the first time ever because, he said, the ESRI has got it so wrong for many years.


    I think David Moyes isn't the best manager in the English Premiership, and I have zero experience or qualifications in soccer management. I'm forming my opinion on his current record and dismal performance.

    You seem to be hung up on an individual's academic qualifications, we all know however these are (or lack of) in Irish politics are irrelevant.

    Do you need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows?


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    #105
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Do you need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows?

    If you want to know which way it's going to blow tomorrow, I'll back Evelyn Cusack against Pearse Doherty every time.


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    #106
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    If you want to know which way it's going to blow tomorrow, I'll back Evelyn Cusack against Pearse Doherty every time.

    Pfft. Weather forecasters have been wrong in the past, therefore meteorology isn't a science and all meteorologists are charlatans. Do try to keep up.


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    #107
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Pfft. Weather forecasters have been wrong in the past,

    Yep. They've been correct in the past too though.


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    #108
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Banjo String wrote: »
    As I understand it, Doherty is only pointing out the obvious, that the ESRI have been wrong so many times before. Why does someone need to be economically qualified to point out earlier flaws? They've gotten it wrong in the past, this is fact, on record in black and white. He also stated very clearly that:


    I think David Moyes isn't the best manager in the English Premiership, and I have zero experience or qualifications in soccer management. I'm forming my opinion on his current record and dismal performance.

    You seem to be hung up on an individual's academic qualifications, we all know however these are (or lack of) in Irish politics are irrelevant.

    Do you need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows?


    On this one Doherty is completely wrong. The figures from the last few months have shown that austerity actually worked, the economy has turned around.

    Godge wrote: »
    So he is saying that the ESRI said that austerity would lead to growth and the government imposed austerity and now that we are seeing growth resuming in the economy following the imposition of austerity that the ESRI are wrong.

    I lost him in the logic.

    Very strange analysis to say the least.


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    #109
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #110
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Until they are in power (Sweet divine jesus between us and all harm), when they would have to cross their fingers and hope that a run of growth would let them go on a Charlie McCreevy style vote-buying spending spree.


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    #111
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    100% agree, and it says a lot about Doherty and SF that they are more interested in their own political ambitions than an economic recovery for the people of this country.


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    #112
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,581 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Godge wrote: »
    100% agree, and it says a lot about Doherty and SF that they are more interested in their own political ambitions than an economic recovery for the people of this country.

    They are of course alone in that regard.


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    #113
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,675 ✭✭✭flutered


    Godge wrote: »
    100% agree, and it says a lot about Doherty and SF that they are more interested in their own political ambitions than an economic recovery for the people of this country.

    since a lot of this thread is devoted to who has not a degree in whatever, has not rabbite gilmore and costelloe achived masters degrees in political ambitions, dotherty has quite a journey ahead of him to achive what these guys have.


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    #114
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String




    Lastly, the context of Doherty's comments make it clear that he resents the implications of an optimistic economic outlook. Why? His party's ratings have trended sharply upward during the economic crisis, thanks largely to populist stances against bankers, bondholders, the IMF, spending cuts, and new taxes. Doherty knows that public discontent will disappear if people are no longer so concerned about their jobs, incomes, and futures. He's aware that in the absence of a continued gloomy economic outlook, Sinn Fein will slip back to being a minor player. So, Doherty and his fellow travellers need the economic crisis like fish need water. They want low growth, high unemployment, and public discontent so that they can further their own political ends. And so they don't want any pesky economists at the ESRI bursting the bubble.

    Who else does this remind me of?

    Answer yourself this. Would FG be in Govt if the economic crash had not have happened?
    What did FG say (or labour) they would do if they were elected (and reneged on most of their promises)?

    In FGs case they're already slipping back to becoming minor players, the latest opinion polls put them on par with FF.


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    #115
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Good loser wrote: »
    John Fitzgerald said the forecasts mean the budgets can be easier from now on - Isn't that Pearse's line i.e. less austerity?

    Usually the guy talks a lot but makes very little sense.

    And who is John Fitzgerald married to? Oh yes, a former Labour Minister.


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    #116
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Banjo String wrote: »
    What did FG say (or labour) they would do if they were elected

    For Fine Gael, the top-line summary was:

    1. Help protect and create jobs
    2. Keep taxes low while fixing the deficit;
    3. Deliver smaller, better government;
    4. Create a completely new, fairer, more efficient health system; and
    5. Overhaul the way our political system works to stamp out cronyism and low standards

    1 and 2 are going well. 3 was never going to happen (and Labour were pushing hard the other way), 4 is very hard, 5 is a never-ending struggle.


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    #117
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    For Fine Gael, the top-line summary was:

    1. Help protect and create jobs
    2. Keep taxes low while fixing the deficit;
    3. Deliver smaller, better government;
    4. Create a completely new, fairer, more efficient health system; and
    5. Overhaul the way our political system works to stamp out cronyism and low standards

    1 and 2 are going well. 3 was never going to happen (and Labour were pushing hard the other way), 4 is very hard, 5 is a never-ending struggle.

    Under which of those headlines does paying back the failed gamblers (the unsecured bond holders) at the expense of every man woman and child of this State fall?


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    #118
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    If you want to know which way it's going to blow tomorrow, I'll back Evelyn Cusack against Pearse Doherty every time.

    About 7 years ago my bank manager tried to get me to take out a second mortgage and buy another investment property. I refused because myself and the missus discussed it and felt that things might not be great if we couldn't get someone to rent it from us full-time and we felt that there were too many empty houses already.

    The Bank manager probably had more qualifications than us but who was right?


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    #119
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    tayto lover wrote: »
    About 7 years ago my bank manager tried to get me to take out a second mortgage and buy another investment property. I refused because myself and the missus discussed it and felt that things might not be great if we couldn't get someone to rent it from us full-time and we felt that there were too many empty houses already.

    The Bank manager probably had more qualifications than us but who was right?

    A bank manager tried to sell you a financial product? Tell us more about this craziness.


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    #120
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Phoebas wrote: »
    A bank manager tried to sell you a financial product? Tell us more about this craziness.

    BUT it proves that you don't have to have a degree to spot bulls*** :D
    Again fair play to Doherty for challenging them.


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    #121
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Under which of those headlines does paying back the failed gamblers (the unsecured bond holders) at the expense of every man woman and child of this State fall?

    They never promised to welch on our debts, so not welching was certainly not breaking any promises. The only related promise is one to renegotiate the deal with the troika, and they did indeed do that, even if the only outcome (so far) was the Anglo promissory note deal.


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