Fingal / North Dublin Transport Study

lucernarian · 17-04-2015 12:58am

lxflyer wrote: »

As I posted above - probably more like 35 minutes to Heuston.

I did see your post, just wanted to address the other, more extreme estimated time. I thought I remembered seeing a 13 minute running time from the docklands to Heuston station in the Dart Underground proposals. But that aside, is the 24 minutes claim one previously published somewhere? I thought the typical journey time would be over 25 minutes from Airport to Docklands/Connolly.

LXFlyer · 17-04-2015 2:03am

lucernarian wrote: »

I did see your post, just wanted to address the other, more extreme estimated time. I thought I remembered seeing a 13 minute running time from the docklands to Heuston station in the Dart Underground proposals. But that aside, is the 24 minutes claim one previously published somewhere? I thought the typical journey time would be over 25 minutes from Airport to Docklands/Connolly.

It won't be any longer than Malahide to Connolly (that has a station stop to elongate the time) - and that is 24 minutes.

lucernarian · 17-04-2015 2:34am

lxflyer wrote: »

It won't be any longer than Malahide to Connolly (that has a station stop to elongate the time) - and that is 24 minutes.

Yeah Malahide is a fair comparison. Thanks for pointing that out! I should've realised that earlier. I'm thinking the airport is a bit further but there must be less than a km in it anyway.

Sam Russell · 17-04-2015 9:30am

As lxflyer has pointed out, Darts will stop at all stations.

I would have envisioned the Clongriffin spur being an express service only - stopping at Connolly in the first instance, After/if DU gets built, stopping at Docklands, Pearse, SSG, Christchurch, Heuston, and onwards. A 30 minute frequency, or 20 min if that is feasible should be enough for peak service times.

Remember, the Airport runs from before 5 am till after midnight, while the Dart service and stations do not. The service does not need to be branded as Dart, nor does it have to be exclusively Dart.

cgcsb · 17-04-2015 2:31pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

If phase two was built (tunnel from Broadstone to SSG) then its really not a bad alternative.

Agreed but for the cost of tunneling between SSG and Broadstone, shure why not just effing build metro north as planned?

Ren2k7 · 17-04-2015 2:44pm

lucernarian wrote: »

Yep I know that too, but I still don't get you. HR8 as proposed (or what little they said about it) won't conflict with Cross City. But I'm not sure how they will fit in the curve and then the tunnel portals into the limited space in the area, or how much distance is needed for the tunnel entrance to have an acceptable gradient for trains to use it. There's not much distance between Glasnevin Junction and the Finglas Road/Glasnevin Cemetery.

The level of disruption to the area, along with the cost leads me to conclude the govt will likely opt for LR3 over HR8.

OssianSmyth · 17-04-2015 2:54pm

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/04/16/latest-dublin-transport-plan-pulled-directly-out-of-governments-arse/

Ren2k7 · 17-04-2015 3:21pm

OssianSmyth wrote: »

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/04/16/latest-dublin-transport-plan-pulled-directly-out-of-governments-arse/

WWN once again nails it.

lucernarian · 18-04-2015 5:23pm

Ren2k7 wrote: »

The level of disruption to the area, along with the cost leads me to conclude the govt will likely opt for LR3 over HR8.

Exactly, I don't know why you're telling me there's been no decision made yet. I was pointing out there were flaws with the Aecom study, and that whatever decision is made, it's being done with some fairly incomplete information. Whether the HR8 option is a serious contender or not, there's nothing good to supply a report that doesn't clarify or investigate the proposal and engineering challenges at e.g. Glasnevin Junction in greater detail.

Carawaystick · 19-04-2015 9:56pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would have envisioned the Clongriffin spur being an express service only - stopping at Connolly in the first instance, After/if DU gets built, stopping at Docklands, Pearse, SSG, Christchurch, Heuston, and onwards. A 30 minute frequency, or 20 min if that is feasible should be enough for peak service times.

I'd imagine there'd have to be a stop at HJ too for connections on northern line and howth branch

Sam Russell · 19-04-2015 10:10pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'd imagine there'd have to be a stop at HJ too for connections on northern line and howth branch

The stops would be as required dictated by the traffic on the line and by the requirements of the passengers. I just expressed what I thought would be best as frequency and travel time would be critical to gaining passangers.

I'm sure IR will ignore me anyway.

expectationlost · 17-06-2015 12:05am

Local Reps Differ Over Aer Lingus Loot
http://www.northcountyleader.ie/2015/06/16/local-reps-differ-over-aer-lingus-loot/

Alan Farrell TD (FG) told the County Leader that he thought that putting the money towards a light rail system was a good option. He said, “The mooted connectivity fund is expressly for the purposes of capital investment in transport related infrastructure on and off the airport campus, for the benefit of all.”

stretching the definition of it a bit

Fund to invest in international connectivity out of Ireland in the pipeline
http://www.redfm.ie/news/news/cork/fund-to-invest-in-international-connectivity-out-of-ireland-in-the-pipeline/

audio clip Coveney says for airports ports and international broadband connectivty

The Government has agreed that the proceeds should be used to establish a new connectivity fund as part of the Ireland strategic investment fund. The Minister for Finance will seek the approval of the Oireachtas in due course for the payment of the proceeds of any sale of the State's shareholding into this fund in accordance with section 46(2) of the National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Act 2014 should the sale proceed.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2015-05-27a.328&s=%22connectivity+fund%22#g340

something for eveyone in the audience

trellheim · 17-06-2015 11:49am

its traditional for any transport minister to build in their backyard. I therefore foresee a cablecar from Dublin Airport to Broombridge LUAS.

veryangryman · 19-06-2015 8:32am

Was just thinking, if the spur was also branded as DART, the tourists would assume a Nacronym of Dublin Airport Rapid Transit.

Wrong in so many ways

Schadenfreudia · 21-06-2015 1:06am

Read today that every 1% increase in interest rates will cost the country €2 billion, per annum, in debt repayments.

So, a 3% rise in rates (very probable) will cost €6 billion every year for the next 30 years - which we will pay without question.

Yet Metro North and DU combined, if started next year, would cost €1 billion a year for the next five years in total, a time period when our bankster repayments will total maybe €30 billion.

So we opt to "solve" Dublin's public transport by going for a BRT or Clongriffen "solution" because it will only cost, per annum about 0.01% (yes, zero point one percent) per annum of the likely debt repayments increase we'll swallow without question.

Something is wrong with our approach to public transport infrastructure.

annfield1978 · 22-06-2015 9:26am

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coalition-to-free-up-land-for-additional-housing-1.2257970

murphaph · 22-06-2015 3:02pm

Roads roads roads. Build DU and vast swathes of land from Clonburris to Adamstown become prime commuter territory.

Grandeeod · 22-06-2015 7:08pm

murphaph wrote: »

Roads roads roads. Build DU and vast swathes of land from Clonburris to Adamstown become prime commuter territory.

Yes you are right. But I'm positive that you know it won't be built anytime soon if ever.

murphaph · 22-06-2015 9:14pm

Yup. Proving what a nonsensical bunch of people we are. Empty tracts of hundreds of acres of development land (very unremarkable land in fairness) with large population centres to the north, east and south and with a 4 track railway going through the middle of it and a 20 minute train ride to St. Stephen's Green all and we can't join the dots.

Sad state of affairs :-(

hardy_buck · 23-06-2015 4:39pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coalition-to-free-up-land-for-additional-housing-1.2257970

I am right in thinking that this means the bullet for DU so?

Pete_Cavan · 23-06-2015 10:07pm

If they are serious about opening up development land than surely the focus must be on west Dublin. Assuming DU wont happen, the alternative in terms of major projects on the cards at the minute is some form of light rail link between the city centre and the airport, be it Luas or metro. Either of those would travel along the Ballymun Road corridor which has can deliver a significant number of residential units, it is not on the scale the city requires. A much higher number of units can be developed in west Dublin which is already served by two rail lines. In the absence of DU, the other options could be KPR2 or electrification of the Maynooth line plus more level crossing removal on that line. That would allow for an increase in services at stations already provided to serve future development and they will be more useful with the opening of the PPT and the turnback facility at Grand Canal Dock station. They would also form enabling type projects for DU which should be delivered later.

Idbatterim · 05-07-2015 10:15am

With luas cross city and potentially this joke extension out to the airport, does anyone else worry about the constant blocking of O'Connell street amongst others and the Luas system effectively being shut down at the will of those protesting in support of Greece, abolition of water charges :rolleyes: etc?

LXFlyer · 05-07-2015 10:54am

Idbatterim wrote: »

With luas cross city and potentially this joke extension out to the airport, does anyone else worry about the constant blocking of O'Connell street amongst others and the Luas system effectively being shut down at the will of those protesting in support of Greece, abolition of water charges :rolleyes: etc?

That's why for example trams will still be able to turn back at St Stephen's Green and Dominick.

Pete_Cavan · 05-07-2015 10:59am

Idbatterim wrote: »

With luas cross city and potentially this joke extension out to the airport, does anyone else worry about the constant blocking of O'Connell street amongst others and the Luas system effectively being shut down at the will of those protesting in support of Greece, abolition of water charges :rolleyes: etc?

Regardless of protests, I dont think the O'Connell Street alignment will work. I would say accidents will be the more comment source of disruption here. There is a huge amount of traffic there, even removing private cars there will still be a large number of taxis and buses, both DB and tourist buses, not to mention the BRT which could be squeezed in there soon too. That will all have to share one lane when there is a Luas around. I would not be surprised if within two years they are looking to realign so both tracks are on Marlborough Street. Between Marlborough Street and Hawkins Street, the Luas could have 700m of dedicated road space through the heart of the city centre, that can only be good for services.

Also, the idea of having two stops on O'Connell Street is just ridiculous, thankfully the development which the second stop was to serve (why a stop 400m away doesnt serve it I dont know) looks dead.

Schadenfreudia · 05-07-2015 5:20pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

With luas cross city and potentially this joke extension out to the airport, does anyone else worry about the constant blocking of O'Connell street amongst others and the Luas system effectively being shut down at the will of those protesting in support of Greece, abolition of water charges :rolleyes: etc?

Not the least concerned by O'Connel Street being blocked by worthy protests such as you mentioned!

So long as the Southside Luas lines work all is well....:D

Ren2k7 · 26-07-2015 12:50am

Swords will now have to wait a few more weeks for a formal announcement from the Department of Transport on the future of the town's public transport services but the Fingal Independent understands that a Luas for Swords is emerging as the favoured option of the Government.

The announcement was widely expected before the Dáil rises this month but the Fingal Independent has learned this window will be missed while experts continue to work on how the new light rail system will integrate with existing services in the city centre.

An extension of the cross-city Luas from Cabra to Dublin Airport and Swords and a stripped down Metro North are now the only options being seriously considered by Minister for Transport, Paschal Donohoe with the Swiftway BRT system and the controversial proposal for a Dart spur from Clongriffin to Swords thought not to be sufficient for the long-term needs of the town.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/swords-luas-favoured-31390248.html

If true then at least the insane BRT proposals look to be dead. Though a Luas extension to Swords really isn't much better. Thanks FG.

Pete_Cavan · 26-07-2015 9:30am

Ren2k7 wrote: »

If true then at least the insane BRT proposals look to be dead. Though a Luas extension to Swords really isn't much better.

It could be argued that the Luas extension is more insane than the BRT proposal given the people mover at the airport and the frequency constraints of running on street in the city centre and sharing this alignment with other services. The Luas option looks a lot more expensive than the BRT but with relatively few advantages. At least if the BRT was built, we might have a chance of getting a decent metro service at some point this century, with the Luas extension we will be stuck with that and if it is a failure DU could become impossible to sell to the general public.

Schadenfreudia · 26-07-2015 10:56am

At 10.30 on Friday night people were left standing on the platform (southbound) at Charlemont because the Luas was so over-crowded.

The display put the next one arriving at 15 minutes, probably already full leaving Stephens Green.

This is the line that is now going to serve Swords and Dublin Airport?

Pete_Cavan · 26-07-2015 11:15am

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

At 10.30 on Friday night people were left standing on the platform (southbound) at Charlemont because the Luas was so over-crowded.

The display put the next one arriving at 15 minutes, probably already full leaving Stephens Green.

This is the line that is now going to serve Swords and Dublin Airport?

I dont think over crowding on the existing green line is going to be a problem for the extension. Most people will be getting off between Harcourt Street and Parnell Street so there will be space for those boarding to travel further north.

According to the PRA, it will take ~20 minutes to get from SSG to Cabra, add to that a mainly on road journey including 8 stops before you get to the "airport stop" to transfer to a people mover or a couple more km to reach Swords. I cant see people going to/from the airport or Swords switching from the existing bus services. People along the Ballymun Road will probably be the main users of the Luas extension so should be fine for capacity. Thats how bad this proposal is.

Ren2k7 · 26-07-2015 11:28am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It could be argued that the Luas extension is more insane than the BRT proposal given the people mover at the airport and the frequency constraints of running on street in the city centre and sharing this alignment with other services. The Luas option looks a lot more expensive than the BRT but with relatively few advantages. At least if the BRT was built, we might have a chance of getting a decent metro service at some point this century, with the Luas extension we will be stuck with that and if it is a failure DU could become impossible to sell to the general public.

Knowing this country and the type of government we love to elect we'd probably just get an upgrade to Luas from BRT instead of a full metro. BRT and Luas are fairly similar so the state would argue it's easier to simply swap out the buses with trams instead.

Still though, both are crap compared to Metro North, even the truncated version put forward by Aecom is a million times better than the Luas.

Fingal / North Dublin Transport Study

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