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The Best 10k workouts - by Greg Mcmillan

13468911

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Finnt wrote: »
    Just wondering itz which session did you find the hardest?

    Don't know if I can quite remember but I think the first one and the last one were always tough. I usually had to start with something leading into the 6x1 mile session. I've posted here that I do a 6x1k before the mile version.

    I like the idea of any workout where you start with the longer and end with the shorter. So the 2x2 mile + 2x1 mile - is that even one of the sessions??! - is mentally so much easier than the 3x2mile.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Finnt


    I know what you mean about some of the sessions being mentally easier, I found the 6X1mile pretty tough at mile 4 and 5.
    Did you do all the session on the flat?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭skeleton_boy


    Itziger wrote: »
    Any updates from people doing this? (I have a bit of time on my hands!)

    I completed the plan recently. Missed out on my target (36:59) by 28 sec. Met the targets in all the training sessions but it just wasn't there (or all that close) on the day. I had a 17:55 5K in the build up which suggests the 10K target may have been there on another day. I enjoyed the cycle and feel it brought me on a good bit going into marathon training.


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭LUPE


    Would anyone suggest an alternative for half marathon? 3x4, 6x2?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    I completed the plan recently. Missed out on my target (36:59) by 28 sec. Met the targets in all the training sessions but it just wasn't there (or all that close) on the day. I had a 17:55 5K in the build up which suggests the 10K target may have been there on another day. I enjoyed the cycle and feel it brought me on a good bit going into marathon training.

    Very similar to me then Skeleton. But I got a lot nearer it a week later with 37.07. I recommend this 2 (or maybe even 3) race strategy. It's a distance you can have another go at almost immediately with few or no ill effects.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Finnt wrote: »
    I know what you mean about some of the sessions being mentally easier, I found the 6X1mile pretty tough at mile 4 and 5.
    Did you do all the session on the flat?

    Yeah, FinnT, almost all on the flat.

    I always find the second last rep the toughest!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭skeleton_boy


    Itziger wrote: »
    Very similar to me then Skeleton. But I got a lot nearer it a week later with 37.07. I recommend this 2 (or maybe even 3) race strategy. It's a distance you can have another go at almost immediately with few or no ill effects.

    Next time I train specifically for the shorter stuff that'll be my plan. Didn't really have time for one this time round as I wanted to get straight into marathon training.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Finnt


    I've been following this plan I'm in the end of week 5, but I've to take a week off on advice from the physio I've picked up a calf strain.
    Should I just pick up the plan at the start of week 7 and run the goal race?
    Or take an easy week then restart the whole plan?
    I was hoping to hit sub 41min and I'm doing about 40 miles a week


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭SamforMayo


    Finnt wrote: »
    I've been following this plan I'm in the end of week 5, but I've to take a week off on advice from the physio I've picked up a calf strain.
    Should I just pick up the plan at the start of week 7 and run the goal race?
    Or take an easy week then restart the whole plan?
    I was hoping to hit sub 41min and I'm doing about 40 miles a week

    Hi Finnt , sorry to hear of your injury. I'm starting this next week but will try the 6x 1 km this week to easy myself in. Now I'm off to re read your log and see how much I can copy for a plan


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Finnt wrote: »
    I've been following this plan I'm in the end of week 5, but I've to take a week off on advice from the physio I've picked up a calf strain.
    Should I just pick up the plan at the start of week 7 and run the goal race?
    Or take an easy week then restart the whole plan?
    I was hoping to hit sub 41min and I'm doing about 40 miles a week

    Finnt, very hard for anyone of us to say. Take the week off as advised though. See where you are after that. Do a few easy runs and if the calf is ok do a medium/hard session. Unless you're completely happy with it I wouldn't really push the first quality workout.

    Good luck.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Finnt


    SamforMayo wrote: »
    Hi Finnt , sorry to hear of your injury. I'm starting this next week but will try the 6x 1 km this week to easy myself in. Now I'm off to re read your log and see how much I can copy for a plan

    The first thing I'd say is don't follow too much of my log!! The long run should be longer I've been working 6 days a week this last couple of months and it's made it hard to get a good long run in,
    I know I'm going against the grain here but, I don't see the point of doing 6x1k.
    I found the 6x1mile the toughest session. I think you'd only be making it harder mentally, no doubting 6x1k will be hard but going into 6x1mile knowing it's going to be tougher mighten't be great for your confidence. I could be totally wrong tho.
    Also as the first post says don't try beat the session,


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭SamforMayo


    Finnt wrote: »
    The first thing I'd say is don't follow too much of my log!! The long run should be longer I've been working 6 days a week this last couple of months and it's made it hard to get a good long run in,
    I know I'm going against the grain here but, I don't see the point of doing 6x1k.
    I found the 6x1mile the toughest session. I think you'd only be making it harder mentally, no doubting 6x1k will be hard but going into 6x1mile knowing it's going to be tougher mighten't be great for your confidence. I could be totally wrong tho.
    Also as the first post says don't try beat the session,

    Thanks Finnt, I did the 6x1 km this morning and I reckon I will have to delay the start of the plan til I get general mileage and fitness up:( Will fill in the details on my log.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Finnt


    corny wrote: »
    Bit like the question Finnt had. I'm gonna start in 2 or 3 weeks when (like the confidence!) i crack sub 20 for 5K. I was thinking of going straight into this program and aiming for sub 40 for 10K. Same pace and all. Do you think thats doable?

    Hi, how're you getting on? Did you start the plan?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Casey78


    Hi all.
    Hoping to start this training program soon.
    I'm hoping to get a PB of 47mins for the 10k from this.
    I understand the gist of the workouts but I'm looking for advice on what I should do the rest of the week.
    I was thinking a lsr,a couple of easy short runs and 1 tempo run plus the mcmillian workout each week.
    Does something like that sound ok or should I be doing something different?
    I'm a relativity new runner so any advice would be great.
    My current PB for 10k is 50'14.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭pointer28


    Is you read the full OP it will give you suggestion at the bottom of the post. Only do the 10k sessions every 2nd week as they're tough.

    Other than that you sound like you're on the right track or thereabouts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Thinking of having another lash off this. Two 10k races in mid March to aim at. Be nice to have one or two virtual buddies too.

    Anyone??


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Itziger wrote: »
    Thinking of having another lash off this. Two 10k races in mid March to aim at. Be nice to have one or two virtual buddies too.

    Anyone??

    Which races are you looking at?
    Doesn't suit me now but be something to look at after Rotterdam, they say there's no better time to get a 10k pb after all. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Which races are you looking at?
    Doesn't suit me now but be something to look at after Rotterdam, they say there's no better time to get a 10k pb after all. :)

    Well, you probably won't know them RQ. The Postlaf is the first, did it 4 or 5 times already. Fine race but with a little hill around km 7 . The other one's a flat course I set the pb (37.07) on two years ago in Diekirch. There's a week between 'em so the idea is to try to give as much as possible in the first rather than thinking, ah, sure I have another easier race next week to fall back on.

    I'm rethinking Spring marathon plans this year and may stay short, hence the interest in the plan.

    As for the 'no better time to get a 10k pb', yeah, I kinda go along with that but you have to listen to the body and get the timing right. If Rotterdam takes a lot out of you, rest up for a bit and a few weeks later go for that 10k!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭seanin4711


    anyone got a copy of the original?
    thanks
    j


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Well, I've started out on this programme again. Did a warm up 6x1k last week and yesterday, despite the snow I was able to do a 5x1 mile @ 10k pace. Only negative was that it should have been 6 instead of 5 but it was getting dark and I had to head back home through the woods.

    The reps went 5.47, 5.54, 5.46, 5.56 and 5.55 so happy enough. 3 min recs.

    Aim is to do at least one but hopefully 2 10k races in March and beat the 2014 time of 37.07.

    Weather permitting, I hope to be able to do the full plan this year. 12x400 then next week @5k pace. Haven't quite decided what the decent weekend run should be. Tempo, progression, Long with a couple of kms at 10k pace at the end?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,534 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Itziger wrote: »
    Well, I've started out on this programme again. Did a warm up 6x1k last week and yesterday, despite the snow I was able to do a 5x1 mile @ 10k pace. Only negative was that it should have been 6 instead of 5 but it was getting dark and I had to head back home through the woods.
    Are there bears in the woods?! Great going... Even without the bears...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Are there bears in the woods?! Great going... Even without the bears...

    Don't know, but the Pope might have been in there. (Obscure personal in-joke of mine)

    Are bears Catholic? Anyway, lucky I did it yesterday, snow coming down heavier now. Trot in same woods at best this evening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Forgot to update this, might as well. Be great if someone else was giving it a go so that we could compare training. Did the 12x400 last week on a lovely ice-free patch of my river run route. If truth be told the pace was a bit faster than current 5k pace - let's say that would be 3.30/km

    https://connect.garmin.com/activity/1020670472

    Times ranged from 78.7 to 83.7. Happy that last 6 were all about 80 seconds.

    This week calls for the 1x2mile and 4x1mile workout.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Just updating. Did the 1x2mile + 4x1mile session today.

    Went well enough, tough but ok.

    The 2 mile was 11.47 and the 4 singles went from 5.51 to 5.55, so all in the ballpark. Track is about 333mt on the inside lane and the 1500 metre line is marked so I paced back 100 (YES! I know, should've been 109) steps back from there for the singles.

    The 2 miler, I started from the 200 metre line and then did 9 laps on top. The Garmin was, as ever on the track, way out.

    Next week: 24x200 @ 5k pace.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    24x200 today. First time I've ever done this session. As the track is 333 metres and I couldn't be bothered starting and stopping the watch all the time, I kinda did it by feel. Jogged the remaining distance to start again. Only time I ever walked was after rep 12. Was thinking of taking a mini break but I was cold and wet so just kept going. Felt ok. I think the 200's were around 3.05 to 3.10 pace.

    Linky.>https://connect.garmin.com/activity/1038107535


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭muloc


    Plan to start this in a few weeks. Can currently only do 3 miles with rests at desired pace so hopefully will be ready in time to do 6 :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭averagejoe123


    Started this last weekend with the 6*1 miles off 2-3 minutes. Found it tough but got through it. Looking to take my pb from 39.39 to 38.20. My mileage will average 40-45 miles for the 8 weeks.

    Aside from the long runs which I will keep between 11-15 miles what other sessions have people found beneficial to supplement the key sessions?

    I will be doing the key sessions on Saturday with my long run on Sunday or Monday. Was considering doing a few tempo miles on Wednesday/Thursday. What would people think?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭MisterDrak


    Great to see this tread resurrected again...

    Im kind of doing this "backwards", i.e. for the last 2 weeks I have run a 4*1 @ 10K pace with 2min off, but without a goal race to speak of.

    I will be doing the 2*2 next Tuesday which should prove more challenging.

    Similar question to AverageJoe above, in relation to LSR distance and other sessions ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 275 ✭✭aoboa


    Given a 6d running week with MLR on Weds, LR on Sat and a rest day on Fri, what's the best day to target for these sessions - Tues or Thurs - or does it matter that much?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭ger664


    I would incorporate them into the MLR on Wed. 2 mile WU/CD + session would be pretty close to 10 miles


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    YaY! At last a few posting on this thread. I was back in the homeland for a few days and without internet, would've responded otherwise.

    I think that the 2nd 'Q' day could be either a Tempo run or a fast finish medium distance run or a race of sorts. Last weekend I did a 14k trail race, but I'd say a few park runs might do the trick as well.

    This week I got to train with the Eagle lads in Cork. First time ever. As I had an extra week in the plan - counting back from 8 has never been a strong point of mine - I said I'd do whatever they were doing. 'They' turned out to be one who was around my level of ability and doing something akin to a 10k session. It was 6x1mile at slightly slower than target pace but with only 1 min recovery. Tough old workout. We completed it in one piece and the miles were all a little under 6 minutes. Last one was 5.50 I believe. Glad to see the lad I did em with also does 4 laps!! as opposed to 4 + 9 metres. Only downside is a sore quad/thigh which I think hadn't fully recovered from the trail race. Next week I think I have the 2x2 miles +2x1mile. Getting into the meaty bit of the plan now.

    Good luck to the others trying this. Keep us posted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭muloc


    Started this last weekend with the 6*1 miles off 2-3 minutes. Found it tough but got through it. Looking to take my pb from 39.39 to 38.20. My mileage will average 40-45 miles for the 8 weeks.

    I'm about same level. PB 40 but Summer since I did one. Reckon could prob manage 39 if I did one now. Hoping to get 10k to 37.30 by May starting this in a couple of weeks.

    I notice your weekly mileage is way more than mine. I run 5 times/week, about 25 miles. What do people think? Is my weekly mileage way too low to achieve this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 275 ✭✭aoboa


    ger664 wrote: »
    I would incorporate them into the MLR on Wed. 2 mile WU/CD + session would be pretty close to 10 miles

    Makes sense.
    Am new to speedwork and have never raced a 10k but am targeting the K Club.
    Got my 5k pb down to 21:51 off a few weeks of 400m intervals so aiming for 44:59 :)
    Averaging 40-45m a week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    muloc wrote: »
    I'm about same level. PB 40 but Summer since I did one. Reckon could prob manage 39 if I did one now. Hoping to get 10k to 37.30 by May starting this in a couple of weeks.

    I notice your weekly mileage is way more than mine. I run 5 times/week, about 25 miles. What do people think? Is my weekly mileage way too low to achieve this?

    It is on the low side, yeah. Doesn't mean you can't do it though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Did this session today after an easy 10 k yesterday. 18k progression of sorts although hadn't really planned it.

    https://connect.garmin.com/activity/1050262309

    Definitely coming into some form. Felt strong today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭muloc


    am struggling a bit trying to do 4 x 1 miles @ 6:00 pace. First 3 are just about ok with 3 mins. rest between whereas I need 5 mins. rest before the 4th and can only manage about 6:20

    Any advice on how to improve this as I hope to start with the 6 x 1 miles @ 6:00 pace in a couple of weeks.

    Would an LSR at weekend help and at what pace?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭averagejoe123


    muloc wrote: »
    am struggling a bit trying to do 4 x 1 miles @ 6:00 pace. First 3 are just about ok with 3 mins. rest between whereas I need 5 mins. rest before the 4th and can only manage about 6:20

    Any advice on how to improve this as I hope to start with the 6 x 1 miles @ 6:00 pace in a couple of weeks.

    Would an LSR at weekend help and at what pace?

    Perhaps look at doing 2*1mile + 4*1km and building it up from there before you start the plan?

    I won't be incorporating too much speed into my long runs so they will all be run at a comfortable effort, for me this works out at about 10k pace + 2 minutes p/mile. I know some will be bringing some of the faster stuff into their long runs so perhaps they can help there.

    I have decided to target the K club 10k in April so I will have an extra week or two buffer to repeat a session if needed or do a 5k race. I did a parkrun last week in 18.45 (20 seconds off my pb) felt there was more there but I just couldn't access it. Hopefully this will come down in the coming months too.

    Looking forward to the 1*2 + 4*1 miles this weekend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭muloc


    Perhaps look at doing 2*1mile + 4*1km and building it up from there before you start the plan?

    I won't be incorporating too much speed into my long runs so they will all be run at a comfortable effort, for me this works out at about 10k pace + 2 minutes p/mile. I know some will be bringing some of the faster stuff into their long runs so perhaps they can help there.

    I have decided to target the K club 10k in April so I will have an extra week or two buffer to repeat a session if needed or do a 5k race. I did a parkrun last week in 18.45 (20 seconds off my pb) felt there was more there but I just couldn't access it. Hopefully this will come down in the coming months too.

    Looking forward to the 1*2 + 4*1 miles this weekend.

    what's your target for the 10k in April?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭averagejoe123


    muloc wrote: »
    what's your target for the 10k in April?

    PB of 39.39 dating back to June of last year & haven't run a 10k since.

    A- Sub 38
    B- Sub 38.30
    C- Sub 39

    I assume you are looking closer to 37 minutes?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Myles Splitz


    muloc wrote: »
    am struggling a bit trying to do 4 x 1 miles @ 6:00 pace. First 3 are just about ok with 3 mins. rest between whereas I need 5 mins. rest before the 4th and can only manage about 6:20

    Any advice on how to improve this as I hope to start with the 6 x 1 miles @ 6:00 pace in a couple of weeks.

    Would an LSR at weekend help and at what pace?

    My 2c

    I think you need to re-evaluate your target time. Train towards improvement rather than training towards a target time. Dropping your pace by 30 sec per mile in 10 weeks off a very low aerobic base is not realistic and will actually be counter productive to your improvement by training towards that time.

    If you want to improve significantly change the following parameters

    - Run for time rather than distance - instead of 6x1 mile run 6x5 min @ current 10k pace (approx 6.20) with the same recoveries as prescribed. Substitute 5 min for every 1m in the target sessions.

    - Add a long run at the weekends of roughly 7-12 miles (start at the former and build). Pace should be easy and focus on time on your feet

    - Off such a low mileage base I would do 1 session a week however if you did build your training you could look to add a second session of a tempo (once you go beyond 40mpw)

    You will find this sort of approach while not seeming as hard day to day actually yields bigger improvements than you would get by running too hard for too long with the sessions the way you are working on at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭averagejoe123


    muloc wrote: »
    I'm about same level. PB 40 but Summer since I did one. Reckon could prob manage 39 if I did one now. Hoping to get 10k to 37.30 by May starting this in a couple of weeks.

    I notice your weekly mileage is way more than mine. I run 5 times/week, about 25 miles. What do people think? Is my weekly mileage way too low to achieve this?

    Apologies, I just saw this now. Your target time would seem pretty aggressive based on your current PB and mileage in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Did the 2x2 and 2x1 miles today. Tough but ok. Just about hitting the target splits.

    11.47, 11.53, 5.51 and 5.53.

    Approx 5 mins between the 2 milers and 3 between the singles.

    Muloc, I'd agree with the others. Lower the sights a little. If as the programme goes on you get much stronger you might still achieve the original target but right now it sounds like you're not ready for it. I'd be looking for about 40 miles a week for that target time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭muloc


    Itziger wrote: »
    Did the 2x2 and 2x1 miles today. Tough but ok. Just about hitting the target splits.

    11.47, 11.53, 5.51 and 5.53.

    Approx 5 mins between the 2 milers and 3 between the singles.

    Muloc, I'd agree with the others. Lower the sights a little. If as the programme goes on you get much stronger you might still achieve the original target but right now it sounds like you're not ready for it. I'd be looking for about 40 miles a week for that target time.

    yep have had a rethink and will increase the mileage a bit and lower the target to 6:10 miles. See how I go with that for a few weeks.

    You seem to be flying along.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    That sounds sensible. Good luck with it.

    I wouldn't exactly say 'flying'!! If I want to lower the pb (37.07) I have to gun for sub 6 minutes. We'll see in a few weeks time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭muloc


    Itziger wrote: »
    That sounds sensible. Good luck with it.

    I wouldn't exactly say 'flying'!! If I want to lower the pb (37.07) I have to gun for sub 6 minutes. We'll see in a few weeks time.

    didn't realise yer pb was that good :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    muloc wrote: »
    didn't realise yer pb was that good :eek:

    You mean, for an old fella? :)

    Hoping to do the same two races I did two years ago, one week between them. First one is a bit tougher (course pb, 37.28) second one is flatter. Hopefully the second one is on a calm day cos you run along a river for a few k and I remember it being hard. Of course, when we turned the course went 20 yards 'inland' from the water and I couldn't feel a bit of benefit!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Any updates?? I'm laid low with a nasty chest cough. Will be at least 3 days with no running. Lucky I got the Wed session in.

    Then I suppose I'll need a few easy days. So a week lost almost. I should be still ok but it's a bit of a shame.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭averagejoe123


    How's the chest Itz?

    Did the 1*2 + 4*1 this weekend with an average of 6.15.

    12.21 (6.05, 6.16) 6.18, 6.20, 6.16, 6.15. Needed every second of the recovery where I walked a bit in between the last 2 miles.

    The wind was coming from all directions and I fought way too hard on the 1*2 mile starting off to try and stay on pace which made the rest of the session a lot tougher than I would of liked. Had nothing little left in the tank at the end of this session.

    A couple of excuses for this as it was done in the evening after a long day and I didn't have the right runners for it but a decent effort all the same.

    13 miles yesterday in wind and the rain which turned out to be my most enjoyable run of the year to date.

    52 miles for the week.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Decent week there aj123!

    The wind and rain will come in handy yet. What are you aiming for again? That 6.05 came back to haunt you, eh.


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