What a spineless nation...

jewett · 16-02-2012 8:15pm #1

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

phasers · 16-02-2012 8:15pm

somebody tell on you?

Seachmall · 16-02-2012 8:17pm

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

RyanAir are doing specials on flights to Australia if you're interested.

theteal · 16-02-2012 8:17pm

Yeah. . . .and Lisa needs braces!

kfallon · 16-02-2012 8:17pm

You are more than welcome to leave......

tayto lover · 16-02-2012 8:18pm

It is the duty of every citizen to report crime especially when we are all paying for it.

boobar · 16-02-2012 8:19pm

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

Are you not contradicting yourself? You say you don't condone social welfare fraud but then you accuse anyone who reports social welfare fraud of "ratting".

Are you saying you don't want people to commit social welfare fraud but if you see if happening, you expect everyone to turn a blind eye?

delta_bravo · 16-02-2012 8:19pm

If a person is robbing me as a taxpayer and robbing all other citizens I would report them and feel they should be punished. I don't see an issue with this.

Coriolanus · 16-02-2012 8:20pm

Fùck that noise. My taxes pay for Jacinta's weed.

TheZohanS · 16-02-2012 8:20pm

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

"ratting on"...FFS. I suppose if a mate of yours was involved in a hit and run you wouldn't report them either?

Gi joe! · 16-02-2012 8:21pm

Go do something about it then, if you feel that this is a problem. Honestly what are you hoping to accomplish with this post?

robman60 · 16-02-2012 8:21pm

So you're okay with people fraudelently claiming YOUR tax money every week? Would you not report it if someone was stealing €188 from you each week? It's effectively stealing my money and your money, I know I'd report it.

xzanti · 16-02-2012 8:21pm

jewett wrote: »

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities.

Total violation of the Carnie Code..

Mr. Manager · 16-02-2012 8:22pm

Do what I did, move country and enjoy life.

mikom · 16-02-2012 8:23pm

tayto lover wrote: »

It is the duty of every citizen to report crime especially when we are all paying for it.

Would you report your neighbor for smoking a spliff on his back porch?

Ellis Dee · 16-02-2012 8:23pm

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

Even when I read tripe like the above, and as fully aware as I am that many people in Ireland leave a lot to be desired in many respects, I would never deny that I am proud to be Irish.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The King of Moo · 16-02-2012 8:23pm

Surely it's possible to dislike welfare fraud enough to report it, but also to hate high-level political and business corruption.

It's not like we have to deal with the big things first, then the little things. We can do both.

Having said that, I do think there's a disproportionate anger towards welfare fraud in this country, given the cost of it, and the fact that it's always happened.

But we don't have to choose one thing to condemn.

jewett · 16-02-2012 8:24pm

boobar wrote: »

Are you not contradicting yourself? You say you don't condone social welfare fraud but then you accuse anyone who reports social welfare fraud of "ratting".

What I am saying is why do people take action when their is anonymity?

Where has the affirmative action been when it comes to corrupt bankers,
senior civil servants and politicians? None. People have just sat on their
h@les doing sweet fa.

Kimbot · 16-02-2012 8:24pm

mikom wrote: »

Would you report your neighbor for smoking a spliff on his back porch?

Well now some might say can you prove its a spliff??

Coriolanus · 16-02-2012 8:25pm

mikom wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

It is the duty of every citizen to report crime especially when we are all paying for it.

Would you report your neighbor for smoking a spliff on his back porch?

"...crime that disadvantages others..."

tayto lover · 16-02-2012 8:25pm

mikom wrote: »

Would you report your neighbor for smoking a spliff on his back porch?

Jesus Mikom, is that you ? Could you keep it quiet tonight please and go easy on your girlfriend as the walls are very thin

Phoenix Park · 16-02-2012 8:26pm

mikom wrote: »

Would you report your neighbor for smoking a spliff on his back porch?

I'd report him for not inviting me over.

My name is URL · 16-02-2012 8:28pm

tayto lover wrote: »

It is the duty of every citizen to report crime especially when we are all paying for it.

Yeah, but only those that we don't indulge in ourselves.

mikom · 16-02-2012 8:28pm

Christ this place is so full of sense now.
God be with the days of Flutterin bantum.....

scotty_irish · 16-02-2012 8:29pm

mikom wrote: »

Would you report your neighbor for smoking a spliff on his back porch?

victimless "crime".

mikom · 16-02-2012 8:31pm

scotty_irish wrote: »

victimless "crime".

Howya, I'm Mikom.
You new here?

My name is URL · 16-02-2012 8:34pm

scotty_irish wrote: »

victimless "crime".

Aye, the illicit drugs trade has never had any victims whatsoever.

Feisar · 16-02-2012 8:36pm

TheZohan wrote: »

"ratting on"...FFS. I suppose if a mate of yours was involved in a hit and run you wouldn't report them either?

Define what a friend is, if it's a casual acquaintance/drinking buddy at the weekends then yea report them. A real friend who's been there through thick and thin, no not a chance.

bbam · 16-02-2012 8:38pm

Was listening to the chat on Mat Cooper...
I don't have a link or anything but it seems...

SW staff makes errors to the tune of 2.5 times the amount of fraud that occurs... And that fraud is only about 0.1% of the total budget of SW..

krudler · 16-02-2012 8:38pm

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

but in tracksuits its ok, gotcha.

giles lynchwood · 16-02-2012 8:40pm

The government are trying to divide and conquer the people of Ireland and what better way to do that then suspicion.
Remember,It's only a crime if you get caught.

scotty_irish · 16-02-2012 8:40pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Aye, the illicit drugs trade has never had any victims whatsoever.

grow your own? And weed doesn't have anywhere near the impact that the likes of coke/heroine have. For the record I'm not a smoker.

scotty_irish · 16-02-2012 8:42pm

mikom wrote: »

Howya, I'm Mikom.
You new here?

Howya I'm bob. Returning from a rather long ban.

mikom · 16-02-2012 8:42pm

scotty_irish wrote: »

And weed doesn't have anywhere near the impact that the likes of coke/heroine have.

Joan of Arc knows this only too well.

giles lynchwood wrote: »

The government are trying to divide and conquer the people of Ireland and what better way to do that then suspicion.
Remember,It's only a crime if you get caught.

The secret police are on the way.
The Poles can tell you a lot about that.

Dudess · 16-02-2012 8:44pm

Lots of people who are viewed as scammers would find it hard to get employment anyway - it's a cycle. If you've **** all education and opportunity all your life, you're in a pretty crap position to further yourself. I'm not making excuses but it often goes deeper than just not bothering to look for work.

As for people on the dole getting a few quid on the side for the odd nixer, childminding etc, which on their own wouldn't be enough to live on, I think fair play... they're obviously not just arsing around.

stupidusername · 16-02-2012 8:45pm

I don't see how it's spineless to report a crime.

xzanti · 16-02-2012 8:59pm

stupidusername wrote: »

I don't see how it's spineless to report a crime.

Indeed... quite the opposite imho.

LH Pathe · 16-02-2012 9:01pm

TheZohan wrote: »

jewett wrote: »

..Ireland really is changing for the worse.

"ratting on"...FFS. I suppose if a mate of yours was involved in a hit and run you wouldn't report them either?

The phrase rat is a giveaway alright if you know somethings wrong which is likely the reason for secrecy then see/hear/speak of. Everytime. **** the scangsters n their rat code, **** the regular creeps nobody gets free reign - call it. skeletons out the closet n out now. Only breeding timid, meek repressed cowards and a weird undercurrent of repression with code of secrecy. In this case the shameless must be exposed

TheZohanS · 16-02-2012 9:05pm

jewett wrote: »

What I am saying is why do people take action when their is anonymity?

Where has the affirmative action been when it comes to corrupt bankers,
senior civil servants and politicians? None. People have just sat on their
h@les doing sweet fa.

And what are you doing right now?

Sitting on your h@le doing sweet fa posting anonymously on the internet.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 16-02-2012 9:07pm

Do your bit for your country, I'm reporting anyone who I feel needs to be investigated. I'm not a rat I'm a patriot. :pac:

pragmatic1 · 16-02-2012 9:12pm

Nevore wrote: »

Fùck that noise. My taxes pay for Jacinta's weed.

Jacinta says tanks love.

pragmatic1 · 16-02-2012 9:13pm

Another day another moan.

fat__tony · 16-02-2012 9:19pm

kfallon wrote: »

You are more than welcome to leave......

Is that all people have to offer when someone criticises the country?

"If you don't like it, then emigrate/leave/**** off?"

Pathetic and typical of the 'Im alright Jack" attitude that still prevails.

Im glad I ****ed off years ago.

philologos · 16-02-2012 9:23pm

You find it extremely sad that people are being honest? Each to their own I suppose!

Dr. Manhattan · 16-02-2012 9:25pm

Feisar wrote: »

Define what a friend is, if it's a casual acquaintance/drinking buddy at the weekends then yea report them. A real friend who's been there through thick and thin, no not a chance.

So crime is ok so long as I'm a friend of yours, but you'd turn me in if I'm just a mate. Ok,got it.

OP, the class of Omerta you espouse is why so many crimes of all kinds go unpunished. Doing nothing is the spineless option, not reporting.

LH Pathe · 16-02-2012 9:29pm

Enough shame in drawing the dole for one but when they're the stereotypical scrounger, which is shameful in itself who has no shame in drawing it once anyhow let alone twice..?! In fact the conniving only bolsters his esteem in his dole-pride. Come on man.. "Spineless nation" only leads me to believe everyone's at it. Only spinelessness is the cover-up of such

ChippingSodbury · 16-02-2012 9:31pm

stupidusername wrote: »

I don't see how it's spineless to report a crime.

Well said. We are a Society (still). It is everybody's duty to play by the rules. We all had our part to play in this country's downfall, some more than others, it must be said, so there's no point in blaming politicians/ senior civil servants/ bankers/ developers. Most people accepted pay rises, racked up fair amounts of debt, bought houses/ cars/ holidays/ tans/ beer etc. etc.
I'm sick of the "it was someone else's fault" attitude as long as the someone else isn't an ordinary Joe like themselves. SW fraud is adding to the problem and is a crime: it's black and white. And to the previous poster who says sure it's only 0.1% of the SW budget: that's a hell of a lot of money that could be put to good use in other areas. Yes, the SW staff need to stop making mistakes as well but fixing the two issues are not mutually exclusive.

LH Pathe · 16-02-2012 9:37pm

Anyone reports me for the crime of smoking weed I'll kill em - if I can find out who. Abide by my double standards else >

Duckworth_Luas · 16-02-2012 10:03pm

jewett wrote: »

I am ashamed to be Irish today.

As a taxpayer , lets get this straight from the start - I do not condone social welfare fraud.

However, I find it extremely sad that people - neighbors, relatives and friends and now "ratting" on each other to the state. There is now going to an atmosphere of mutual distrust in our communities. This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.

Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening.

Ireland really is changing for the worse.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for Jewett,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Jewett.

Then they came for me,
and I was grand, cause I'm not a commie, a douchebag or a dole cheat.

ilovesleep · 16-02-2012 10:15pm

The op has touched on something very important. There is major discrimination and inequality issues happening in society.

What makes it acceptable to target one group of fraudsters and not the other?

Why are people happy to create and live with such divisions in society?

boobar · 16-02-2012 10:25pm

jewett wrote: »

What I am saying is why do people take action when their is anonymity?

Where has the affirmative action been when it comes to corrupt bankers,
senior civil servants and politicians? None. People have just sat on their
h@les doing sweet fa.

People take action when their identities are protected because they may fear the actions of the wrong-doer if they discover who reported them. To be fair Joan Burton did say today that all anonymous reportings of fraud are investigated. Some investigations find fraud, some don't.

As regards people not doing anything about corrupt bankers, well this wrongdoing is not as visible, what I mean is if one sees a neighbour taking on a painting job when they know this neighbour is on the dole, well they put two and two together.

How many of the general public would have the same level of insight into the goings on in Anglo Irish Bank? Not many, I'd guess. So they couldn't go reporting the Bank to anyone, you know what I mean.

In fairness, I can understand your disgust at the way one section of society who defraud the Social Welfare system are treated in comparison to the white collar fraudsters.

What a spineless nation...

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