Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 6:59pm #1

It was announced during the week that David Cameron plans to curb social welfare entitlements and social housing access to non British citizens.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/uk-limits-foreigners-access-to-welfare-housing-healthcare-20130325-2gq6p.html

Is it time Ireland followed suit?

In Fingal, some 70 different nationalities are on the housing list. One in four, are non EU citizens.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

Eastern european nationals unemployment rate ranges from 20-25 percent. Whilst some new arrivals from Africa, have a staggering unemployment rate of near 40 percent.

http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/

Compare these figures with the number of unemployed Irish emigrants in Australia - their unemployment rate is 2 percent. No social housing for them. Work or starve.

Is it time we became more stringent - welcome workers and toss out those who cannot look after themselves without state support?

EDIT: There are currently 30, 000 non Irish families on the social housing list - http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/HousingStatistics/

Ranicand · 29-03-2013 7:04pm

It is my experience these threads never go well.

The usual suspects will be on before long screaming racism.

The truth can not be told and the usual suspects will bait users who dare speak the truth and get them banned.

Because we all know it is very hateful to disagree with throwing money away to people who have never or will never contribute a cent to this state.

I will be one of those people when things get to the Cyprus stage saying I told you so.

Praetorian Saighdiuir · 29-03-2013 7:04pm

This should be good!

I think social welfare fraud needs to be tackled properly first.

ejmaztec · 29-03-2013 7:05pm

Send em all home................. oh wait

Man flew home from Poland to collect welfare

A LISTOWEL man claimed over €7,500 in fraudulent social welfare payments when he travelled from Poland home to Kerry to sign on every month for over a year.

Tim Kennelly (45) from Rathea, Listowel, was eventually caught by gardaí and social welfare officers at Cork Airport as he attempted to leave the country after claiming job seekers allowance here.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/man-flew-home-from-poland-to-collect-welfare-29157958.html

gcgirl · 29-03-2013 7:05pm

People need 2 year residence before they are entitled to anything!

Yamanoto · 29-03-2013 7:06pm

Here comes the Wayne again.....

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:10pm

gcgirl wrote: »

People need 2 year residence before they are entitled to anything!

Do you honestly believe that every lad and lassie on the dole has paid two years worth of stamps/has been here for two years before claiming?

You are remarkably naive if you do.

gcgirl · 29-03-2013 7:11pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

Send em all home................. oh wait

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/man-flew-home-from-poland-to-collect-welfare-29157958.html

Only thing is you've to sign down the post office everyweek!
They stopped electronic payments to different benefits

gcgirl · 29-03-2013 7:12pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that every lad and lassie on the dole has paid two years worth of stamps/has been here for two years before claiming?

You are remarkably niave if you do.

If they are not Irish yes it's different if your IRISH

ejmaztec · 29-03-2013 7:15pm

gcgirl wrote: »

Only thing is you've to sign down the post office everyweek!
They stopped electronic payments to different benefits

I know, but it must have been good while it lasted.:(

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:16pm

gcgirl wrote: »

If they are not Irish yes it's different if your IRISH

To qualify for Seekers Benefit you need two years worth of stamps and residence. For Seekers Allowance, not so, although it is means tested and applicants must prove that Ireland is their main centre of interest (bank statement, lease and a phone bill would prove this).

Hope that clears up your misconceptions.

Chinasea · 29-03-2013 7:16pm

Ranicand wrote: »

It is my experience these threads never go well.

The usual suspects will be on before long screaming racism.

The truth can not be told and the usual suspects will bait users who dare speak the truth and get them banned.

Because we all know it is very hateful to disagree with throwing money away to people who have never or will never contribute a cent to this state.

Ah, the classic bullying technique. Lay the stall out from the onset egging the charming 'usual suspects' to scorn, snarl and attack anyone, who might actually despise hate filled, unfounded, racist myopic postings.

biko · 29-03-2013 7:17pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

You are remarkably niave if you do.

Hmm, English not your first language?

Only messing, chuck everyone out, start with the brits TAL 1981 no surrender!!1

Gatling · 29-03-2013 7:17pm

We should adopt the same approach,
I don't see why we can't make non nationals who haven't or never will contribute anything to this country go to there respective embassy's to be supported

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:19pm

Chinasea wrote: »

Ah, the classic bullying technique. Lay the stall out from the onset egging the charming 'usual suspects' to scorn, snarl and attack anyone, who might actually despise hate filled, unfounded, racist myopic postings.

Ive given my sources for the figures used in my opening piece.

gcgirl · 29-03-2013 7:20pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

To qualify for Seekers Benefit you need two years worth of stamps and residence. For Seekers Allowance, not so, although it is means tested and applicants must prove that Ireland is their main centre of interest (bank statement, lease and a phone bill would prove this).

Hope that clears up your misconceptions.

Look up job seekers allowance for Irish residence
: )

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_allowance.html

Ranicand · 29-03-2013 7:22pm

Chinasea wrote: »

Ah, the classic bullying technique. Lay the stall out from the onset egging the charming 'usual suspects' to scorn, snarl and attack anyone, who might actually despise hate filled, unfounded, racist myopic postings.

I have Aspergers so it is a FACT my mind does not work that way.

I don't see any hate in my post.

I speak the truth as I see it and I do not lay traps but I have experience of falling into to them.

If people are genuine give them a job not a handout.

If there are no jobs we can not afford handouts anyway.

I am done with this thread even this reply was one too many.

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:24pm

gcgirl wrote: »

Look up job seekers allowance for Irish residence
: )

Just did. No mention of two years anywhere on the page. In fact, it says if you are employed here for one, then you should have no problem qualifying for benefits if you find yourself unemployed.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html

Celly Smunt · 29-03-2013 7:26pm

No,you deny migrants basic needs and put them on the back foot you end up like France.

gcgirl · 29-03-2013 7:27pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Just did. No mention of two years anywhere on the page. In fact, it says if you are employed here for one, then you should have no problem qualifying for benefits if you find yourself unemployed.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html

I was referring to Irish people if you read what I wrote

deisedave · 29-03-2013 7:27pm

Ranicand wrote: »

I have Aspergers so it is a FACT my mind does not work that way.

I don't see any hate in my post.

I speak the truth as I see it and I do not lay traps but I have experience of falling into to them.

If people are genuine give them a job not a handout.

If there are no jobs we can not afford handouts anyway.

I am done with this thread even this reply was one too many.

WE get it!!! You have Aspergers stopping bringing it up in every thread for god sake.

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:29pm

pmcmahon wrote: »

No,you deny migrants basic needs and put them on the back foot you end up like France.

Sweden lashes out welfare at their migrant populations - its bad, if not worse, than in France.

I note that you are in Canada. If you are Irish and on a whv, you are entitled to nothing. Are they denying you your basic needs?

gallag · 29-03-2013 7:29pm

Up North many roma are selling big issues and can then get all working benefits, is it the same down south?

Praetorian Saighdiuir · 29-03-2013 7:30pm

deisedave wrote: »

WE get it!!! You have Aspergers stopping bringing it up in every thread for god sake.

Jesus that's a bit much.....you have no opinion on the topic? You just here to abuse posters?

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:30pm

gcgirl wrote: »

I was referring to Irish people if you read what I wrote

You said that you had to live here for two years before claiming welfare. Which is false.

Celly Smunt · 29-03-2013 7:33pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Sweden lashes out welfare at their migrant populations - its bad, if not worse, than in France.

I note that you are in Canada. If you are Irish and on a whv, you are entitled to nothing. Are they denying you your basic needs?

I'm in fact back in Ireland and very lucky to be a dual citizen.There is employment in Canada,there is no employement here.How can you expect migrants to come here and live off the earth.The only sensible option for Ireland is to restrict entry to migrants more so at the moment for their own sake by taking action at source.Until then I support social welfare looking after immigrants.

Gongoozler · 29-03-2013 7:34pm

If you are an EU/EEA resident, moving to Ireland you can claim Jobseekers Allowance, based on your means. Of course you need to show your plan is to stay here and build a life here. Outside of EU/EEA residents, I don't know how it works.

Logical_Bear · 29-03-2013 7:36pm

Ranicand wrote: »

I will be one of those people when things get to the Cyprus stage saying I told you so.

and what the fuk does migrants claiming welfare have to do with cyprus?

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:37pm

pmcmahon wrote: »

I'm in fact back in Ireland and very lucky to be a dual citizen.There is employment in Canada,there is no employement here.How can you expect migrants to come here and live off the earth.The only sensible option for Ireland is to restrict entry to migrants more so at the moment for their own sake by taking action at source.Until then I support social welfare looking after immigrants.

Jesus. H. Christ.

Can we direct them to your place? Such an egalitarian would welcome them with open arms, right?

mikemac1 · 29-03-2013 7:37pm

A thread with lots of links and you even gave a link to the Central Statistics Office.

Good work OP

Logical_Bear · 29-03-2013 7:40pm

Ranicand wrote: »

I have Aspergers so it is a FACT my mind does not work that way.

thats your look out as they say. Doesnt invalidate what chinsea said either

Ranicand · 29-03-2013 7:40pm

I can't resist one more post.

Here is how things will go.

The OP is a clear rejoined banned member for a start.

This thread will quickly leave the facts behind while the two faced so called nice people get as many people banned as they can for posting facts.

See OP that is why you were banned you stir up the crap.

These threads always end up with posters bashing each other.

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:41pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

A thread with lots of links and you even gave a link to the Central Statistics Office.

Good work OP

Thanks!

Forgot to add in the link for the unemployment rate of Irish nationals in Australia (2.4%)

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

suicide_circus · 29-03-2013 7:43pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

It was announced during the week that David Cameron plans to curb social welfare entitlements and social housing access to non British citizens.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/uk-limits-foreigners-access-to-welfare-housing-healthcare-20130325-2gq6p.html

Is it time Ireland followed suit?

In Fingal, some 70 different nationalities are on the housing list. One in four, are non EU citizens.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

Eastern european nationals unemployment rate ranges from 20-25 percent. Whilst some new arrivals from Africa, have a staggering unemployment rate of near 40 percent.

http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/

Compare these figures with the number of unemployed Irish emigrants in Australia - their unemployment rate is 2 percent. No social housing for them. Work or starve.

Is it time we became more stringent - welcome workers and toss out those who cannot look after themselves without state support?

Those without stamps should have their "entitlements" curtailed on a sliding scale. This goes for anyone who has never worked.
But certainly non EU citizens should get basically zero.

mattjack · 29-03-2013 7:44pm

Gongoozler wrote: »

If you are an EU/EEA resident, moving to Ireland you can claim Jobseekers Allowance, based on your means. Of course you need to show your plan is to stay here and build a life here. Outside of EU/EEA residents, I don't know how it works.

If you satisfy the habitual residence test .

RasTa · 29-03-2013 7:46pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Sweden lashes out welfare at their migrant populations - its bad, if not worse, than in France.

I note that you are in Canada. If you are Irish and on a whv, you are entitled to nothing. Are they denying you your basic needs?

You've obviously never being to Sweden.

Anyway one of your articles mentioned 53k people came here in 2011 and some 30% claiming benefits so this type of suggestion wouldn't really save much money.

Good PR move for Cameron

Celly Smunt · 29-03-2013 7:46pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Jesus. H. Christ.

Can we direct them to your place? Such an egalitarian would welcome them with open arms, right?

You don't get it clearly.Immigration should be halted or at least more restricted for now Ireland.There are no employment oppertunities for those coming without work.However since the immigration authorities don't seem to want to restrict access,it only makes sense to give immigrants some sort of chance on getting on their feet here than to purge them into complete poverty here.What would your suggestion be? Throw them on the streets? Build new areas for immigrants so they can all be impoverished there?.The irsh government has to either restrict access/throw them out or support them while they're here if they can't get work otherwise you get a poor immigrant community with no opportunities leading to a battlefield for everybody in the coming years.

pragmatic1 · 29-03-2013 7:49pm

I'd like to see them get welfare entitlements up until a certain point. For example unemployment benefit for a few months if they're between jobs and health care.

After that point I don't see why it's our responsibility to support citizens of another sovereign state, especially when we're struggling ourselves.

I don't see anything controversial about this.

youtube! · 29-03-2013 7:50pm

Look it should be very simple. Come to Ireland to work. If you cannot secure work then you go home. If you can secure work but become unemployed then collect your Jobseekers benefit for the 9 months or whatever the term is.
At the end of this term if you have been unsuccessful in your efforts to find employment then it time to go back to your own country or wherever you want but don't expect to claim benefits in Ireland forever just because you have paid stamps for a year or two. I think Cameron is absolutely on the ball here we should definitely follow suit. (AWAITS FLAMES)

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 7:52pm

pmcmahon wrote: »

You don't get it clearly.Immigration should be halted or at least more restricted for now Ireland.There are no employment oppertunities for those coming without work.However since the immigration authorities don't seem to want to restrict access,it only makes sense to give immigrants some sort of chance on getting on their feet here than to purge them into complete poverty here.What would your suggestion be? Throw them on the streets? Build new areas for immigrants so they can all be impoverished there?.The irsh government has to either restrict access/throw them out or support them while they're here if they can't get work otherwise you get a poor immigrant community with no opportunities leading to a battlefield for everybody in the coming years.

Come here, have a stab at finding work. If after 3 months they cant find any, probably best they try somewhere else. Hooking people up to the welfare state indefinitely will just entice more people to come here. We are cutting essential services as is.

But if people want to come here, legally, and chance their arm at finding employment or becoming self employed - fine. Once they can support themselves.

Sweden adopted similar to what you are proposing, it aint working out so well.

KuriousOranj · 29-03-2013 7:53pm

gallag wrote: »

Up North many roma are selling big issues and can then get all working benefits, is it the same down south?

I used to work for Ireland's Big Issue Magazine and from my experience dealing with the DSW,they have no problem with anyone of any nationality claiming benefit and selling the magazine because it doesnt inhibit the sellers actively seeking work,and they don't make any sort of substantial money selling the mag anyway.

The vast majority of Roma people I've dealt with were entitled to no benefits upon arrival here,and ended up living in squats or in tents in the Phoenix Park while selling the magazine.

Grand Moff Tarkin · 29-03-2013 7:56pm

A good friend of mine has worked his entire adult life and in the last year had his work hours cut down to fifteen hours a week. He has been signing on for the days he is not working as he is entitled to do and last week received a letter from the department of social payments stating that unless they see proof that he is actively seeking employment for the two days of the week he is signing on that he will be cut off from the exchange. Yet you get people coming here from every corner of the globe and getting money for nothing and i have to wonder would any asylum seekers or "political refugees" get similar letters if they are in receipt of payments after a certain length of time.

Gee_G · 29-03-2013 7:58pm

KuriousOranj wrote: »

I used to work for Ireland's Big Issue Magazine and from my experience dealing with the DSW,they have no problem with anyone of any nationality claiming benefit and selling the magazine because it doesnt inhibit the sellers actively seeking work,and they don't make any sort of substantial money selling the mag anyway.

The vast majority of Roma people I've dealt with were entitled to no benefits upon arrival here,and ended up living in squats or in tents in the Phoenix Park while selling the magazine.

How Does it not inhibit the sellers jobseeking? And how are they entitled to claim jobseekers benefit/allowance just because they are not making substantial money? sure the majority of the population of Ireland are no longer making substantial money!
I'm not being smart by the way, just wondering what sort of explanation the Social would give!

Grayditch · 29-03-2013 7:58pm

SEVENTY NATIONALITIES?

That's pretty cool!

yabadabado · 29-03-2013 8:00pm

gcgirl wrote: »

People need 2 year residence before they are entitled to anything!

incorrect

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 8:02pm

Grayditch wrote: »

SEVENTY NATIONALITIES?

That's pretty cool!

Not if you are the poor sap getting up at the crack of dawn every morning to pay your own mortgage and their welfare to boot.

RasTa · 29-03-2013 8:05pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Not if you are the poor sap getting up at the crack of dawn every morning to pay your own mortgage and their welfare to boot.

How much will this save? That's all that matters.

Gongoozler · 29-03-2013 8:06pm

mattjack wrote: »

If you satisfy the habitual residence test .

That's what I mean by 'show your plan is to stay here and build a life here'. That's what the habitual residence test is.

Death and Taxes · 29-03-2013 8:07pm

WayneMolloy wrote: »

To qualify for Seekers Benefit you need two years worth of stamps and residence. For Seekers Allowance, not so, although it is means tested and applicants must prove that Ireland is their main centre of interest (bank statement, lease and a phone bill would prove this).

Hope that clears up your misconceptions.

Post is so wrong it defies belief!

Death and Taxes · 29-03-2013 8:08pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

A good friend of mine has worked his entire adult life and in the last year had his work hours cut down to fifteen hours a week. He has been signing on for the days he is not working as he is entitled to do and last week received a letter from the department of social payments stating that unless they see proof that he is actively seeking employment for the two days of the week he is signing on that he will be cut off from the exchange. Yet you get people coming here from every corner of the globe and getting money for nothing and i have to wonder would any asylum seekers or "political refugees" get similar letters if they are in receipt of payments after a certain length of time.

Asylum seekers cannot claim dole and are prohibited from working.

WayneMolloy · 29-03-2013 8:10pm

RasTa wrote: »

How much will this save? That's all that matters.

Quite a considerable amount. There are 70 different nationalities on the fingal county council housing list alone.

We can no longer afford to be overtly generous. Once the UK clamps down on this, where do you think the welfare tourists will look to next?

Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

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