Bloodborne (From Software / Sony)

Kirby wrote: »

"Graphics" is a broad term. The issue is how they characters on screen move and interact. It's very 90's era. There is no fluidity to anything and the player seems to float above the house and street...not walk through it.

I really wish they would hire some new animators. The characters and enemies all move with the same spastic jankyness as weve seen from From Software for years. Compare how they move to characters in the Last of Us. Naughty Dog is a sony studio too....maybe they could lend some expertise.

It's not really the animators fault though. Both Demons Souls and Dark Souls featured animations which were entirely hand-animated, a rather stark departure from more modern games where there's at least some mo-cap done before animators move in and clean up the resulting output. Dark Souls 2 changed this with some mo-cap being employed which led to visibly improved animations across the board.

In terms of general fluidity though, I was always under the impression that the animation setup was entirely intentional for the Souls series. Attacks are slow, deliberate and carry a real weight to them. Once you've committed to an attack, you're in for the long haul. Where this can fall down is their somewhat janky physics implementation which can lead to rather questionable hit detection at times.

Were they to change this, however, they may run the risk of it not feeling as Souls-like as it once was. Perhaps it's something they just don't want to change? I've yet to play Lords of the Fallen but that appeared to move more in a Dark Souls but with smoother animation and attack cancelling type direction?

Kirby wrote: »

I'm talking about the animation itself, not how long you are vulnerable when you miss an attack. Forget about attacking, just look at the way he moves around. When he strafes from right to left. There is no transition frames there. It goes from Mode A "Strafe right" to "Mode B "Strafe left" with nothing inbetween. Compare these two bouncing balls for an example of what I'm talking about.

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I've only touched this area and there is more to examine. But there is a difference between youtube idiots screaming "M0r grffix plx lol" and being disappointed in how Bloodborne is shaping up. These aren't design choices. It's lack of talent. From need to hire some new people.

Ah! Well, the issue you're describing there is one of animation blending, or lack thereof, between the various animations. The cause of this could be anything from poor animations themselves to underlying issues with their engine or the work they've done on top of PhyreEngine. Assuming it hasn't been done by actual choice, the problem with fixing this is that it's not just a case of a lack of individual talent, it's a lack of budget.

To put it in context, for Dark Souls 2 the FROM animation team consisted of one animator for the player and four assigned to the enemies with the rest of the content being produced by various outsourcing companies. Uncharted 3, on the other hand, had over 40 animators on the project between ND staff and other Sony employees alone. The latter, it seems, are confined to working on projects across other SCE Worldwide Studios, not ones simply published by the company.

As to why Sony don't invest more in the project, your guess is as good as mine there.

Kirby wrote: »

I take your point about investment but talent is the crux of it. There are beautifully made games out there made by single people or small teams of people. Throwing money at it works, but so does hiring talented people.

And the souls games are good sellers. We aren't talking nichie indie games here....they sell millions of copies. The studio can afford to hire a few new people.

Frankly it seems a shame to create lovely worlds, and populate them with characters that move like Mr game and watch.

Oh I'm in complete agreement with you on the need to hire more talented people, the only distinction I make is that it would be to supplement their team rather than replace the existing members due to a perceived lack of talent. It's also quite possible to create a beautiful looking game with a smaller team but with a series like Dark Souls, where there are so many different animations required for various weapons, spells and then enemy variants on top of that, attempting to do so with a tiny animation team and relying heavily on outsourced work more than likely isn't going to result in the kind of quality many people expect.

My budget comment also isn't just about pure monetary investment to throw people at it but to give their team the time to create and then refine their work. As you've said, there's some lovely content in the series but the lack of polish in that area is particularly disappointing, especially in the face of such excellent design.

As for the sales justifying the development costs, it's worth bearing in mind that they're good sellers, not stellar ones. Both Dark Souls titles, for instance, racked up a little over two million copies across both console platforms internationally. Figuring out Demons Souls sales is rather difficult given the staggered launch and different publishers. Regardless, while it certainly deserves a bigger budget, again, expectations should be tempered for a relatively niche PS4 only release.

calex71 wrote: »

Yeah same here, I like what I see but this is the only game on PS4 I'd have much interest in that I can't get on Xbox, no way I can justify the expense

justified for me love the souls games, but I can't commit to it 100% just yet until its released and their are some honest reviews of it from certain youtubers I watch if they greenlight it I will happily buy a console for it, uncharted 4 down the line will be a bonus for it

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Probably harder because no one will know how to play it. All the Souls games could be beaten by shielding and observing enemy patterns until you got them down. No shielding here it seems.

Meh, I played Dark Souls 2 and never used a shield... just dual fist weapon'd everything w/ roll... want' even that hard. And roll seems to be buffed in this game because that's all you got so i-frames ahoy.

Have ways to join with certain people been annouched o mighty Xenji? Like the Engraved Ring but more accurate if you understand

Apparently there is a password system to join co-op. Eg. You type a password, and you can only find people using the same password

Kirby wrote: »

Hmm. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Some of the best co op experiences I've had in the Souls series came with random people joining my game or me joining theirs. Only two people on my friends list were hardcore souls fans and if they werent on I had to make do with randomers........so I think a lot of people will miss out on co op experiences if this is the only way to play online.

This is just an optional way to play with friends. Most of the online will still be done the way the souls series were with randoms.

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Is out 25th or 27th?

I'm seeing 25th for EU but 27th for UK. Which one are we getting lumped into?

We'll get it on the Friday, like the UK