Irish Rail - 4 Carriage DARTs and rising fares (speculation)

CIE · 07-09-2012 6:51am

bk wrote: »

I hope they will go the opposite direction, shorter, but more frequent DARTS.

That's more labour-intensive. And it also leaves platforms crowded. Puts a huge dent in average speeds, as well as increases interference with intercity and medium-hop commuter rail.

Cookie_Monster · 07-09-2012 7:53am

CIE wrote: »

That's more labour-intensive.

true but since they're cutting loads of the running on many routes there'll be a surplus of drivers anyway.

And it also leaves platforms crowded.

not really, less time for crowds to build up so the lower capacity per train is offset and more by the increased frequency. 8 carriages every 15 mins v say 4 carraiges every 5

Puts a huge dent in average speeds,

how? if anything means trains will be stopped slightly shorter at each stop I would have though, increasing average speed?

as well as increases interference with intercity and medium-hop commuter rail.

again there'll be less of these with the cuts and DART really should have priority anyway since the numbers using it is much greater

won't happen though because the capacity of the loop bridge and connolly area is dismally low.

bk · 07-09-2012 7:59am

Like Cookie_Monster said, this is what mass transit is supposed to be like, quick, frequent service. Like Luas, London Underground or pretty much any other Metro in the world.

This is how DART should be, not the current, terribly infrequent service.

Yes the downside of this is that it requires more drivers. But IMO it is a price worth paying to turn the DART into a real mass transit system.

Alternatively you could look at automating the DART and making it driver less.

Africa · 07-09-2012 10:55am

Havent seen a 4 carriager in a few days; anyone else?

bikeman1 · 07-09-2012 11:20am

Africa wrote: »

Havent seen a 4 carriager in a few days; anyone else?

I was on a 4 car last night but that was the 19:30 ex Howth. So no problems as it was off peak.

Good driver as well, didn't pull all the way to the end of the platform.

The Idyll Race · 07-09-2012 11:29am

bk wrote: »

Like Cookie_Monster said, this is what mass transit is supposed to be like, quick, frequent service. Like Luas, London Underground or pretty much any other Metro in the world.

This is how DART should be, not the current, terribly infrequent service.

Yes the downside of this is that it requires more drivers. But IMO it is a price worth paying to turn the DART into a real mass transit system.

Alternatively you could look at automating the DART and making it driver less.

I'm with you bk on this, the USP of DART when it was created was the frequency of trains meant that while it was useful to have, you didn't need a timetable to access the service. Fifteen minute head way off peak, five minute on peak. This meant that the bulk of the trains were two-carriage off peak and four on-peak. In the intervening years population increases mean that they do need a minimum four carriage set, but the messing with the infamous GEC Alsthom sets means that Irish Rail do not have as many sets available for service as they should.

A faulty product brought in a shop must be replaced. Irish Rail should have had the Alsthoms put right or replaced, and it is really as simple as that.

Go back to fifteen minute headways off peak and five minute on peak, and timetable the diesel services to fit into that pattern and not disrupt it. Not rocket science, and the management and unions shouldn't be wringing their hands and saying why they can't do it.

dowlingm · 07-09-2012 5:49pm

My understanding is that another issue with the 8200s was the cost of spares and IE's reluctance to buy enough of same, along with any general deficiency in the platform. A fleet of 10 cars is always going to be expensive to maintain on a per-car basis - depending on MTBF one spare widget might cover 10 cars or 100 cars (based on deploying the part and the leadtime to get a replacement for stock) and speaks to the downside of building a fleet on a tender here and a tender there. As another "type" there is also driver currency to consider, so plainly if there are more than 10 cars spare the 8200s should always be 10 of those rather than complicating rostering.

As for the issue at hand, in theory completion of DASH2 should allow DARTs to run closer together especially over the loop line and thus get more passengers moving with the same number of trains completing runs more quickly and heading back for more. In practice... well, we'll just have to see. The failure to complete DASH2 to date... well it doesn't help that IE pick upgrade times and then Howth businesses force them to abandon the planned date, for example.

The Idyll Race · 07-09-2012 5:56pm

dowlingm wrote: »

The failure to complete DASH2 to date... well it doesn't help that IE pick upgrade times and then Howth businesses force them to abandon the planned date, for example.

Oh yes, our old friend Vested Interests and their closely related Pet Politicians. Another thing that any replacement for CIE will have to proof itself against.

zagmund · 07-09-2012 7:15pm

bikeman1 wrote: »

Africa wrote: »

Havent seen a 4 carriager in a few days; anyone else?

I was on a 4 car last night but that was the 19:30 ex Howth. So no problems as it was off peak.

Good driver as well, didn't pull all the way to the end of the platform.

Was sat around Connolly yesterday evening waiting for the train to Rosslare. A 4 car went north about 1815.

As it happens I was smart and went right to the front of the train so all the people at the 'wrong end of the platform' in Pearse would be at the opposite end. Of course the driver stops half way down the platform and everyone waiting at the 'right end' had to rush down and squeeze on.

*This* is why we need platform announcements.

z

Africa · 08-09-2012 12:24pm

Yep. Was on a 4 carriager about half 6 myself. This is rush hour time. The train was PACKED by the time we were in Lansdowne coming from blackrock.

Planning to mail that place someone listed here about the dangers of these carriages. Stupid IE.

maggy_thatcher · 12-09-2012 1:59pm

The 07:25 service from Bray was still a 4-carriage train this morning; I guess they don't think many people want to be in town before 9 or something. It becomes somewhat "friendly" by the time it makes it to GCD!

As was the 17:45 service from Howth yesterday evening - I guess IE think rush hour is over by then!

bikeman1 · 13-09-2012 5:13pm

Just viewed a 4 car LHB set (older Dart) working the 16:45 Howth - Bray. This is crazy stuff to actually take off two cars for a train that leaves town at 17:15 in peak season is utter madness. They really are trying to drive people off the rails!

Chris_5339762 · 13-09-2012 5:14pm

Saw a few DARTs last Sunday and all of them were 8 cars heading into town at around midday....

LXFlyer · 13-09-2012 5:37pm

Well there was a big match on in Croke Park!

Jamie2k9 · 13-09-2012 7:11pm

There was a lot of 6 and 8 car sets operating this morning.

jimogr · 03-10-2012 7:40pm

Short 'summer' darts to continue it seems

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1003/breaking49.html

Sponge Bob · 03-10-2012 8:20pm

Barry Kenny said.

Iarnród Éireann is to maintain its summertime reduction in the size of some peak-hour Dart trains from eight carriages to four for the foreseeable future.

Dart carriages may “feel fuller than they would have” in the past,

May???? How about "we will pack you mugs in like sardines and blame the troika"

Cookie_Monster · 03-10-2012 9:18pm

nowhere do they actually use any kind of number or get passenger comments... just a few handy percentages here and there... Top notch journalism again

n97 mini · 03-10-2012 9:43pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

May???? How about "we will pack you mugs in like sardines and blame the troika"

Welcome to the Maynooth line.

Many is the time I travelled in to work in the guards van, after being hoisted aboard with loads of other customers out of the ditch in Castleknock as not only was the train too short, but the platforms were shorter.

N64 · 06-10-2012 1:01am

I was on the DART today and during a non peak time they use a 8 car set - when I came home around 6 ish - there was a 4 car set in which everybody was packed liked tinned sardines.

I could manage Irish Rail better - and I have not even completed my leaving cert yet! :rolleyes:

Northern Monkey · 08-10-2012 2:06pm

Got the 7.30 Malahide dart into town this morning. 4 carriages, stuffed full and heat on full blast :rolleyes: One girl fainted on our carriage with the heat, I'm sure there will be lots more of this happening over the next few months if they persevere with the squash them in like sardines approach.

Infini · 08-10-2012 3:39pm

I work In IR myself and even I can agree with some people here that the way they have some 4 pieces on during rush hour is kinda daft. Also noticed sometimes that one train can come up as a 4 piece and be packed and the next train behind is a 6/8 piece and half empty sometimes O.o U can never win

bikeman1 · 08-10-2012 5:41pm

Northern Monkey wrote: »

Got the 7.30 Malahide dart into town this morning. 4 carriages, stuffed full and heat on full blast :rolleyes: One girl fainted on our carriage with the heat, I'm sure there will be lots more of this happening over the next few months if they persevere with the squash them in like sardines approach.

That is a disgrace. And someone said on here that it was safe? On an 8 car home now thankfully and had an 8 car in, so avoiding them it seems. Was travelling yesterday. All DARTs were 4 cars and seemed to cope well with the Sunday demand. All nicely full with a few standees the way it should be. It would be better if they used the 8100s at the weekend, to get more bums on seats instead of the massive standing area on other sets.

N64 · 08-10-2012 8:07pm

bikeman1 wrote: »

That is a disgrace. And someone said on here that it was safe? On an 8 car home now thankfully and had an 8 car in, so avoiding them it seems. Was travelling yesterday. All DARTs were 4 cars and seemed to cope well with the Sunday demand. All nicely full with a few standees the way it should be. It would be better if they used the 8100s at the weekend, to get more bums on seats instead of the massive standing area on other sets.

I think its safe myself as many other rapid transit systems suffer the same sort of overcrowding issues and they generally get on fine (although it is undesirable to be in one)

I fully understand why Irish rail have to make these cutbacks but again, running a four car set in the middle of rush hour while there are 8 car trains operating at low use times is just plain and simply moronic.

Is this an issue the way the DART fleet is turned around at the end of the line?

dowlingm · 08-10-2012 8:30pm

Since IE don't seem to want to use all of their DARTs, might as well sell 'em... (1600mm too! Just needs a transformer swapout for 3kV and whatever they use for signalling etc)
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban-rail/single-view/view/trensurb-seeks-more-emus.html

eigrod · 11-10-2012 10:25am

The 5.27pm Tara to Greystones yesterday was 4 carriages. Absolutely scandalous.

Their stock response to numerous complaints on Twitter "We are providing capacity to match demand".

IrishRail Mission statement 2012 : "Prices up, services down, **** the customer."

Cookie_Monster · 11-10-2012 10:33am

eigrod wrote: »

Their stock response to numerous complaints on Twitter "We are providing capacity to match demand".

Multiple complaints about lack of capacity and that is the response?, outright lies to customers on the ground who are actually experiencing the problems.
:rolleyes: :mad::mad::mad:
fucking CIE, same old same old....

jimogr · 11-10-2012 11:07am

Barry Kenny will be on George Hook this evening. If a good few people email in about this issue it might get some airtime:

Barry Kenny of @IrishRail is my guest tomorrow on the show - questions/queries/complaints to therighthook@newstalk.ie

Infini · 11-10-2012 12:21pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Since IE don't seem to want to use all of their DARTs, might as well sell 'em... (1600mm too! Just needs a transformer swapout for 3kV and whatever they use for signalling etc)
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban-rail/single-view/view/trensurb-seeks-more-emus.html

Actually thad be stupid expecially considering those Units are not only in good condition but when they EVENTUALLY electrify the maynooth/m3 lines theyre gonna need those units to run on those lines. Or would u prefer 1 train an hour out that way forever now would ya? :P

foggy_lad · 11-10-2012 1:00pm

Infini2 wrote: »

Actually thad be stupid expecially considering those Units are not only in good condition but when they EVENTUALLY electrify the maynooth/m3 lines theyre gonna need those units to run on those lines. Or would u prefer 1 train an hour out that way forever now would ya? :P

The only electrification out to Maynooth in the foreseeable future will be if someone introduces electric eels into the Canal!

Irish Rail - 4 Carriage DARTs and rising fares (speculation)

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