Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

who_me · 30-04-2014 3:00pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if in 10/15/20 years time they extended the new stand around the back of one of the goals replacing one of the terraces or built a new stand opposite it. This plan looks like a phase 1 in a very long term plan. I'm sure it will be designed with this in mind.

Hopefully, it's a lot of money for (mostly) just one stand.

Are the non-covered stands going to be changed? Weren't there problems with the legroom with the existing seats? It could be awkward changing that if they're not rebuilding the non-covered stands.

CHealy · 30-04-2014 3:26pm

who_me wrote: »

Hopefully, it's a lot of money for (mostly) just one stand.

Are the non-covered stands going to be changed? Weren't there problems with the legroom with the existing seats? It could be awkward changing that if they're not rebuilding the non-covered stands.

As far as I can tell, there will be a brand new main stand, with the roof of the current main stand transferred over to the other side. The two terraces then will get a revamp. So all in all it will end up being a slightly newer looking Thurles stadium, which for the money being spent is a shame.

D'Agger · 30-04-2014 4:49pm

Am I correct in saying that the Marina is going to be developed as part of this plan?

It's a lovely part of Cork if it were tidied up a bit.

calnand · 30-04-2014 6:57pm

Yeah the marina park is being redeveloped, I say work should start this summer when Fitzgeralds park reopens.

RoyalCelt · 01-05-2014 5:48pm

calnand wrote: »

Yeah the marina park is being redeveloped, I say work should start this summer when Fitzgeralds park reopens.

Very exciting times if you're a resident of the area. The Marina is a lovely spot and the employment this will bring is very welcome.

If the 2 terraces are brought up to hill 16 standard then that won't be a bad thing. I can see the stand going around 3 sides similar to croker in 20-30 years and then leaving 1 side a terrace.

Dob74 · 02-05-2014 3:04am

D'Agger wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that the Marina is going to be developed as part of this plan?

It's a lovely part of Cork if it were tidied up a bit.

No the City give land to the GAA for half nothing after buying it to build a public park.
This stadium will be a waste of money. How many games attract over 20k in a year? Cork tipp in hurling is the only one that a crowd of over 30k is nailed on.

If public money is paying for it then it should be publicly owned.

D'Agger · 02-05-2014 10:26am

Dob74 wrote: »

No the City give land to the GAA for half nothing after buying it to build a public park.
This stadium will be a waste of money. How many games attract over 20k in a year? Cork tipp in hurling is the only one that a crowd of over 30k is nailed on.

If public money is paying for it then it should be publicly owned.

I'm assuming here which is always dangerous, but you'd imagine the stadium would be used to host gigs.

Rather than the Marquee you'd see gigs in the Park - for the money being put into the project, you'd imagine it has to be something they're looking at to generate revenue. Otherwise it will ultimately be a waste of funds.

Rhys Essien · 02-05-2014 10:47am

D'Agger wrote: »

I'm assuming here which is always dangerous, but you'd imagine the stadium would be used to host gigs.

Rather than the Marquee you'd see gigs in the Park - for the money being put into the project, you'd imagine it has to be something they're looking at to generate revenue. Otherwise it will ultimately be a waste of funds.

No,the new event centre/Arena will replace the Marquee,same capacity at 6,000 although PUC should definetly be used to host 1 or 2 concerts every summer like in the past with Oasis,U2 etc.

Just look at all the millions they lost out on between Oasis in 1996 and Springsteen in 2013.Does anyone know why there was nothing for 17 years?.

Nonoperational · 02-05-2014 7:55pm

Dob74 wrote: »

No the City give land to the GAA for half nothing after buying it to build a public park.
This stadium will be a waste of money. How many games attract over 20k in a year? Cork tipp in hurling is the only one that a crowd of over 30k is nailed on.

If public money is paying for it then it should be publicly owned.

The stadium is an absolute state at the moment. Delighted to see it being redeveloped.

bleary · 02-05-2014 10:19pm

There will hopefully never be another concert here again after the debacle that was springsteen last year. It was very close to a disaster and it took days afterwards for them to bother cleaning up. Im speaking as a resident and a concert goer. I was really looking forward to it, love events in the area like the marquee etc but it was a disaster.
Besides that the council have planning permission notice up now which seemed to say they are turning the show grounds into a park. This is where the all weather pitch is supposed to go i think. Has anything changed.

RoyalCelt · 03-05-2014 12:08am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

No,the new event centre/Arena will replace the Marquee,same capacity at 6,000 although PUC should definetly be used to host 1 or 2 concerts every summer like in the past with Oasis,U2 etc.

Just look at all the millions they lost out on between Oasis in 1996 and Springsteen in 2013.Does anyone know why there was nothing for 17 years?.

They probably will get a lot more when the two terraces are redone and the new side stand built. It will become a very attractive venue.

who_me · 06-05-2014 3:16pm

bleary wrote: »

Besides that the council have planning permission notice up now which seemed to say they are turning the show grounds into a park. This is where the all weather pitch is supposed to go i think. Has anything changed.

Some of the land CPO'd by the council is being used for the Marina Park (as originally intended), some for the PUC redevelopment & extra pitches, so it's probably not 100% wrong. But it probably suits them not to correct it - no one would ever likely object to parkland in their area.

RoyalCelt · 18-05-2014 1:29am

What's it like down on the ground it cork? Are the general public against it or is it just the usual anti gaa parade?

Someone made the point that Dublin city has had about 500million invested in it's stadiums from the govt so why doesn't cork, capital of the south deserve 30 million? Fair poit IMO and a lot of the money will make it's way back to the govt through vat anyway.

Add to this they want the rugby world cup and it's not as bad as some want you to think.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 9:12am

RoyalCelt wrote: »

What's it like down on the ground it cork? Are the general public against it or is it just the usual anti gaa parade?

Someone made the point that Dublin city has had about 500million invested in it's stadiums from the govt so why doesn't cork, capital of the south deserve 30 million? Fair poit IMO and a lot of the money will make it's way back to the govt through vat anyway.

Add to this they want the rugby world cup and it's not as bad as some want you to think.

For a stadium that will have anywhere near a capacity crowd only once or twice a year it's a huge amount of money to spend. Having said that, PuC is in a disgraceful and dangerous condition and it badly needs to be upgraded.

rebs23 · 18-05-2014 11:33am

namloc1980 wrote: »

For a stadium that will have anywhere near a capacity crowd only once or twice a year it's a huge amount of money to spend. Having said that, PuC is in a disgraceful and dangerous condition and it badly needs to be upgraded.

An upgraded PUC will attract a lot more big matches if it is upgraded. Cork fans are always travelling.
As a local, I am delighted this derelict area is being redeveloped. Considering the huge sums invested by the GAA and the Government elsewhere, good to see Cork gets a small slice of the cake.
Looking forward to Munster finals , hurling and football, AI series matches, Rugby World Cups, the big stadium size concerts all on my doorstep.
There has always been a stadium with a min capacity of 45,000 and it will attract the numbers over its lifetime to justify the money. The economic yield for Cork is huge. We cannot be the only City in Ireland without a modern stadium capable of holding major events.

Dob74 · 18-05-2014 12:02pm

rebs23 wrote: »

An upgraded PUC will attract a lot more big matches if it is upgraded. Cork fans are always travelling.
As a local, I am delighted this derelict area is being redeveloped. Considering the huge sums invested by the GAA and the Government elsewhere, good to see Cork gets a small slice of the cake.
Looking forward to Munster finals , hurling and football, AI series matches, Rugby World Cups, the big stadium size concerts all on my doorstep.
There has always been a stadium with a min capacity of 45,000 and it will attract the numbers over its lifetime to justify the money. The economic yield for Cork is huge. We cannot be the only City in Ireland without a modern stadium capable of holding major events.

People dont go to matches anymore. Capacity of 45000 is way to big. The Munster football final only had 12000 at it a few years ago. Cork v Kerry only gets 25000.
I am sick of public funds being doled out to the GAA. If its being paid for by the taxpayer it should be owned by the taxpayer. Especially if rugby games are being played there. What about soccer matches?
Will definately not be voting for are politician who supports this crap.

Dob74 · 18-05-2014 12:05pm

Nonoperational wrote: »

The stadium is an absolute state at the moment. Delighted to see it being redeveloped.

The stadium is a state because its not used.
Pay for it out of your own money if you feel its needs to be redeveloped.
Leave the taxpayer out of it

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 12:15pm

Dob74 wrote: »

The stadium is a state because its not used.

This isn't true though is it.

The stadium is in the state it is because it was built in the 1970s to a very poor standard. The stadium is going ahead as part of the big for the 2023 Rugby World Cup and this is part of the reason why it is getting €30m of public funding.

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 12:18pm

Close up render of the redevelopment.

two wheels good · 18-05-2014 12:44pm

Dob74 wrote: »

People dont go to matches anymore. Capacity of 45000 is way to big. The Munster football final only had 12000 at it a few years ago. Cork v Kerry only gets 25000.
I am sick of public funds being doled out to the GAA. If its being paid for by the taxpayer it should be owned by the taxpayer. Especially if rugby games are being played there. What about soccer matches?
Will definately not be voting for are politician who supports this crap.

Is it possible to find a voting record summary of local councillors?

Interesting interview with Cllr Dan Boyle and a GAA County Board rep. on Newstalk Lunchtime during the week. DBoyle was objecting to the €30m grant of public money to one of the wealthiest (sporting) org's in the country (that's my description). Also his objection to the Council breaking its promise to use the showgrounds land for a public park.

Minister Coveney states in The Examiner how it will be a stimulus to the local economy. Here's an idea for a more effective long-term investment stimulus - spend it on fixing the water supply network.

Interesting to read how poorly attended attended matches. Yet they produce such traffic chaos. It always strikes me how few coaches and buses are in attendance.
Here's an idea used in other cities: Every match ticket must include a voucher for public transport or Park and Ride service.

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 12:48pm

two wheels good wrote: »

Also his objection to the Council breaking its promise to use the showgrounds land for a public park.

80% of the show grounds land is still being used for the public park.

How many public parks does Cork need. Its getting an enormous one on the site of the Kinsale Road dump too. Is a rectangle of land the size of a GAA pitch really going to detract from Marina Park that badly ?

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 12:55pm

rebs23 wrote: »

An upgraded PUC will attract a lot more big matches if it is upgraded. Cork fans are always travelling.
As a local, I am delighted this derelict area is being redeveloped. Considering the huge sums invested by the GAA and the Government elsewhere, good to see Cork gets a small slice of the cake.
Looking forward to Munster finals , hurling and football, AI series matches, Rugby World Cups, the big stadium size concerts all on my doorstep.
There has always been a stadium with a min capacity of 45,000 and it will attract the numbers over its lifetime to justify the money. The economic yield for Cork is huge. We cannot be the only City in Ireland without a modern stadium capable of holding major events.

It won't attract a lot more big games. Cork, Tipp, Limerick and Kerry all have home and away agreements which won't have any impact. Thurles will continue to get it's fair share of other games. AI series qualifiers are in a home and away arrangement. QFs and beyond in football are locked into Croker for commercial reasons. An upgraded PuC might get an extra game every year or two but that'll be about it. For most counties beyond Munster it's not convenient to get to. The GAA won't play many games in Cork if they feel fans won't travel.

PuC is also very poorly served by local transport options. It's a nightmare to get to and out of on a big match day. None of that has been addressed in the redevelopment.

SpaceTime · 18-05-2014 12:58pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

80% of the show grounds land is still being used for the public park.

How many public parks does Cork need. Its getting an enormous one on the site of the Kinsale Road dump too. Is a rectangle of land the size of a GAA pitch really going to detract from Marina Park that badly ?

A lot more than it has. Cork has a serious lack of public parks compared to Dublin or any other city I've lived in.

I would rather see a proper municipal stadium instead of these smaller crappy stadia that Cork currently has.

Small and medium cities can really make stuff like that work.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 1:02pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

A lot more than it has. Cork has a serious lack of public parks compared to Dublin or any other city I've lived in.

I would rather see a proper municipal stadium instead of these smaller crappy stadia that Cork currently has.

Small and medium cities can really make stuff like that work.

Cork won't get a municipal stadium. None of the sporting orgs in Cork would cooperate in such a venture. Probably no need for it either.

FrStone · 18-05-2014 1:04pm

two wheels good wrote: »

Interesting interview with Cllr Dan Boyle and a GAA County Board rep. on Newstalk Lunchtime during the week. DBoyle was objecting to the €30m grant of public money to one of the wealthiest (sporting) org's in the country (that's my description). Also his objection to the Council breaking its promise to use the showgrounds land for a public park.

To be fair to Cllr Boyle, he has made some very good points. The GAA will charge other groups to use the stadium, yet it is going to be receiving a large amount of public funding. The GAA have neglected the stadium in recent years waiting for the tax payer to cough up.

The money would have been better spent in developing the marina area and as Cllr Boyle stated developing the showgrounds land into a public park.

It's a shame to see the money being thrown at the GAA when it could have been better used on other public facilities in Cork. The very least the government should have done is attached conditions to the grant, such as the stadium must be available to other organisations for 20 Saturdays of the year and the only charge being staff costs. Or even one free championship match a year, where tickets are available to the general public and not made available through the club system.

SpaceTime · 18-05-2014 1:10pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Cork won't get a municipal stadium. None of the sporting orgs in Cork would cooperate in such a venture. Probably no need for it either.

They should just cut all state funding to all of them until they cooporate though and fund the city council rather than sporting organisations.

FrStone · 18-05-2014 1:14pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

They should just cut all state funding to all of them until they cooporate though and fund the city council rather than sporting organisations.

Yep, if you avail of public funding you will comply with the requests of the taxpayer.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 1:15pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

They should just cut all state funding to all of them until they cooporate though and fund the city council rather than sporting organisations.

That will never happen. Anyway not sure how much state funding rugby or soccer actually get in Cork. Not much I'd say. I doubt you could design a stadium to meet everyone's needs. Do you put a running track for athletics too? What capacity? Where would it be built?

Hotale.com · 18-05-2014 1:18pm

When's it supposed to be completed?

I haven't heard a thing about this in months!

FrStone · 18-05-2014 1:18pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

That will never happen.

I some times think the reason it will never happen is because of the protectionist policies of the GAA and not because it couldn't happen.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 1:21pm

FrStone wrote: »

I some times think the reason it will never happen is because of the protectionist policies of the GAA and not because it couldn't happen.

Cutting all funding to sports in one city to force them to build a stadium that wouldn't suit any of them is something that couldn't and shouldn't happen.

SpaceTime · 18-05-2014 1:26pm

Why wouldn't it suit all of them?

You could have a state-of-the-art, large capacity stadium and possibly even a second smaller stadium for smaller games.

It could cope with GAA, rugby, soccer and also be open to smaller and emerging sports like hockey, American football etc.

You would also have scope for athletics and maybe even building a sports campus that could include an Olympic swimming pool etc etc

It would mean Cork could host major sports events. It would be an amazing concert venue etc etc etc

Ireland always uses public money to facilitate vested interests instead of the public good.

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 1:30pm

The state of stadiums in Italy is the clear example why soccer / rugby stadiums should never be built with an athletics track around it.

Not even 25 years after Italy 90 and most of those stadiums will be torn down as they had athletics tracks in them.

Also, the last thing Cork City needs is additional funding for city hall. All that will result is triple the traffic lights that are already in the city.

FrStone · 18-05-2014 1:43pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Also, the last thing Cork City needs is additional funding for city hall. All that will result is triple the traffic lights that are already in the city.

Different budgets. The money isn't coming from city hall it was apporved nationally. So no matter what it won't be going to City Hall. We will probably end up with traffic lights anyway though....

FrStone · 18-05-2014 1:45pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Cutting all funding to sports in one city to force them to build a stadium that wouldn't suit any of them is something that couldn't and shouldn't happen.

They wouldn't have to build it.

If we built a public stadium it could be used by all. Pairc Ui Chaoimh will not be available to all. It will generate a profit for the GAA and exclude many other sporting organistaions from using it. The GAA will have first call on times etc.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 1:59pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

Why wouldn't it suit all of them?

You could have a state-of-the-art, large capacity stadium and possibly even a second smaller stadium for smaller games.

It could cope with GAA, rugby, soccer and also be open to smaller and emerging sports like hockey, American football etc.

You would also have scope for athletics and maybe even building a sports campus that could include an Olympic swimming pool etc etc

It would mean Cork could host major sports events. It would be an amazing concert venue etc etc etc

Ireland always uses public money to facilitate vested interests instead of the public good.

And who would fund these 2 stadiums and swimming pool etc you speak of and where would they be built? Cork is not a suitable location for major events. A short distance away in London you have a state of the art Olympic Park with all these facilities and more. What could Cork possibly offer that London or a myriad of other cities across Europe can't to international sports organisers? What you propose is fantasy.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 2:02pm

FrStone wrote: »

They wouldn't have to build it.

If we built a public stadium it could be used by all. Pairc Ui Chaoimh will not be available to all. It will generate a profit for the GAA and exclude many other sporting organistaions from using it. The GAA will have first call on times etc.

Whose we? How big would the stadium be and who would use it? Where would it be built? The GAA would need 45k all seater, but that would be ridiculously over capacity for soccer and rugby and any other sport you care to mention in Cork.

Rhys Essien · 18-05-2014 2:02pm

FrStone wrote: »

They wouldn't have to build it.

If we built a public stadium it could be used by all. Pairc Ui Chaoimh will not be available to all. It will generate a profit for the GAA and exclude many other sporting organistaions from using it. The GAA will have first call on times etc.

Well there's a good chance it will be open for rugby in 9 years time.It would be good if the GAA and Munster Rugby could agree to stage the occasional big Munster game there for maximum capacity,nearly 20k more than Thomand.Afterall the taboo of foreign sports in GAA grounds is gone now.

Likewise,if Cork City get any big European games or big friendlies,they should also be played at PUC.

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 2:05pm

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Well there's a good chance it will be open for rugby in 9 years time.It would be good if the GAA and Munster Rugby could agree to stage the occasional big Munster game there for maximum capacity,nearly 20k more than Thomand.Afterall the taboo of foreign sports in GAA grounds is gone now.

Likewise,if Cork City get any big European games or big friendlies,they should also be played at PUC.

Frank Murphy isn't an idiot and I think his objection to foreign games in GAA stadiums has now passed.

The Pairc will form part of the 2023 Rugby World Cup bid and I have no doubt the new Pairc will host Cork City friendlies with big English teams if there's money to be made.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 2:11pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Frank Murphy isn't an idiot and I think his objection to foreign games in GAA stadiums has now passed.

The Pairc will form part of the 2023 Rugby World Cup bid and I have no doubt the new Pairc will host Cork City friendlies with big English teams if there's money to be made.

I doubt it. The pitch dimensions alone make soccer on a GAA pitch an unattractive prospect from a supporters point of view. I say that as someone who went to Croker for an Ireland game: the soccer pitch was lost in the huge expanse of the GAA pitch. In addition I could never see PuC being filled or close to it for a Cork City friendly. Better to have Turners X packed to the rafters with a buzzing atmosphere than a half empty PuC.

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 2:17pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

I doubt it. The pitch dimensions alone make soccer on a GAA pitch an unattractive prospect from a supporters point of view. I say that as someone who went to Croker for an Ireland game: the soccer pitch was lost in the huge expanse of the GAA pitch. In addition I could never see PuC being filled or close to it for a Cork City friendly. Better to have Turners X packed to the rafters with a buzzing atmosphere than a half empty PuC.

Get Man United or Liverpool over for a friendly and you'd fill the Pairc twice over.

Rhys Essien · 18-05-2014 2:21pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Get Man United or Liverpool over for a friendly and you'd fill the Pairc twice over.

The Liverpool reserves got ~43K at the Aviva during the week against Shamrock Rovers.:D

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 2:23pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Get Man United or Liverpool over for a friendly and you'd fill the Pairc twice over.

Really? How come Rovers' friendly with Liverpool drew 40k to the Aviva during the week... that's 10k under capacity??? If the best known team in Ireland playing Liverpool after their best season in years couldn't attract a full house in the country's biggest city by far, to say a game in cork would attract 90k is just pure fantasy.

Rhys Essien · 18-05-2014 2:34pm

Another thing,I still want to know why there was no concerts held at PUC between 1996 and 2013?

Anyone know??

An awful lot of lost revenue.Although in saying that,the Springsteen concert should never have went ahead there last year,for health and safety reasons alone.

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 2:36pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Really? How come Rovers' friendly with Liverpool drew 40k to the Aviva during the week... that's 10k under capacity??? If the best known team in Ireland playing Liverpool after their best season in years couldn't attract a full house in the country's biggest city by far, to say a game in cork would attract 90k is just pure fantasy.

Note the word "reserves" bolded in Rhys' post.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 2:50pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Note the word "reserves" bolded in Rhys' post.

And do you expect them to play their 1st team in these friendlies??????? Maybe they will just for us in Cork like!!!

Rhys Essien · 18-05-2014 2:54pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

And do you expect them to play their 1st team in these friendlies??????? Maybe they will just for us in Cork like!!!

Well at the Cross last summer,West Brom and West Ham played their first teams.Id say teams are more likely to do this for pre season rather than end of season games.

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 2:56pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

And do you expect them to play their 1st team in these friendlies??????? Maybe they will just for us in Cork like!!!

Real Madrid played their 1st team in a friendly against Shamrock Rovers back in 2009. Ronaldo and all.

namloc1980 · 18-05-2014 3:05pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Real Madrid played their 1st team in a friendly against Shamrock Rovers back in 2009. Ronaldo and all.

Was there 90k at it? Building a stadium on the basis of a friendly game is just ludicrous. Suggesting 90k would go to such games in cork is beyond ludicrous.

AugustusMinimus · 18-05-2014 3:10pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Was there 90k at it? Building a stadium on the basis of a friendly game is just ludicrous. Suggesting 90k would go to such games in cork is beyond ludicrous.

Of course not.

Tallaght Stadium only holds 6,000.

Do you really believe you wouldn't get 90,000 for a game anywhere in Ireland if Man United or Liverpool played their first team ? Honestly ?

Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

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