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*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2015*

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    #782
    Dawn96
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Dawn96


    LauraaWhelann wrote: »
    No, postgrad students (those who have done an undergraduate degree) do the GAMSAT.

    Mature students are people over the age of 23 who have no yet completed a third level course. They also sit the HPAT.
    So could you assume that mature students do better? Or are they usually pretty much the same as 6th years?


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    #783
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    LauraaWhelann wrote: »
    No, postgrad students (those who have done an undergraduate degree) do the GAMSAT.

    Mature students are people over the age of 23 who have no yet completed a third level course. They also sit the HPAT.

    To be precise: a mature student is one 23 or over who hasn't completed an NFQ Level 8 degree or above. You can still be classed as a mature student if you have an ordinary Level 7 degree.
    Dawn96 wrote: »
    So could you assume that mature students do better? Or are they usually pretty much the same as 6th years?

    Well ultimately the HPAT is supposed to be an aptitude test as opposed to a test of knowledge. I think you could argue that 6th years have a slight advantage in certain areas and mature students others; but in general it's pretty even.


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    #784
    Nocofee
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Nocofee


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/medical-entry-system-failing-patients-and-graduates-320044.html @dalta6billion can we get that guy involved?


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    #785
    Gallagher1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭Gallagher1


    Nocofee wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/medical-entry-system-failing-patients-and-graduates-320044.html @dalta6billion can we get that guy involved?

    Regarding entry to Medicine,what that Consultant says is utter nonsense. You cant just lower medicine points to "lets say 550" while removing the HPAT at the same time. Well you can, if you make an extra 600-700 spots available in the medical schools but I don't see that happening! Points are based simply on supply and demand and medicine is the most competitive course to get into in the country so the entry requirements are something we all just have to live with (I'm a repeat, I know too well.). Removing HPAT would be a nightmare by the way, points would go straight back to the 600+ point days and THAT was an unfair system.

    Also he says "this other bizarre psychology testing (HPAT) does not seem to have yielded the kind of doctors that we actually need." HPAT was introduced in 2009, those who sat it first are either final meds or interns at the minute. How can he make that statement? Is he gonna judge Med students on their 4th med hospital rotations when they know virtually nothing about the hospital environment and are finding their feet? He also calls the HPAT the "Human Professional Aptitude Test" when in fact it is the "Health Professions Admissions Test"..need I say more? It's not a bloody "Which career suits you test". The problem of Doctors fleeing this country isnt the HPAT or LC's problem. The HPAT isnt 'failing the people of this country'; it is the state of the HSE.

    Apologies for the rant.. he clearly is just misinformed and/or is talking bs.


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    #786
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    Nocofee wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/medical-entry-system-failing-patients-and-graduates-320044.html @dalta6billion can we get that guy involved?

    I'll send him an email alright.


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    #787
    Nocofee
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Nocofee


    Gallagher1 wrote: »
    Regarding entry to Medicine,what that Consultant says is utter nonsense. You cant just lower medicine points to "lets say 550" while removing the HPAT at the same time. Well you can, if you make an extra 600-700 spots available in the medical schools but I don't see that happening! Points are based simply on supply and demand and medicine is the most competitive course to get into in the country so the entry requirements are something we all just have to live with (I'm a repeat, I know too well.). Removing HPAT would be a nightmare by the way, points would go straight back to the 600+ point days and THAT was an unfair system.

    Also he says "this other bizarre psychology testing (HPAT) does not seem to have yielded the kind of doctors that we actually need." HPAT was introduced in 2009, those who sat it first are either final meds or interns at the minute. How can he make that statement? Is he gonna judge Med students on their 4th med hospital rotations when they know virtually nothing about the hospital environment and are finding their feet? He also calls the HPAT the "Human Professional Aptitude Test" when in fact it is the "Health Professions Admissions Test"..need I say more? It's not a bloody "Which career suits you test". The problem of Doctors fleeing this country isnt the HPAT or LC's problem. The HPAT isnt 'failing the people of this country'; it is the state of the HSE.

    Apologies for the rant.. he clearly is just misinformed and/or is talking bs.

    I was just pointing out that it was a person in a high position who disagrees with the method of entry to undergraduate medicine in this country.


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    #788
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Gallagher1 wrote: »
    Regarding entry to Medicine,what that Consultant says is utter nonsense. You cant just lower medicine points to "lets say 550" while removing the HPAT at the same time. Well you can, if you make an extra 600-700 spots available in the medical schools but I don't see that happening! Points are based simply on supply and demand and medicine is the most competitive course to get into in the country so the entry requirements are something we all just have to live with (I'm a repeat, I know too well.). Removing HPAT would be a nightmare by the way, points would go straight back to the 600+ point days and THAT was an unfair system.

    Also he says "this other bizarre psychology testing (HPAT) does not seem to have yielded the kind of doctors that we actually need." HPAT was introduced in 2009, those who sat it first are either final meds or interns at the minute. How can he make that statement? Is he gonna judge Med students on their 4th med hospital rotations when they know virtually nothing about the hospital environment and are finding their feet? He also calls the HPAT the "Human Professional Aptitude Test" when in fact it is the "Health Professions Admissions Test"..need I say more? It's not a bloody "Which career suits you test". The problem of Doctors fleeing this country isnt the HPAT or LC's problem. The HPAT isnt 'failing the people of this country'; it is the state of the HSE.

    Apologies for the rant.. he clearly is just misinformed and/or is talking bs.
    In fairness, it may be the reporter who got the "Human Professional Aptitude Test" bit wrong, not him; for that matter, it's perfectly possible that she has skewed what he says a bit as well.

    For example, this is her lead-in comment:

    A leading consultant in emergency medicine has hit out at Ireland’s inability to keep medical graduates in the country, blaming a “fatuous” entry system.

    but this is what they actually quote him as saying:

    “From the very beginning, from the fatuous points system, the CAO points system, the HPAT system, right the way through to appointments as consultants it seems we have managed to fail medical student, doctors, graduates and consultants all the way through.”

    There's a pretty big difference in emphasis there.


    You're right though, the comment "this other bizarre psychology testing which does not seem to have yielded the kind of doctors that we actually need" is quite weird given the timing, and whatever about arguing for those trained in Ireland to commit to work in Ireland for a specific period (not saying I agree or disagree, it's another issue with a lot of factors involved), the idea of giving people a "discount" on points if they sign up to it is a ridiculous one.


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    #789
    Beca19
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Beca19


    spurious wrote: »
    What are these 'little helps' and why can't people going for med get them? The SEC have no idea what course anyone is applying for.

    I'm guessing he means that a lot of scholarships aren't applicable to med hopefuls or things like the NUIG performance points or creative arts points (which can give you up to 70 extra points.) Kind of sucks really.


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    #790
    Coming up for air
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Coming up for air


    Hey everyone,

    I did the leaving in 2010 and bonus maths came into play in 2012.

    Can someone please confirm these points for me

    Eng A1 = 100
    History A1 = 100
    Bio A1 = 100
    French A1 =100
    Maths (H) B3 = 85 ?
    Geography B1 = 85

    All higher level

    Total = 585

    Recalculated for medicine = 557?

    Thank you very much


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    #791
    DepoProvera
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭DepoProvera


    Coming up for air wrote: »
    Hey everyone,

    I did the leaving in 2010 and bonus maths came into play in 2012.

    Can someone please confirm these points for me

    Eng A1 = 100
    History A1 = 100
    Bio A1 = 100
    French A1 =100
    Maths (H) B3 = 85 ?
    Geography B1 = 85

    All higher level

    Total = 585

    Recalculated for medicine = 557?

    Thank you very much

    Yep! http://www2.cao.ie/otherinfo/calc_points.pdf


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    #792
    etherealfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭etherealfairy


    Right, best med course/uni for the craic/'balance'? :p


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    #793
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    etherealfairy wrote:
    Right, best med course/uni for the craic/'balance'?


    Three simple words - five year course!


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    #794
    mhf55
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭mhf55


    sleepyheadh wrote: »
    Three simple words - five year course!

    Why the 5 year?


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    #795
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    mhf55 wrote: »
    Why the 5 year?

    5 years is a long time..six is even longer!


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    #796
    mhf55
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭mhf55


    sleepyheadh wrote: »
    5 years is a long time..six is even longer!

    True haha but do you not think fhe 5 year ones would be so much more intense?


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    #797
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    mhf55 wrote: »
    True haha but do you not think fhe 5 year ones would be so much more intense?

    Not at all, the first year is a waste.. you are just delaying the work for the year.

    Best get it over with.


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    #798
    etherealfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭etherealfairy


    sleepyheadh wrote: »
    Not at all, the first year is a waste.. you are just delaying the work for the year.

    Best get it over with.

    Ahh I'm leaning towards the 6 year course right now, to get settled into college and whatnot. Don't think I'd be able for 1st med straight after the LC. It depends on the person, I guess :rolleyes:

    Any notable differences between the colleges though? Besides the content course :D


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    #799
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    etherealfairy wrote:
    Ahh I'm leaning towards the 6 year course right now, to get settled into college and whatnot. Don't think I'd be able for 1st med straight after the LC. It depends on the person, I guess

    The first semester in tcd is very managable..its just like ty - the break seemed nice then you realise it's just another year.


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    #800
    etherealfairy
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭etherealfairy


    sleepyheadh wrote: »
    The first semester in tcd is very managable..its just like ty - the break seemed nice then you realise it's just another year.

    Really?? I know a first year there right now and she said it's quite tough... Do you go out much in 1st med? Is there a good social life with extracurricular activities?


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    #801
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    People adjust to college life in different ways and at different speeds; not everyone will manage a 5 year course as easily as a 6 year... And potentially for some people a 6 year may seem overwhelming or maybe simply from a financial standpoint a bit too long.

    If you're fresh out of secondary school I would say a 6 year degree may be more beneficial. It gives you time to consolidate the fundamentals and time to experience a bit more of life before you're suddenly thrust into a career in Medicine.


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    #802
    h157
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭h157


    If you're just after doing the leaving cert I'd say six year course is the way to go. Its a really nice year after all the stress of the hpat and leaving you'll genuinely have the time of your life! Though I can understand how a five year course appeals to people who are repeating\transferring\paying fees etc - if you just want to get stuck in/save money do a five year! From what I've heard from my roommate its not an easy first year where the stuff you're doing isn't relevant to med you have to jump in straight away


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    #803
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    h157 wrote: »
    If you're just after doing the leaving cert I'd say six year course is the way to go. Its a really nice year after all the stress of the hpat and leaving you'll genuinely have the time of your life! Though I can understand how a five year course appeals to people who are repeating\transferring\paying fees etc - if you just want to get stuck in/save money do a five year! From what I've heard from my roommate its not an easy first year where the stuff you're doing isn't relevant to med you have to jump in straight away

    I you talking about the 1st year in the 5 or the 6 year course?


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    #804
    h157
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭h157


    sleepyheadh wrote: »
    I you talking about the 1st year in the 5 or the 6 year course?
    1st year of 6 year course is a doddle, 1st year of 5 year course not so much. Well in UCD anyways. Don't get me wrong the 1st year of the 5 year doesnt seem awful you can definitely go out and join twenty societies and get up to usual 1st year shenanigans but you'd have to be putting more work in than a 1st year in premed.


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    #805
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    Ive only done the 5 year course, so i suppose I'm a bit biased, but all i can say is that the first year of tcd 5 year programme is not difficult, and certainly wouldn't effect your social life in any noticeable way.

    I can't help but think that if i was in a 6 year programme at the moment id be kicking myself! An extra year and another ~10k is not worth ' having a break after the leaving'. You'll have three months after the leaving.


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    #806
    jom95
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭jom95


    First year TCD is really great craic - it gets tough around exams but it's perfectly manageable. My advice would be to only do premed if you haven't done both biology and chemistry but most people going for med will have done those anyways. The stuff you study in 1st med is way more interesting than the pre med material as well it seems. Also, still the ability to go out twice a week until the month before exams. Would highly recommend it.


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    #807
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    jom95 wrote:
    First year TCD is really great craic - it gets tough around exams but it's perfectly manageable. My advice would be to only do premed if you haven't done both biology and chemistry but most people going for med will have done those anyways. The stuff you study in 1st med is way more interesting than the pre med material as well it seems. Also, still the ability to go out twice a week until the month before exams. Would highly recommend it.


    Exactly my sentiments, said much better than i could!

    I would put a caveat on biology though. Chemistry is far more useful in med than biology


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    #808
    BBHenry
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭BBHenry


    What do people think of UCD for med? Have done a year of college in Galway and really don't like it as Im living at home, would love to get medicine in Dublin but really unsure about it due to the cost. Also med is a very tough course and would it be preferable to be close to home?


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    #809
    sleepyheadh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 582 ✭✭✭sleepyheadh


    BBHenry wrote: »
    What do people think of UCD for med? Have done a year of college in Galway and really don't like it as Im living at home, would love to get medicine in Dublin but really unsure about it due to the cost. Also med is a very tough course and would it be preferable to be close to home?

    What I would give to be able to live at home!


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    #810
    BBHenry
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭BBHenry


    sleepyheadh wrote: »
    What I would give to be able to live at home!

    What year are you in? Also really want to just go straight into first med, apparently you have to do the six year course in ucd though


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    #811
    Slow Show
    Registered Users Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭Slow Show


    Having done both pre-med and first med, first med isn't that bad really once you're willing to try keeping on top of your work on some of the nights you aren't going out/doing other fun things. Exam time is a bit hellish and you'll spend a lot of time wondering aloud with your friends why on earth you chose this course, but exam time is only like 25% of the semester and other courses have hard exams too.

    I did both and sometimes wonder whether pre-med was the right choice because you really do start to feel the extra year as you progress and of course being a burden to your parents later and later into life isn't ideal. But tbh for me it was definitely the right choice. I had a lot of growing up to do after finishing school, heck I still have a lot of growing up to do, but at least I could do the bulk of it without having to worry about the academic side of my life for a while. I think if I'd gone straight into first med there's a real possibility I would have been very overwhelmed, especially as at the start everyone makes it out to be the hardest thing in the whole world (not true), and possibly even thought that I didn't like the course and had made the wrong choice. Settling into college can be hard enough without those kinds of doubts!

    It's completely a case of different strokes for different folks, but I wouldn't dismiss pre-med right away. You'll have all your life to be working and making money, most people in Medicine are very academic and used to working quite hard, a year off from that can have many benefits.


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