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Fingal / North Dublin Transport Study

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    You'd think they would go for something like HR8, HR9 or HR8+ with a bit more ambition. Maybe there's small chance of Irish Rail getting the guts of €6 billion to complete Dart Underground AND that.

    Also a piece in the Irish Independent detailed IR's ambitions as having a second line also from the Northern line via Swords to the airport which would allow for trains coming from that line to also reach the airport directly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    This is just the same old turf war between the RPA and Irish Rail flaring up again in the national press. No doubt both PR teams are flat-out vying to influence the outcome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Whatever happened with this?

    Vardakar signals Irish Rail shake-up

    Transport Minister Leo Varadkar is to look at a restructuring of Irish Rail, after the Government decided not to look for an extension of Ireland's derogation under EU legislation dealing with rail market access. The derogation will expire on March 14 2013.

    After a Cabinet meeting, Minister Varadkar announced plans for a consultation process which will look at how best to restructure Irish Rail following the decision.

    The department said the end of the exemption meant that a separate body would have to be set up to decide on charges for access to the rail system, and how capacity should be allocated.

    "Ireland is the only country in the EU which has been allowed to retain a single operator which regulates, operates and maintains its mainline rail network," Minister Varadkar said.

    "European law supports greater competition and freer access to the rail network sector across Europe, principally in the area of freight. I would like Ireland to be well prepared to avail of any such opportunities in future," he said.

    Tuesday 13 March 2012


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Whatever happened with this?

    Vardakar signals Irish Rail shake-up

    Transport Minister Leo Varadkar is to look at a restructuring of Irish Rail, after the Government decided not to look for an extension of Ireland's derogation under EU legislation dealing with rail market access. The derogation will expire on March 14 2013.

    After a Cabinet meeting, Minister Varadkar announced plans for a consultation process which will look at how best to restructure Irish Rail following the decision.

    The department said the end of the exemption meant that a separate body would have to be set up to decide on charges for access to the rail system, and how capacity should be allocated.

    "Ireland is the only country in the EU which has been allowed to retain a single operator which regulates, operates and maintains its mainline rail network," Minister Varadkar said.

    "European law supports greater competition and freer access to the rail network sector across Europe, principally in the area of freight. I would like Ireland to be well prepared to avail of any such opportunities in future," he said.

    Tuesday 13 March 2012

    I did not think there was any viable rail freight in Ireland any more since the shut down of the fertilizer plant in Arklow.

    No beet trucks, no cattle trucks, for quite a while.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I did not think there was any viable rail freight in Ireland any more since the shut down of the fertilizer plant in Arklow.

    No beet trucks, no cattle trucks, for quite a while.

    Timber, ore and containers. Not much but it's there.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    L1011 wrote: »
    Timber, ore and containers. Not much but it's there.

    The ore is from Navan, where is the timber to/from? Containers from where to where? The Navan/Drogheda line should be opened for passenger traffic.

    It would make sense to have freight out of Dublin Port going by rail, but the tunnel has put paid to that idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,549 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Timber: Ballina & Westport - Waterford
    Containers: Ballina - Waterford & Ballina - Dublin


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,257 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    AngryLips wrote: »
    This is just the same old turf war between the RPA and Irish Rail
    Maybe the other major rail operator should stick their oar in : Bord_na_Mona_loads_near_Lanesborough_IMG_2616.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭Roryhy


    Has a route been published for the proposed link to Dublin Airport? I can't quite figure out a route that could work out at €300 million, seems cheap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    There is a meeting tomorrow about this in The Comet, Santry, organised by Noel Rock. I believe Rory O Connor, acting CEO of the RPA, will be there. I've taken the liberty of attaching a flier.
    336818.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    jd wrote: »
    There is a meeting tomorrow about this in The Comet, Santry, organised by Noel Rock. I believe Rory O Connor, acting CEO of the RPA, will be there. I've taken the liberty of attaching a flier.
    <snip>
    For the sake of posterity, is Noel Rock a member of FG? I know he campaigned as a council candidate for that party.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    What's the point -- this should have been set up before the official closing date of the consultation. Now it's just teasing people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Aren't submissions still being accepted until next Monday? I thought the transport minister said submissions would still be accepted until Monday. It does seem silly to arrange it like this in any case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    For the sake of posterity, is Noel Rock a member of FG? I know he campaigned as a council candidate for that party.
    yes he is


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    Aard wrote: »
    What's the point -- this should have been set up before the official closing date of the consultation. Now it's just teasing people.

    Dropped him a line on this and I got back
    it wasn't logistically possible to get on before 19th. Barry Kenny from Irish rail just confirmed too FYI

    Bit more at https://www.facebook.com/events/831262796896895/?pnref=story


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    Dropped into this - about 40 or so turned up. Dublin bus got a lot of criticism for reduction of services. People critical of fact BRT not running through Santry village. Someone asked could they consider a tunnel :). Looks like there will be BRT services soon enough.

    Reading between lines of what was or wasn't said, neither light or heavy metro will go ahead because of cost.

    Rory O'Connor of RPA said they could do the tunneled Luas for about 700 million and have it open by 2022. He said it could handle the required traffic and capacity could be increased at/near city centre (didn't quite hear him). He was reminded that there would be scaremongering over tunnels under the cemetery.

    Barry said they could deliver the Dart to Dublin Airport quickly. Dart Underground is one of the "do the minimum" options. Government have to make a decision soon on this.

    Noel Rock kept the meeting generally to the point - nice to have 3 spokesmen at small enough meeting like this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    When you say "heavy metro" does that encompass "heavy rail" as well -- ie a heavy rail tunnel from Glasnevin to the Airport / Swords?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    Aard wrote: »
    When you say "heavy metro" does that encompass "heavy rail" as well -- ie a heavy rail tunnel from Glasnevin to the Airport / Swords?
    Yup, That's what I mean't by the heavy metro option


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Hmm. Going by Irish Rail's recent "airport Dart" announcement in the papers, and given what you've said above -- it appears that IR know something the rest of us don't and so are canvassing for the crumbs of the Clongriffin spur.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Aard wrote: »
    Hmm. Going by Irish Rail's recent "airport Dart" announcement in the papers, and given what you've said above -- it appears that IR know something the rest of us don't and so are canvassing for the crumbs of the Clongriffin spur.

    They're throwing their influence around, that's pretty clear. The spur is perceived as "cheap and easy", and that's what Dublin usually gets. The wind could be blowing that way alright.

    Seems Dart Underground is now universally accepted as #1 key project, at least there's that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    You're right that it's good that at least DU seems to be taken as a given going forward.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    Just looking through the handout from the RPA. Nothing about the metro. I told Rory I'm refusing to call it an "optimised" metro :)
    It's just about the Luas from Cabra under Glasnevin cemetery and up the Ballymun road.
    It also mentions Luas phase 2 (Rory mentioned a future tunnel in passing) - underground from Stephen's Green to Cabra, with underground stops at Jervis and SSG.

    I think the Metro is dead, lads. Rory seemed to love this project.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    jd wrote: »
    Just looking through the handout from the RPA. Nothing about the metro. I told Rory I'm refusing to call it an "optimised" metro :)
    It's just about the Luas from Cabra under Glasnevin cemetery and up the Ballymun road.
    It also mentions Luas phase 2 (Rory mentioned a future tunnel in passing) - underground from Stephen's Green to Cabra, with underground stops at Jervis and SSG.

    I think the Metro is dead, lads. Rory seemed to love this project.

    Could you expand on the above, first I've heard about it. Any more info on that flyer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Could you expand on the above, first I've heard about it. Any more info on that flyer?

    Scanned this for ye.
    337006.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    jd wrote: »
    Scanned this for ye.

    Legend!

    I was just thinking recently, its a shame that the Broadstone alignment - Harcourt alignment aren't a single segragated line joined under the city. This project proposes exactly that. Wow, interesting.

    Am I a sucker for empty promises or what :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    My take on what may happen

    1. BRT (omni shopping centre secedes from the republic...joking)
    2. Dart extension to Airport

    Then DU + Luas to Swords 2022-2023

    Also there is scope to extend Luas from Broombridge into Finglas - asked Rory about this and it's possible too


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    jd wrote: »
    Just looking through the handout from the RPA. Nothing about the metro. I told Rory I'm refusing to call it an "optimised" metro :)
    It's just about the Luas from Cabra under Glasnevin cemetery and up the Ballymun road.
    It also mentions Luas phase 2 (Rory mentioned a future tunnel in passing) - underground from Stephen's Green to Cabra, with underground stops at Jervis and SSG.

    I think the Metro is dead, lads. Rory seemed to love this project.

    For the benefit of the rest of us on the board, who is 'Rory'?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭jd


    For the benefit of the rest of us on the board, who is 'Rory'?
    Pardon me
    Rory O Connor, acting CEO of the RPA


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    jd wrote: »
    Just looking through the handout from the RPA. Nothing about the metro. I told Rory I'm refusing to call it an "optimised" metro :)
    It's just about the Luas from Cabra under Glasnevin cemetery and up the Ballymun road.
    It also mentions Luas phase 2 (Rory mentioned a future tunnel in passing) - underground from Stephen's Green to Cabra, with underground stops at Jervis and SSG.

    I think the Metro is dead, lads. Rory seemed to love this project.
    Most of the BRT proposals seemed to be very lacking. Offering 3 poor BRT options without accurate estimated costs, a mythical "no environmental or planning etc. impact" and an asymmetrical appraisal of the BRT options compared to say LRT doesn't show AECOM in a very good or competent light and also smells of govt "suggestions", looking for the right answer.

    Why should anyone accept this spoonfed crap for what the best options are from the appraisal when the appraisal itself has methodological issues and indeed blatant leaps of logic? It's not just about the airport, the people of Swords and in the north of Dublin city deserve better, and the taxpayer and the wider Dublin region also deserves better than pursuing back-of-envelope BRT plans that conflict with existing services and indeed with the future Swords Swiftway. Not to mention, why not provide traffic priority for Dublin Bus services in general and be done with it? I don't believe €200 million will get anything more than bendi-buses, ticketing machines and kerb access facilitated, and some new lines painted on a road new bus lanes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,257 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    jd wrote: »
    Rory O'Connor of RPA said they could do the tunneled Luas for about 700 million
    What do you mean by this?


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