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19-02-2012, 23:33   #256
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Ok so, it's not on par so not a fair comparison. The mahon tribunal was due out for release in 2007 but it was defered due to the then election.
Five years on there were numerous release dates but it keeps getting defered. How much money was spent throughout the past five years just sitting on that? 5 million? 10 million? More? How much longer are they going to hang onto it? Another 5 years? How much more millions will be spent?

This thread has shown me that fraud is fraud no matter what. Now, correct me if I'm wrong because that tribunal started god knows when probably when I was a teenager with no political interest but isn't the tribunal a tribunal to look into fraudulent expenses by politicians?

One group of fraudsters is protected, the rest have to abide by the laws of the land.

People here are all too happy to rat on a neighbour suspected of fraud no matter how small yet sit idly back and allow the mahon tribunal to continue.
In fairness, what's the penalty for getting caught? A tenner a week of the dole if you're entitled to it? Imprisonment is extremely rare, bit like tax fraud really.
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19-02-2012, 23:42   #257
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This is like something of what would of happened in East Germany.
You have described only that some people have been reported for committing an act of fraud, by those of us who must pay for their fraud. This is a far cry from reporting people who hold political beliefs that are contrary to government policy. It is not even slightly like the situation that existed in East Germany.

The vast majority of crimes are detected because somebody reports them. Why should social welfare fraud be any different?


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19-02-2012, 23:53   #258
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Dna evidence proved Maggie did it
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20-02-2012, 12:04   #259
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But if it's 300m per annum than let me ask - how exactly is this in anyway a priority given the state's total deficit? This doesn't matter. Your 'man down the road' gaming the system is not the major issue affecting the fortunes of the country - though it is expedient for politicians to make you believe that he is.
Look after the pennies, and the pounds will look after themselves.

Not reporting fraud normalises it, getting rid of it's status as taboo, which can't be a good thing.

IMO, the public service should always be looking to improve cost efficiency at all times.
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20-02-2012, 17:39   #260
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This thread has shown me that fraud is fraud no matter what.
It has?
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People here are all too happy to rat on a neighbour suspected of fraud no matter how small yet sit idly back and allow the mahon tribunal to continue.
Clearly it hasn't.
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20-02-2012, 19:08   #261
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PPARS works fine now
After they threw €200m at it. Wasn't it supposed to cost NINE million?

Ah.......public sector "efficiency" at its best.
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20-02-2012, 19:09   #262
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Are you saying that just because one part of the public service had a failed IT project, no other part of the public service should be trusted to implement other IT projects?
Yes.

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There are lots of examples of successful IT projects in the public service, for example, the Revenue ROS and CONTAX systems. Naturally enough, nobody ever hears about the successes.
At what cost? To the taxpayer?
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20-02-2012, 19:11   #263
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Is that good or bad? How much should it cost to run per year?


I'm getting the impression in this thread that people can't construct a good argument against reporting social welfare fraud, so are constructing (bad) arguments against other unrelated stuff instead.
Yeah, I suppose we have it for a song at €120 grand a WEEK!
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20-02-2012, 19:12   #264
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I dont condone fraud but by and large most people on welfare wheter they are defrauding it or not are not massivly well off. There are people on welfare who have had their esb cut off and for all anyone knows a lot of the reported fraud is someone doing the odd nixer. These people are often on the breadline and some people see fit to report them. The major cause of irish anger has been directed at the lowest in society. After having our children raped by the church, our future deystroyed by the banks and politicians amongst the highest paid in europe people had the most problem with petty fraud. I dont have a problem with people reporting fraud but I do when they have a problem with this over the majority of crap that this country has stomached.
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20-02-2012, 19:15   #265
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Yes.
Well. I wasn't expecting that answer. Bizarre.

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At what cost? To the taxpayer?
Why do you ask? You've already decided based on one failure that the PS shouldn't implement any further IT projects.
Its back to pencil and paper for our public administration I'm afraid
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20-02-2012, 19:47   #266
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It is the duty of every citizen to report crime especially when we are all paying for it.
Indeed and the size of the bill should prioritise the immediacy of our response. Recently quite a few privileged criminals have landed some big bills on our laps. But since they seem beyond punishment, small-fry really don't interest me at all.
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20-02-2012, 19:48   #267
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Well. I wasn't expecting that answer. Bizarre.


Why do you ask? You've already decided based on one failure that the PS shouldn't implement any further IT projects.
Its back to pencil and paper for our public administration I'm afraid
The same way as it was back to pencil and paper to vote after they wasted, and continue to waste countless millions on the e-voting machines!
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20-02-2012, 19:49   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tayto lover View Post
It is the duty of every citizen to report crime especially when we are all paying for it.
Indeed and the size of the bill should prioritise the immediacy of our response. Recently quite a few privileged criminals have landed some big bills on our laps. But since they seem beyond punishment, small-fry really don't interest me at all.
You said it better than I ever could.
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20-02-2012, 20:05   #269
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The same way as it was back to pencil and paper to vote after they wasted, and continue to waste countless millions on the e-voting machines!
Not quite sure what point you're attempting to make here.
"We had a failed voting machine project therefore ....."?
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20-02-2012, 20:29   #270
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Not quite sure what point you're attempting to make here.
"We had a failed voting machine project therefore ....."?
Just another example of wastage of OUR money in public life/services.

I didn't hear of anyone being held to account for either of these screwup's.

The same way that no social welfare officer will be held accountable for paying out more money to people than they were entitled to.

The same way nobody in public life is ever accountable.

But hey, let's just get the message out there that everyone on welfare is a scrounger/fraudster and encourage people to watch everything their neighbours are doing/spending and report them if we THINK they have it too easy.

This is Ireland, my country, in 2012.
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